Poll of the Day > this is why socialism will never work

(+) Yeah! (+)

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socialists btfo

checkmate atheists
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This is why your picture is irrelevant: http://www.businessinsider.com/fred-destin-artificial-intelligence-will-wipe-out-white-collar-jobs-2017-6

Seems like you can't make up your mind whether no one works under socialism, or everyone is a slave under socialism.
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I, too, base my political beliefs on cartoons.
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Duck-I-Says posted...

This is why your picture is irrelevant: http://www.businessinsider.com/fred-destin-artificial-intelligence-will-wipe-out-white-collar-jobs-2017-6

The tech singularity is at most a few decades away

Socialism doesn't work because "True socialism" where everyone is equal will never ever happen. Someone will always regulate things, and they'll be just as corrupt as any other governmental system.
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Socialism doesn't work because it doesn't provide any motivation to do better. It does the opposite.. Why should I work hard when it's easier to do as little as possible and leech of those who do? You know what? I'm going to do as little as possible because i get no reward for going above and beyond.
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OhhhJa posted...

Duck-I-Says posted...

This is why your picture is irrelevant: http://www.businessinsider.com/fred-destin-artificial-intelligence-will-wipe-out-white-collar-jobs-2017-6

The tech singularity is at most a few decades away

Wow you are young.

thebestestbest posted...

OhhhJa posted...

Duck-I-Says posted...

This is why your picture is irrelevant: http://www.businessinsider.com/fred-destin-artificial-intelligence-will-wipe-out-white-collar-jobs-2017-6

The tech singularity is at most a few decades away

Wow you are young.

?

If you're implying im naive then you must be implying the same thing about respected people in the science/tech field that say the same thing

socialism and communism are literally the exact same thing and we ALREADY TRIED THAT

Can't cuck the tuck
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More like brocialism

It's taking jobs today.

Jobs are disapearing faster than ever before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSKi8HfcxEk

Also note "socialism" != "socialist policies" some people want today alongside capitalism.

Eventually we will have to resort to flat out socialisim as ai robots take every job there is.

As usual, people will refuse to change to system to fit the times.
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DirtBasedSoap posted...

socialism and communism are literally the exact same thing and we ALREADY TRIED THAT

Can't cuck the tuck

ive always said that socialism is communism lite. either way it is a step in the wrong direction.
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The US is already a socialist country that's in bed with corporations. Get rid of the corporate protection and things would improve.

Things that are socialist: highways and roads, police, fire departments, public libraries, military, postal service, public sanitation, garbage collection, public schools, farm subsidies, social security, Medicaid, disability payments, unemployment insurance, street cleaning, Amtrak, state and national parks, national weather service, department of energy, department of agriculture, public transportation, corporate bailouts...
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Doctor Foxx posted...

The US is already a socialist country that's in bed with corporations. Get rid of the corporate protection and things would improve.

nobody ever said the US was perfect, just that it is the best

which is true
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Troll_Police_ posted...

nobody ever said the US was perfect, just that it is the best

which is true

You also said

Troll_Police_ posted...

ive always said that socialism is communism lite. either way it is a step in the wrong direction.

The US is socialist (and capitalist... Mixed economy is the term I believe). You would not have a good life in the US without the myriad socialist systems. Socialism has been good for Americans and their quality of life. Just far too concerned with corporate lobbying and interests to give its citizens things like universal health care or subsidized higher education.
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Funkdamental posted...

Seems like you can't make up your mind whether no one works under socialism, or everyone is a slave under socialism.

It's because the arguments are for propaganda purposes. Not actual discussion of policy.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

socialism and communism are literally the exact same thing and we ALREADY TRIED THAT

Can't cuck the tuck

Well you're factually wrong.

Doctor Foxx posted...

The US is socialist (and capitalist... Mixed economy is the term I believe). You would not have a good life in the US without the myriad socialist systems. Socialism has been good for Americans and their quality of life. Just far too concerned with corporate lobbying and interests to give its citizens things like universal health care or subsidized higher education.

making so many false assumptions here its fucking mind boggling, so lets just work our way down the list.

You would not have a good life in the US without the myriad of socialist systems

just straight up not true. if we are assuming that america got rid of these programs overnight you act as though nobody would have the thought to come up with anything else.

dont get me wrong, its not surprising that a liberal thinks socialism is the only solution to every problem that ever existed, but that doesnt make you any less wrong.

