Poll of the Day > Best starter Pokemon ever out of all of the Pokemon FINALE LAST ONE LAST POLL

(+) Yeah! (+)

Bulbasaur:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/1a126ca9a12605ffddbd51f861587376/tumblr_mu0kwy73fB1rey868o1_500.gif




http://24.media.tumblr.com/5947c98d62fc50b840abd413371d2ac0/tumblr_mf3zh52Kv21ruztjzo3_r3_500.gif

Charmander:
http://pa1.narvii.com/5832/310d617c87fc33d88addeb7ec734a8940a70a6d6_hq.gif

http://media2.giphy.com/media/6JvWR1rDbseeQ/giphy.gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcy630oGCZ1rvp5ygo1_500.gif

This is it! Final battle ever! Very surprising final two, who could have expected this?! Not me! That's for sure!

Congrats to third place Totodile and fourth place Mudkips!

Charmander most underrated pokemon ever.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Charmander most underrated pokemon ever.

>_>

Nooo Bulby is finally gonna lose :(

BlackScythe0 posted...

Charmander most underrated pokemon ever.

Bruh....
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You don't know! He could win!

We've seen huge comebacks before. And I'm going to keep bumping this for like a week before I end it. I want every potder to see this and vote

And I want another random argument to break out

BlackScythe0 posted...

Charmander most underrated pokemon ever.

Charmander is kinda underrated, but it's not even the most underrated Pokemon in this poll
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Bulbasaur by far. Why? Let's look at what each offers:
-Hate being poisoned? Bulbasaur's poison sub-type makes you immune to poison. (And keep in mind that a *lot* of things seem to poison. Just think of all the money you'll save on antidotes and potions!)

-Bulbasaur has a wider variety of moves, including a number of visible and invisible status afflictions. Sleep Powder is generally OP and Leech Seed can save you when you're going into gyms underleveled.

-Playing FRLG? The first two gyms are weak to grass and grass resists electricity for the third. While Bulbasaur's typing is either resistant or neutral to gym 4, by that time you have far more Pokemon available to cover it anyway.

-Playing RB? Bulbasaur might get sleep powder later on, but sleep is far more broken in RB because Pokemon use a turn waking up.

Bulbasaur is the more versatile, more usable starter. He's also the cuter starter.

MICHALECOLE posted...

Congrats to third place Totodile and fourth place Mudkips!

Rip-off!
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Zeus posted...

Sleep Powder is generally OP

>75% acc
>OP
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BlackScythe0 posted...

Charmander most underrated pokemon ever.

wtf you talking about. when you ask people which one they took it's always charmander.

bulbasaur for life tho.
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Charmander. No explanation necessary.

Muffinz0rz posted...

Zeus posted...

Sleep Powder is generally OP

>75% acc
>OP

>Move that stops Pokemon from using moves for multiple turns
>Not OP

And bearing in mind that Hypnosis, which only has a 60% ACC, has been widely run in high level play.

Raganork10 posted...

Charmander. No explanation necessary.

No, it needs explaining. Don't you walk out of here without explaining.
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Zeus posted...

And bearing in mind that Hypnosis, which only has a 60% ACC, is widely run in high level play.

In gen 1 maybe lmaaaooooo
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TheSlinja posted...

Zeus posted...

And bearing in mind that Hypnosis, which only has a 60% ACC, is widely run in high level play.

In gen 1 maybe lmaaaooooo

People do run hypnosis online, just not me because I have the worst luck ever. Can't even get Stone Miss to land consistently, so fat chance I'll use Hypnosis.
Zeus posted...

No, it needs explaining. Don't you walk out of here without explaining.

It really doesn't. People know why Charmander is popular. No explanation is necessary.

Zeus posted...

