Current Events > Trans woman denied access to fully nude woman's spa

(+) Yeah! (+)

AugustAdoulin posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

Sayoria posted...

As said many times before in this topic, if the person still has their penis, this is fair. A trans woman should be allowed to use them if they are post op. It is disturbing to have a penis exposed in a women's area where nudity is seen.

I am still pre-op and I have never used one because this is my belief. I would never force it on anyone. As a matter of fact, I have been getting hair removal on my genitals for this since February and even that makes me very uncomfortable exposing.

Bathrooms are one thing since penises aren't seen. Open exposure in spas and locker rooms are a whole different ball game.

A trans-person who is sane. Thank you for making an appearance in this topic. You are a beacon of hope in a world full of gunplagirls

I wouldn't call her sane. :u She used to make crazy topics about Trump.

What are you even talking about? I was a Kasich supporter. I never supported Trump. Ever. I don't follow pathological liars and people who can't remain consistent with their promises.
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Sayoria posted...

AugustAdoulin posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

Sayoria posted...

As said many times before in this topic, if the person still has their penis, this is fair. A trans woman should be allowed to use them if they are post op. It is disturbing to have a penis exposed in a women's area where nudity is seen.

I am still pre-op and I have never used one because this is my belief. I would never force it on anyone. As a matter of fact, I have been getting hair removal on my genitals for this since February and even that makes me very uncomfortable exposing.

Bathrooms are one thing since penises aren't seen. Open exposure in spas and locker rooms are a whole different ball game.

A trans-person who is sane. Thank you for making an appearance in this topic. You are a beacon of hope in a world full of gunplagirls

I wouldn't call her sane. :u She used to make crazy topics about Trump.

What are you even talking about? I was a Kasich supporter. I never supported Trump. Ever. I don't follow pathological liars and people who can't remain consistent with their promises.

you did, I remember <_<

You changed your tune when you found out he was anti LGBTQ as well, but you were on that train pretty hard when you thought he was only racist.
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Dustin1280 posted...

Sayoria posted...

As said many times before in this topic, if the person still has their penis, this is fair. A trans woman should be allowed to use them if they are post op. It is disturbing to have a penis exposed in a women's area where nudity is seen.

I am still pre-op and I have never used one because this is my belief. I would never force it on anyone. As a matter of fact, I have been getting hair removal on my genitals for this since February and even that makes me very uncomfortable exposing.

Bathrooms are one thing since penises aren't seen. Open exposure in spas and locker rooms are a whole different ball game.

A trans-person who is sane. Thank you for making an appearance in this topic. You are a beacon of hope in a world full of gunplagirls

It's not fair to the women. If I was in there and someone walked in there with a penis, be it trans or not, I would feel very uncomfortable because the sanctity was put in place for a freedom of exposed female-only genitals. A penis is not that. My mind would meltdown seeing one. Just because they claim they are female doesn't mean that they don't get turned on by women either. What if a stiffy comes about? Just.... just no. No.
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Regardless of what Sayoria's past may or may not have been.

It's nice to see a known tran-person in this topic making a logical point and not insanely selfish like certain other trans-people.
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Dustin1280 posted...

Regardless of what Sayoria's past may or may not have been.

It's nice to see a known tran-person in this topic that is logical and not insanely selfish like certain other trans-people.

yes.

this is why TC's topic is so bad. He is using the crazy ones like gunplay to make ALL of them look crazy and elicit a negative response, it's just dirty
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ROD posted...

Sayoria posted...

AugustAdoulin posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

Sayoria posted...

As said many times before in this topic, if the person still has their penis, this is fair. A trans woman should be allowed to use them if they are post op. It is disturbing to have a penis exposed in a women's area where nudity is seen.

I am still pre-op and I have never used one because this is my belief. I would never force it on anyone. As a matter of fact, I have been getting hair removal on my genitals for this since February and even that makes me very uncomfortable exposing.

Bathrooms are one thing since penises aren't seen. Open exposure in spas and locker rooms are a whole different ball game.

A trans-person who is sane. Thank you for making an appearance in this topic. You are a beacon of hope in a world full of gunplagirls

I wouldn't call her sane. :u She used to make crazy topics about Trump.

