Current Events > can the 2nd amendment really protect us from the gov?

(+) Yeah! (+)

When our founding fathers created the 2nd amendment, they did so with the purpose to give its citizens a fighting chance against tyranny.

How practical is that today though? What happens when a tyrant takes over the gov and commits crimes against it citizens?


Now think about this. Our gov has the capability of sending out drones and other autonomous robots to kill its citizens. They can use chemical weapons that suffocate its targets and you cant do anything about it (besides shoot yourself in the head to prevent death by suffocation). What good is a gun when it is out-powered by modern technology?

Sure. A gun can be used to protect yourself from other citizens. And thats about it. Cops do most of the heavy lifting in regards to crimes.

And forget tyrants.

What about Artificial Intelligence in the wrong hands? like a computer hacker motivated by religious scriptures or an extremist of the opposite party. I feel like guns give you fake sense of security because when s**t hits the fan, your guns are useless. I mean, who brings a gun to a computer fight?

scary times and its only going to get worse. terrorist attacks will become more sophisticated as technology becomes more accessible. we are fish in a barrel.
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exactly. which is why the second amendment needs to go. but we need to be under a liberal government. at the moment we need any protection we can get against the gop.
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cerealbox760 posted...

And forget tyrants.

This was the only part of the post I read, so I'm assuming you're talking about the true goal of the Umbrella Corporation in regards to the T-Virus. While Tyrants are extremely durable, they do have a weakness in that the mutation exposes their heart to the open air, which does in fact make them vulnerable to gunfire. So in shirt, the 2nd Amendment does really protect us against zombies.
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Exposed heart is just a flaw. Not all of them had that
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metralo posted...

exactly. which is why the second amendment needs to go. but we need to be under a liberal government. at the moment we need any protection we can get against the gop.

Sounds like you support killing people over differing political believes.
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Irony posted...

Exposed heart is just a flaw. Not all of them had that

Some of them you have to date for a few months before breaking up with them over text. After that, their heart is exposed and partially broken.
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I always found it oddly contradictory;
"We need guns to fight back if the government gets too corrupt."
"The government has missiles and drones and expert snipers who can kill you before a second breath."
If the government is the black-ops wielding, ultra-elite killing machine people say, how is them owning an assault rifle going to save them? I mean, hell, the government has tanks and helicopters, too.

I'd be one hell of a fight, a lot of neckbeard armchair generals think that the Gov would just stomp and "use chemical weapons and kill us all with drones" which is probably the stupidest thing I've read. A bunch of third world countries btfo of the USA military regularly while their fighters are living in caves and sleeping on the ground. I'm sure typical civilians specially in the South where a lot of people are ex-military and form their own militias can hold their own for a long ass time.
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Dash_Harber posted...

If the government is the black-ops wielding, ultra-elite killing machine people say, how is them owning an assault rifle going to save them? I mean, hell, the government has tanks and helicopters, too.

Tanks, Helis, and snipers isn't doing them any good in the Middle East is it?
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CEs_EFG posted...

I'd be one hell of a fight, a lot of neckbeard armchair generals think that the Gov would just stomp and "use chemical weapons and kill us all with drones" which is probably the stupidest thing I've read. A bunch of third world countries btfo of the USA military regularly while their fighters are living in caves and sleeping on the ground. I'm sure typical civilians specially in the South where a lot of people are ex-military and form their own militias can hold their own for a long ass time.

I wasn't saying they would, I'm saying that the people who say "we need guns to fight back" are also generally the people who believe that the government is capable of that level of violence.

Dash_Harber posted...

I wasn't saying they would, I'm saying that the people who say "we need guns to fight back" are also generally the people who believe that the government is capable of that level of violence.

doesn't matter if they believe the latter, guns are important because it makes the Gov think twice about pulling some bullshit and that's the whole point of the Amendment
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CEs_EFG posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

I wasn't saying they would, I'm saying that the people who say "we need guns to fight back" are also generally the people who believe that the government is capable of that level of violence.

doesn't matter if they believe the latter, guns are important because it makes the Gov think twice about pulling some bullshit and that's the whole point of the Amendment

You are completely ignoring what I'm saying.

