killing an unborn child?

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Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:04:25 PM #301:	That_Happened posted... You're ignoring the life of the mother. And you're certainly not "protecting" the life of that baby once it's born. What you're doing is saying "Because of my religious beliefs Stopped reading there. This has nothing to do with religion. Try a rebuttal again, this time without blaming religion on a basic human instinct that we all possess, which is to protect our own kind. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883222015] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>You're ignoring the life of the mother. And you're certainly not "protecting" the life of that baby once it's born. What you're doing is saying "Because of my religious beliefs</quote> Stopped reading there. This has nothing to do with religion. Try a rebuttal again, this time without blaming religion on a basic human instinct that we all possess, which is to protect our own kind.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 07/19/17 5:04:32 PM #302:	Asherlee is keeping composure very well, terra. You're the one speaking down to people and being aggressive. You called someone daft who then said they don't appreciate being called daft. You then claimed never to have insulted anyone except me. You've bullshat your way into a corner and are now trying to bullshit your way out. I even expressed respect for you that you see rape pregnancies as a separate issue in the abortion debate and you didn't respond. You've had people criticizing you for that, presumably on BOTH sides. I get called a troll and shitposter but then offer no criticism whatsoever when other people are shitting on you, instead of jumping on the bandwagon like an actual troll would do. You got your first impression and slapped a label on and you ignore every single post of mine that you can't think of a way to use to justify that label, because that would mean releasing your stubborn death grip on that first impression. You want people only to appear how you've already perceived them to appear and you stay silent when they don't. A good way to avoid admitting having been wrong, but a transparent one. --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:883222026] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote>Asherlee is keeping composure very well, terra. You're the one speaking down to people and being aggressive. You called someone daft who then said they don't appreciate being called daft. You then claimed never to have insulted anyone except me. You've bullshat your way into a corner and are now trying to bullshit your way out. I even expressed respect for you that you see rape pregnancies as a separate issue in the abortion debate and you didn't respond. You've had people criticizing you for that, presumably on BOTH sides. I get called a troll and shitposter but then offer no criticism whatsoever when other people are shitting on you, instead of jumping on the bandwagon like an actual troll would do. You got your first impression and slapped a label on and you ignore every single post of mine that you can't think of a way to use to justify that label, because that would mean releasing your stubborn death grip on that first impression. You want people only to appear how you've already perceived them to appear and you stay silent when they don't. A good way to avoid admitting having been wrong, but a transparent one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
That_Happened 07/19/17 5:05:20 PM #303:	Vindris_SNH posted... "A human fetus is not a human" "A human toddler is not a human" And a tadpole is not a frog. A caterpillar is not a butterfly. An egg is not a chicken. I feel like this is stuff you go over in 1st grade but maybe you grew up in Mississippi or something. --- http://fusionanomaly.net/magnoliabutitdidhappen.jpg <cite>That_Happened posted [p:883222086] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>"A human fetus is not a human" "A human toddler is not a human"</quote> And a tadpole is not a frog. A caterpillar is not a butterfly. An egg is not a chicken. I feel like this is stuff you go over in 1st grade but maybe you grew up in Mississippi or something.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
That_Happened 07/19/17 5:05:48 PM #304:	Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... You're ignoring the life of the mother. And you're certainly not "protecting" the life of that baby once it's born. What you're doing is saying "Because of my religious beliefs Stopped reading there. This has nothing to do with religion. Pfft. Who are you kidding. --- http://fusionanomaly.net/magnoliabutitdidhappen.jpg <cite>That_Happened posted [p:883222114] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>You're ignoring the life of the mother. And you're certainly not "protecting" the life of that baby once it's born. What you're doing is saying "Because of my religious beliefs</quote> Stopped reading there. This has nothing to do with religion.</quote> Pfft. Who are you kidding.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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hockeybub89 07/19/17 5:10:25 PM #306:	Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... You're ignoring the life of the mother. And you're certainly not "protecting" the life of that baby once it's born. What you're doing is saying "Because of my religious beliefs Stopped reading there. This has nothing to do with religion. Try a rebuttal again, this time without blaming religion on a basic human instinct that we all possess, which is to protect our own kind. Then why would anyone be for banning abortion when it demonstrably protects our kind? --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:883222389] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>You're ignoring the life of the mother. And you're certainly not "protecting" the life of that baby once it's born. What you're doing is saying "Because of my religious beliefs</quote> Stopped reading there. This has nothing to do with religion. Try a rebuttal again, this time without blaming religion on a basic human instinct that we all possess, which is to protect our own kind.</quote> Then why would anyone be for banning abortion when it demonstrably protects our kind?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