Socialism has been good for Americans and their quality of life

all of that is debatable. Sure, its great for the people who want to leech, but those who are actually willing to work their part always end up paying more in than they get out.

Just far too concerned with corporate lobbying and interests to give its citizens things like universal health care or subsidized higher education.

again, its not surprising that you think socialism is the end all be all solution to every problem that ever existed, but youre still wrong. socialism is just a step toward communism, and that is ALWAYS a step in the wrong direction.



seriously, is it that fucking hard to have a conversation with someone without the assumption that they already agree with your point of view? you talk as though everyone already agrees that socialism is the answer. its the same sort of ear plugging loud humming shit that the lefts done for years. in your mind the right just straight up does not exist, does it?
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Troll_Police_ posted...

again, its not surprising that you think socialism is the end all be all solution to every problem that ever existed, but youre still wrong. socialism is just a step toward communism, and that is ALWAYS a step in the wrong direction.

Doctor Foxx posted...

Things that are socialist: highways and roads, police, fire departments, public libraries, military, postal service, public sanitation, garbage collection, public schools, farm subsidies, social security, Medicaid, disability payments, unemployment insurance, street cleaning, Amtrak, state and national parks, national weather service, department of energy, department of agriculture, public transportation, corporate bailouts...

Are those all wrong, and detract from quality of life, or what

You're confused on what socialism is.
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This makes me remember that western Europe is totally miserable and bankrupt. Oh, wait... There are more poor people in America.
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Socialism, Communisim and even Capitalism will never truly "work" because they only work on paper. Without the human element.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

This makes me remember that western Europe is totally miserable and bankrupt. Oh, wait... There are more poor people in America.

A large majority of Europe spends more money than they make. They're almost entirely supported by Germany, which is heavily capitalist.

Even when socialism is self sustaining, which is rare, progress almost goes to a standstill, because almost nobody is motivated to improve.
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Zareth posted...

Socialism doesn't work because "True socialism" where everyone is equal will never ever happen. Someone will always regulate things, and they'll be just as corrupt as any other governmental system.

that's why we should seek to abolish all unnecessary hierarchical relationships, including the government. it's the core thesis of anarchism which is compatible with socialism in theory
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Yellow posted...

Eventually we will have to resort to flat out socialisim as ai robots take every job there is.

We'll still need people to maintain the robots.
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TigerTycoon posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

This makes me remember that western Europe is totally miserable and bankrupt. Oh, wait... There are more poor people in America.

A large majority of Europe spends more money than they make. They're almost entirely supported by Germany, which is heavily capitalist.

Even when socialism is self sustaining, which is rare, progress almost goes to a standstill, because almost nobody is motivated to improve.

what do you mean progress? like an iphone? those things don't make people happier you know
if you're talking about endless GDP growth that is the most unsustainable idea in the world
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TigerTycoon posted...

A large majority of Europe spends more money than they make. They're almost entirely supported by Germany, which is heavily capitalist.

Wait but doesn't the US spend significantly more than it takes in tax revenue? And have a huuuuuge debt?

The US debt is nearly 20 Trillion dollars. That's over $61,000 in debt for every US citizen

Whoops i messed up my math but the debt clock website exists so just check that

http://www.usdebtclock.org
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Blue_Thunder posted...

Yellow posted...

Eventually we will have to resort to flat out socialisim as ai robots take every job there is.

We'll still need people to maintain the robots.

robots can maintain the robots

"but who maintains those robots?"


it's robots all the way down
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Philoktetes posted...

except there are people that see the tiny or non-existent shares that are gotten from the right hand door and realize they can have 10-100x more if they just work hard and use the other door instead.

the real reason it doesn't work is that it's a fundamental property of society that a relatively small percentage will be the best at what they do and end up producing 85% of the output of their respective field. which is a good thing, and if you forcibly prevent that from happening, your society will fail horribly at being productive.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

TigerTycoon posted...

A large majority of Europe spends more money than they make. They're almost entirely supported by Germany, which is heavily capitalist.

Wait but doesn't the US spend significantly more than it takes in tax revenue? And have a huuuuuge debt?

The US debt is nearly 20 Trillion dollars. That's over $61,000 in debt for every US citizen

Whoops i messed up my math but the debt clock website exists so just check that

http://www.usdebtclock.org

You speak as if endless debt is acceptable.