What are you even talking about? I was a Kasich supporter. I never supported Trump. Ever. I don't follow pathological liars and people who can't remain consistent with their promises.

you did, I remember <_<

You changed your tune when you found out he was anti LGBTQ as well, but you were on that train pretty hard when you thought he was only racist.

Wtf are you even talking about? The only "Support" I had anywhere was my signature, which I held a guess-the-song contest for to let people choose it. Someone chose Milo and Trump signatures for me because they knew I leaned conservative and it would be amusing. I didn't care and rolled with it. Even when addressed about those signatures, I would say that someone won a contest and I let them choose it.

That's all I had to do with Trump support, and it was faux anyways. I was very vocal for my Kasich support.
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it's funny how just chopping off something you were born with magically changes your sex/gender.
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Marauder64 posted...

it's funny how just chopping off something you were born with magically changes your sex/gender.

Well, yeah. That's science instead.

Marauder64 posted...

it's funny how just chopping off something you were born with magically changes your sex/gender.

Well people are born one gender, but sometimes their body doesn't match up with that gender.

Marauder64 posted...

it's funny how just chopping off something you were born with magically changes your sex/gender.

Gender dysphoria is an actual condition that deserves respect and understanding, but you can't just go around demanding everyone cater to you at the expense of their own freedom, comfort, etc., trans or not.
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Sayoria posted...

Wtf are you even talking about? The only "Support" I had anywhere was my signature, which I held a guess-the-song contest for to let people choose it. Someone chose Milo and Trump signatures for me because they knew I leaned conservative and it would be amusing. I didn't care and rolled with it. Even when addressed about those signatures, I would say that someone won a contest and I let them choose it.That's all I had to do with Trump support, and it was faux anyways. I was very vocal for my Kasich support.

<_< I don't know who to believe anymore.
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As desperate as you are @ROD to make this topic about you, it isn't.
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It's impossible for life and society to be 100% fair for everyone. Some people get the short end of the stick, trans people more than most. This is one of those occasions that I would say has no easy answer but leaning towards agreeing with the no penis policy. It would be better if society was more comfortable with nudity in general though. Then perhaps these issues wouldn't keep popping up.
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AugustAdoulin posted...

Sayoria posted...

Wtf are you even talking about? The only "Support" I had anywhere was my signature, which I held a guess-the-song contest for to let people choose it. Someone chose Milo and Trump signatures for me because they knew I leaned conservative and it would be amusing. I didn't care and rolled with it. Even when addressed about those signatures, I would say that someone won a contest and I let them choose it.That's all I had to do with Trump support, and it was faux anyways. I was very vocal for my Kasich support.

<_< I don't know who to believe anymore.

Believe what you want. It is a common misconception with me. I've hated on Jenner because of it when Jenner claimed support for Cruz and Trump. Trump's comments have always been contradicting. The guy verbally assaulted people in ways that made him look like a toddler. I still remember Jeb Bush trying to explain something to him and he rolled his eyes and was like "Ya ya Jeb, uh huh"..... like a child being told that smoking is bad by a parent but he was going to still smoke anyways.

Ignorance like that is what turns democracies into tyranny. I never trusted Trump from the getgo. I've stated that with the inability to remain consistent, it is absolutely impossible to know where he would take America, and for that reason.... I'm out.
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I think the presence or lack of a throbbing penis is an important detail
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Sayoria posted...

Believe what you want. It is a common misconception with me. I've hated on Jenner because of it when Jenner claimed support for Cruz and Trump. Trump's comments have always been contradicting. The guy verbally assaulted people in ways that made him look like a toddler. I still remember Jeb Bush trying to explain something to him and he rolled his eyes and was like "Ya ya Jeb, uh huh"..... like a child being told that smoking is bad by a parent but he was going to still smoke anyways.Ignorance like that is what turns democracies into tyranny. I never trusted Trump from the getgo. I've stated that with the inability to remain consistent, it is absolutely impossible to know where he would take America, and for that reason.... I'm out.

okay :o I believe you say.
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Kaname_Madoka posted...

Marauder64 posted...

it's funny how just chopping off something you were born with magically changes your sex/gender.

Well people are born one gender, but sometimes their body doesn't match up with that gender.

