Current Events > Trans woman denied access to fully nude woman's spa

(+) Yeah! (+)

She looks like a prison lunch lady
---

@Sayoria
@Sylph

I'm genuinely curious what some sane people think of my posts in this topic. Are they too aggressive? Am I trans-phobic?
What are you thoughts on my last post?

The truth of the matter is, I am all for trans rights, but there are some exceptions that I just cannot get behind yet until more information is put forth regarding them.
---

Just imagining a overly feminine guy trying to argue his way in there Le sigh ~

Asherlee10 posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

she is 6'6" and 220 pounds

Had to look this up.

Fucking hell.
---

I see this argument is still going x.x

This was the trending topic of this board so when I first read the title I didn't see the colon mark and read it as, "Hot Trans woman denied access to fully nude women's spa."
---

Vyrulisse posted...

Asherlee10 posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

she is 6'6" and 220 pounds

Had to look this up.

Fucking hell.

"Progress"
---

Dustin1280 posted...

@Sayoria
@Sylph

I'm genuinely curious what some sane people think of my posts in this topic. Are they too aggressive? Am I trans-phobic?
What are you thoughts on my last post?

The truth of the matter is, I am all for trans rights, but there are some exceptions that I just cannot get behind yet until more information is put forth regarding them.

"Im all for trans rights but heaven forbid they not look like a dainty cis woman or want to be treated as any other woman"
---

gunplagirl posted...

"Im all for trans rights but heaven forbid they not look like a dainty cis woman or want to be treated as any other woman"

No you're not sane, I don't give a damn what you think.
---

gunplagirl posted...

And you are still assuming you know their chromosomes so like, why are you bringing up scientific concepts if you can't even verify your assumption?

You're actually serious, or are you trolling? Either way lol. I'm not assuming anything. Females have XX chromosomes biologically. Males are XY. Biologically this person was born a male, and underwent sex reassignment surgery that made him physiologically closer to that of a female. However biologically he's still male, because sex reassignment surgery doesn't alter genetic makeup, and even has male parts biologically such as an Adam's apple. This person is still male no matter how hard he tries to be female.
---

Wait, is Negi and Gun the same user?
---

Bloodychess posted...

Wait, is Negi and Gun the same user?

Yes, unfortunately.
---

Drunken_Idiot posted...

gunplagirl posted...

And you are still assuming you know their chromosomes so like, why are you bringing up scientific concepts if you can't even verify your assumption?

You're actually serious, or are you trolling? Either way lol. I'm not assuming anything. Females have XX chromosomes biologically. Males are XY. Biologically this person was born a male, and underwent sex reassignment surgery that made him physiologically closer to that of a female. However biologically he's still male, because sex reassignment surgery doesn't alter genetic makeup, and even has male parts biologically such as an Adam's apple. This person is still male no matter how hard he tries to be female.

They didn't have SRS yet.

And cis women can have Adams apples but hey science.
---

PlsGodDontBanMe posted...

Bloodychess posted...

Wait, is Negi and Gun the same user?

Yes, unfortunately.

Sweet.

Hey Negi, how young can a child be to realize they aren't their assigned gender? I forgot your opinion on this.
---

gunplagirl posted...

They didn't have SRS yet.

And cis women can have Adams apples but hey science.

Yes, women do have Adam's apples, but that's because the larynx is much smaller. I'm talking about the noticeable protusion of the larynx that gives men their deeper voices. Also why are you moving goalposts? Either way, if they didn't have that surgery yet, my point still stands. You're not doing very well with your argument.

Btw Negi is now this user? Lol. I've been away from CE too long.
---

Dustin1280 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

"Im all for trans rights but heaven forbid they not look like a dainty cis woman or want to be treated as any other woman"

No you're not sane, I don't give a damn what you think.

It's what you're saying though. How does appearance matter if she's a woman? You're selectively using it to garner support by playing on biases and hatred of trans women.
---

Negi should really stop posting. He always just proves the point of his opposition.
---

gunplagirl posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

"Im all for trans rights but heaven forbid they not look like a dainty cis woman or want to be treated as any other woman"

No you're not sane, I don't give a damn what you think.

It's what you're saying though. How does appearance matter if she's a woman? You're selectively using it to garner support by playing on biases and hatred of trans women.

That fact that a 220 pound 6'6 trans-woman MIGHT have a physical advantage over biological woman and the fact that this might put ALL biological women at a disadvantage in professional sports is not something that I should be concerned about?