That_Happened 07/19/17 5:10:50 PM #307:	Vindris_SNH posted... Try a rebuttal again, this time without blaming religion on a basic human instinct that we all possess, which is to protect our own kind. 50% of the country is "pro-choice", 44% is "pro-life." You have a weird definition of "basic human instinct we all possess." But if it helps your argument, pro-choice people are protecting their own: they're protecting the mother and father from bringing a child into this world that they don't want, can't afford, and feel they aren't responsible enough to take care of. Just because they're not protecting the unborn clump of fetal cells your God tells you to protect doesn't mean they're not protecting someone else. --- http://fusionanomaly.net/magnoliabutitdidhappen.jpg <cite>That_Happened posted [p:883222426] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>Try a rebuttal again, this time without blaming religion on a basic human instinct that we all possess, which is to protect our own kind.</quote> 50% of the country is "pro-choice", 44% is "pro-life." You have a weird definition of "basic human instinct we all possess." But if it helps your argument, pro-choice people are protecting their own: they're protecting the mother and father from bringing a child into this world that they don't want, can't afford, and feel they aren't responsible enough to take care of. Just because they're not protecting the unborn clump of fetal cells your God tells you to protect doesn't mean they're not protecting someone else.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 07/19/17 5:12:24 PM #308:	Haldol posted... I just like how people who legitimately hold life sacred and view an unborn child as a human deserving of life are being shotted on as if our beliefs are so awful. How dare we view an unborn child as a human being. That must mean we hate women. Man this world is doomed. For all those who blame religion for all the ills of the world, your rampant atheism and animalistic view really don't offer a healthy alternative. You are no better than the tyrannical religious leaders of you think it's cool to call people ignorant jist because they view an unborn child as a human being I think fetuses are human. I just think they should be terminated if they aren't wanted. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:883222528] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Haldol posted...</cite> <quote>I just like how people who legitimately hold life sacred and view an unborn child as a human deserving of life are being shotted on as if our beliefs are so awful. How dare we view an unborn child as a human being. That must mean we hate women. Man this world is doomed. For all those who blame religion for all the ills of the world, your rampant atheism and animalistic view really don't offer a healthy alternative. You are no better than the tyrannical religious leaders of you think it's cool to call people ignorant jist because they view an unborn child as a human being</quote> I think fetuses are human. I just think they should be terminated if they aren't wanted.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 07/19/17 5:13:17 PM #310:	For the record I hate the terms pro life and pro choice Everyone is pro life and nearly everyone is pro choice. Starting the issue out by backhandedly insulting people is one of the reasons "Pro-Lifers" manage to conflate religion with factual arguments, because the conversation was brought down to that level before it began --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:883222591] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote>For the record I hate the terms pro life and pro choice Everyone is pro life and nearly everyone is pro choice. Starting the issue out by backhandedly insulting people is one of the reasons "Pro-Lifers" manage to conflate religion with factual arguments, because the conversation was brought down to that level before it began</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:14:03 PM #311:	TrevorBlack79 posted... Forcing a pregnant woman to carry a fetus to term against her will is literally evil, yes. I'd like to bring up the concept of personal responsibility. Taking responsibility for the choices, and sometimes the mistakes that you make in life. First, let's assume that the woman was not raped (because most abortions are not performed because of a rape situation). Second, let's assume that the woman knew there was a possibility she would become pregnant, even when using birth control (because almost everyone knows this in today's world). Now, you're telling me, that this woman who had sex and knew the possible consequence, gets to literally kill a human inside of her, that she and the husband are responsible for creating and putting there? No. That'd be no different than me leaving a sign in the middle of the woods that says, "Free lodging in my house for 9 months!" and betting that probably no one will find it. But then, some random homeless guy happens upon the sign one day and comes into my house. After a few weeks of him being there, I decide I regret the decision of playing that risky little game, and the consequence it created, so I literally kill and mutilate the homeless man, right there in my house, then throw him out the back door. Killing humans because they inconvenience you is evil. Protecting human life... is not. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883222637] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>TrevorBlack79 posted...</cite><quote>Forcing a pregnant woman to carry a fetus to term against her will is literally evil, yes.</quote> I'd like to bring up the concept of personal responsibility. Taking responsibility for the choices, and sometimes the mistakes that you make in life. First, let's assume that the woman was not raped (because most abortions are not performed because of a rape situation). Second, let's assume that the woman knew there was a possibility she would become pregnant, even when using birth control (because almost everyone knows this in today's world). Now, you're telling me, that this woman who had sex and knew the possible consequence, gets to literally kill a human inside of her, that she and the husband are responsible for creating and putting there? No. That'd be no different than me leaving a sign in the middle of the woods that says, "Free lodging in my house for 9 months!" and betting that probably no one will find it. But then, some random homeless guy happens upon the sign one day and comes into my house. After a few weeks of him being there, I decide I regret the decision of playing that risky little game, and the consequence it created, so I literally kill and mutilate the homeless man, right there in my house, then throw him out the back door. Killing humans because they inconvenience you is evil. Protecting human life... is not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
