Current Events > Director explains why Xenogears' second disk was a montage.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://kotaku.com/the-real-story-behind-xenogears-unfinished-disc-2-1796151112 (Yeah, yeah, I know it's Kotaku)

"Honestly speaking, what had happened is Xenogears as a project was staffed pretty much entirely out of new staff members, young staff members," said Takahashi, speaking through a translator. "Back then, we had the direction of, 'All projects take two years and that's when we need to get it done.' So on top of developing the game, we had to nurture and teach and grow these younger employees. Things like 3D were extremely new, which led to some delays in the schedule. It just wasn’t possible to get everything done."

As it became clear that Takahashi and team weren’t going to hit their deadlines, Square's higher-ups suggested that they just end the game after the first disc, when Fei and his team escape from Solaris.

"It was a rough way to end it, and I felt like if we do that, then the players will not be satisfied," Takahashi told me. "So we had a proposal--I proposed that if we do disc 2 in this way that it turned out to be, we can finish the game with the current number of staff and the current time allotted for the schedule and the remaining budget we have."

So they turned disc 2 of Xenogears into the montage that shipped with today’s game. Instead of playing through events like the world’s mutation and the search for Fei, you just have to watch them. And it was Takahashi's decision—so he could finish the story he wanted to tell rather than cutting it off after the first half.

"I do think my decision was the right one to make," said Takahashi. "Because if we had just ended at Disc 1 it would have been bad."

I've never played this game, but the second disk was seriously just a montage of events? O_o
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Not entirely. You play through the dungeons and get a bare bones overworld. A few boss fights mixed in.
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I honestly never minded the second disk. The game was plenty long, and having the narration of events followed by dungeons kind of served to increased the excitement as the story neared the end. Favorite game of all time.
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A unique game, deserves a play through by anyone.
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Cause whiners are going to whine.
Disk 2 was fine & Xenogears is still the best rpg on ps1

LeadPipeCinche posted...

Cause whiners are going to whine.
Disk 2 was fine & Xenogears is still the best rpg on ps1

Suikoden 2 is better
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Spooking posted...

My favorite game ever. Maybe one day there will be a remake.

Back in the late 90s I was a super big Final Fantasy fan and I was suspicious of any RPG not named Final Fantasy

So when people were on forums talking about how good Xenogears was, I just went "phew".

But then one day I was on Superpope (a Dragon Ball site, back then) and on the forums someone made a Xenogears topic.

In it, a guy who was a big Final Fantasy fan said something like "Xenogears is the best RPG ever, even better than FF..."

I was immediately sold. Here's someone who, like me, is a Final Fantasy fan, and he still thinks Xenogears is the best. I immediately went out to buy it to try it out.

And yeah... it's the best. I've played it over and over.

One day I recorded myself playing through it (with a DVD recorder hooked to the TV) and I now have the entire playthrough on my computer. I've watched it maybe 20 times. I got so attached to the story that it almost became part of my life. I even used some of the philosophy from Xenogears in my philosophy class in college and got an A and was personally congratulated by the professor for my reasoning skills

If I could have one wish from a genie it would be for the Xenogears team to get back together and just re-create Xenogears with all the time they need to make it just so, and then do all the sequels and prequels just like it was planned in Xenogears perfect works

It's really sad that this is never going to happen because of copyright and everything, but my god I wish.

I was really excited when Xenosaga came out but then kind of disappointed that it wasn't "really" part of the story, just kind of a tribute.

I never played Xenoblade either... i heard it's good, but anyway... I feel it just won't be the same.
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Solar_Crimson posted...

Instead of playing through events like the world’s mutation and the search for Fei, you just have to watch them.

So disheartening.
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chrono625 posted...

Solar_Crimson posted...

Instead of playing through events like the world’s mutation and the search for Fei, you just have to watch them.

So disheartening.

It really is.

Xenogears is like Diego Maradona... you just marvel at how good he is then you just curse because of all his problems and drug abuse and you're left wondering how good he could have been if he didn't have all these problems
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It is a fantastic game, but think of how much better it could have been. It's kind of crazy to think that the whole thing was built by noobs
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Always fade out in a montage...

