Current Events > Libertarian builds $550 staircase for park after city said it would cost $150000

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CanuckCowboy 07/21/17 9:41:54 AM #101:	ChromaticAngel posted... DirkDiggles posted... CruelBuffalo posted... You have to pay an engineer to build it to code. No you don't. You just have to get proper permits and a building inspector to sign off on the work. Well you do, but the "code" for a half flight of stairs in the middle of nowhere is not something you need to hire a high level architect for. You can probably just look up the codes online yourself and sketch it manually. Or you know... Hire any decent ticketed carpenter who would've learned it second year. --- "I got a rollatruc, look." <cite>CanuckCowboy posted [p:883324972] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>ChromaticAngel posted...</cite> <quote><cite>DirkDiggles posted...</cite> <quote><cite>CruelBuffalo posted...</cite> <quote>You have to pay an engineer to build it to code.</quote> No you don't. You just have to get proper permits and a building inspector to sign off on the work.</quote> Well you do, but the "code" for a half flight of stairs in the middle of nowhere is not something you need to hire a high level architect for. You can probably just look up the codes online yourself and sketch it manually.</quote> Or you know... Hire any decent ticketed carpenter who would've learned it second year.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
emblem boy 07/21/17 10:42:27 AM #102:	ImTheMacheteGuy posted... The detail scrutinizers are missing the point of what this story is really aboot. We aren't. The thing is you shouldn't use an extreme example and scenario just to make your viewpoint look better. --- Posted with GameRaven 3.2.1 <cite>emblem boy posted [p:883327578] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote>The detail scrutinizers are missing the point of what this story is really aboot.</quote> We aren't. The thing is you shouldn't use an extreme example and scenario just to make your viewpoint look better.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LightHawKnight 07/21/17 10:42:41 AM #103:	Sativa_Rose posted... fire_bolt posted... As someone who has done this type of work before: - Supports in the center of the stairs but none at the edges - Hand rail only on one side - Wood does not look treated, meaning it is not going to hold up long in weather - Stair foundation is not sunk into ground properly - Bottom casting left up post-work Like, it's nice that he did this but its shoddy work. Realistically, I could build it right for around $1000 and it'd last decades. This is a super simple job that takes about 2 days work plus time for the concrete to dry. This is the issue here. The city was being incredibly unbelievably dumb with its $50k estimates. In times of incredible need, citizens will step up and take matters into their own hands. So I don't have any personal issue with the guy. The city can easy afford to tear this thing down and put up a concrete thing like you're suggesting for a small amount, way smaller than the $50k.. Technically the city hires out for the estimates, they don't make them themselves, and the need really wasn't great. This so called "path" is just a shortcut. There is a perfectly reasonable way down, just a bit further along. --- The Official Odin of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board. "You know how confusing the whole good-evil concept is for me." <cite>LightHawKnight posted [p:883327594] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote><cite>fire_bolt posted...</cite> <quote>As someone who has done this type of work before: - Supports in the center of the stairs but none at the edges - Hand rail only on one side - Wood does not look treated, meaning it is not going to hold up long in weather - Stair foundation is not sunk into ground properly - Bottom casting left up post-work Like, it's nice that he did this but its shoddy work. Realistically, I could build it right for around $1000 and it'd last decades. This is a super simple job that takes about 2 days work plus time for the concrete to dry.</quote> This is the issue here. The city was being incredibly unbelievably dumb with its $50k estimates. In times of incredible need, citizens will step up and take matters into their own hands. So I don't have any personal issue with the guy. The city can easy afford to tear this thing down and put up a concrete thing like you're suggesting for a small amount, way smaller than the $50k..</quote> Technically the city hires out for the estimates, they don't make them themselves, and the need really wasn't great. This so called "path" is just a shortcut. There is a perfectly reasonable way down, just a bit further along.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
weapon_d00d816 07/21/17 11:03:26 AM #104:	pinky0926 posted... He sounds well meaning and sounds like he did a decent job, but obviously you can't just have public spaces being altered by whichever well meaning citizen decides to do a DIY project. Depends on what it's for. This was to improve safety after the government wasn't going to do anything about it. --- SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SIG SlG <cite>weapon_d00d816 posted [p:883328520] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>pinky0926 posted...</cite> <quote>He sounds well meaning and sounds like he did a decent job, but obviously you can't just have public spaces being altered by whichever well meaning citizen decides to do a DIY project.</quote> Depends on what it's for. This was to improve safety after the government wasn't going to do anything about it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