So? If I was born a female, but looked male and debonair in a suit, can I just be like..(you know what, I feel like using the male bathroom today) and just get away with it just because I "look" a certain way? If you have ovaries you clearly have different chromosomes. All a clever deception.
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Marauder64 posted...

Kaname_Madoka posted...

Marauder64 posted...

it's funny how just chopping off something you were born with magically changes your sex/gender.

Well people are born one gender, but sometimes their body doesn't match up with that gender.

So? If I was born a female, but looked male and debonair in a suit, can I just be like..(you know what, I feel like using the male bathroom today) and just get away with it just because I "look" a certain way? If you have ovaries you clearly have different chromosomes. All a clever deception.

I don't see the problem with using a restroom for another gender. The only difference is that female restrooms don't have urinals. Who are they trying to deceive, and what do they have to gain? Also, why the fuck do you care if someone with a different anatomy wants to take a shit in the stall next to you? I swear...people are such snowflakes
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Zembaphobia posted...

Marauder64 posted...

Kaname_Madoka posted...

Marauder64 posted...

it's funny how just chopping off something you were born with magically changes your sex/gender.

Well people are born one gender, but sometimes their body doesn't match up with that gender.

So? If I was born a female, but looked male and debonair in a suit, can I just be like..(you know what, I feel like using the male bathroom today) and just get away with it just because I "look" a certain way? If you have ovaries you clearly have different chromosomes. All a clever deception.

I don't see the problem with using a restroom for another gender. The only difference is that female restrooms don't have urinals. Who are they trying to deceive, and what do they have to gain? Also, why the fuck do you care if someone with a different anatomy wants to take a shit in the stall next to you? I swear...people are such snowflakes

Because in America, there are bathrooms for both genders. If they wanted Males and Females to both occupy the same bathroom, it would be so. Don't confuse my children dammit!

Also, who are they trying to deceive? Everyone. Literally. Especially if they, if male, try to date another male who is "straight" without a disclaimer. Vice versa with a female.
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Marauder64 posted...

Because in America, there are bathrooms for both genders. If they wanted Males and Females to both occupy the same bathroom, it would be so. Don't confuse my children dammit! Also, who are they trying to deceive? Everyone. Literally. Especially if they, if male, try to date another male who is "straight" without a disclaimer. Vice versa with a female.

you grew up with transsexuals using the same bathroom as you. you survived. suck it up. :u
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AugustAdoulin posted...

Marauder64 posted...

Because in America, there are bathrooms for both genders. If they wanted Males and Females to both occupy the same bathroom, it would be so. Don't confuse my children dammit! Also, who are they trying to deceive? Everyone. Literally. Especially if they, if male, try to date another male who is "straight" without a disclaimer. Vice versa with a female.

you grew up with transsexuals using the same bathroom as you. you survived. suck it up. :u

And if the bathrooms were unisex, that never would have been an issue at all.

infinitydev2020 posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

infinitydev2020 posted...

Jesus Christ.....that's possibly the worst comparison I've ever seen and you should feel ashamed.

I have noticed @gunplagirl just tends to throw shit at the window and see's what sticks, this is common practice in her rhetoric.

I mean but you think they wouldn't had brought the Physically disabled into that shit.

Oh but don't you know lololol
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/05/24/a_landmark_victory_for_trans_rights_under_the_ada.html
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gunplagirl posted...

Oh but don't you know lololol
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/05/24/a_landmark_victory_for_trans_rights_under_the_ada.html

That seems like a "when did you stop hitting your wife" gotcha.

Questionmarktarius posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Oh but don't you know lololol
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/05/24/a_landmark_victory_for_trans_rights_under_the_ada.html

That seems like a "when did you stop hitting your wife" gotcha.

Wtf

Domestic violence isn't a joke

What the hell is that even an expression for fucking a
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Marauder64 posted...

Zembaphobia posted...

Marauder64 posted...

Kaname_Madoka posted...

Marauder64 posted...

it's funny how just chopping off something you were born with magically changes your sex/gender.

Well people are born one gender, but sometimes their body doesn't match up with that gender.

So? If I was born a female, but looked male and debonair in a suit, can I just be like..(you know what, I feel like using the male bathroom today) and just get away with it just because I "look" a certain way? If you have ovaries you clearly have different chromosomes. All a clever deception.