I don't hate trans-people and truthfully I might be a little biased on a FEW select matters, but i have enough common sense to realize when what I am saying might be construed as selfish and arrogant. You on the other hand have no such common sense.
IT doesn't matter what ANYONE thinks because you are 100% right and no other feelings or concerns should be taken into consideration except for your own.
---

Dustin1280 posted...

@Sayoria
@Sylph

I'm genuinely curious what some sane people think of my posts in this topic. Are they too aggressive? Am I trans-phobic?
What are you thoughts on my last post?

The truth of the matter is, I am all for trans rights, but there are some exceptions that I just cannot get behind yet until more information is put forth regarding them.

Well, since you really seem to want the answers to it, I would say that you are a bit caught up in your own narrative in your own way. Negi is a trans activist, so of course you were going to butt heads if you didn't go along with that path.

I did in fact notice that you didn't answer either of the statements I originally made in response to two different things you mentioned in different parts of the topic. There is a progression to transition and one cannot simply say they are the other gender and be legitimized legally. You have to change your identification. This requires different things in different places, but usually it requires that you be on HRT, and it either requires that you have a doctor sign for you in some states, or in other states it requires up to years of therapy and accompanying letters.

If you can show a legal transition has occurred, you should not be treated intentionally different than the natural of that gender. That is my stance. There can be extenuating circumstances where what is blocked in a place is actually a body part, such as in this case a penis. If that is stated, you shouldn't be trying to force your way into that location, it is a jackass move to go somewhere you aren't wanted just because you want to.

And I also stated that there is no reason to be more up in arms over this than you should be about Trans men being allowed in either. Trans men are way more potentially dangerous to women than trans women could ever be.
---

Dustin1280 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

"Im all for trans rights but heaven forbid they not look like a dainty cis woman or want to be treated as any other woman"

No you're not sane, I don't give a damn what you think.

It's what you're saying though. How does appearance matter if she's a woman? You're selectively using it to garner support by playing on biases and hatred of trans women.

That fact that a 220 pound 6'6 trans-woman MIGHT have a physical advantage over biological woman and the fact that this might put ALL biological women at a disadvantage in professional sports is not something that I should be concerned about?

I don't hate trans-people, but i have enough common sense to realize when what I am saying might be construed as selfish and arrogant. You on the other hand have no such common sense.
IT doesn't matter what ANYONE thinks because you are 100% right and no other feelings or concerns should be taken into consideration except for your own.

Negi has literally sunken into the "kill all who disagree with me" mindset that the most extreme of radicals have. And ask him about cops. He has said word for word "there's no such thing as a good officer"
---

Dustin1280 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

"Im all for trans rights but heaven forbid they not look like a dainty cis woman or want to be treated as any other woman"

No you're not sane, I don't give a damn what you think.

It's what you're saying though. How does appearance matter if she's a woman? You're selectively using it to garner support by playing on biases and hatred of trans women.

That fact that a 220 pound 6'6 trans-woman MIGHT have a physical advantage over biological woman and the fact that this might put ALL biological women at a disadvantage in professional sports is not something that I should be concerned about?

I don't hate trans-people, but i have enough common sense to realize when what I am saying might be construed as selfish and arrogant. You on the other hand have no such common sense.
IT doesn't matter what ANYONE thinks because you are 100% right and no other feelings or concerns should be taken into consideration except for your own.

Who would win in a fight?

1) girl in the center: http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8217/8344376164_f6d58a7a90.jpg

2) https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2015-10/19/19/campaign_images/webdr15/photos-every-short-guy-can-relate-to-2-5887-1445296606-7_dblbig.jpg (no, swift is not standing on a platform or step)
---

Drunken_Idiot posted...

gunplagirl posted...

They didn't have SRS yet.

And cis women can have Adams apples but hey science.

Yes, women do have Adam's apples, but that's because the larynx is much smaller. I'm talking about the noticeable protusion of the larynx that gives men their deeper voices. Also why are you moving goalposts? Either way, if they didn't have that surgery yet, my point still stands. You're not doing very well with your argument.

Btw Negi is now this user? Lol. I've been away from CE too long.

It's literally in the OP that she hasn't had it yet, how is established facts moving the goalpost?

You still haven't demonstrated her chromosomes. Blood sample or something? Got any evidence besides guessing?
---

Sylph posted...