voldothegr8 07/21/17 11:07:33 AM #105:	$150,000 lol. That's the "we don't want to build it and don't care about it" price. --- Oda break tracker 2017- 5 (2) Super Mario Maker Profile: 1237-0000-0073-02FE <cite>voldothegr8 posted [p:883328712] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote>$150,000 lol. That's the "we don't want to build it and don't care about it" price.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 07/21/17 11:21:05 AM #106:	clearaflagrantj posted... The corporations because there wouldn't be any regulations in place, so they'd take even more of our money. Because, as we all know, Walmart kicks down your door at 3AM, shoots your dog, and locks you in a cage, because you bought your toilet paper at Aldi instead. Interacting with a corporation is voluntary. Interacting with government is not. The Admiral posted... Keep in mind that most of that $150,000 cost is due to required union labor, which left-wing parties like the Democrats bend over to weave into legislation in exchange for votes. The rest of the difference is mandatory environment impact surveys and other regulatory nonsense. This. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:883329341] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>clearaflagrantj posted...</cite> <quote>The corporations because there wouldn't be any regulations in place, so they'd take even more of our money.</quote> Because, as we all know, Walmart kicks down your door at 3AM, shoots your dog, and locks you in a cage, because you bought your toilet paper at Aldi instead. Interacting with a corporation is voluntary. Interacting with government is not. <cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>Keep in mind that most of that $150,000 cost is due to required union labor, which left-wing parties like the Democrats bend over to weave into legislation in exchange for votes. The rest of the difference is mandatory environment impact surveys and other regulatory nonsense.</quote> This.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 07/21/17 11:24:28 AM #107:	I'll read this whole thread and respond, but tactical urbanism is great in general. https://www.citylab.com/design/2012/03/guide-tactical-urbanism/1387/ --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:883329496] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote>I'll read this whole thread and respond, but tactical urbanism is great in general. https://www.citylab.com/design/2012/03/guide-tactical-urbanism/1387/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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TheMikh 07/21/17 11:30:07 AM #109:	clearaflagrantj posted... BallerXRosetta- posted... Without government, who would steal our money? The corporations because there wouldn't be any regulations in place, so they'd take even more of our money. To the contrary, regulations make it far more complicated and expensive for small businesses to compete with corporations. Where, of course, free competition leads to lower prices. --- http://i.imgur.com/A0TAfek.png <cite>TheMikh posted [p:883329780] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>clearaflagrantj posted...</cite> <quote><cite>BallerXRosetta- posted...</cite> <quote>Without government, who would steal our money?</quote> The corporations because there wouldn't be any regulations in place, so they'd take even more of our money.</quote> To the contrary, regulations make it far more complicated and expensive for small businesses to compete with corporations. Where, of course, free competition leads to lower prices.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Trigg3rH4ppy 07/21/17 11:31:51 AM #111:	ITT:. A bunch of people who have no idea what they're talking about, talking about how much money a project they have never seen should cost. Now I'm not saying the 65k price is reasonable, but I only know what it actually costs to build the staircase and have no clue what all the red tape would cost --- ~A little nonsense, now and then, is relished by the wisest men ~ TWSSted since~ 3/27/12 https://i.imgur.com/zlaENmx.png <cite>Trigg3rH4ppy posted [p:883329863] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote>ITT:. A bunch of people who have no idea what they're talking about, talking about how much money a project they have never seen should cost. Now I'm not saying the 65k price is reasonable, but I only know what it actually costs to build the staircase and have no clue what all the red tape would cost</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CruelBuffalo 07/21/17 11:32:24 AM #112:	CanuckCowboy posted... ChromaticAngel posted... DirkDiggles posted... CruelBuffalo posted... You have to pay an engineer to build it to code. No you don't. You just have to get proper permits and a building inspector to sign off on the work. Well you do, but the "code" for a half flight of stairs in the middle of nowhere is not something you need to hire a high level architect for. You can probably just look up the codes online yourself and sketch it manually. Or you know... Hire any decent ticketed carpenter who would've learned it second year. Except the designs need to be with the plan checkers that work for the city government <cite>CruelBuffalo posted [p:883329897] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>CanuckCowboy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ChromaticAngel posted...</cite> <quote><cite>DirkDiggles posted...</cite> <quote><cite>CruelBuffalo posted...</cite> <quote>You have to pay an engineer to build it to code.</quote> No you don't. You just have to get proper permits and a building inspector to sign off on the work.</quote> Well you do, but the "code" for a half flight of stairs in the middle of nowhere is not something you need to hire a high level architect for. You can probably just look up the codes online yourself and sketch it manually.