That_Happened 07/19/17 5:16:13 PM #312:	Vindris_SNH posted... Now, you're telling me, that this woman who had sex and knew the possible consequence, gets to literally kill a human inside of her, that she and the husband are responsible for creating and putting there? No. Actually yes. Which is why it's legal. I know, I know, God will judge us all in the end. But your "no" should be replaced with "yes" because that's literally allowed. Vindris_SNH posted... Killing humans because they inconvenience you is evil. I agree. You should never kill a human being because they inconvenience you. But a fetus? That's more nuanced. --- http://fusionanomaly.net/magnoliabutitdidhappen.jpg <cite>That_Happened posted [p:883222763] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>Now, you're telling me, that this woman who had sex and knew the possible consequence, gets to literally kill a human inside of her, that she and the husband are responsible for creating and putting there? No.</quote> Actually yes. Which is why it's legal. I know, I know, God will judge us all in the end. But your "no" should be replaced with "yes" because that's literally allowed. <cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>Killing humans because they inconvenience you is evil. </quote> I agree. You should never kill a human being because they inconvenience you. But a fetus? That's more nuanced.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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hockeybub89 07/19/17 5:22:40 PM #315:	ToonLinkWithGun posted... Typical responses. He disagrees with abortion so he is obviously living his life according to the old testament and thinks all science is stupid! Try harder noobs Hey now. You're the one that doesn't give a damn about guys with labcoats. So science is only stupid when you don't like it? Law isn't science, but I bet you would be holding it up for all to see if abortion was still illegal. You act as if everything you have ever thought has come you to independent of any outside influence. But that is a nonsense excuse that You're sticking to because you aren't open to changing your mind when it doesn't suit you. You have absolutely changed your mind many times unless you are going to say you have all the exact same beliefs that you have had since you were old enough to reason. I don't know why you are proud to be so stubborn. "I believe what I believe and nothing will ever change my mind". This is the kind of mentality that keeps people in the dark ages, beholden to books that claim they are truth because they say they are truth. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:883223154] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>ToonLinkWithGun posted...</cite> <quote>Typical responses. He disagrees with abortion so he is obviously living his life according to the old testament and thinks all science is stupid! Try harder noobs</quote> Hey now. You're the one that doesn't give a damn about guys with labcoats. So science is only stupid when you don't like it? Law isn't science, but I bet you would be holding it up for all to see if abortion was still illegal. You act as if everything you have ever thought has come you to independent of any outside influence. But that is a nonsense excuse that You're sticking to because you aren't open to changing your mind when it doesn't suit you. You have absolutely changed your mind many times unless you are going to say you have all the exact same beliefs that you have had since you were old enough to reason. I don't know why you are proud to be so stubborn. "I believe what I believe and nothing will ever change my mind". This is the kind of mentality that keeps people in the dark ages, beholden to books that claim they are truth because they say they are truth.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:24:40 PM #316:	That_Happened posted... Vindris_SNH posted... "A human fetus is not a human" "A human toddler is not a human" And a tadpole is not a frog. A caterpillar is not a butterfly. An egg is not a chicken. I feel like this is stuff you go over in 1st grade but maybe you grew up in Mississippi or something. A tadpole? A caterpillar? Those are larval stages in the life cycle of those creatures. We aren't amphibians, and we don't have a larval stage. Regardless, even if we did, they would be our own kind and worth protecting. Throughout nature, all kinds of creatures seek to preserve the lives of their kin. Stop listening to liberal propaganda and think for yourself, kid. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883223280] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>"A human fetus is not a human" "A human toddler is not a human"</quote> And a tadpole is not a frog. A caterpillar is not a butterfly. An egg is not a chicken. I feel like this is stuff you go over in 1st grade but maybe you grew up in Mississippi or something.</quote> A tadpole? A caterpillar? Those are larval stages in the life cycle of those creatures. We aren't amphibians, and we don't have a larval stage. Regardless, even if we did, they would be our own kind and worth protecting. Throughout nature, all kinds of creatures seek to preserve the lives of their kin. Stop listening to liberal propaganda and think for yourself, kid.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:26:52 PM #317:	Asherlee10 posted... Personhood is really at the heart of the abortion discussion. Make sense? I already stated that I understand that, but that I think the debate over "personhood" is ridiculous. The definition of personhood isn't exactly scientific, so I wonder why our laws on abortion now revolve around some imaginary concept. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883223416] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Personhood is really at the heart of the abortion discussion. Make sense?</quote> I already stated that I understand that, but that I think the debate over "personhood" is ridiculous. The definition of personhood isn't exactly scientific, so I wonder why our laws on abortion now revolve around some imaginary concept.