As far as the notion that was raised that a person could just pretend to be a man one day and then a woman the next: Okay, where is your legal documentation pointing towards? If you are serious than your papers will all be pointing towards the one you are. Me, I just finally got my last paper changed, new birth certificate came finally with changed name and sex on it. If you can't prove your identity through your efforts, than you shouldn't make a stand on it. That is basically just making an ass of yourself.

As for those that are perfectly okay with Trans Men using the women's spa, consider that the reason they are there is basically to be pervy if anything like the white knights here were trying to pretend that they cared about. They legitimately are just there to look at naked girls if they decide to go there. I find that being okay with this is absolutely mind-boggling.

To point number one, I actually agree with you on this. That was mostly a response to neji and her being crazy.
What are you thoughts on the basketball player in regards to possible advantages she may have, given your first point?

Point #2:
I am actually not okay with trans men going into a penis only spa either, but I didn't want to deal with neji's circular arguments.
---

Has she had bottom and top surgery yet? If not then I can understand the spa decision.

GiftedACIII posted...

Negi should really stop posting. He always just proves the point of his opposition.

I'm a woman, and I'm around for proof of chromosomes and you have zero evidence. Guessing isn't fact. Even an educated guess isn't fact.
---

Unite posted...

Has she had bottom and top surgery yet? If not then I can understand the spa decision.

All we know is she had male genitalia and was refused based on the spa's no male genitalia rule (for neji's sake the no penis rule)
---

In many ways Trans women actually get weaker than natural women. The hormone blockers actually tend to reduce testosterone to far below the natural female levels, so that muscle atrophy becomes pretty extreme within a few years. In all likelihood, there is probably as many downsides as upsides that trans women have in sports that it probably balances out better than you think. There is if anything something similar to how certain ethnic biological backgrounds have a physical disposition towards being better at some things, such as how those of African descent have a greater lung capacity on average, and we certainly don't segregate those differences out.
---

Bloodychess posted...

PlsGodDontBanMe posted...

Bloodychess posted...

Wait, is Negi and Gun the same user?

Yes, unfortunately.

Sweet.

Hey Negi, how young can a child be to realize they aren't their assigned gender? I forgot your opinion on this.

Children as young as 2 have shown signs, and more than a few have said they knew in their earliest memories.
---

gunplagirl posted...

Bloodychess posted...

PlsGodDontBanMe posted...

Bloodychess posted...

Wait, is Negi and Gun the same user?

Yes, unfortunately.

Sweet.

Hey Negi, how young can a child be to realize they aren't their assigned gender? I forgot your opinion on this.

Children as young as 2 have shown signs, and more than a few have said they knew in their earliest memories.

L
M
F
A
O

Jesus youre awful. You do way more to harm your cause then help it negi.
---

PlsGodDontBanMe posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Bloodychess posted...

PlsGodDontBanMe posted...

Bloodychess posted...

Wait, is Negi and Gun the same user?

Yes, unfortunately.

Sweet.

Hey Negi, how young can a child be to realize they aren't their assigned gender? I forgot your opinion on this.

Children as young as 2 have shown signs, and more than a few have said they knew in their earliest memories.

L
M
F
A
O

Jesus youre awful. You do way more to harm your cause then help it negi.

Its almost like people are actually born trans and it isn't a choice

*office camera stare*
---

Sylph posted...

In many ways Trans women actually get weaker than natural women. The hormone blockers actually tend to reduce testosterone to far below the natural female levels, so that muscle atrophy becomes pretty extreme within a few years. In all likelihood, there is probably as many downsides as upsides that trans women have in sports that it probably balances out better than you think. There is if anything something similar to how certain ethnic biological backgrounds have a physical disposition towards being better at some things, such as how those of African descent have a greater lung capacity on average, and we certainly don't segregate those differences out.

I think this might be the one thing I cannot get behind yet, that women clearly has an advantage against the other women on that team. She towers over them, and from the picture appears to have far more muscle then her teammates. That height comes from her biological gender, and I would question whether that muscle does as well.

Muscle atrophy is definitely a thing with hormone blockers. But if you were in top physical shape as a male athlete then transitioned to become a female while maintaining as close to the same physical regimen as possible, I believe that you would be able to maintain a low to medium physical strength compared to cis-males, but that is a distinct advantage against a cis-woman who couldn't hope to achieve that.