</quote> Or you know... Hire any decent ticketed carpenter who would've learned it second year.</quote> Except the designs need to be with the plan checkers that work for the city government</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CruelBuffalo 07/21/17 11:33:26 AM #113:	https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire GOSH. Government nannies. Let people do what they want with their property. <cite>CruelBuffalo posted [p:883329944] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire GOSH. Government nannies. Let people do what they want with their property.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 07/21/17 11:37:24 AM #114:	CruelBuffalo posted... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire GOSH. Government nannies. Let people do what they want with their property. why do otherwise reasonable people do this kinda shit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire lol fuckin government terrorists obviously cant be trusted same logic --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:883330154] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>CruelBuffalo posted...</cite> <quote>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire GOSH. Government nannies. Let people do what they want with their property.</quote> why do otherwise reasonable people do this kinda shit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire lol fuckin government terrorists obviously cant be trusted same logic</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ImTheMacheteGuy 07/21/17 12:44:19 PM #116:	emblem boy posted... ImTheMacheteGuy posted... The detail scrutinizers are missing the point of what this story is really aboot. We aren't. The thing is you shouldn't use an extreme example and scenario just to make your viewpoint look better. I only posted that because I couldn't think of anything else to say where I could use the term "aboot" and I wanted to do so. That was the best I could come up with, bud. Sorey if it wasn't insightful. --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:883333703] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>emblem boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted...</cite> <quote>The detail scrutinizers are missing the point of what this story is really aboot.</quote> We aren't. The thing is you shouldn't use an extreme example and scenario just to make your viewpoint look better.</quote> I only posted that because I couldn't think of anything else to say where I could use the term "aboot" and I wanted to do so. That was the best I could come up with, bud. Sorey if it wasn't insightful.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 07/21/17 12:50:18 PM #117:	CruelBuffalo posted... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire GOSH. Government nannies. Let people do what they want with their property. What does that prove? It was already illegal to have multiple trailers in the basement, and building codes were flagrantly ignored anyway. Much like Grenfell, while criminal dumbassery charges for the owner/manager/etc. are fully appropriate, it's your own damn fault for staying in an obvious deathtrap. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:883334030] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>CruelBuffalo posted...</cite> <quote>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire GOSH. Government nannies. Let people do what they want with their property.</quote> What does that prove? It was already illegal to have multiple trailers in the basement, and building codes were flagrantly ignored anyway. Much like Grenfell, while criminal dumbassery charges for the owner/manager/etc. are fully appropriate, it's your own damn fault for staying in an obvious deathtrap.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
iPhone_7 07/21/17 12:58:25 PM #118:	Maybe the estimate was for a larger remodeling than what this man did? Like maybe a concrete staircase, smaller steps, and a metal hand rail. It looks a bit odd as a wooden staircase leading directly to a guard rail. Just sayin --- Sig User Logic http://i.imgur.com/lA5fm7w.jpg <cite>iPhone_7 posted [p:883334510] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote>Maybe the estimate was for a larger remodeling than what this man did? Like maybe a concrete staircase, smaller steps, and a metal hand rail. It looks a bit odd as a wooden staircase leading directly to a guard rail. Just sayin</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 07/21/17 1:00:57 PM #119:	iPhone_7 posted... Maybe the estimate was for a larger remodeling than what this man did? Like maybe a concrete staircase, smaller steps, and a metal hand rail. It looks a bit odd as a wooden staircase leading directly to a guard rail. Just sayin Maybe, but all that does is inflate the actual cost to maybe $1000. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:883334642] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>iPhone_7 posted...</cite> <quote>Maybe the estimate was for a larger remodeling than what this man did? Like maybe a concrete staircase, smaller steps, and a metal hand rail. It looks a bit odd as a wooden staircase leading directly to a guard rail. Just sayin</quote> Maybe, but all that does is inflate the actual cost to maybe $1000.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Questionmarktarius 07/21/17 1:17:28 PM #121:	fire_bolt posted... Like, it's nice that he did this but its shoddy work. Realistically, I could build it right for around $1000 and it'd last decades. This is a super simple job that takes about 2 days work plus time for the concrete to dry. Let's look at the obvious flaws: Stars start at a guardrail - what the hell? The box structures at the bottom are only partially filled, creating a tripping hazard. The handrail is attached to the steps themselves, instead of set in the ground, making the entire structure badly unstable. The support beams are far too close together, and too far from the sides, making the structure even more unstable. