Current Events > Trump administration will not allow trans people to serve in military

(+) Yeah! (+)

Caution999 posted...

Sayoria posted...

Caution999 posted...

I love how the hardcore leftists believe Trump just enacts these things out of bigotry. No, his administration sat down, looked at the statistics, looked at the numbers, and made an educated decision.

But everyone gets so riled up from their emotions, and the media plays on this. Emotions are what drives the media. It drives their entire industry. Emotions are paying their bills.

Going without their treatment is a serious concern. The medical costs are a concern. It's not an easy decision, but it's one that the President has to have the balls to make.

I'm sure that Andrew Johnson's people sat down and made educated decisions back then about slavery.

There's a revoking of an American privilege at hand here.

And you'd be the first in line to blame Trump if Transgendered soldiers were stuck somewhere without access to their pills/treatment. You'd be the first to blame him if they committed suicide. You're a never-Trumper. No matter what he does you're going to complain.

Do you even see my posts on this board? I take realistic stances in the progression of our rights as human beings. I'm not a "never-trumper" ..... I'm pro-rights. This is revoking rights. What don't you understand?

I'm done here. It's clear that most of you here are truly "never-for-transpeople-ers" .... We will always be second....third class citizens to you all so why bother arguing with it.
---

Sayoria posted...

Do you even see my posts on this board? I take realistic stances in the progression of our rights as human beings. I'm not a "never-trumper" ..... I'm pro-rights. This is revoking rights. What don't you understand?

you really would be the first to bitch about it though
---

CEs_EFG posted...

Sayoria posted...

You guys are imbeciles. Seriously, this is f***ed up.

you didn't answer the question dude/dudette

Sayoria posted...

so how are you trans without the surgery back in day? do you just tell people you were a girl/guy?

You knew it to yourself. It is a brain-thing. Transgender comes from the core of the brain, not through surgery. Surgery aids, but it isn't who we are.

Done.
---

k darkfire posted...

This is a great move tbh. Trans folk shouldnt be serving as they cause confusion and soak up resources. Why should we let a female that IDs as a man join? That's insane. kick'em all out and bar them from ever joining again-thats my logic.

I've never been more proud to be America. MAGA!

Could your trolling actually be more obvious?
---

Sayoria posted...

You knew it to yourself. It is a brain-thing. Transgender comes from the core of the brain, not through surgery. Surgery aids, but it isn't who we are.

Done.

so Trump just banned people who have a "brain-thing" to make themselves believe they are the opposite gender.

I don't see the problem here, a lot of this was because military healthcare was going to pay for the surgery, treatment, and hormones for transgenders. That's the whole point, wait till you get out or don't join at all.
---

tennisdude818 posted...

Gender dysphoria is a mental condition that is associated with a high suicide rate. You think it's a good idea to invite people with this problem into the most stressful situation possible?

Yup. Military has a high suicide rate so that probably wouldn't be the best fit for another type of people that have a high suicide rate.
---

The military big wigs are the ones who recommended it. We're not at war, no one is being drafted. They can be picky with who they want. And who they want are people who have a good head on their shoulders, know their place and can take orders. People who can't even come to grips with the reality of what sex they were born as says a lot about the mental health of that person. I'm willing to bet that has more to do with it than potential costs.
---

Anyway, this is disgusting, but we just have to tack it to the list of shit we fix in 2020. I'm sure we'll find out what new Trump fuckup this is supposed to distract us from sometime in the next day or so.
---

I don't see any reason to disallow well adjusted transgender people who aren't interested in transitioning while they are serving. :/ That just seems like discrimination. I can understand if they are currently transitioning or already transitioned and need upkeep for that, that could lead to complications. It puts them into a gray area in the military and I can understand them being disallowed for that reason.

But we're not sure how this will exactly be enacted in practice. :u It might only apply to transitioning/transitioned people.
---

EternalDivide posted...

The military big wigs are the ones who recommended it. We're not at war, no one is being drafted. They can be picky with who they want. And who they want are people who have a good head on their shoulders, know their place and can take orders. People who can't even come to grips with the reality of what sex they were born as says a lot about the mental health of that person. I'm willing to bet that has more to do with it than potential costs.

this tbh an active military during peacetime is super weird to me
---

thelovefist posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Cool. 99% of the people on earth do this to excuse their behavior. This way of arguing drove me insane. I never would have gone looking for it so I'm glad you dropped it on my lap.
---

Antifar posted...

gatorsPENSbucs posted...

So how does this work, male to female goes with the females and female to male goes with males?

It means they can't serve, period.

Well, yah, I got that. Im asking if they were allowed. Seems like safety would be a huge issue.
---

CEs_EFG posted...

Sayoria posted...

You knew it to yourself. It is a brain-thing. Transgender comes from the core of the brain, not through surgery. Surgery aids, but it isn't who we are.

Done.

so Trump just banned people who have a "brain-thing" to make themselves believe they are the opposite gender.

I don't see the problem here, a lot of this was because military healthcare was going to pay for the surgery, treatment, and hormones for transgenders. That's the whole point, wait till you get out or don't join at all.