I never said they were right or that they were wrong, simply that those two ideas contradict each other and it's odd that such individuals can reconcile them.

Heh. If say in a hypothetical scenario the government does come rolling in tanks and shit, will you be willing to become a guerilla fighter sleeping in caves or will you just surrender to preserve yourself?

I'm willing to bet most CEmen will just surrender if they're really staring down the barrel of a tank turret.

do_ob_tpkillr posted...

Heh. If say in a hypothetical scenario the government does come rolling in tanks and shit, will you be willing to become a guerilla fighter sleeping in caves or will you just surrender to preserve yourself?

I'm willing to bet most CEmen will just surrender if they're really staring down the barrel of a tank turret.

I think there is more options than "become a radical" or "become a mindless drone".

Lmao @ the gun obsessed neckbeards who think they would last an entire week or longer against any organised miltary, let alone the american military
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Lol @ ignorant foreigners that chime in on shit they know nothing about.

Must be a day that ends in y.
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Oh, im sorry. Im australian and therefore im wrong. Therefore american citizens are equal to an organised military


Lmao are you high?
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Nobody cares what you think.

And fucking lol at your edit.

Learn how to type, Jesus.
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good job proving me right, clown
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Even if it can't anymore we have the right to stand up for ourselves.

Everyone should listen to Kennedy's secret societies speech and Eisenhower's farewell address. I mean you got two former presidents pretty much talking about the "Illuminati" or higher power pulling the strings trying to affect our way of life.
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lilJoe457 posted...

. I mean you got two former presidents pretty much talking about the "Illuminati" or higher power pulling the strings trying to affect our way of life.

looooooooooooooool
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lilJoe457 posted...

Even if it can't anymore we have the right to stand up for ourselves.

not to mention in the off chance we get invaded. The locals can go shootin too. Not just our military.
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Better a slim chance than none.

I'm a liberal and believe that more liberals should actually be more supportive of the 2nd amendment. Especially for that reason. Liberals are rightfully scared of how corrupt our government is getting. If I goes really bad, then what do you expect to do? You think protests and voting are going to work? Yeah right. I'm totally sure the government who obviously doesn't give a shit about you is going to start listening to you then.
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Southernfatman posted...

Better a slim chance than none.

I'm a liberal and believe that more liberals should actually be more supportive of the 2nd amendment. Especially for that reason. Liberals are rightfully scared of how corrupt our government is getting. If I goes really bad, then what do you expect to do? You think protests and voting are going to work? Yeah right. I'm totally sure the government who obviously doesn't give a shit about you is going to start listening to you then.

The problem is that the government wouldn't even need to fight an actual war. They control both vital supplies and the power grid. They could simply cut off all medicine and food and power without ever actually have to engage. Not only that, but they have perfect, constant recon of the area, as well as records of every building and structure, tunnels, supply areas, topography, etc. Everyone seems to forget the logistics part of warfare, but it would be absolutely vital in a US invasion, and the government controls all of it.

Dash_Harber posted...

Southernfatman posted...

Better a slim chance than none.

I'm a liberal and believe that more liberals should actually be more supportive of the 2nd amendment. Especially for that reason. Liberals are rightfully scared of how corrupt our government is getting. If I goes really bad, then what do you expect to do? You think protests and voting are going to work? Yeah right. I'm totally sure the government who obviously doesn't give a shit about you is going to start listening to you then.

The problem is that the government wouldn't even need to fight an actual war. They control both vital supplies and the power grid. They could simply cut off all medicine and food and power without ever actually have to engage. Not only that, but they have perfect, constant recon of the area, as well as records of every building and structure, tunnels, supply areas, topography, etc. Everyone seems to forget the logistics part of warfare, but it would be absolutely vital in a US invasion, and the government controls all of it.

no, the civilians have guns and therefore they can fight guerilla warfare, which will topple the US military because what can the government with all its stealth bombers, elite troops and control of every facet of the country do to stop some neckbeards living in a cave?
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There's a significant portion of people who will support the government no matter what, so there's also opposition from your fellow citizens.