>Move that stops Pokemon from using moves for multiple turns
>Not OP

>Stopped by Overcoat, all Grass types, numerous "immune to sleep" abilities
>33.3% chance to wake up on turn 1 anyways
>OP
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the only 2 "good" pokemon that run hypnosis is sometimes gengar and sometimes xerketree, hardly "Widely Run"

and If sleep powder is so OP then why of all the pokemon capable of using it are only 2 even viable
If its as OP as you say shouldnt that make all these pokemon playable even with all their other drawbacks?
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TheSlinja posted...

Zeus posted...

And bearing in mind that Hypnosis, which only has a 60% ACC, is widely run in high level play.

In gen 1 maybe lmaaaooooo

And later.

Muffinz0rz posted...

Zeus posted...

>Move that stops Pokemon from using moves for multiple turns
>Not OP

>Stopped by Overcoat, all Grass types, numerous "immune to sleep" abilities
>33.3% chance to wake up on turn 1 anyways
>OP

I've never seen a Pokemon wake up the turn it went to sleep, although I've seen it defrost on its first turn. And Immune-to-Sleep abilities are uncommon.

Raganork10 posted...

It really doesn't. People know why Charmander is popular. No explanation is necessary.

It needs somebody to make a case for it, and I ain't doing it.

TheSlinja posted...

the only 2 "good" pokemon that run hypnosis is sometimes gengar and sometimes xerketree, hardly "Widely Run"

and If sleep powder is so OP then why of all the pokemon capable of using it are only 2 even viable
If its as OP as you say shouldnt that make all these pokemon playable even with all their other drawbacks?

Which isn't a problem with hypnosis so much as it is a problem with those Pokemon themselves. After all, a lot of Pokemon have access to stealth rock, for instance, but only a fraction of those Pokemon are actually used for that.
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Zeus posted...

I've never seen a Pokemon wake up the turn it went to sleep, although I've seen it defrost on its first turn.

I may not have been completely clear - I meant like it'll be asleep for one turn, then wake up. But it effectively isn't a lost turn because the user of Sleep Powder also used a turn by using Sleep Powder. So basically, you can take the 75% gamble, be successful, then the opponent wakes up and you basically have to try it all over again.

EDIT: Also, just FYI:

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/75428655
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I don't play pokemon but...


Sleep powder has a 75% initial chance to work, and then lasts for 1-3 rounds.

The average is 2 rounds, which means you have a 75% chance to get an extra turn on average, and a 25% chance to loose one.

another way to look at it though is it lasts 0-3 turns, since the 25% chance to fail fits in perfectly with there being 4 options with a 25% chance for each.

I wouldn't say it's OP, but yeah, not horrid either.
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Muffinz0rz posted...

Zeus posted...

I've never seen a Pokemon wake up the turn it went to sleep, although I've seen it defrost on its first turn.

I may not have been completely clear - I meant like it'll be asleep for one turn, then wake up. But it effectively isn't a lost turn because the user of Sleep Powder also used a turn by using Sleep Powder. So basically, you can take the 75% gamble, be successful, then the opponent wakes up and you basically have to try it all over again.

EDIT: Also, just FYI:

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/75428655

Which is an unfair claim considering that you're only looking at ONE generation (part of why I said "generally OP") where, it's worth noting, Bulbasaur isn't even a starter. In gen 1 where Bulbasaur was first a starter, it was OP beyond belief. In gen 3 where he was a starter the second time, it was still OP. Because it was so OP in the past, it's been nerfed since then.

wolfy42 posted...

I don't play pokemon but...


Sleep powder has a 75% initial chance to work, and then lasts for 1-3 rounds.

The average is 2 rounds, which means you have a 75% chance to get an extra turn on average, and a 25% chance to loose one.

another way to look at it though is it lasts 0-3 turns, since the 25% chance to fail fits in perfectly with there being 4 options with a 25% chance for each.

I wouldn't say it's OP, but yeah, not horrid either.

It lasts either at least 2-5 in most generations.
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Charizard.
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Zeus posted...