Xenogears' second disc is why I will forever pine for a proper remake to that game, where the address the second disc.
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Disc 2's a bit more lackluster because of the storytelling compromises, but it's not hot garbage or anything. It just has more feelbads coming off Disc 1, which kicked tons of ass. But yeah, seeing a remake of Xenogears in our lifetimes would be sweet.
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Solar_Crimson posted...

As it became clear that Takahashi and team weren’t going to hit their deadlines, Square's higher-ups suggested that they just end the game after the first disc, when Fei and his team escape from Solaris

but dont developers like... create the storyboard long before they start actually developing the game? this wouldnt make any sense

IIRC Xeno was a 6 chapter project with this game being the 5th out of 6 episodes.

If this story and its entirety is the 5th chapter of a 6 part series, why would they suddently just cut the story short considerably? They would need to dedicate a seperate release to covering disk 2, which would mean it would now be 7 episodes

This doesnt add up at all. I have a hard time believing that they were writing this game as they went along

I buy the explanation that the 2nd disk was rushed (as it obviously was), but not that they were gonna cut the story off at disk 1. It seems like what really happened is what I said, where they had all these story ideas from the jump but simply had to abridge the disk 2 version of how the events played out (which makes sense due to disk space)
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bvillebro posted...

Solar_Crimson posted...

As it became clear that Takahashi and team weren’t going to hit their deadlines, Square's higher-ups suggested that they just end the game after the first disc, when Fei and his team escape from Solaris

but dont developers like... create the storyboard long before they start actually developing the game? this wouldnt make any sense

IIRC Xeno was a 6 chapter project with this game being the 5th out of 6 episodes.

If this story and its entirety is the 5th chapter of a 6 part series, why would they suddently just cut the story short considerably? They would need to dedicate a seperate release to covering disk 2, which would mean it would now be 7 episodes

This doesnt add up at all. I have a hard time believing that they were writing this game as they went along

I buy the explanation that the 2nd disk was rushed (as it obviously was), but not that they were gonna cut the story off at disk 1. It seems like what really happened is what I said, where they had all these story ideas from the jump but simply had to abridge the disk 2 version of how the events played out (which makes sense due to disk space)

Why are you injecting your crappy conspiracy theory. The guy is telling you what went wrong jesus.
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bvillebro posted...

Solar_Crimson posted...

As it became clear that Takahashi and team weren’t going to hit their deadlines, Square's higher-ups suggested that they just end the game after the first disc, when Fei and his team escape from Solaris

but dont developers like... create the storyboard long before they start actually developing the game? this wouldnt make any sense

IIRC Xeno was a 6 chapter project with this game being the 5th out of 6 episodes.

If this story and its entirety is the 5th chapter of a 6 part series, why would they suddently just cut the story short considerably? They would need to dedicate a seperate release to covering disk 2, which would mean it would now be 7 episodes

This doesnt add up at all. I have a hard time believing that they were writing this game as they went along

I buy the explanation that the 2nd disk was rushed (as it obviously was), but not that they were gonna cut the story off at disk 1. It seems like what really happened is what I said, where they had all these story ideas from the jump but simply had to abridge the disk 2 version of how the events played out (which makes sense due to disk space)

It's actually pretty simple, IMO

Like you said, the entire story was written in advance, most likely. That's just how it's done.

It actually does make a lot of sense that they would cut off at disk 1. Square is just a company and Xenogears is a product. They expect the product to be out at a certain time so they can make the profit that they most likely had budgeted for in advance in order to meet other expenses, etc. It makes a lot of sense that when the developers were saying that they might not make the deadline, the company told them "well, we don't care, just release it unfinished." There's nothing really that strange about it.
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LeadPipeCinche posted...

Cause whiners are going to whine.
Disk 2 was fine & Xenogears is still the best rpg on ps1

Second disc is NOT fine. Whoever tells you it is - is a blind fanboy. It's not only that the second disc but the game was entirely flawed in other mechanics such as the deathblow system had no real consistent way to leveling up or being learned. The game was shit and deserves a full remake.

You guys wanna shit on Capcom for doing shitty practices and yet here you all are giving Square games so many fucking passes. Should be fucking ashamed.
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youngfossil posted...

bvillebro posted...