Rika_Furude posted...

no, the civilians have guns and therefore they can fight guerilla warfare, which will topple the US military because what can the government with all its stealth bombers, elite troops and control of every facet of the country do to stop some neckbeards living in a cave?

was this sarcasm? because it makes you look pretty damn ignorant.

TIL that a bunch of Asians with riffles beat back the American military
TIL that a bunch of extremist in a cave ended up pushing back the American military
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for one thing the US military wouldnt stand for blatantly killing civilians like that on their home soil especially when they could be fighting their own family, friends or neighbors and with that youd easily lose most of the military who do have tanks, jets and destroyers. it would be a coup 1000x worse than what we saw in turkey. with that youre also dealing with a potential guerilla force of 1million (and thats assuring just 1% of armed US citizens rose up) who would use hit and run tactics and ambushes. a full scale war would also be overly damaging to the US' infrastructure of which theres no point in commanding if its all just a pile of scorched rubble.

youre also talking about controlling a country via violence who was born out of revolution and defying opposition with citizens who have had "freedom" ingrained into their brains since the beginning.

as far as the concept of why needing a gun in general- a gun also symbolizes opposition. its not so much as using a gun itself on a robot or using it to fend of nerv gas, but to confront those who wish to do you harm be it with a gun, bomb or some other means. someone has to have built those robots, someone has to have ordered it, someone has to have their finger on a button somewhere. thats where guns and other means come in. its not like youd be fighting skynet.
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Dark_Spiret posted...

for one thing the US military wouldnt stand for blatantly killing civilians like that on their home soil especially when they could be fighting their own family, friends or neighbors and with that youd easily lose most of the military who do have tanks, jets and destroyers. it would be a coup 1000x worse than what we saw in turkey. with that youre also dealing with a potential guerilla force of 1million (and thats assuring just 1% of armed US citizens rose up) who would use hit and run tactics and ambushes. a full scale war would also be overly damaging to the US' infrastructure of which theres no point in commanding if its all just a pile of scorched rubble.

This pretty much hits the nail in the head.
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CEs_EFG posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

no, the civilians have guns and therefore they can fight guerilla warfare, which will topple the US military because what can the government with all its stealth bombers, elite troops and control of every facet of the country do to stop some neckbeards living in a cave?

was this sarcasm? because it makes you look pretty damn ignorant.

TIL that a bunch of Asians with riffles beat back the American military
TIL that a bunch of extremist in a cave ended up pushing back the American military

Yeah a hillbilly in his rusty ute is a good match for stealth bombers and navy SEALS
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Ehh, it makes em nervous enough.

Obviously you're not going to take a tank out with small arms but managing a semi-successful guerrilla war? Not entirely implausible.
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Rika_Furude posted...

Yeah a hillbilly in his rusty ute is a good match for stealth bombers and navy SEALS

This is why we've secured Afghanistan right? That's how war works eh? Our best 'unit' against theirs?

Yeah, if the govt. decided to conduct a genocidal cleansing we'd all be fucked . . .
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We'd have no chance. The government undoubtedly has weapons we don't even know about. :v And people have grown too fat and complacent. It'd be like pigs to slaughter. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

We'd have no chance. The government undoubtedly has weapons we don't even know about. :v And people have grown too fat and complacent. It'd be like pigs to slaughter. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

A statement made by someone who doesn't understand anything about war.

I spent 5 years as an army green beret. With the trunk of gear I have in my garage, my rifle and my pistol I would do exactly what I was trained to do. Give me 10 to 15 men with no training, only a gun and some ammo and I'll teach them to fight unconventionally. I could train an afghan booger eater who can't read or speak English how to fight. I could do it to an American.

You take that one example and multiply it over thousands of special forces and special operation veterans and the guerrilla force would be impressive and hard to defeat, even with the latest technology.

And that's not to say how many active duty operators upon receiving some bogus mission to go kill civilians wouldn't walk into their arms room, sign out all their guns, and then disappear.

OpheliaAdenade posted...