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:883335533] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>fire_bolt posted...</cite> <quote>Like, it's nice that he did this but its shoddy work. Realistically, I could build it right for around $1000 and it'd last decades. This is a super simple job that takes about 2 days work plus time for the concrete to dry.</quote> Let's look at the obvious flaws: Stars start at a guardrail - what the hell? The box structures at the bottom are only partially filled, creating a tripping hazard. The handrail is attached to the steps themselves, instead of set in the ground, making the entire structure badly unstable. The support beams are far too close together, and too far from the sides, making the structure even more unstable.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sativa_Rose 07/21/17 1:38:19 PM #122:	Questionmarktarius posted... Much like Grenfell, while criminal dumbassery charges for the owner/manager/etc. are fully appropriate, it's your own damn fault for staying in an obvious deathtrap. Given that the people were extremely poor I don't know if they had much of a choice. Also was it some kind of rent controlled public housing type thing? They may have been literally like assigned those units. --- I may not go down in history, but I will go down on your sister. <cite>Sativa_Rose posted [p:883336620] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>Much like Grenfell, while criminal dumbassery charges for the owner/manager/etc. are fully appropriate, it's your own damn fault for staying in an obvious deathtrap. </quote> Given that the people were extremely poor I don't know if they had much of a choice. Also was it some kind of rent controlled public housing type thing? They may have been literally like assigned those units.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 07/21/17 1:42:24 PM #123:	Sativa_Rose posted... Questionmarktarius posted... Much like Grenfell, while criminal dumbassery charges for the owner/manager/etc. are fully appropriate, it's your own damn fault for staying in an obvious deathtrap. Given that the people were extremely poor I don't know if they had much of a choice. Also was it some kind of rent controlled public housing type thing? They may have been literally like assigned those units. They were actually in the process of being gentrified out anyway, as units were being converted into essentially condos. The point of wrapping the building in styrofoam wasn't so the rich bastards across the way wouldn't have to look at it, but to convince those rich bastards to buy an entire floor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if an investigation reveals that it was all an insurance fire that got out of hand. Plus, you know, the mandatory evacuation of similar building a week later means the residents have nowhere to live now. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:883336836] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>Much like Grenfell, while criminal dumbassery charges for the owner/manager/etc. are fully appropriate, it's your own damn fault for staying in an obvious deathtrap. </quote> Given that the people were extremely poor I don't know if they had much of a choice. Also was it some kind of rent controlled public housing type thing? They may have been literally like assigned those units.</quote> They were actually in the process of being gentrified out anyway, as units were being converted into essentially condos. The point of wrapping the building in styrofoam wasn't so the rich bastards across the way wouldn't have to look at it, but to convince those rich bastards to buy an entire floor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if an investigation reveals that it was all an insurance fire that got out of hand. Plus, you know, the mandatory evacuation of similar building a week later means the residents have nowhere to live now.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/21/17 2:17:13 PM #124:	Darkman124 posted... ChromaticAngel posted... You forgot the biggest problem. - Wood directly on dirt = termite AYCE all day every day for free. That staircase is f*ed. that's not as big a concern as you think pressure treated wood + termidor treatment over the area will give at least a 7 year lifetime before termites can get into the wood Mr Hangman posted... "But termites will get that staircase in 20 years!!!" So build another one then. the issue is if the structural integrity fails under load at 15 years and someone dies anyway i think we can all agree the contract estimates received by the city were bullshit, but @Transcendentia attempting to connect this to any other government activity with zero evidence is jumping to conclusions you decided before you ever read this article I recently shared (and tagged you in) an article about why government infrastructure projects are so extremely expensive and slow. I tagged you in this as a follow up to that. Of course I already believe that government projects are slow and expensive. I came to that conclusion a while ago after seeing the evidence for it. Why are you trying to treat that as a negative? <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883338708] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>ChromaticAngel posted...</cite> <quote> You forgot the biggest problem. - Wood directly on dirt = termite AYCE all day every day for free. That staircase is f*ed.