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 07/19/17 5:27:16 PM #318:	Vindris_SNH posted... I'd like to bring up the concept of personal responsibility You mean the like responsibility of the decision of whether or not to have an abortion? No wait you want to take that away from people Vindris_SNH posted... First, let's assume that the woman was not raped (because most abortions are not performed because of a rape situation). Second, let's assume that the woman knew there was a possibility she would become pregnant, even when using birth control (because almost everyone knows this in today's world). Now, you're telling me, that this woman who had sex and knew the possible consequence, gets to literally kill a human inside of her, that she and the husband are responsible for creating and putting there? Yes. And your use of "human" is dishonest as fuck. Which immedately tells us what you really think about your argument and how you know it falls apart on a factual level, so you need emotionally charged language to sell it. That'd be no different than me leaving a sign in the middle of the woods that says, "Free lodging in my house for 9 months!" and betting that probably no one will find it. But then, some random homeless guy happens upon the sign one day and comes into my house. After a few weeks of him being there, I decide I regret the decision of playing that risky little game, and the consequence it created, so I literally kill and mutilate the homeless man, right there in my house, then throw him out the back door. Erm no. It's absolutely nothing like that in any way. That was just a load of nonsense. For starters the fetus is not a "Homeless man" it has no nervous system, no functioning mind. It cannot comprehend the world or pain, no feeling whatsoever. It is literally and figuratively far far far more similar to your sperm than a child, let alone an adult man. And I doubt you have any hestiation in your masturbation habbits. For second. That "House you invited a homeless man to live in" is not your body. The fetus is inside the woman's body. It is literally a part of her and requires her to develop. Comparing that to any object or home metaphor is comical. She has a right to her own body. Her body is her own. Something else inside her body does not trump her rights. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:883223440] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote> I'd like to bring up the concept of personal responsibility</quote> You mean the like responsibility of the decision of whether or not to have an abortion? No wait you want to take that away from people <cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote> First, let's assume that the woman was not raped (because most abortions are not performed because of a rape situation). Second, let's assume that the woman knew there was a possibility she would become pregnant, even when using birth control (because almost everyone knows this in today's world). Now, you're telling me, that this woman who had sex and knew the possible consequence, gets to literally kill a human inside of her, that she and the husband are responsible for creating and putting there?</quote> Yes. And your use of "human" is dishonest as fuck. Which immedately tells us what you really think about your argument and how you know it falls apart on a factual level, so you need emotionally charged language to sell it. <quote>That'd be no different than me leaving a sign in the middle of the woods that says, "Free lodging in my house for 9 months!" and betting that probably no one will find it. But then, some random homeless guy happens upon the sign one day and comes into my house. After a few weeks of him being there, I decide I regret the decision of playing that risky little game, and the consequence it created, so I literally kill and mutilate the homeless man, right there in my house, then throw him out the back door.</quote> Erm no. It's absolutely nothing like that in any way. That was just a load of nonsense. For starters the fetus is not a "Homeless man" it has no nervous system, no functioning mind. It cannot comprehend the world or pain, no feeling whatsoever. It is literally and figuratively far far far more similar to your sperm than a child, let alone an adult man. And I doubt you have any hestiation in your masturbation habbits. For second. That "House you invited a homeless man to live in" is not your body. The fetus is inside the woman's body. It is literally a part of her and requires her to develop. Comparing that to any object or home metaphor is comical. She has a right to her own body. Her body is her own. Something else inside her body does not trump her rights.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
That_Happened 07/19/17 5:27:32 PM #319:	Vindris_SNH posted... Stop listening to liberal propaganda and think for yourself, kid. Jesus is the original liberal propaganda. I'm surprised you're not on my side in this one. --- http://fusionanomaly.net/magnoliabutitdidhappen.jpg <cite>That_Happened posted [p:883223467] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>Stop listening to liberal propaganda and think for yourself, kid.</quote> Jesus is the original liberal propaganda. I'm surprised you're not on my side in this one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:27:51 PM #320:	That_Happened posted... clump of fetal cells your God tells you to protect religion try again --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883223483] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>clump of fetal cells your God tells you to protect </quote> religion try again</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:28:14 PM #321:	That_Happened posted... Jesus oops, you slipped again, maybe one more shot at it? --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883223507] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>Jesus</quote> oops, you slipped again, maybe one more shot at it?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
That_Happened 07/19/17 5:30:25 PM #322:	Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... Jesus oops, you slipped again, maybe one more shot at it? Bro your religion has everything to do with your position. I'm not going to take you seriously specifically because of that. So please, take your Bible and move on. --- http://fusionanomaly.net/magnoliabutitdidhappen.jpg <cite>That_Happened posted [p:883223640] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>Jesus</quote> oops, you slipped again, maybe one more shot at it?</quote> Bro your religion has everything to do with your position. I'm not going to take you seriously specifically because of that. So please, take your Bible and move on.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:30:32 PM #323:	That_Happened posted... You should never kill a human being because they inconvenience you. But a fetus? That's more nuanced. Human life begins at conception. Calling a human not human because he or she is in an early stage of life doesn't make them not human. (he or she because sex is determined at conception) --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883223649] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>You should never kill a human being because they inconvenience you. But a fetus? That's more nuanced.