We'd have no chance. The government undoubtedly has weapons we don't even know about. :v And people have grown too fat and complacent. It'd be like pigs to slaughter. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

It all depends on the military, if the government offers all enlisted and former enlisted soldiers a certain degree of freedom for them and their families we'd be screwed as they'd have no problem turning on their own citizens if the people they care about will be safe. However, it'd mean nothing in the end because our enemies would relish the chance to attack us during something like this.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

Yeah a hillbilly in his rusty ute is a good match for stealth bombers and navy SEALS

This is why we've secured Afghanistan right? That's how war works eh? Our best 'unit' against theirs?

Yeah, if the govt. decided to conduct a genocidal cleansing we'd all be fucked . . .

Because the US isnt trying to take over afghanistan lmao
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BalisticWarri0r posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

We'd have no chance. The government undoubtedly has weapons we don't even know about. :v And people have grown too fat and complacent. It'd be like pigs to slaughter. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

A statement made by someone who doesn't understand anything about war.

I spent 5 years as an army green beret. With the trunk of gear I have in my garage, my rifle and my pistol I would do exactly what I was trained to do. Give me 10 to 15 men who no training, only a gun and some ammo and I'll teach them to fight unconventionally. I could train an afghan booger eater who can't read how to fight or speak English. I could do it to an American.

You take that one example and multiply it over thousands of special forces and special operation veterans and the guerrilla force would be impressive and hard to defeat, even with the latest technology.

And that's not to say how many active duty operators upon receiving some bogus mission to go kill civilians wouldn't walk into their arms room, sign out all their guns, and then disappear.

Delusion.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

BalisticWarri0r posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

We'd have no chance. The government undoubtedly has weapons we don't even know about. :v And people have grown too fat and complacent. It'd be like pigs to slaughter. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

A statement made by someone who doesn't understand anything about war.

I spent 5 years as an army green beret. With the trunk of gear I have in my garage, my rifle and my pistol I would do exactly what I was trained to do. Give me 10 to 15 men who no training, only a gun and some ammo and I'll teach them to fight unconventionally. I could train an afghan booger eater who can't read how to fight or speak English. I could do it to an American.

You take that one example and multiply it over thousands of special forces and special operation veterans and the guerrilla force would be impressive and hard to defeat, even with the latest technology.

And that's not to say how many active duty operators upon receiving some bogus mission to go kill civilians wouldn't walk into their arms room, sign out all their guns, and then disappear.

Delusion.

What do you know about war?

The only way the military would ever fight against their own people is either the people are revolting for ideals completely counter to the servicemen's own such as an American version of the Bolshevik Revolution, or the military is made up of foreign mercenaries with no ties to the people. Otherwise, the military would largely refuse orders leaving the citizens free to act as they must or even assist them.
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Paragon21XX posted...

The only way the military would ever fight against their own people is either the people are revolting for ideals completely counter to the servicemen's own such as an American version of the Bolshevik Revolution, or the military is made up of foreign mercenaries with no ties to the people. Otherwise, the military would largely refuse orders leaving the citizens free to act as they must or even assist them.

The government has more than just the military.
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Yes. I love when people say the "herp derp the US government will just fucking nuke the whole mainland" bullshit. The government loves power, and what fucking power will they have if everyone in the US is dead and the country is environmentally destroyed beyond repair?
How did the U.S. get fucked so hard by the Viet Cong? How are they still getting fucked by illiterate goat fuckers in the Middle East?
Do you really think everyone in the military is such a brainwashed sheep that they would turn their backs on their own families?
People that think we should just turn in our guns and lay down because "theres no way we could ever abolish da gubment anyways!" sicken me. Theyre unamerican cowards who would gladly bend over for big brother. The same kind of people who wouldve been against the revolutionary war, because "dere aint no way youre gonna beat the British empire!"

thrashmetal14 posted...

Yes. I love when people say the "herp derp the US government will just f***ing nuke the whole mainland" bulls***. The government loves power, and what f***ing power will they have if everyone in the US is dead and the country is environmentally destroyed beyond repair?How did the U.S. get f***ed so hard by the Viet Cong? How are they still getting f***ed by illiterate goat f***ers in the Middle East?Do you really think everyone in the military is such a brainwashed sheep that they would turn their backs on their own families? People that think we should just turn in our guns and lay down because "theres no way we could ever abolish da gubment anyways!" sicken me. Theyre unamerican cowards who would gladly bend over for big brother. The same kind of people who wouldve been against the revolutionary war, because "dere aint no way youre gonna beat the British empire!"