The main reason the U.S. hasn't become Greece is because it's a world power. It's "too big to fail".

And the U.S. collects more tax than almost any other country (if not the most), it has a massive over spending problem that corrupt politicians refuse to fix.
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Sahuagin posted...

except there are people that see the tiny or non-existent shares that are gotten from the right hand door and realize they can have 10-100x more if they just work hard and use the other door instead.

And for those that can't work or would see the most benefit from not working (elderly, disabled, parents, students, volunteers), thank goodness they're not left to starve.

Of course most people are going to pick doing some work for getting more than the bare minimum. Anyone that has been on unemployment (or just been unemployed) for months will tell you that people do not like to be inactive and unproductive for extended periods.
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Philoktetes posted...

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TigerTycoon posted...

You speak as if endless debt is acceptable.

I do not. It is not acceptable. But that debt is there despite offering far fewer social assistance programs than more socialist nations. You point to poor European nations, well, the US is beyond broke. The debt just hasn't been asked to be paid off.

TigerTycoon posted...

The main reason the U.S. hasn't become Greece is because it's a world power. It's "too big to fail".

And the U.S. collects more tax than almost any other country (if not the most), it has a massive over spending problem that corrupt politicians refuse to fix.

Don't worry, eventually China will be able to collect that debt. It will be good times in the US. And yes, the US has a huge overspending issue and undertaxing issue on businesses, and corporate lobbyists will keep it that way.
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The truest form of communism currently in the world, are the Artisan Towns
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Socialism does not need to abolish competition nor does it need to remove the purpose or advantage of work, it can actually make people more productive.

How?


Simple, socialism can remove the basic needs (Food/shelter/medical care), while not providing entertainment, quality items, better food, and personalized items/decorations etc.

Aha!! you say....people are inherently lazy and will live in squalor rather then work!!

Not true, imagine if whenever you worked, you were actually getting something you WANTED with the money/time you spent. Instead of over 50% of Americans barely getting by and putting all the money they make into rent and other expenses, with very little left over at all (if any), EVERYONE would have resources to spend on things they actually want, better, high quality food, decorations and personal items for where they live etc.

Yeah, there will be corruption. Yes, some people will get more then others, but.....seriously people, have you looked at how many Americans live right now?

This may sound snobbish, but it's not. I have worked my whole life at high paying jobs mainly, saved a ton, and usually had friends who were educated and made decent money. I saw life from the most poor perspective as a very young kid, but after age 11 or so, I had enough money to take care of myself and live well.

Recently I had a roomate that I rented my downstairs to, and she freaking works for the goverment, making about 50k a year. That is considered a fairly good job. She NEVER has any extra money, had to borrow money from me all the time, lives pay check to paycheck and eats absolute crap because it's all she can afford (When living here I at least made her decent meals).

But...that is just one person right?

Nope, I saw her friends and co-workers, many of them, and .....they all live like that.

Look, I keep 2 100 bills in a slot in my wallet just in case I run out of cash. She needed money for gas once (he car ran out of it), and I didn't have any 20's left, so I grabbed one of them for her. The idea that I had $200 backup money in my wallet all the time blew her mind.

This, I guess, is not normal for a majority of Americans. They live based on what they make, often have credit card debt they can't pay off (and student loans they are paying back like in my roomates case (along with medical bills she has to make payments on or they would garnish her wages again).

That, from what I can tell, is the freaking NORM!

People are living paycheck to paycheck barely keeping a roof over their heads. Socialism would just provide that for everyone and give people a chance to actually get something (besides survival) for their time and effort.

My wife also literally died because hospitals where too full of people with the flu to admit her to the one nearby with dialysis. You may say....ahh thats due to socialised medicine...if most of them couldn't go to the hospital because they didn't have insurance she would have lived. True, but only ify ou stopped taking everyone into the emergency room and allowed people to just die on the street. The actual solution is to build enough hospitals for everyone so nobody gets turned away (or eventually sent to another freaking state like my wife was....2 weeks later).

Education, Medical and Childcare should all be free in this country. Housing should be provided for a very low amount or free as well (free in that you work a set # of hours OR pay a small amount to live there per month...you don't get to live somewhere and do nothing).

Such places to live would be small, and not very private (you have your own 4 walls, but it's one room (maybe with individual bathrooms with a small shower, so 2 rooms). You can upgrade a bit if you have kids or more then 1 adult is living in the same space. Anyone working could afford a much better place to live though.