</quote> Human life begins at conception. Calling a human not human because he or she is in an early stage of life doesn't make them not human. (he or she because sex is determined at conception)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:31:27 PM #324:	That_Happened posted... Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... Jesus oops, you slipped again, maybe one more shot at it? Bro your religion has everything to do with your position. I'm not going to take you seriously specifically because of that. Please tell me how any of my points in this thread have had absolutely anything to do with religion. ITT: You MUST be religious if you care about human life. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883223702] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>Jesus</quote> oops, you slipped again, maybe one more shot at it?</quote> Bro your religion has everything to do with your position. I'm not going to take you seriously specifically because of that.</quote> Please tell me how any of my points in this thread have had absolutely anything to do with religion. ITT: You MUST be religious if you care about human life.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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hockeybub89 07/19/17 5:32:05 PM #326:	Vindris_SNH posted... That'd be no different than me leaving a sign in the middle of the woods that says, "Free lodging in my house for 9 months!" and betting that probably no one will find it. But then, some random homeless guy happens upon the sign one day and comes into my house. After a few weeks of him being there, I decide I regret the decision of playing that risky little game, and the consequence it created, so I literally kill and mutilate the homeless man, right there in my house, then throw him out the back door. The man can be kicked out alive. Unfortunately, fetuses cannot. How does the world benefit from forcing women to carry to term when they don't want to? So we can have millions of children that grow up in poverty, to abusive/neglectful parents, or in orphanages? But hey at least they were brought into this world and are aware of their suffering! At least you can sleep at night feeling like a "good person" because you forced your religious beliefs on the world to "better" it. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:883223744] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>That'd be no different than me leaving a sign in the middle of the woods that says, "Free lodging in my house for 9 months!" and betting that probably no one will find it. But then, some random homeless guy happens upon the sign one day and comes into my house. After a few weeks of him being there, I decide I regret the decision of playing that risky little game, and the consequence it created, so I literally kill and mutilate the homeless man, right there in my house, then throw him out the back door.</quote> The man can be kicked out alive. Unfortunately, fetuses cannot. How does the world benefit from forcing women to carry to term when they don't want to? So we can have millions of children that grow up in poverty, to abusive/neglectful parents, or in orphanages? But hey at least they were brought into this world and are aware of their suffering! At least you can sleep at night feeling like a "good person" because you forced your religious beliefs on the world to "better" it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 07/19/17 5:34:15 PM #329:	Asherlee10 posted... Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... Jesus oops, you slipped again, maybe one more shot at it? Bro your religion has everything to do with your position. I'm not going to take you seriously specifically because of that. Please tell me how any of my points in this thread have had absolutely anything to do with religion. ITT: You MUST be religious if you care about human life. ALmost always, pro-life arguments are based on emotional appeals which are rooted in religious beliefs. I'd including demanding that the fetus be refered to as a human no matter how awkward contextually is actually an example of this very point. It's not the sign of a confident argument on merit. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:883223887] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>Jesus</quote> oops, you slipped again, maybe one more shot at it?</quote> Bro your religion has everything to do with your position. I'm not going to take you seriously specifically because of that.</quote> Please tell me how any of my points in this thread have had absolutely anything to do with religion. ITT: You MUST be religious if you care about human life.</quote> ALmost always, pro-life arguments are based on emotional appeals which are rooted in religious beliefs.</quote> I'd including demanding that the fetus be refered to as a human no matter how awkward contextually is actually an example of this very point. It's not the sign of a confident argument on merit.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
That_Happened 07/19/17 5:36:18 PM #330:	Vindris_SNH posted... Please tell me how any of my points in this thread have had absolutely anything to do with religion. ITT: You MUST be religious if you care about human life. You don't necessarily have to be religious to be pro-life...but most of you are. And I know you are for a FACT. --- http://fusionanomaly.net/magnoliabutitdidhappen.jpg <cite>That_Happened posted [p:883223994] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>Please tell me how any of my points in this thread have had absolutely anything to do with religion. ITT: You MUST be religious if you care about human life.</quote> You don't necessarily have to be religious to be pro-life...but most of you are. And I know you are for a FACT.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 07/19/17 5:37:12 PM #331:	Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... Vindris_SNH posted... "A human fetus is not a human" "A human toddler is not a human" And a tadpole is not a frog. A caterpillar is not a butterfly. An egg is not a chicken. I feel like this is stuff you go over in 1st grade but maybe you grew up in Mississippi or something. A tadpole? A caterpillar? Those are larval stages in the life cycle of those creatures. We aren't amphibians, and we don't have a larval stage. Regardless, even if we did, they would be our own kind and worth protecting. Throughout nature, all kinds of creatures seek to preserve the lives of their kin. Stop listening to liberal propaganda and think for yourself, kid. Many animals have been known to kill their young. There is abortion in nature, so citing animals may not be a great direction to go. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:883224040] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>"A human fetus is not a human" "A human toddler is not a human"</quote> And a tadpole is not a frog. A caterpillar is not a butterfly. An egg is not a chicken. I feel like this is stuff you go over in 1st grade but maybe you grew up in Mississippi or something.</quote> A tadpole? A caterpillar? Those are larval stages in the life cycle of those creatures. We aren't amphibians, and we don't have a larval stage. Regardless, even if we did, they would be our own kind and worth protecting. Throughout nature, all kinds of creatures seek to preserve the lives of their kin. Stop listening to liberal propaganda and think for yourself, kid.</quote> Many animals have been known to kill their young. There is abortion in nature, so citing animals may not be a great direction to go.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:40:46 PM #332:	Asherlee10 posted... Vindris_SNH posted... Asherlee10 posted... Personhood is really at the heart of the abortion discussion. Make sense? I already stated that I understand that, but that I think the debate over "personhood" is ridiculous. The definition of personhood isn't exactly scientific, so I wonder why our laws on abortion now revolve around some imaginary concept. To be fair, just because you think it's ridiculous doesn't mean much. And I'm lead to believe that if you think the discussion of personhood, which is at the heart of the abortion debate, is ridiculous, I don't think you understand the concepts. That would make sense given the context of your previous posts, that you just don't understand. There might be away to explain it to you in another way, but I'm a bit drained at the moment (I'm sick). I don't know why I have to reiterate this, but I've read into and understand the concept of personhood. But a human life is a human life, period. I don't think personhood is an important factor here. A human life has been created at the moment of conception, and I believe that there is value in human life. Why? Well I don't know, why don't you go ask a mother why she values her 4 year old son. Human life doesn't have value to us because it provides us with something we didn't have before. In fact, children can be a massive burden on their parents. But the instinct is to care for them and to love them, regardless of how they alter your life. Caring for our own kin is just a basic instinct in us humans. I care about human life, especially when it has never done anything wrong to anyone, and is helpless. These human lives have value to me, because of my own basic human instinct. Not because I'm some saint. Abortion goes against nature. It goes against human instinct to protect our own offspring. I think it is an absolutely abhorrent act. (of course you may have exceptions for rape and death from child birth). --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883224238] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Personhood is really at the heart of the abortion discussion. Make sense?</quote> I already stated that I understand that, but that I think the debate over "personhood" is ridiculous. The definition of personhood isn't exactly scientific, so I wonder why our laws on abortion now revolve around some imaginary concept.</quote> To be fair, just because you think it's ridiculous doesn't mean much. And I'm lead to believe that if you think the discussion of personhood, which is at the heart of the abortion debate, is ridiculous, I don't think you understand the concepts. That would make sense given the context of your previous posts, that you just don't understand. There might be away to explain it to you in another way, but I'm a bit drained at the moment (I'm sick).</quote> I don't know why I have to reiterate this, but I've read into and understand the concept of personhood. But a human life is a human life, period. I don't think personhood is an important factor here. A human life has been created at the moment of conception, and I believe that there is value in human life. Why? Well I don't know, why don't you go ask a mother why she values her 4 year old son. Human life doesn't have value to us because it provides us with something we didn't have before. In fact, children can be a massive burden on their parents. But the instinct is to care for them and to love them, regardless of how they alter your life. Caring for our own kin is just a basic instinct in us humans. I care about human life, especially when it has never done anything wrong to anyone, and is helpless. These human lives have value to me, because of my own basic human instinct. Not because I'm some saint. Abortion goes against nature. It goes against human instinct to protect our own offspring. I think it is an absolutely abhorrent act. (of course you may have exceptions for rape and death from child birth).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:42:26 PM #334:	hockeybub89 posted... How does the world benefit from forcing women to carry to term when they don't want to? So we can have millions of children that grow up in poverty, to abusive/neglectful parents, or in orphanages? But hey at least they were brought into this world and are aware of their suffering! ITT: Every child that was ever going to be aborted would have had a shitty life. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883224347] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>How does the world benefit from forcing women to carry to term when they don't want to? So we can have millions of children that grow up in poverty, to abusive/neglectful parents, or in orphanages? But hey at least they were brought into this world and are aware of their suffering! </quote> ITT: Every child that was ever going to be aborted would have had a shitty life.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 07/19/17 5:42:42 PM #335:	Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... You should never kill a human being because they inconvenience you. But a fetus? That's more nuanced. Human life begins at conception. Calling a human not human because he or she is in an early stage of life doesn't make them not human. (he or she because sex is determined at conception) I know that the genitals form from sex-neutral gonads later on, not at conception, but I don't know enough about chromosome function to know when sex is determined. I'll give you that. Seems more likely that it is "determined" at conception but doesn't physically take place right away. I'm curious though. Will look this up. --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:883224363] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>You should never kill a human being because they inconvenience you. But a fetus? That's more nuanced.