I hope evidence comes out that proves one way or the other, but it's too gray area for me right now.
---

Dustin1280 posted...

@Sayoria
@Sylph

I'm genuinely curious what some sane people think of my posts in this topic. Are they too aggressive? Am I trans-phobic?
What are you thoughts on my last post?

The truth of the matter is, I am all for trans rights, but there are some exceptions that I just cannot get behind yet until more information is put forth regarding them.

Im all for trans rights but heaven forbid they not look like a dainty cis woman or want to be treated as any other woman
---

Sayoria posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

@Sayoria
@Sylph

I'm genuinely curious what some sane people think of my posts in this topic. Are they too aggressive? Am I trans-phobic?
What are you thoughts on my last post?

The truth of the matter is, I am all for trans rights, but there are some exceptions that I just cannot get behind yet until more information is put forth regarding them.

I'm all for trans rights but heaven forbid they not look like a dainty cis woman or want to be treated as any other woman

Is it not fair that I am concerned about the possible physical advantage, of being a female trans person in female athletics? I'm not trying to ban female--trans people from female competitions, but I would like to know more about the actual advantages they may or may not have.

The athlete I posted certainly looks damning.

With any luck, conclusive scientific proof will come out that proves my concern completely wrong, that would honestly be the best possible outcome and I would prefer it.
But right now there is conflicting information out there and nothing conclusive that I can find, that's the whole reason I am hesitant in this particular matter.
---

Sylph posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

@Sayoria
@Sylph

I'm genuinely curious what some sane people think of my posts in this topic. Are they too aggressive? Am I trans-phobic?
What are you thoughts on my last post?

The truth of the matter is, I am all for trans rights, but there are some exceptions that I just cannot get behind yet until more information is put forth regarding them.

Well, since you really seem to want the answers to it, I would say that you are a bit caught up in your own narrative in your own way. Negi is a trans activist, so of course you were going to butt heads if you didn't go along with that path.

I did in fact notice that you didn't answer either of the statements I originally made in response to two different things you mentioned in different parts of the topic. There is a progression to transition and one cannot simply say they are the other gender and be legitimized legally. You have to change your identification. This requires different things in different places, but usually it requires that you be on HRT, and it either requires that you have a doctor sign for you in some states, or in other states it requires up to years of therapy and accompanying letters.

If you can show a legal transition has occurred, you should not be treated intentionally different than the natural of that gender. That is my stance. There can be extenuating circumstances where what is blocked in a place is actually a body part, such as in this case a penis. If that is stated, you shouldn't be trying to force your way into that location, it is a jackass move to go somewhere you aren't wanted just because you want to.

And I also stated that there is no reason to be more up in arms over this than you should be about Trans men being allowed in either. Trans men are way more potentially dangerous to women than trans women could ever be.

To be honest, I'm far more of an activist than negi is. What has negi done for the LGBT or just Trans community rather than bitch about people who aren't or don't fully support the superiority of trans woman? I've volunteered for First Event, a transgender convention last year. I have been an intern and have volunteered with outside-of-intern events for an LGBT youth organization. I've marched in the Pride parade twice. I've done a 5 minute presentation over the harms that transgender people face in the present day in 2016. I've done a 40 minute presentation about the harms of placing youth on HRT in 2016. I am great friends with MANY activists in my state and know many by name. I went to a transgender event for youth around the ages of 6-12 and played board games with them. For three months, I would go to a youth support event to watch how they run the event and learn from them how these youth leaders do things.

I doubt negi does or has done half of that and I still stand by what I say and do. I support the LGBT community. I just support it on a realistic side.
---

Dustin1280 posted...

Sayoria posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

@Sayoria
@Sylph

I'm genuinely curious what some sane people think of my posts in this topic. Are they too aggressive? Am I trans-phobic?
What are you thoughts on my last post?

The truth of the matter is, I am all for trans rights, but there are some exceptions that I just cannot get behind yet until more information is put forth regarding them.

I'm all for trans rights but heaven forbid they not look like a dainty cis woman or want to be treated as any other woman

Is it not fair that I am concerned about the possible physical advantage, of being a female trans person in female athletics? I'm not trying to ban female--trans people from female competitions, but I would like to know more about the actual advantages they may or may not have.

The athlete I posted certainly looks damning.