</quote> that's not as big a concern as you think pressure treated wood + termidor treatment over the area will give at least a 7 year lifetime before termites can get into the wood <cite>Mr Hangman posted...</cite> <quote> "But termites will get that staircase in 20 years!!!" So build another one then. </quote> the issue is if the structural integrity fails under load at 15 years and someone dies anyway i think we can all agree the contract estimates received by the city were bullshit, but @Transcendentia attempting to connect this to any other government activity with zero evidence is jumping to conclusions you decided before you ever read this article</quote> I recently shared (and tagged you in) an article about why government infrastructure projects are so extremely expensive and slow. I tagged you in this as a follow up to that. Of course I already believe that government projects are slow and expensive. I came to that conclusion a while ago after seeing the evidence for it. Why are you trying to treat that as a negative?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sativa_Rose 07/21/17 2:27:46 PM #125:	Questionmarktarius posted... Sativa_Rose posted... Questionmarktarius posted... Much like Grenfell, while criminal dumbassery charges for the owner/manager/etc. are fully appropriate, it's your own damn fault for staying in an obvious deathtrap. Given that the people were extremely poor I don't know if they had much of a choice. Also was it some kind of rent controlled public housing type thing? They may have been literally like assigned those units. They were actually in the process of being gentrified out anyway, as units were being converted into essentially condos. The point of wrapping the building in styrofoam wasn't so the rich bastards across the way wouldn't have to look at it, but to convince those rich bastards to buy an entire floor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if an investigation reveals that it was all an insurance fire that got out of hand. Plus, you know, the mandatory evacuation of similar building a week later means the residents have nowhere to live now. Public housing for the poor seems to be a disaster no matter where you go. --- I may not go down in history, but I will go down on your sister. <cite>Sativa_Rose posted [p:883339270] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>Much like Grenfell, while criminal dumbassery charges for the owner/manager/etc. are fully appropriate, it's your own damn fault for staying in an obvious deathtrap. </quote> Given that the people were extremely poor I don't know if they had much of a choice. Also was it some kind of rent controlled public housing type thing? They may have been literally like assigned those units.</quote> They were actually in the process of being gentrified out anyway, as units were being converted into essentially condos. The point of wrapping the building in styrofoam wasn't so the rich bastards across the way wouldn't have to look at it, but to convince those rich bastards to buy an entire floor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if an investigation reveals that it was all an insurance fire that got out of hand. Plus, you know, the mandatory evacuation of similar building a week later means the residents have nowhere to live now.</quote> Public housing for the poor seems to be a disaster no matter where you go.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/21/17 2:29:12 PM #126:	Sativa_Rose posted... Questionmarktarius posted... Sativa_Rose posted... Questionmarktarius posted... Much like Grenfell, while criminal dumbassery charges for the owner/manager/etc. are fully appropriate, it's your own damn fault for staying in an obvious deathtrap. Given that the people were extremely poor I don't know if they had much of a choice. Also was it some kind of rent controlled public housing type thing? They may have been literally like assigned those units. They were actually in the process of being gentrified out anyway, as units were being converted into essentially condos. The point of wrapping the building in styrofoam wasn't so the rich bastards across the way wouldn't have to look at it, but to convince those rich bastards to buy an entire floor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if an investigation reveals that it was all an insurance fire that got out of hand. Plus, you know, the mandatory evacuation of similar building a week later means the residents have nowhere to live now. Public housing for the poor seems to be a disaster no matter where you go. I'm in Chicago, I can confirm that it's a huge disaster here. They recently had to tear down a bunch of the project buildings near the 55 ramp on Cicero. Too much violence and chaos in the area. Ever since they tore down the projects there, people have been going to the parks and public facilities more. It's noticeably safer and less violent. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883339358] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Sativa_Rose posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>Much like Grenfell, while criminal dumbassery charges for the owner/manager/etc. are fully appropriate, it's your own damn fault for staying in an obvious deathtrap. </quote> Given that the people were extremely poor I don't know if they had much of a choice. Also was it some kind of rent controlled public housing type thing? They may have been literally like assigned those units.</quote> They were actually in the process of being gentrified out anyway, as units were being converted into essentially condos. The point of wrapping the building in styrofoam wasn't so the rich bastards across the way wouldn't have to look at it, but to convince those rich bastards to buy an entire floor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if an investigation reveals that it was all an insurance fire that got out of hand. Plus, you know, the mandatory evacuation of similar building a week later means the residents have nowhere to live now.