Which is an unfair claim considering that you're only looking at ONE generation (part of why I said "generally OP") where, it's worth noting, Bulbasaur isn't even a starter. In gen 1 where Bulbasaur was first a starter, it was OP beyond belief. In gen 3 where he was a starter the second time, it was still OP. Because it was so OP in the past, it's been nerfed since then.

Your wording is vague then. You would say "generally" if you were referring to every gen except gen 1, since there are six more gens where Sleep Powder is balanced.

I was taking the most recent iteration into account, which is far from OP. So, it's actually generally NOT op. Gen 1 is the exception. And even then, it's just the Sleep condition itself that is OP, not necessarily Sleep Powder itself. It just so happened that Sleep Powder was the best option available (unless you wanted to use Paras(ect) for 100% acc Spore, in which case you're using a Pokemon with two 4x weaknesses).
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Voted Bulba cuz it's cute, and to spite Squirtle haters.
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Zeus posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

Zeus posted...

I've never seen a Pokemon wake up the turn it went to sleep, although I've seen it defrost on its first turn.

I may not have been completely clear - I meant like it'll be asleep for one turn, then wake up. But it effectively isn't a lost turn because the user of Sleep Powder also used a turn by using Sleep Powder. So basically, you can take the 75% gamble, be successful, then the opponent wakes up and you basically have to try it all over again.

EDIT: Also, just FYI:

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/75428655

Which is an unfair claim considering that you're only looking at ONE generation (part of why I said "generally OP") where, it's worth noting, Bulbasaur isn't even a starter. In gen 1 where Bulbasaur was first a starter, it was OP beyond belief. In gen 3 where he was a starter the second time, it was still OP. Because it was so OP in the past, it's been nerfed since then.

wolfy42 posted...

I don't play pokemon but...


Sleep powder has a 75% initial chance to work, and then lasts for 1-3 rounds.

The average is 2 rounds, which means you have a 75% chance to get an extra turn on average, and a 25% chance to loose one.

another way to look at it though is it lasts 0-3 turns, since the 25% chance to fail fits in perfectly with there being 4 options with a 25% chance for each.

I wouldn't say it's OP, but yeah, not horrid either.

It lasts either at least 2-5 in most generations.

I would consider 2-5 as OP:)
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Bulbasaur based on the fact that he's been my favorite Pokemon since the beginning.

Muffinz0rz posted...

Zeus posted...

Which is an unfair claim considering that you're only looking at ONE generation (part of why I said "generally OP") where, it's worth noting, Bulbasaur isn't even a starter. In gen 1 where Bulbasaur was first a starter, it was OP beyond belief. In gen 3 where he was a starter the second time, it was still OP. Because it was so OP in the past, it's been nerfed since then.

Your wording is vague then. You would say "generally" if you were referring to every gen except gen 1, since there are six more gens where Sleep Powder is balanced.

I was taking the most recent iteration into account, which is far from OP. So, it's actually generally NOT op. Gen 1 is the exception. And even then, it's just the Sleep condition itself that is OP, not necessarily Sleep Powder itself. It just so happened that Sleep Powder was the best option available (unless you wanted to use Paras(ect) for 100% acc Spore, in which case you're using a Pokemon with two 4x weaknesses).

Except no, sleep was strong UNTIL recently. For more than half of Pokemon's existence, it's been a great status condition including -- most importantly -- when Bulbasaur was an actual starter.

And a 75% chance of gaining a 2-5 turn advantage *is* OP.
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Dark Void and Spore were really the only two viable sleep moves. Now that Dark Void has been hit with the nerf bat, and Spore can basically only be used by Smeargle and Breloom, Sleep Powder does look like a better choice this gen. Still, I wouldn't call it OP. The low accuracy balances the move. Missing a quarter of your attempts and effectively passing the turn over to your opponent can lose you the match. I'd rather not take those kinds of odds.