</quote> Human life begins at conception. Calling a human not human because he or she is in an early stage of life doesn't make them not human. (he or she because sex is determined at conception)</quote> I know that the genitals form from sex-neutral gonads later on, not at conception, but I don't know enough about chromosome function to know when sex is determined. I'll give you that. Seems more likely that it is "determined" at conception but doesn't physically take place right away. I'm curious though. Will look this up.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:43:00 PM #336:	Asherlee10 posted... Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... Jesus oops, you slipped again, maybe one more shot at it? Bro your religion has everything to do with your position. I'm not going to take you seriously specifically because of that. Please tell me how any of my points in this thread have had absolutely anything to do with religion. ITT: You MUST be religious if you care about human life. ALmost always, pro-life arguments are based on emotional appeals which are rooted in religious beliefs. Not mine. Try again. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883224377] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>Jesus</quote> oops, you slipped again, maybe one more shot at it?</quote> Bro your religion has everything to do with your position. I'm not going to take you seriously specifically because of that.</quote> Please tell me how any of my points in this thread have had absolutely anything to do with religion. ITT: You MUST be religious if you care about human life.</quote> ALmost always, pro-life arguments are based on emotional appeals which are rooted in religious beliefs.</quote> Not mine. Try again.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImTheMacheteGuy 07/19/17 5:47:59 PM #337:	Vindris_SNH posted... hockeybub89 posted... How does the world benefit from forcing women to carry to term when they don't want to? So we can have millions of children that grow up in poverty, to abusive/neglectful parents, or in orphanages? But hey at least they were brought into this world and are aware of their suffering! ITT: Every child that was ever going to be aborted would have had a shitty life. No one said every one. --- Place-holder sig because new phone and old sigs not saved :/ <cite>ImTheMacheteGuy posted [p:883224700] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>How does the world benefit from forcing women to carry to term when they don't want to? So we can have millions of children that grow up in poverty, to abusive/neglectful parents, or in orphanages? But hey at least they were brought into this world and are aware of their suffering! </quote> ITT: Every child that was ever going to be aborted would have had a shitty life.</quote> No one said every one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
That_Happened 07/19/17 5:48:04 PM #338:	Vindris_SNH posted... Not mine. Try again. Good old "Christianity is the truth, and no religion is hated more unfairly than Christianity" Vindris_SNH. Surely God has NOTHING to do with your views on abortion. The fuck outta here. --- http://fusionanomaly.net/magnoliabutitdidhappen.jpg <cite>That_Happened posted [p:883224705] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>Not mine. Try again.</quote> Good old "Christianity is the truth, and no religion is hated more unfairly than Christianity" Vindris_SNH. Surely God has NOTHING to do with your views on abortion. The fuck outta here.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnfairRepresent 07/19/17 5:49:53 PM #340:	Vindris_SNH posted... hockeybub89 posted... How does the world benefit from forcing women to carry to term when they don't want to? So we can have millions of children that grow up in poverty, to abusive/neglectful parents, or in orphanages? But hey at least they were brought into this world and are aware of their suffering! ITT: Every child that was ever going to be aborted would have had a shitty life. No one has ever said that. That wasn't his point at all. You're failing to grasp basic arguments. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:883224804] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>How does the world benefit from forcing women to carry to term when they don't want to? So we can have millions of children that grow up in poverty, to abusive/neglectful parents, or in orphanages? But hey at least they were brought into this world and are aware of their suffering! </quote> ITT: Every child that was ever going to be aborted would have had a shitty life.</quote> No one has ever said that. That wasn't his point at all. You're failing to grasp basic arguments.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:51:43 PM #341:	That_Happened posted... Good old "Christianity is the truth, and no religion is hated more unfairly than Christianity" Vindris_SNH. Surely God has NOTHING to do with your views on abortion. The fuck outta here. Just because I'm a professed Christian doesn't mean my views on abortion are based around my religious beliefs. That_Happened posted... HOLY SHIT THAT'S POSSIBLE VINDRIS?! Yes Mr. Happened, that's possible. Have a nice day. ~~the fuck outta here~~ --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883224918] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>Good old "Christianity is the truth, and no religion is hated more unfairly than Christianity" Vindris_SNH. Surely God has NOTHING to do with your views on abortion. The fuck outta here.</quote> Just because I'm a professed Christian doesn't mean my views on abortion are based around my religious beliefs. <cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>HOLY SHIT THAT'S POSSIBLE VINDRIS?!</quote> Yes Mr. Happened, that's possible. Have a nice day. the fuck outta here</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 07/19/17 5:51:56 PM #342:	Vindris_SNH posted... (of course you may have exceptions for rape and death from child birth). Then you are a hypocrite. If innocent human lives matter so much, then how can you be ok with abortion in cases of rape. You can commit abhorrent murder if you didn't consent to sex? That makes it sound less about life being precious and more about teaching people a lesson for having sex and getting pregnant. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:883224930] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>(of course you may have exceptions for rape and death from child birth).