I don't see the problem with using a restroom for another gender. The only difference is that female restrooms don't have urinals. Who are they trying to deceive, and what do they have to gain? Also, why the fuck do you care if someone with a different anatomy wants to take a shit in the stall next to you? I swear...people are such snowflakes

Because in America, there are bathrooms for both genders. If they wanted Males and Females to both occupy the same bathroom, it would be so. Don't confuse my children dammit!

Also, who are they trying to deceive? Everyone. Literally. Especially if they, if male, try to date another male who is "straight" without a disclaimer. Vice versa with a female.

I hope to get a boyfriend eventually. My goal is to make sure he knows far in advance. If he can accept me as I am, there can be true love without the need to hide anything. Why hide and live in fear?

I don't believe anyone needs to know of my being transgender except for him and my physicians. My physicians are so darn amazing. I need a man who is just as amazing. I've grown to the point that pussyfooting around issues is ridiculous and I just want a stable relationship. And yes, straight men have had interest in me before.
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Okay, so I would say that I agree that barring male genitalia from a woman's only spa is pretty fair. As long as it is publicly stated that they do not cater to those with a penis, it is completely fine. On this note, I don't really understand the idea of wanting to even be naked in front of strangers when you already hate your own body, it boggles the mind. I know that I avoided it, although I did find some friends and family that helped me get way more body positive. <3

As far as the notion that was raised that a person could just pretend to be a man one day and then a woman the next: Okay, where is your legal documentation pointing towards? If you are serious than your papers will all be pointing towards the one you are. Me, I just finally got my last paper changed, new birth certificate came finally with changed name and sex on it. If you can't prove your identity through your efforts, than you shouldn't make a stand on it. That is basically just making an ass of yourself.

As for those that are perfectly okay with Trans Men using the women's spa, consider that the reason they are there is basically to be pervy if anything like the white knights here were trying to pretend that they cared about. They legitimately are just there to look at naked girls if they decide to go there. I find that being okay with this is absolutely mind-boggling.
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thelovefist posted...

megamanfreakXD posted...

Yeah. He's a male right?

It is a transgender person that identifies as female.

So, he's a dude.
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Sylph posted...

Okay, so I would say that I agree that barring male genitalia from a woman's only spa is pretty fair. As long as it is publicly stated that they do not cater to those with a penis, it is completely fine. On this note, I don't really understand the idea of wanting to even be naked in front of strangers when you already hate your own body, it boggles the mind. I know that I avoided it, although I did find some friends and family that helped me get way more body positive. <3

As far as the notion that was raised that a person could just pretend to be a man one day and then a woman the next: Okay, where is your legal documentation pointing towards? If you are serious than your papers will all be pointing towards the one you are. Me, I just finally got my last paper changed, new birth certificate came finally with changed name and sex on it. If you can't prove your identity through your efforts, than you shouldn't make a stand on it. That is basically just making an ass of yourself.

As for those that are perfectly okay with Trans Men using the women's spa, consider that the reason they are there is basically to be pervy if anything like the white knights here were trying to pretend that they cared about. They legitimately are just there to look at naked girls if they decide to go there. I find that being okay with this is absolutely mind-boggling.

Awesome!
People like you and sayoria give me hope that the far left extremely selfish trans-rights people will not get there way.
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thelovefist posted...

megamanfreakXD posted...

Yeah. He's a male right?

It is a transgender person that identifies as female.

How he identifies in his very own personal solar system has no incidence on biological reality.
In other words, fair next.
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gunplagirl posted...

infinitydev2020 posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

infinitydev2020 posted...

Jesus Christ.....that's possibly the worst comparison I've ever seen and you should feel ashamed.

I have noticed @gunplagirl just tends to throw shit at the window and see's what sticks, this is common practice in her rhetoric.

I mean but you think they wouldn't had brought the Physically disabled into that shit.

Oh but don't you know lololol
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/outward/2017/05/24/a_landmark_victory_for_trans_rights_under_the_ada.html

so you're saying... you're a disabled person? I'm not sure what you're saying "lololol"
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Sayoria posted...

Marauder64 posted...

Zembaphobia posted...

Marauder64 posted...