Solar_Crimson posted...

As it became clear that Takahashi and team weren’t going to hit their deadlines, Square's higher-ups suggested that they just end the game after the first disc, when Fei and his team escape from Solaris

but dont developers like... create the storyboard long before they start actually developing the game? this wouldnt make any sense

IIRC Xeno was a 6 chapter project with this game being the 5th out of 6 episodes.

If this story and its entirety is the 5th chapter of a 6 part series, why would they suddently just cut the story short considerably? They would need to dedicate a seperate release to covering disk 2, which would mean it would now be 7 episodes

This doesnt add up at all. I have a hard time believing that they were writing this game as they went along

I buy the explanation that the 2nd disk was rushed (as it obviously was), but not that they were gonna cut the story off at disk 1. It seems like what really happened is what I said, where they had all these story ideas from the jump but simply had to abridge the disk 2 version of how the events played out (which makes sense due to disk space)

Why are you injecting your crappy conspiracy theory. The guy is telling you what went wrong jesus.

it isnt 'crappy conspiracy theories', what he says directly conflicts with the perfect works. Both the game (at the ending) and the perfect works confirm that Xenogears is the 5th episode of the series

For him to make this comment 2 decades later just sounds like hes trying to save face and blame the games poor development on "new employees", which is exactly something a developer or any other owner of a company could do and easily get away with

if a game is part of an episodal series, you cant just cut half of episode 5s story. theres no way they ever would have decided to just release Xenogears without the 2nd half of that disc; there isnt nearly enough story in Disk 1 to have gotten a release on its own. Way too many stories left unwrapped

Which is why this makes no sense. But yea, feel free to dismiss this all as "conspiracy theories", and act like everything the developer says is factual (like we havent been through this before with companies saving face)
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That's not the way I remember it.

You guys do know that Xenogears wasn't the only Square title that was rushed during the PS1 era right?
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frozenshock posted...

It actually does make a lot of sense that they would cut off at disk 1. Square is just a company and Xenogears is a product. They expect the product to be out at a certain time so they can make the profit that they most likely had budgeted for in advance in order to meet other expenses, etc. It makes a lot of sense that when the developers were saying that they might not make the deadline, the company told them "well, we don't care, just release it unfinished." There's nothing really that strange about i

if you played xenogears, ending it on disk 1 would be a shitshow. too many unanswered questions, cliffhangers, and storylines still in development to just cut the game off here. we had a new cast member introduced to us less than 10 hours previously, and a new game mechanic (limiters removed) that had JUST been released in Shevat

Why orient the entire gameplay system around this mechanic ultimately being released and all these new deathblow possibilities to be opened, only to end things 10 hours later?

Its obvious by things like Bart getting his gears Anima relic that they clearly had a full 2 disk process readied from the jump. They just overestimated how long disk 2 would take/disk space took up, so they cut the game content and left a coherent story intact

The idea of them proposing disk 2 in this format is pretty ridiculous. its obvious they had more in mind and just reduced. Like why would they propose Anima dungeons 1 and 2 as ways to get Billy and Rico their anima relics... thats so obviously an asspull
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Veggeta X posted...

LeadPipeCinche posted...

Cause whiners are going to whine.
Disk 2 was fine & Xenogears is still the best rpg on ps1

Second disc is NOT fine. Whoever tells you it is - is a blind fanboy. It's not only that the second disc but the game was entirely flawed in other mechanics such as the deathblow system had no real consistent way to leveling up or being learned. The game was shit and deserves a full remake.

You guys wanna shit on Capcom for doing shitty practices and yet here you all are giving Square games so many fucking passes. Should be fucking ashamed.

this, stop being so goddamn guillable over whats obviously bullshit

Square simply fucked up, dont buy this lame 20 years later explanation as anything other than them trying to explain why Xenogears will never get a remake, because it was 'intentional' and not actually just a product of rushed development
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bvillebro posted...

frozenshock posted...