We fought against our own people in the civil war... and we won. :v
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Paragon21XX posted...

The only way the military would ever fight against their own people is either the people are revolting for ideals completely counter to the servicemen's own such as an American version of the Bolshevik Revolution, or the military is made up of foreign mercenaries with no ties to the people. Otherwise, the military would largely refuse orders leaving the citizens free to act as they must or even assist them.

The government has more than just the military.

Without the military, the government loses at least 90% of their combat effectiveness to suppress large scale insurrections, even moreso if they defect. I'd say that essentially guarantees their toppling.
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thrashmetal14 posted...

Yes. I love when people say the "herp derp the US government will just fucking nuke the whole mainland" bullshit. The government loves power, and what fucking power will they have if everyone in the US is dead and the country is environmentally destroyed beyond repair?

They don't need to nuke anything; flip the power switch and cut off supplies and the means of production. This is Siege Warfare 101.

thrashmetal14 posted...

How did the U.S. get fucked so hard by the Viet Cong? How are they still getting fucked by illiterate goat fuckers in the Middle East?

Because those people not only had control over their own countries supplies long before the US arrived, but also because they have flawless intel and the 'homefield advantage'. Wage a war on the US, and that instantly goes away.

thrashmetal14 posted...

Do you really think everyone in the military is such a brainwashed sheep that they would turn their backs on their own families?

No, I think propaganda and the promise of "restoring stability" would do the trick, though.

thrashmetal14 posted...

People that think we should just turn in our guns and lay down because "theres no way we could ever abolish da gubment anyways!" sicken me. Theyre unamerican cowards who would gladly bend over for big brother. The same kind of people who wouldve been against the revolutionary war, because "dere aint no way youre gonna beat the British empire!"

No one is saying that. You are making up a strawman.

Also, the revolutionary war was fought with support from outside powers, too. Don't forget that. It was also fought at a time when the height of military technology could be produced anywhere with decent supplies of iron, wood, and saltpeter. You can't exactly assemble a Blackhawk in your backyard nowadays.

1. Nobody is suggesting we get rid of the 2nd amendment. Dont be ridiculous.

2. Middle eastern terrorists used women, kids, and infrastructure as shields. Failure (in the middle east) wasn't due to a lack of firepower because the military has more than enough firepower to wipe out entire regions without nukes.

3. US citizens will shoot other US citizens. Americans can get crazy. Right now, there are many liberals and conservatives that would shoot each other if they could do it without any repercussions. Both sides would do so in the name of 'freedom". Please refer to the civil war because this has happened before.

Also,

Many of you are missing the point. What im saying is that the 2nd Amendment is becoming outdated because technology is out powering guns. The 2nd Amendment wont be able to protect us because this same technology isn't readily available to its citizens. It distorts the playing-field in favor of the gov.

And in reality, you dont need an entire army to wipe out a populace of Americans. One individual in power is all it takes.
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cerealbox760 posted...

1. Nobody is suggesting we get rid of the 2nd amendment. Dont be ridiculous.

Literally the second post.
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Rika_Furude posted...

Yeah a hillbilly in his rusty ute is a good match for stealth bombers and navy SEALS

I feel like you're projecting, just because you and the nerds around you never held a rifle or go to the gym doesn't mean that there aren't some bad ass fuckers out there specially in the South. A lot of vets keep in fighting shape too
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CEs_EFG posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

Yeah a hillbilly in his rusty ute is a good match for stealth bombers and navy SEALS

I feel like you're projecting, just because you and the nerds around you never held a rifle or go to the gym doesn't mean that there aren't some bad ass fuckers out there specially in the South. A lot of vets keep in fighting shape too

as a tennessee resident, the south is full of fat fucking drug fueled lardbaskets
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

The government has more than just the military

I want to believe you're trolling us, but you seem to seriously believe your dumb ass ideas.
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