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Interesting comments regarding Bulbasaur: (would link direct, but it's HUGE... and apparently just part 2)

http://imgur.com/gallery/znd84


Note that some of the series' founders regard him as the best starter.
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And before anybody doubts Bulbasaur's greatness, keep in mind that he's the #1 Pokemon. Literally.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_National_Pok%C3%A9dex_number
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http://33.media.tumblr.com/bf9f2193d66a20a51ce5aae4c689a1c3/tumblr_ntnxjunein1unwageo1_500.gif
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Go bulby go :)
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Zeus posted...

Raganork10 posted...

It really doesn't. People know why Charmander is popular. No explanation is necessary.

It needs somebody to make a case for it, and I ain't doing it.

Apparently, Charmander evolves into a fire-breathing motherfucking dragon and dragons are super badass or something.

I like Bulbasaur more. Probs nostalgia for being my first starter.
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https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/75429042

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/210930-pokemon-ultra-sun/75432063

@Zeus

Seems you're in the minority
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I wish Zeus was a minority

Charmander! Fuck yeah.
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Greatest injustice since Nelson Mandela was locked up. My only consolation is that in some other reality Bulbasaur won and that people may someday remember that reality instead of this horrifically unjust one.

trodi_911 posted...

Zeus posted...

Raganork10 posted...

It really doesn't. People know why Charmander is popular. No explanation is necessary.

It needs somebody to make a case for it, and I ain't doing it.

Apparently, Charmander evolves into a fire-breathing motherfucking dragon and dragons are super badass or something.

I like Bulbasaur more. Probs nostalgia for being my first starter.

idk, dinosaurs are pretty badass. Everybody loves them, right?

Muffinz0rz posted...

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/187276-pokemon-sun/75429042

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/210930-pokemon-ultra-sun/75432063

@Zeus

Seems you're in the minority

Asking on Sun/US boards, lol.

MICHALECOLE posted...

I wish Zeus was a minority

I am a minority. There aren't many Olympian-Americans. It's probably why I get pulled over so often for routine traffic stops.
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Zeus posted...

trodi_911 posted...

Zeus posted...

Raganork10 posted...

It really doesn't. People know why Charmander is popular. No explanation is necessary.

It needs somebody to make a case for it, and I ain't doing it.

Apparently, Charmander evolves into a fire-breathing motherfucking dragon and dragons are super badass or something.

I like Bulbasaur more. Probs nostalgia for being my first starter.

idk, dinosaurs are pretty badass. Everybody loves them, right?

It looks more frog than a dinosaur. Also, plants are kinda lame as attacks since people don't tend to avoid plants like they do with fire.
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trodi_911 posted...

Zeus posted...

trodi_911 posted...

Zeus posted...

Raganork10 posted...

It really doesn't. People know why Charmander is popular. No explanation is necessary.

It needs somebody to make a case for it, and I ain't doing it.

Apparently, Charmander evolves into a fire-breathing motherfucking dragon and dragons are super badass or something.

I like Bulbasaur more. Probs nostalgia for being my first starter.

idk, dinosaurs are pretty badass. Everybody loves them, right?

It looks more frog than a dinosaur. Also, plants are kinda lame as attacks since people don't tend to avoid plants like they do with fire.

Frogs don't have claws and they have webbing in their feet. Among other problems, to say the least. Most notably, perhaps, being the hind legs and the fact that frogs leap rather than walk.



In general, the idea that he doesn't look like a dinosaur mostly just smacks of ignorance as the number of varieties of dinosaurs out there.



The Dicynodont is one rough example.

Of course, the concept is rather shamelessly stolen from a Dimetrodon which, rather than being a dinosaur, was a reptile with a back appendage designed to draw in the sun's rays to warm its body.

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Zeus posted...

Asking on Sun/US boards, lol.

How is this at all a rebuttal?
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This is a wash.
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MICHALECOLE posted...

You don't know! He could win!

We've seen huge comebacks before. And I'm going to keep bumping this for like a week before I end it. I want every potder to see this and vote

And I want another random argument to break out

BlackScythe0 posted...