It actually does make a lot of sense that they would cut off at disk 1. Square is just a company and Xenogears is a product. They expect the product to be out at a certain time so they can make the profit that they most likely had budgeted for in advance in order to meet other expenses, etc. It makes a lot of sense that when the developers were saying that they might not make the deadline, the company told them "well, we don't care, just release it unfinished." There's nothing really that strange about i

if you played xenogears, ending it on disk 1 would be a shitshow. too many unanswered questions, cliffhangers, and storylines still in development to just cut the game off here. we had a new cast member introduced to us less than 10 hours previously, and a new game mechanic (limiters removed) that had JUST been released in Shevat

Why orient the entire gameplay system around this mechanic ultimately being released and all these new deathblow possibilities to be opened, only to end things 10 hours later?

Its obvious by things like Bart getting his gears Anima relic that they clearly had a full 2 disk process readied from the jump. They just overestimated how long disk 2 would take/disk space took up, so they cut the game content and left a coherent story intact

The idea of them proposing disk 2 in this format is pretty ridiculous. its obvious they had more in mind and just reduced. Like why would they propose Anima dungeons 1 and 2 as ways to get Billy and Rico their anima relics... thats so obviously an asspull

All true, but what you're forgetting is that the pressure to end at disk 1 is not something that came from the game developers themselves... it's something that came from the corporate/business side. I don't think anima relics are factored in the company's budget previsions
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Legaia always seemed to me like a better Xenogears than Xenogears itself.

Still an amazing game. But its sad they had to rush disk 2, and also had to cut Xenosaga from 6 games to 3... :-(
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frozenshock posted...

All true, but what you're forgetting is that the pressure to end at disk 1 is not something that came from the game developers themselves... it's something that came from the corporate/business side. I don't think anima relics are factored in the company's budget previsions

i hear you, im not saying it factored into budget provisions obvs

i am saying his idea that they were gonna just release disk 1, and then decided to make a disk 2 is bullshit. they clearly had 2 disks in mind the whole time, and just cut the game content of disk 2 while keeping the story intact

basically, calling bullshit on the developer here that it was his decision to make disk 2 like this. hes effectively blaming both square and some of his new staff members for something that was likely his fault
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Legaia always seemed to me like a better Xenogears than Xenogears itself.

LOLWUT

Legend of Legaia was the definition of average. The fighting system was interesting for a while but the game definitely doesn't warrant a replay. I can't say anything about Legaia 2 because I skipped it.

Then again, it was better than Baten Kaitos and that game seems pretty well liked around here for some reason.

bvillebro posted...

i am saying his idea that they were gonna just release disk 1, and then decided to make a disk 2 is bullshit. they clearly had 2 disks in mind the whole time, and just cut the game content of disk 2 while keeping the story intact

Could have pulled an Arc, and probably should have.

Questionmarktarius posted...

bvillebro posted...

i am saying his idea that they were gonna just release disk 1, and then decided to make a disk 2 is bullshit. they clearly had 2 disks in mind the whole time, and just cut the game content of disk 2 while keeping the story intact

Could have pulled an Arc, and probably should have.

the entire xeno universe would have been stronger because of it
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Not even best Square game much less best RPG on the PS1.

I mean who the fuck can argue against Suikoden II and possibly Valkyrie Profile?

And sure FF8 was remarkable. FFT is probably the best game of all time. Front Mission 3 deserves a mention for best Square game. Parasite Eve 1 and 2...
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I never played it

Ilishe posted...

Not even best Square game much less best RPG on the PS1.

I mean who the fuck can argue against Suikoden II and possibly Valkyrie Profile?

And sure FF8 was remarkable. FFT is probably the best game of all time. Front Mission 3 deserves a mention for best Square game. Parasite Eve 1 and 2...

I like the Lunar games a lot, but maybe they don't really count
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The only good in FF8 is the soundtrack and Triple Triad.

Balrog0 posted...

I never played it

Ilishe posted...

Not even best Square game much less best RPG on the PS1.

I mean who the fuck can argue against Suikoden II and possibly Valkyrie Profile?

And sure FF8 was remarkable. FFT is probably the best game of all time. Front Mission 3 deserves a mention for best Square game. Parasite Eve 1 and 2...

I like the Lunar games a lot, but maybe they don't really count

The Lunars are the best RPGs hands down on any system.

Ilishe posted...

Not even best Square game much less best RPG on the PS1.