</quote> Public housing for the poor seems to be a disaster no matter where you go.</quote> I'm in Chicago, I can confirm that it's a huge disaster here. They recently had to tear down a bunch of the project buildings near the 55 ramp on Cicero. Too much violence and chaos in the area. Ever since they tore down the projects there, people have been going to the parks and public facilities more. It's noticeably safer and less violent.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Rexdragon125 07/21/17 2:32:39 PM #127:	Questionmarktarius posted... fire_bolt posted... Like, it's nice that he did this but its shoddy work. Realistically, I could build it right for around $1000 and it'd last decades. This is a super simple job that takes about 2 days work plus time for the concrete to dry. Let's look at the obvious flaws: Stars start at a guardrail - what the hell? The box structures at the bottom are only partially filled, creating a tripping hazard. The handrail is attached to the steps themselves, instead of set in the ground, making the entire structure badly unstable. The support beams are far too close together, and too far from the sides, making the structure even more unstable. And this is what safety standards and regulations are for! <cite>Rexdragon125 posted [p:883339542] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>fire_bolt posted...</cite> <quote>Like, it's nice that he did this but its shoddy work. Realistically, I could build it right for around $1000 and it'd last decades. This is a super simple job that takes about 2 days work plus time for the concrete to dry.</quote> Let's look at the obvious flaws: Stars start at a guardrail - what the hell? The box structures at the bottom are only partially filled, creating a tripping hazard. The handrail is attached to the steps themselves, instead of set in the ground, making the entire structure badly unstable. The support beams are far too close together, and too far from the sides, making the structure even more unstable.</quote> And this is what safety standards and regulations are for!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Transcendentia 07/21/17 2:40:47 PM #128:	Rexdragon125 posted... Questionmarktarius posted... fire_bolt posted... Like, it's nice that he did this but its shoddy work. Realistically, I could build it right for around $1000 and it'd last decades. This is a super simple job that takes about 2 days work plus time for the concrete to dry. Let's look at the obvious flaws: Stars start at a guardrail - what the hell? The box structures at the bottom are only partially filled, creating a tripping hazard. The handrail is attached to the steps themselves, instead of set in the ground, making the entire structure badly unstable. The support beams are far too close together, and too far from the sides, making the structure even more unstable. And this is what safety standards and regulations are for! It doesn't cost anywhere near $150,000 to make sure a staircase and handrail are built to code. Any professional carpenter knows this. That job wouldn't cost anywhere near $10,000 even if you get multiple inspections to make sure it's built to code. <cite>Transcendentia posted [p:883339956] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Rexdragon125 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote><cite>fire_bolt posted...</cite> <quote>Like, it's nice that he did this but its shoddy work. Realistically, I could build it right for around $1000 and it'd last decades. This is a super simple job that takes about 2 days work plus time for the concrete to dry.</quote> Let's look at the obvious flaws: Stars start at a guardrail - what the hell? The box structures at the bottom are only partially filled, creating a tripping hazard. The handrail is attached to the steps themselves, instead of set in the ground, making the entire structure badly unstable. The support beams are far too close together, and too far from the sides, making the structure even more unstable.</quote> And this is what safety standards and regulations are for!</quote> It doesn't cost anywhere near $150,000 to make sure a staircase and handrail are built to code. Any professional carpenter knows this. That job wouldn't cost anywhere near $10,000 even if you get multiple inspections to make sure it's built to code.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 07/21/17 2:41:27 PM #129:	Rexdragon125 posted... And this is what safety standards and regulations are for! Which, of course, totally explains the 27000% cost difference. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:883339991] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>Rexdragon125 posted...</cite> <quote>And this is what safety standards and regulations are for!</quote> Which, of course, totally explains the 27000% cost difference.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Questionmarktarius 07/21/17 2:49:34 PM #132:	fenderbender321 posted... The fact that the stairs are there at all should be increasing the level of safety in that park, even if there was room for improvement to make them even safer. The stairs butt up against a guardrail, which strongly suggests that people shouldn't be in that particular place anyway. From the article itself: Additionally, the park already has a more accessible path further past the new staircase %u2013 visitors simply used the rocky trail as a shortcut at their own risk. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:883340437] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>fenderbender321 posted...