Charmander most underrated pokemon ever.

mission accomplished
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

And I want another random argument to break out

I've been arguing with Zeus about Sleep Powder, but I think that one pales (so far) in comparison to the one about whether evolutions should be considered or not.
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Muffinz0rz posted...

Zeus posted...

Asking on Sun/US boards, lol.

How is this at all a rebuttal?

@Zeus
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Veedrock- posted...

This is a wash.

It's the most rigged poll in the history of rigging. There's so much vote-stuffing going on that it's like Thanksgiving at Red Lobster.

Muffinz0rz posted...

Krazy_Kirby posted...

And I want another random argument to break out

I've been arguing with Zeus about Sleep Powder, but I think that one pales (so far) in comparison to the one about whether evolutions should be considered or not.

There should be no argument considering that in at least 4-5 generations, sleep powder was great and in gen 1 it was godly.

Muffinz0rz posted...

Muffinz0rz posted...

Zeus posted...

Asking on Sun/US boards, lol.

How is this at all a rebuttal?

@Zeus

@Muffinz0rz Impatient little shit, aren't you? I haven't been on Gamefaqs all day iirc yet you tagged me a mere 6 hours after your post.

At any rate, go pick someplace reliable to ask considering that Gamefaqs' userbase isn't exactly the best source for that kind of information. They're the guys who actually chose to start with Charmander, so what do they know? Nothing.
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Zeus posted...

There should be no argument considering that in at least 4-5 generations, sleep powder was great and in gen 1 it was godly.

Great =/= OP

Is this you conceding?

Zeus posted...

Impatient little shit, aren't you? I haven't been on Gamefaqs all day iirc yet you tagged me a mere 6 hours after your post.

Nah, you were. I recall seeing a post from you after my response, thus indicating you were online. I would not have tagged you otherwise.

Zeus posted...

At any rate, go pick someplace reliable to ask considering that Gamefaqs' userbase isn't exactly the best source for that kind of information. They're the guys who actually chose to start with Charmander, so what do they know? Nothing.

Right, because one's preferred starter for a vanilla campaign playthrough is totally an accurate depiction of their competitive prowess.

Plus I got IP banned from Smogon because they got sick of me trolling so I can't exactly make a new account to post there, but you're more than welcome to do so on my behalf.

You're complaining about people vote stuffing because your favorite isn't winning at a meaningless, one-time poll series on a niche board on a small website that, according to Erik, only 2,000 people are on at a daily time, so it's really hard to take you seriously anyways.
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Muffinz0rz posted...

Zeus posted...

There should be no argument considering that in at least 4-5 generations, sleep powder was great and in gen 1 it was godly.

Great =/= OP

Is this you conceding?

OP Gen 1 where Bulbasaur was a starter, still great during later gens including when Bulbasaur was a starter again. Less useful now BUT still far more useful than not having it where Charmander has no status inflictors because Charmander's movepool is shallow.

Muffinz0rz posted...

Zeus posted...

Impatient little shit, aren't you? I haven't been on Gamefaqs all day iirc yet you tagged me a mere 6 hours after your post.

Nah, you were. I recall seeing a post from you after my response, thus indicating you were online. I would not have tagged you otherwise.

I most certainly was not and, even if I was to any extent, it would have been under supremely limited time where I only was able to check a topic or two. Regardless, tagging after 6 fucking hours is still cringy.

Muffinz0rz posted...

Zeus posted...

At any rate, go pick someplace reliable to ask considering that Gamefaqs' userbase isn't exactly the best source for that kind of information. They're the guys who actually chose to start with Charmander, so what do they know? Nothing.

Right, because one's preferred starter for a vanilla campaign playthrough is totally an accurate depiction of their competitive prowess.

Plus I got IP banned from Smogon because they got sick of me trolling so I can't exactly make a new account to post there, but you're more than welcome to do so on my behalf.

Few problems with that assessment:

1) You never specified "campaign" in your polls, so people were thinking more competitively. Sleep is incredibly useful in campaign because it increases your catch rate dramatically. The only status condition on par is freezing.