Kaname_Madoka posted...

Marauder64 posted...

it's funny how just chopping off something you were born with magically changes your sex/gender.

Well people are born one gender, but sometimes their body doesn't match up with that gender.

So? If I was born a female, but looked male and debonair in a suit, can I just be like..(you know what, I feel like using the male bathroom today) and just get away with it just because I "look" a certain way? If you have ovaries you clearly have different chromosomes. All a clever deception.

I don't see the problem with using a restroom for another gender. The only difference is that female restrooms don't have urinals. Who are they trying to deceive, and what do they have to gain? Also, why the fuck do you care if someone with a different anatomy wants to take a shit in the stall next to you? I swear...people are such snowflakes

Because in America, there are bathrooms for both genders. If they wanted Males and Females to both occupy the same bathroom, it would be so. Don't confuse my children dammit!

Also, who are they trying to deceive? Everyone. Literally. Especially if they, if male, try to date another male who is "straight" without a disclaimer. Vice versa with a female.

I hope to get a boyfriend eventually. My goal is to make sure he knows far in advance. If he can accept me as I am, there can be true love without the need to hide anything. Why hide and live in fear?

I don't believe anyone needs to know of my being transgender except for him and my physicians. My physicians are so darn amazing. I need a man who is just as amazing. I've grown to the point that pussyfooting around issues is ridiculous and I just want a stable relationship. And yes, straight men have had interest in me before.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. You're post op other than your genitalia?
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DarthWendy posted...

thelovefist posted...

megamanfreakXD posted...

Yeah. He's a male right?

It is a transgender person that identifies as female.

How he identifies in his very own personal solar system has no incidence on biological reality.
In other words, fair next.

Hey Wendy. I've been using the women's room for years now. Yep, I've invaded your sanctity. Peeing in your toilets. Washing my hands in your sinks. Drying my hands with your towels. Sitting on the soft and comfy sofas that women's rooms have. Yep, it's great to be a woman.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

AugustAdoulin posted...

Marauder64 posted...

Because in America, there are bathrooms for both genders. If they wanted Males and Females to both occupy the same bathroom, it would be so. Don't confuse my children dammit! Also, who are they trying to deceive? Everyone. Literally. Especially if they, if male, try to date another male who is "straight" without a disclaimer. Vice versa with a female.

you grew up with transsexuals using the same bathroom as you. you survived. suck it up. :u

And if the bathrooms were unisex, that never would have been an issue at all.

agreed. I've seen it implemented recently in some places actually
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gunplagirl posted...

Wtf

Domestic violence isn't a joke

What the hell is that even an expression for fucking a

Exactly.

There's no way to answer the question, "when did you stop hitting your wife?" - it's a well known logic trap, that you should have known about.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html

A "loaded question", like a loaded gun, is a dangerous thing. A loaded question is a question with a false or questionable presupposition, and it is "loaded" with that presumption. The question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" presupposes that you have beaten your wife prior to its asking, as well as that you have a wife. If you are unmarried, or have never beaten your wife, then the question is loaded.

Since this example is a yes/no question, there are only the following two direct answers:

"Yes, I have stopped beating my wife", which entails "I was beating my wife."
"No, I haven't stopped beating my wife", which entails "I am still beating my wife."

Thus, either direct answer entails that you have beaten your wife, which is, therefore, a presupposition of the question. So, a loaded question is one which you cannot answer directly without implying a falsehood or a statement that you deny. For this reason, the proper response to such a question is not to answer it directly, but to either refuse to answer or to reject the question.

Are they pre-op or post-op?

Post-op I'd say it's unfair.
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Marauder64 posted...

Sayoria posted...

Marauder64 posted...

Zembaphobia posted...

Marauder64 posted...

Kaname_Madoka posted...

Marauder64 posted...

it's funny how just chopping off something you were born with magically changes your sex/gender.

Well people are born one gender, but sometimes their body doesn't match up with that gender.

So? If I was born a female, but looked male and debonair in a suit, can I just be like..(you know what, I feel like using the male bathroom today) and just get away with it just because I "look" a certain way? If you have ovaries you clearly have different chromosomes. All a clever deception.