</cite> <quote>The fact that the stairs are there at all should be increasing the level of safety in that park, even if there was room for improvement to make them even safer.</quote> The stairs butt up against a guardrail, which strongly suggests that people shouldn't be in that particular place anyway. From the article itself: <quote>Additionally, the park already has a more accessible path further past the new staircase %u2013 visitors simply used the rocky trail as a shortcut at their own risk.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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myzz7 07/21/17 2:58:06 PM #134:	UnfairRepresent posted... Or the government's insaney bloated but secure stairway to heaven? it being government is no guarantee its safe and it costs an absurd amount of money which would take months and months to even approve and start the construction of it - meanwhile community waits around and deal with unsafe crap. gov sucks --- http://s10.postimage.org/mxioonsd1/gildavatar.gif http://gifgifs.com/res/0916/57ebaeea6c7a9047727112.gif <cite>myzz7 posted [p:883340950] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Or the government's insaney bloated but secure stairway to heaven?</quote> it being government is no guarantee its safe and it costs an absurd amount of money which would take months and months to even approve and start the construction of it - meanwhile community waits around and deal with unsafe crap. gov sucks</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 07/22/17 8:20:06 AM #138:	fenderbender321 posted... Well, we should let the people who use the park decide if it's good or not, and test it out for safety. The government doesn't know what's best for society. It never does. And then if people die or get hurt? --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:883382279] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>fenderbender321 posted...</cite> <quote>Well, we should let the people who use the park decide if it's good or not, and test it out for safety. The government doesn't know what's best for society. It never does.</quote> And then if people die or get hurt?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
untrustful 07/22/17 9:06:56 AM #139:	Naturally this news is making it's way in the conservatroll-sphere because you have an "industrious" individual who took matters in his own hands and you have a government looking to "waste" tax payer dollars on stairs that would be "worse" than what this guy did. It's stupid, the government could've put just any stairs it wanted there if it wanted to ignore certain laws and regulations therefore making it liable for any accidents that occur. This guy wanted to prove a point, but the point was lost after it tripped over his shitty stairs. --- "It's as simple as A-B-C Mr. Baskin...lock your windows." "Hey, we were just getting into the significance of nuclear love!" <cite>untrustful posted [p:883383442] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote>Naturally this news is making it's way in the conservatroll-sphere because you have an "industrious" individual who took matters in his own hands and you have a government looking to "waste" tax payer dollars on stairs that would be "worse" than what this guy did. It's stupid, the government could've put just any stairs it wanted there if it wanted to ignore certain laws and regulations therefore making it liable for any accidents that occur. This guy wanted to prove a point, but the point was lost after it tripped over his shitty stairs.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
faizan_faizan 07/22/17 10:31:37 AM #140:	fire_bolt posted... faizan_faizan posted... Anarchy_Juiblex posted... $500 and $65,000 are both fucking stupid estimates. There's a reasonable middle ground for fuck sake. You seriously think it would take more than $500 to build a staircase? Yes, it in fact would cost more than that in just materials to build a staircase that is both weatherproof and completely safe. It'd probably also cost more than $500 in labor costs since it'd take a team of two workers a couple of days to finish the project start to finish. GTFO of here with your shit talk. You clearly have no idea what it costs to work construction or what a project like this makes. You're like one of those guys who assumes that fixing a car should be cheap because he can change his own spark plugs. No one cares about details. The answer to "Can you build a staircase for $500?" is "Yes." Case in point: the article on the first page. --- Allergic to bull****. <cite>faizan_faizan posted [p:883386059] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>fire_bolt posted...</cite> <quote><cite>faizan_faizan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anarchy_Juiblex posted...</cite> <quote>$500 and $65,000 are both fucking stupid estimates. There's a reasonable middle ground for fuck sake.</quote> You seriously think it would take more than $500 to build a staircase?</quote> Yes, it in fact would cost more than that in just materials to build a staircase that is both weatherproof and completely safe. It'd probably also cost more than $500 in labor costs since it'd take a team of two workers a couple of days to finish the project start to finish. GTFO of here with your shit talk. You clearly have no idea what it costs to work construction or what a project like this makes. You're like one of those guys who assumes that fixing a car should be cheap because he can change his own spark plugs.</quote> No one cares about details. The answer to "Can you build a staircase for $500?" is "Yes." Case in point: the article on the first page.