</quote> Then you are a hypocrite. If innocent human lives matter so much, then how can you be ok with abortion in cases of rape. You can commit abhorrent murder if you didn't consent to sex? That makes it sound less about life being precious and more about teaching people a lesson for having sex and getting pregnant.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Deadpool_18 07/19/17 5:53:28 PM #344:	Let people do what they want with their own bodies. Shit. --- Jet fuel can't melt steel beams. <cite>Deadpool_18 posted [p:883225020] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote>Let people do what they want with their own bodies. Shit.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:54:35 PM #346:	hockeybub89 posted... Vindris_SNH posted... (of course you may have exceptions for rape and death from child birth). Then you are a hypocrite. If innocent human lives matter so much, then how can you be ok with abortion in cases of rape. You can commit abhorrent murder if you didn't consent to sex? That makes it sound less about life being precious and more about teaching people a lesson for having sex and getting pregnant. Whoa WHOA, I said YOU may have exceptions. I'm not saying that's what I believe. I mean that it would be better to limit rape laws to ONLY rape and protection the mother's life from death during child birth. Sorry I know I worded that poorly. In my idea of a perfect world abortion would be illegal, with the only exception being defense of the mother's life, and that point it'd be up to the mother. The baby lives or she lives. It's self defense in that case. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883225090] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote>(of course you may have exceptions for rape and death from child birth).</quote> Then you are a hypocrite. If innocent human lives matter so much, then how can you be ok with abortion in cases of rape. You can commit abhorrent murder if you didn't consent to sex? That makes it sound less about life being precious and more about teaching people a lesson for having sex and getting pregnant.</quote> Whoa WHOA, I said YOU may have exceptions. I'm not saying that's what I believe. I mean that it would be better to limit rape laws to ONLY rape and protection the mother's life from death during child birth. Sorry I know I worded that poorly. In my idea of a perfect world abortion would be illegal, with the only exception being defense of the mother's life, and that point it'd be up to the mother. The baby lives or she lives. It's self defense in that case.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:56:04 PM #347:	Asherlee10 posted... we now have confirmation that your beliefs are rooted in religion Vindris_SNH posted... That_Happened posted... Good old "Christianity is the truth, and no religion is hated more unfairly than Christianity" Vindris_SNH. Surely God has NOTHING to do with your views on abortion. The fuck outta here. Just because I'm a professed Christian doesn't mean my views on abortion are based around my religious beliefs. That_Happened posted... HOLY SHIT THAT'S POSSIBLE VINDRIS?! Yes Mr. Happened, that's possible. Have a nice day. ~~the fuck outta here~~ --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883225178] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>we now have confirmation that your beliefs are rooted in religion</quote> <cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>Good old "Christianity is the truth, and no religion is hated more unfairly than Christianity" Vindris_SNH. Surely God has NOTHING to do with your views on abortion. The fuck outta here.</quote> Just because I'm a professed Christian doesn't mean my views on abortion are based around my religious beliefs. <cite>That_Happened posted...</cite> <quote>HOLY SHIT THAT'S POSSIBLE VINDRIS?!</quote> Yes Mr. Happened, that's possible. Have a nice day. the fuck outta here</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Vindris_SNH 07/19/17 5:58:12 PM #349:	Asherlee10 posted... Your "value of humans" is an emotional appeal argument which is rooted in religion. Oh wow, I didn't realize maternal instincts were religious. Thanks for enlightening me. --- glitteringfairy: Just build the damn wall ThyCorndog: and how exactly will that stop the mexican space program from orbital dropping illegal immigrants? <cite>Vindris_SNH posted [p:883225306] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Your "value of humans" is an emotional appeal argument which is rooted in religion.</quote> Oh wow, I didn't realize maternal instincts were religious. Thanks for enlightening me.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 07/19/17 6:00:27 PM #350:	Vindris_SNH posted... hockeybub89 posted... How does the world benefit from forcing women to carry to term when they don't want to? So we can have millions of children that grow up in poverty, to abusive/neglectful parents, or in orphanages? But hey at least they were brought into this world and are aware of their suffering! ITT: Every child that was ever going to be aborted would have had a shitty life. Many do, but that is not what I am saying. Is it really the ethical, responsible thing to do to force women that cannot support a child to have one? "I know this will bankrupt you or that you are a drug addict or a 16 year old with no job or said you hate children, but you had sex and this is the consequence! And you better do a good job or we will throw the kid in the foster system and you in jail!" --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:883225431] in Why isnt a... [t:75567333]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vindris_SNH posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>How does the world benefit from forcing women to carry to term when they don't want to? So we can have millions of children that grow up in poverty, to abusive/neglectful parents, or in orphanages? But hey at least they were brought into this world and are aware of their suffering! </quote> ITT: Every child that was ever going to be aborted would have had a shitty life.</quote> Many do, but that is not what I am saying. Is it really the ethical, responsible thing to do to force women that cannot support a child to have one? "I know this will bankrupt you or that you are a drug addict or a 16 year old with no job or said you hate children, but you had sex and this is the consequence! And you better do a good job or we will throw the kid in the foster system and you in jail!"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Why isnt abortion considered murder/killing an unborn child? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Why isnt abortion considered murder/killing an unborn child?