With any luck, conclusive scientific proof will come out that proves my concern completely wrong, that would honestly be the best possible outcome and I would prefer it.
But right now there is conflicting information out there and nothing conclusive that I can find, that's the whole reason I am hesitant in this particular matter.

Note: I quoted negi because she was bitching about what I'd say, so I said it.

Honestly, I think you've been fair. I can't look back at EVERYTHING, but I've had no issues. If I did, I'd have called you out.
---

eston posted...

Can't you just leave your male genitals at the front desk?

LOL
---

gunplagirl posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

Negi should really stop posting. He always just proves the point of his opposition.

I'm a woman, and I'm around for proof of chromosomes and you have zero evidence. Guessing isn't fact. Even an educated guess isn't fact.

Hurr and you have zero evidence that he might not secretly have reptilian DNA. You're just shitposting now. Also, proof that you're a woman. I default to masculine pronouns without any proof so too bad for you.
---

Mitsukiba posted...

eston posted...

Can't you just leave your male genitals at the front desk?

LOL

"Check your privilege at the front desk" lol
---

Sayoria posted...

Note: I quoted negi because she was bitching about what I'd say, so I said it.

Ahh gotcha, I thought you were agreeing with negi so I felt the need to respond to someone opinion that I actually respect.
---

I would only allow it if it were @Sayoria

:^)
---

gunplagirl posted...

It's literally in the OP that she hasn't had it yet, how is established facts moving the goalpost?

Because you go from "prove chromosomes" to "she hasn't had SRS yet". Even if this man hasn't had SRS yet, which only helps further my point this man shouldn't be allowed in a spa full of women, my point still stands about biology. He has a penis and XY chromosomes. Which is something you can't refute. You dropped the whole "chromosome" thing momentarily to switch your argument when it doesn't change my point. Even if I'm wrong about SRS, my point still stands about biology, which is the crux of my argument.

Edit: Took a look through the OP again. It doesn't say anywhere where this man hasn't had SRS. -_-

You still haven't demonstrated her chromosomes. Blood sample or something? Got any evidence besides guessing?

I don't need to guess shit when this person is biologically male. Ergo XY chromosomes. Also stop using "her". This is a man for crying out loud.
---

There are women and there are transwomen which is completely different. This is a womans only spa so they are completely within their right.

Dustin1280 posted...

Sayoria posted...

Note: I quoted negi because she was bitching about what I'd say, so I said it.

Ahh gotcha, I thought you were agreeing with negi so I felt the need to respond to someone opinion that I actually respect.

Yeah. negi and I are so opposite on almost all of the matters with both of us in favor. It's like I am on the median of liberal and conservative with social issues. negi is as far left as you can get.
---

Linctagon7 posted...

I would only allow it if it were @Sayoria

:^)

;)
---

@Dustin1280 posted...

gunplagirl posted...

There's intersex people but you know, science

Yes science which you ignore just like anything else logical:

Xeno14 posted...

this idea is pretty common within some circles. Its basic premise is that gender and even sex(depending on who you talk to) are socially constructed therefore you can redefine them at your own discretion. and they further take this idea by using rare genetic conditions that are symptoms of a bad endocrine system as support for their argument. Like they'll use Androgential syndrome as proof, when this commonly present with those who have cushing syndrome.
Or for the whole chromosome argument, they'll use androgen insensitivity syndrome. This is where the male has XY chromosomes, including testes(they never descend) , but don't go through male puberty, instead developing closer to a females. This is due to the cells lacking the receptor for testosterone,

You and people like you give all trans-people a bad name. Thank god Sayoria and Sylph made an appearance in this topic.

I thought they were saying that trans-people use these notions as a means to justify their decisions... I don't think it was meant to be negatively construed but to say the truth.
---

Holy 402 posts. Not reading all that shit. All I'll say is the answer to the question is whatever the person was born with "down there".
---

Mitsukiba posted...

I thought they were saying that trans-people use these notions as a means to justify their decisions... I don't think it was meant to be negatively construed but to say the truth.

That post wasn't clear, she mentioned intersex, so I posted the quote as a counter.

The final bit was about gunplagirl not to Xeno14
---

gunplagirl posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

Negi should really stop posting. He always just proves the point of his opposition.

I'm a woman, and I'm around for proof of chromosomes and you have zero evidence. Guessing isn't fact. Even an educated guess isn't fact.

Ha ha... Shouldn't you be proving that to us?
---

Well then
---