I mean who the fuck can argue against Suikoden II and possibly Valkyrie Profile?

And sure FF8 was remarkable. FFT is probably the best game of all time. Front Mission 3 deserves a mention for best Square game. Parasite Eve 1 and 2...

Chillax, you're entitled to your own opinion. Besides the PS1 has way too many good games from square to be able to narrow it down to the one "best". I myself prefer FF7 but then again im just one guy.
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Ilishe posted...

Not even best Square game much less best RPG on the PS1.

I mean who the fuck can argue against Suikoden II and possibly Valkyrie Profile?

And sure FF8 was remarkable. FFT is probably the best game of all time. Front Mission 3 deserves a mention for best Square game. Parasite Eve 1 and 2...

Suikoden 2 is sublime. I like you
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Solar_Crimson posted...

I've never played this game, but the second disk was seriously just a montage of events? O_o

It's not even a montage. There is some scrolling text of game events of what COULD have taken up a second disk, then you do a series of storyless dungeons to get the Xenogears and then fight the final boss and that's it.
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ChromaticAngel posted...

Solar_Crimson posted...

I've never played this game, but the second disk was seriously just a montage of events? O_o

It's not even a montage. There is some scrolling text of game events of what COULD have taken up a second disk, then you do a series of storyless dungeons to get the Xenogears and then fight the final boss and that's it.

bvillebro posted...

frozenshock posted...

It actually does make a lot of sense that they would cut off at disk 1. Square is just a company and Xenogears is a product. They expect the product to be out at a certain time so they can make the profit that they most likely had budgeted for in advance in order to meet other expenses, etc. It makes a lot of sense that when the developers were saying that they might not make the deadline, the company told them "well, we don't care, just release it unfinished." There's nothing really that strange about i

if you played xenogears, ending it on disk 1 would be a shitshow. too many unanswered questions, cliffhangers, and storylines still in development to just cut the game off here. we had a new cast member introduced to us less than 10 hours previously, and a new game mechanic (limiters removed) that had JUST been released in Shevat

Why orient the entire gameplay system around this mechanic ultimately being released and all these new deathblow possibilities to be opened, only to end things 10 hours later?

Its obvious by things like Bart getting his gears Anima relic that they clearly had a full 2 disk process readied from the jump. They just overestimated how long disk 2 would take/disk space took up, so they cut the game content and left a coherent story intact

The idea of them proposing disk 2 in this format is pretty ridiculous. its obvious they had more in mind and just reduced. Like why would they propose Anima dungeons 1 and 2 as ways to get Billy and Rico their anima relics... thats so obviously an asspull

Eh I dunno. Games back then could be released sorta wonky in that way so nothing about it seems unbelievable. It was a different time.

"Back then, we had the direction of, 'All projects take two years and that's when we need to get it done.' So on top of developing the game, we had to nurture and teach and grow these younger employees. Things like 3D were extremely new, which led to some delays in the schedule. It just wasn't possible to get everything done."

Considering Square now this line is hilarious.
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Shotgunnova posted...

Disc 2's a bit more lackluster because of the storytelling compromises, but it's not hot garbage or anything. It just has more feelbads coming off Disc 1, which kicked tons of ass. But yeah, seeing a remake of Xenogears in our lifetimes would be sweet.

I'd freaking love that, but it's pretty much impossible now that Nintendo owns Monolith Soft yet another company owns Xenogears. I think the closest we can get is a game that has vague references to Xenogears (which is actually spread out throughout the Xenoblade franchise...most notably the Zohar shape/symbol).
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I agree with his decision.

I would rather have Xenogears disc 2 as-is than the game have ended after Solaris. At least the story wrapped up and we got everything filled it. Plus all that stuff with Zeboim on the second disc and Emeralda I liked quite a lot.

By the way did you people know that the Xenogears soundtrack is fucking awesome? Star of Tears, Flight, Lost, Broken Shards, the boss music, Graf's theme, the Yggdrasil music, Shevat's theme--all of it is fucking awesome. Oh, and June Mermaid too.

The Orchestral album, Truth, is just perfect omfg
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Never played it, but it sounds like they should have just made the game end at disc one, then make the intended disc 2 a sequel