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CanuckCowboy 07/22/17 10:59:08 AM #141:	CruelBuffalo posted... Except the designs need to be with the plan checkers that work for the city government I said that in a previous post. And that's a paperwork / legal issue. Not a realistic necessity for proper safe construction. --- "I got a rollatruc, look." <cite>CanuckCowboy posted [p:883387147] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>CruelBuffalo posted...</cite> <quote>Except the designs need to be with the plan checkers that work for the city government</quote> I said that in a previous post. And that's a paperwork / legal issue. Not a realistic necessity for proper safe construction.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 07/22/17 1:28:53 PM #142:	CanuckCowboy posted... CruelBuffalo posted... Except the designs need to be with the plan checkers that work for the city government I said that in a previous post. And that's a paperwork / legal issue. Not a realistic necessity for proper safe construction. Uhuh --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:883393772] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>CanuckCowboy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>CruelBuffalo posted...</cite> <quote>Except the designs need to be with the plan checkers that work for the city government</quote> I said that in a previous post. And that's a paperwork / legal issue. Not a realistic necessity for proper safe construction.</quote> Uhuh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
fire_bolt 07/22/17 3:13:44 PM #143:	faizan_faizan posted... fire_bolt posted... faizan_faizan posted... Anarchy_Juiblex posted... $500 and $65,000 are both fucking stupid estimates. There's a reasonable middle ground for fuck sake. You seriously think it would take more than $500 to build a staircase? Yes, it in fact would cost more than that in just materials to build a staircase that is both weatherproof and completely safe. It'd probably also cost more than $500 in labor costs since it'd take a team of two workers a couple of days to finish the project start to finish. GTFO of here with your shit talk. You clearly have no idea what it costs to work construction or what a project like this makes. You're like one of those guys who assumes that fixing a car should be cheap because he can change his own spark plugs. No one cares about details. The answer to "Can you build a staircase for $500?" is "Yes." Case in point: the article on the first page. "Can you build a car for $500? Yes, but it's gonna be foot powered and have doughnuts for wheels" There's a difference between making something functional and just slapping something together and calling it a day. While the staircase he built IS functional, it'll start to rot away in less than a year and will be unsafe in no more than 2 years. Spend $550 every two years or spend $1000 on something that will last decades, I wonder which is better? --- If her hips don't break, you didn't "carry" hard enough" -SpunkySix http://steamcommunity.com/id/bolt_thundara/wishlist <cite>fire_bolt posted [p:883398861] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>faizan_faizan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>fire_bolt posted...</cite> <quote><cite>faizan_faizan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Anarchy_Juiblex posted...</cite> <quote>$500 and $65,000 are both fucking stupid estimates. There's a reasonable middle ground for fuck sake.</quote> You seriously think it would take more than $500 to build a staircase?</quote> Yes, it in fact would cost more than that in just materials to build a staircase that is both weatherproof and completely safe. It'd probably also cost more than $500 in labor costs since it'd take a team of two workers a couple of days to finish the project start to finish. GTFO of here with your shit talk. You clearly have no idea what it costs to work construction or what a project like this makes. You're like one of those guys who assumes that fixing a car should be cheap because he can change his own spark plugs.</quote> No one cares about details. The answer to "Can you build a staircase for $500?" is "Yes." Case in point: the article on the first page.</quote> "Can you build a car for $500? Yes, but it's gonna be foot powered and have doughnuts for wheels" There's a difference between making something functional and just slapping something together and calling it a day. While the staircase he built IS functional, it'll start to rot away in less than a year and will be unsafe in no more than 2 years. Spend $550 every two years or spend $1000 on something that will last decades, I wonder which is better?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Balrog0 07/23/17 2:38:16 PM #144:	untrustful posted... Naturally this news is making it's way in the conservatroll-sphere because you have an "industrious" individual who took matters in his own hands and you have a government looking to "waste" tax payer dollars on stairs that would be "worse" than what this guy did. I saw it first from a city council member who describes himself as hyperliberal --- He would make his mark, if not on this tree, then on that wall; if not with teeth and claws, then with penknife and razor. <cite>Balrog0 posted [p:883451811] in Libertaria... [t:75586676]...</cite> <quote><cite>untrustful posted...</cite> <quote>Naturally this news is making it's way in the conservatroll-sphere because you have an "industrious" individual who took matters in his own hands and you have a government looking to "waste" tax payer dollars on stairs that would be "worse" than what this guy did.</quote> I saw it first from a city council member who describes himself as hyperliberal</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Libertarian builds $550 staircase for park after city said it would cost $150000 (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Libertarian builds $550 staircase for park after city said it would cost $150000