Somewhere between 2.4 and 8.4 million dollars for the entirety of the military. Out of a budget of over 600 billion dollars. Just get the fuck out of here.

(To be even more specific, that's maximum 8.4 million dollars out of a 49.3 billion dollar health care budget for the military)
---

EternalDivide posted...

The military big wigs are the ones who recommended it. We're not at war, no one is being drafted. They can be picky with who they want.

unless I missed something, wasn't it military big wigs that were pushing the whole Trans in Military acceptance thing not even 6 months ago?
---

And let's end the discussion with DAT VICTIM CARD.

It really is a shame that this place can't be more civil. Ah, well.
---

dont transgenders already have a 30% suicide rate? on top of everything else it seems like that would be a bad idea to put them into another stressful part of their life while giving them a gun at the same time.
---

EternalDivide posted...

I'm willing to bet that has more to do with it than potential costs.

CEs_EFG posted...

this was because military healthcare was going to pay for the surgery, treatment, and hormones for transgenders.

pick one
---

Caution999 posted...

And let's end the discussion with DAT VICTIM CARD.

It really is a shame that this place can't be more civil. Ah, well.

But but but I thought you trumpanzees hated political correctness!
---

KTG2 posted...

Somewhere between 2.4 and 8.4 million dollars for the entirety of the military. Out of a budget of over 600 billion dollars. Just get the f*** out of here.

Military spending consumes over half of all federal discretionary spending: $712 billion out of $1,277 billion in 2011 discretionary outlays. Defense analyst Todd Harrison calculates that military health spending is about 9.5 percent of the base defense budget: $52.5 billion out of the $559 billion that the Defense Department requested for fiscal year 2012.
---

KTG2 posted...

(To be even more specific, that's maximum 8.4 million dollars out of a 49.3 billion dollar health care budget for the military)

CEs_EFG posted...

military health spending is about 9.5 percent of the base defense budget: $52.5 billion out of the $559 billion that the Defense Department requested for fiscal year 2012.

---

AlternativeFAQS posted...

SSJ-JohnLennon posted...

AlternativeFAQS posted...

I could have a negative iq and the average iq in this topic would still go up

Do you have anything worth while to add to the discussion?

There's no point with you people

Is that seriously the best you can come up with?

SSJ-JohnLennon posted...

AlternativeFAQS posted...

SSJ-JohnLennon posted...

AlternativeFAQS posted...

I could have a negative iq and the average iq in this topic would still go up

Do you have anything worth while to add to the discussion?

There's no point with you people

Is that seriously the best you can come up with?

If Mr Lightbulb was capable of making intelligent contributions, he would.
---

For the cost of one F-35 we could pay for ops for all transgenders in the military for the next 20 years, I'm sure money is the reason why we should discriminate tho
---

CEs_EFG posted...

KTG2 posted...

Somewhere between 2.4 and 8.4 million dollars for the entirety of the military. Out of a budget of over 600 billion dollars. Just get the f*** out of here.

Military spending consumes over half of all federal discretionary spending: $712 billion out of $1,277 billion in 2011 discretionary outlays. Defense analyst Todd Harrison calculates that military health spending is about 9.5 percent of the base defense budget: $52.5 billion out of the $559 billion that the Defense Department requested for fiscal year 2012.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1530.html

And here's the 2016 DoD commissioned study that quotes the exact numbers I just listed and says the transgendered people would have an utterly negligible impact on the military budget. 2.4-8.4 million dollars to deal with every single transgendered person in the military. Meanwhile, people who have never served (including the draft dodger in chief) want to try to keep people out who want to serve their country.

Also, my numbers are 4 years more current than yours, you enormous fucking dipshit. Reading isn't the trumpanzee strong suit though.

Hi to the inevitable mod that blasts me because this guy got his fee fees hurt
---

Caution999 posted...

Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

Idk about medical costs unless the military would have to pay for hormone treatment but he's not exactly wrong about how it would cause a ton of issues. Sadly I don't think there's an easy answer.

This isn't gonna fly in today's snowflake society. Everything has to be fair and even steven!!!!!


Someone remind these snowflakes that life isn't fair.

http://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Is-ought.html
---

CircleOfManias posted...

Caution999 posted...

Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

Idk about medical costs unless the military would have to pay for hormone treatment but he's not exactly wrong about how it would cause a ton of issues. Sadly I don't think there's an easy answer.

This isn't gonna fly in today's snowflake society. Everything has to be fair and even steven!!!!!


Someone remind these snowflakes that life isn't fair.

http://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Is-ought.html

Except it wasn't a fallacy.

CircleOfManias posted...

Caution999 posted...

Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

Idk about medical costs unless the military would have to pay for hormone treatment but he's not exactly wrong about how it would cause a ton of issues. Sadly I don't think there's an easy answer.

This isn't gonna fly in today's snowflake society. Everything has to be fair and even steven!!!!!


Someone remind these snowflakes that life isn't fair.

http://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Is-ought.html

Man, give LibbyFAQs the short abridged version so that he can understand this.
---

KTG2 posted...