Rent for other places to live would be lower as well.
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Smarkil posted...

socialists btfo

checkmate atheists

one doesn't mean you believe the other
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Blue_Thunder posted...

Yellow posted...

Eventually we will have to resort to flat out socialisim as ai robots take every job there is.

We'll still need people to maintain the robots.

If we needed just as many people to control the robots, no one would use robots.
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Yellow posted...

Blue_Thunder posted...

Yellow posted...

Eventually we will have to resort to flat out socialisim as ai robots take every job there is.

We'll still need people to maintain the robots.

If we needed just as many people to control the robots, no one would use robots.

I said nothing about controlling them, though. People still need to program them (which requires new jobs).
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Blue_Thunder posted...

Yellow posted...

Blue_Thunder posted...

Yellow posted...

Eventually we will have to resort to flat out socialisim as ai robots take every job there is.

We'll still need people to maintain the robots.

If we needed just as many people to control the robots, no one would use robots.

I said nothing about controlling them, though. People still need to program them (which requires new jobs).

Uh... programming teams aren't that big. Probably not a single person but you're talking hundreds nationwide, maybe low thousands, not millions.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Blue_Thunder posted...

Yellow posted...

Blue_Thunder posted...

Yellow posted...

Eventually we will have to resort to flat out socialisim as ai robots take every job there is.

We'll still need people to maintain the robots.

If we needed just as many people to control the robots, no one would use robots.

I said nothing about controlling them, though. People still need to program them (which requires new jobs).

Uh... programming teams aren't that big. Probably not a single person but you're talking hundreds nationwide, maybe low thousands, not millions.

My point being that robots can't perform all jobs.
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Blue_Thunder posted...

My point being that robots can't perform all jobs.

You can't say that with any certainty. We might reach a point where AI can outperform humans in every occupation.

Duck-I-Says posted...

Blue_Thunder posted...

My point being that robots can't perform all jobs.

You can't say that with any certainty. We might reach a point where AI can outperform humans in every occupation.

Can't imagine a robot therapist being better than a human one.
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Blue_Thunder posted...

Can't imagine a robot therapist being better than a human one.

Then you have a serious lack of imagination. Hell I can imagine an AGI that's dramatically better than a human therapist, especially if it's a superintelligence with a complete understanding of the human brain.

Duck-I-Says posted...

Blue_Thunder posted...

Can't imagine a robot therapist being better than a human one.

Then you have a serious lack of imagination. Hell I can imagine an AGI that's dramatically better than a human therapist, especially if it's a superintelligence with a complete understanding of the human brain.

Well, until that actually happens, I'll stick to human ones.
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Blue_Thunder posted...

Well, until that actually happens, I'll stick to human ones.

Hey that's super, but totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Duck-I-Says posted...

Blue_Thunder posted...

Well, until that actually happens, I'll stick to human ones.

Hey that's super, but totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Sure it's relevant. It could be hundreds of years before those kinds of robots are in use.
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Blue_Thunder posted...

Duck-I-Says posted...

Blue_Thunder posted...

Well, until that actually happens, I'll stick to human ones.

Hey that's super, but totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Sure it's relevant. It could be hundreds of years before those kinds of robots are in use.

Doubt it

If we wanted to we have the technology and resources to use robots to do about 95% of all work already, and allow our current population to spend it's time on creative en devours. A small percentage would need to be in supervisory positions. Part of the creative jobs would be actually writing code for the robots as well. Those that did such jobs would be compensated with some form of privledges etc.

We already could do that, but yeah, it's not gonna happen. Why? Cause the rich already basically have that, and they are the ones in power (they use humans to do everything, and that is far easier with the current system, then switching over to a robot system that everyone has access to.

We could easily invest in completely automated transport systems that are free for everyone, food prep stations that can make whatever food you want (And since the farms are run/maintained by robots, the food is free as well), seriously we have the resources for everyone to pretty much kick back and be kings at this point. The real kings though, don't wanna share.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Are those all wrong, and detract from quality of life, or what

You're confused on what socialism is.

none of those things HAVE to be socialized, and the idea that they do is just plain foolish. i have no issue with private police, private fire departments, paid subscription/toll roads and so on and so on. privatization always works out better than government regulation for those who are actually willing to work.
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