I don't see the problem with using a restroom for another gender. The only difference is that female restrooms don't have urinals. Who are they trying to deceive, and what do they have to gain? Also, why the fuck do you care if someone with a different anatomy wants to take a shit in the stall next to you? I swear...people are such snowflakes

Because in America, there are bathrooms for both genders. If they wanted Males and Females to both occupy the same bathroom, it would be so. Don't confuse my children dammit!

Also, who are they trying to deceive? Everyone. Literally. Especially if they, if male, try to date another male who is "straight" without a disclaimer. Vice versa with a female.

I hope to get a boyfriend eventually. My goal is to make sure he knows far in advance. If he can accept me as I am, there can be true love without the need to hide anything. Why hide and live in fear?

I don't believe anyone needs to know of my being transgender except for him and my physicians. My physicians are so darn amazing. I need a man who is just as amazing. I've grown to the point that pussyfooting around issues is ridiculous and I just want a stable relationship. And yes, straight men have had interest in me before.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. You're post op other than your genitalia?

I've been on hormones since 2013. It's to the point I am overly dehydrated from all the spironolactone I've been taking. I work as a male, but I go to school, internship and more as a female. If there's anything I put over myself more, it is my pride. I have a boss that is damn certain I am transgender. A boss that is a bitch that thinks she is always right, accuses people of stealing. Snoops on Facebook to find dirt and has even told me that she is "The Company" ... I refuse to acknowledge myself as female in this job because I absolutely refuse to let her know for a fact that she is right.

I can't stand the c-.
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Samaellives91 posted...

Are they pre-op or post-op?

Post-op I'd say it's unfair.

The person that was refused was pre-op and had a penis. The spa has a no male genitals policy.
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Can't you just leave your male genitals at the front desk?
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remember

you can be trans and still like the same gender

so if the trans lady had a package it very well could become erect
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darkphoenix181 posted...

remember

you can be trans and still like the same gender

so if the trans lady had a package it very well could become erect

That doesn't matter to gunplagirl, her answer would basically be fuck you I'm a girl deal with it.

I know this is crass and i apologize if I offended any trans-people that are actually logical.
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Sayoria posted...

I've been on hormones since 2013. It's to the point I am overly dehydrated from all the spironolactone I've been taking. I work as a male, but I go to school, internship and more as a female. If there's anything I put over myself more, it is my pride. I have a boss that is damn certain I am transgender. A boss that is a bitch that thinks she is always right, accuses people of stealing. Snoops on Facebook to find dirt and has even told me that she is "The Company" ... I refuse to acknowledge myself as female in this job because I absolutely refuse to let her know for a fact that she is right.I can't stand the c-.

why not let her know? sounds like you're making things a lot more difficult for yourself for no real reason. And if you've been on hormones that long it isn't really that unusual for people to notice is it? You're going to look more feminine. :v
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darkphoenix181 posted...

remember

you can be trans and still like the same gender

so if the trans lady had a package it very well could become erect

Great thing about those of us on hormones is that we have a massively hard time becoming erect. Like, you have to actually try hard to make it happen.
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Dustin1280 posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

remember

you can be trans and still like the same gender

so if the trans lady had a package it very well could become erect

That doesn't matter to gunplagirl, her answer would basically be fuck you I'm a girl deal with it.

"IT'S A FEMALE DINGUS!! AND IT'S A GIRL-CHUB! If disabled people can use ramps I can deed here!!"
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Sayoria posted...

I've been on hormones since 2013. It's to the point I am overly dehydrated from all the spironolactone I've been taking. I work as a male, but I go to school, internship and more as a female. If there's anything I put over myself more, it is my pride. I have a boss that is damn certain I am transgender. A boss that is a bitch that thinks she is always right, accuses people of stealing. Snoops on Facebook to find dirt and has even told me that she is "The Company" ... I refuse to acknowledge myself as female in this job because I absolutely refuse to let her know for a fact that she is right.

I can't stand the c-.

Wow, must be convenient to be able to identify as whatever you like, whenever it fits you.
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stone posted...

Fair, next. Just go to a different spa.

That's logical and reasonable........so naturally people are going to do precisely the opposite.

I love Denise from Twin Peaks
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then again

I guess a non-trans lesbian could also be aroused in this spa

I guess that is a bit less visual than a penis, yet
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