2) Campaign is part of the benefit of picking a starter, and Bulbasaur has always been better in campaign. He has an advantage over more gyms and E4 than Charmander.

3) For said campaign, sleep is a tremendous benefit for catching Pokemon. Given that Bulbasaur can learn false swipe and sleep powder, he's a decent capture Pokemon should you choose to use him for that. Charmander doesn't have that capability. In general, Bulbasaur has a ton of campaign advantages.

And you mean to say you've trolled elsewhere about Pokemon? >_>

Muffinz0rz posted...

You're complaining about people vote stuffing because your favorite isn't winning at a meaningless, one-time poll series on a niche board on a small website that, according to Erik, only 2,000 people are on at a daily time, so it's really hard to take you seriously anyways.

Total votes for previous rounds averaged 70-80. We're already at 120. As Campbell sung in Bring It On: The Musical, "Something isn't right here / I've got the Spidey Sense / Too much has been going on / For it to be coincidence."
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Zeus posted...

OP Gen 1 where Bulbasaur was a starter, still great during later gens including when Bulbasaur was a starter again. Less useful now BUT still far more useful than not having it where Charmander has no status inflictors because Charmander's movepool is shallow.

Yes, even I couldn't deny that it was OP in gen 1. But now you're saying it's not OP in every subsequent gen. Ergo, I have defeated you with logic and supporting evidence.

Zeus posted...

1) You never specified "campaign" in your polls, so people were thinking more competitively. Sleep is incredibly useful in campaign because it increases your catch rate dramatically. The only status condition on par is freezing.

2) Campaign is part of the benefit of picking a starter, and Bulbasaur has always been better in campaign. He has an advantage over more gyms and E4 than Charmander.

3) For said campaign, sleep is a tremendous benefit for catching Pokemon. Given that Bulbasaur can learn false swipe and sleep powder, he's a decent capture Pokemon should you choose to use him for that. Charmander doesn't have that capability. In general, Bulbasaur has a ton of campaign advantages.

1.) I purposely left it open-ended to avoid bias. People could think however they wanted, factoring either just campaign, just competitive, or both, into their decisions. And secondly, it's incredibly boring to pick the "best" starter every single playthrough. Where's the fun in picking Bulbasaur and knowing literally everything that's going to happen for the first few gyms? And finally, it's not like Pokemon are hard to catch early on, which really eliminates the need for putting Pokemon to sleep for at least 3-4 gyms - you can find anything else to fill the void well before they get hard (Butterfree, Venomoth, Oddish line) - these are all widely available well before catching anything becomes hard.

2.) The difference between campaign and competitive is that, generally speaking, people do campaign for fun, whereas competitive is to win (and also to have fun). In my humble opinion, it's more fun to switch up starters, rather than simply picking the best one every time.

3.) I sorta addressed this in #1 so I'll leave this one blank

Zeus posted...

And you mean to say you've trolled elsewhere about Pokemon? >_>

Lolol shocker, right?

Actually in this case for Smogon / Pokemon Showdown!, I got the banhammer (well, permalock from talking) because I kept inciting the lobby into arguments about politics, religion, and other non-Pokemon related stuff. All I had to do was say something like "religion is the source of all pain in the world" and the lobby would just take that and run with it. Eventually, the mods caught on.

Zeus posted...

Total votes for previous rounds averaged 70-80. We're already at 120. As Campbell sung in Bring It On: The Musical, "Something isn't right here / I've got the Spidey Sense / Too much has been going on / For it to be coincidence."

I mean, this is kinda moot since it's impossible to tell for sure. Previous results are not necessarily a correlation to current results.

I will say that whoever is so bored as to vote stuff a PotD poll about Pokemon needs to re-evaluate their hobbies.
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No other round besides the third place vote lasted this long, they ended far sooner. People are also more likely to participate in a finals vote than in the preliminaries. Happens with site contest brackets too.
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