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1530.html

And here's the 2016 DoD commissioned study that quotes the exact numbers I just listed and says the transgendered people would have an utterly negligible impact on the military budget. 2.4-8.4 million dollars to deal with every single transgendered person in the military. Meanwhile, people who have never served (including the draft dodger in chief) want to try to keep people out who want to serve their country.

and I'm talking about overall how the military health care budget is pissing off DoD, this isn't about "how much it would cost for trans to get the snip" this is how the whole health care system overall is about to go down under .

also your article is a lot of whats and ifs btw....

There Are an Estimated 1,320–6,630 Transgender Service Members in the Active Component, but Not All Will Seek Gender Transition–Related Treatment

that's a pretty big gap dude, your article is not very reliable
---

If they were allowed in the military then it would cause a very big issue with the ones enlisted. Got to remember how stereotypical and old fashioned the military is run and a lot of its enlisted. Transgender would be spending more time causing issues within the military for more rights than what's already going down. The first issue is to work on getting society to accept them then work on military eligibility.
---

I can't handle all this winning!


Fuck the President
---

but redhats told me that trump was an ally and lgbt individuals would have nothing to fear!
---

Only a subset will seek gender transition–related treatment. Estimates derived from survey data and private health insurance claims data indicate that, each year, between 29 and 129 service members in the active component will seek transition-related care that could disrupt their ability to deploy.


I seriously doubt that number will be that low, considering the fact that people will join just to have the surgery, a long with people just flat out not wanting to deploy.

This adding the overall psychological , constant medical treatment of a transgender person after surgery. This doesn't seem to be worth it

Put it this way lets say 129 peeps get the surgery. That's 129 soldiers that got taken out of deployment for at least a year. Not even just out of deployment but out of commission for at least 6 months. That's your tax money paying someone's paycheck for 6 months while they just sit there recovering. While this person is not deploying anytime soon specially on a 4 year contract
---

Trump is merely listening to what the leaders of the military are telling him. They believe it to be a distraction as well as cost incurring. It's not even a required medical treatment to be healthy and live.

If they are finding it creates a distraction among other things, Trump should listen to them which is what he did.
---

hockeybub89 posted...

I can't handle all this winning!


Fuck the President

So you honestly believe Trump is a Disney movie villain that just does things for the sake of being evil?
---

the military isnt the place for social experiments
---

Antifar posted...

To hear one WH staffer put it, the rationale is not medical, nor financial. It's about the fucking midterms

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/890202683721863168

I like how this got ignored twice because it doesn't fit the conservatroll narrative.
---

A trans is more fit to be in the military than Trump is fit to be president.

BLAKUboy posted...

I like how this got ignored twice because it doesn't fit the conservatroll narrative.

Nope, I said I don't care about the rationale I just like that i went through
---

mario2000 posted...

but redhats told me that trump was an ally and lgbt individuals would have nothing to fear!

What do they have to fear?

Since when is it a right to serve in the military? There's tons of things that can disqualify people from service that would have cheaper medical consequences than allowing transgendered to serve.

Would you support increasing the military's budget to offset the cost? didn't think so.
---

Mal_Fet posted...

Would you support increasing the military's budget to offset the cost?

lol

Mal_Fet posted...

Since when is it a right to serve in the military?

lmao
---

Caution999 posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I can't handle all this winning!


Fuck the President

So you honestly believe Trump is a Disney movie villain that just does things for the sake of being evil?

No, I think he is a fucking idiot that does stupid things because he has no idea what he is doing.

If we truly care about military spending, then banning trans people does nothing. It's a drop in the bucket.
---

Good. The military is not a social experiment. There is no expectation of equality or fairness.
---

ThePrinceFish posted...

Good. The military is not a social experiment. There is no expectation of equality or fairness.

Should we bring back Don't Ask Don't Tell and also kick women out then?
---

There's two other reasons which we went over in this very topic.
---

Caution999 posted...

There's two other reasons which we went over in this very topic.

There are no good reasons. This is a load of horseshit.
---

hockeybub89 posted...

No, I think he is a fucking idiot that does stupid things because he has no idea what he is doing.

If we truly care about military spending, then banning trans people does nothing. It's a drop in the bucket.

How about the 40% likelihood of suicide in the trans community that is not reduced by any form of GRS?

Wouldn't that be a cause for concern for the military
---

And this coward dodge the draft.
---

CEs_EFG posted...

Nope, I said I don't care about the rationale I just like that i went through

Funny, because you seem to be bouncing between a few different reasons and rationale in an attempt to justify it.

All while making assumptions that others numbers are wrong and that things will happen "just because", which is such a shitty reason that it actively makes my head hurt
---

hockeybub89 posted...

Caution999 posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I can't handle all this winning!


Fuck the President

So you honestly believe Trump is a Disney movie villain that just does things for the sake of being evil?

No, I think he is a fucking idiot that does stupid things because he has no idea what he is doing.

If we truly care about military spending, then banning trans people does nothing. It's a drop in the bucket.

He's literally listening to the military leaders. Turns out, trans in the military was never enacted in the first place and has only been under review.

The leaders deem it a distraction and Trump listens.

This is a huge nothing burger of the day
---