Current Events > Democrats just united on a $15-an-hour minimum wage

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://news.vice.com/story/democrats-just-united-on-a-15-an-hour-minimum-wage
---

It's funny how the people who would benefit most from this are the ones who are the most opposed to it
---

I think the minimum wage should vary based on where you live. $15 an hour is lower class money in NYC but you're living like a king with it in East Bumblefuck, Wyoming.
---

In 2015, when similar legislation was introduced, it had the support of a half-dozen Democrats; today, that number is 31 Democrats.

There are 48 Democratic Senators.

Still, this is encouraging.
---

frozenshock posted...

It's funny how the people who would benefit most from this are the ones who are the most opposed to it

Have you mistaken Trump voters for poor people? Because that's not the case.
---

I'm all for paying people a living wage, but I struggled to get to where I am right now at $22/hr. It's been a hard-fought battle for me due to my background.
Making minimum wage $15/hr. makes my hard work feel like it was for nothing. I battled uphill for almost 15 years to fight my way out of shitty life circumstances and it really does suck to stand here and watch it turn to dust.

Do they not realize that this will change nothing?
The cost of living will just go up to compensate. That's just how it works.

If you want to make a change then the people need to come together and get companies to pay what people are worth.
Don't just make the new minimum wage a larger number...that shit won't work! The companies creating jobs need to see their workers as people, not profits or nothing will EVER get better.
---

frozenshock posted...

It's funny how the people who would benefit most from this are the ones who are the most opposed to it

---

I say we take the minimum wage and push it somewhere else
---

DirtyAim posted...

I struggled to get to where I am right now at $22/hr. It's been a hard-fought battle for me due to my background.
Making minimum wage $15/hr. makes my hard work feel like it was for nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

DirtyAim posted...

The cost of living will just go up to compensate. That's just how it works.

source: your ass

that is not how it works and if you respond to me using the word "inflation" i will hurt you.
---

DirtyAim posted...

That's just how it works.

DirtyAim posted...

The companies creating jobs need to see their workers as people, not profits or nothing will EVER get better.

You have a much better shot at minimum wage increases without corresponding cost of living increases than of getting companies to treat workers as anything other than impacts on their bottom lines.
---

DNC is already well on their way to losing the 2020 elections, I see.
---

Mal_Fet posted...

DNC is already well on their way to losing the 2020 elections, I see.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/04/13/poll-results-minimum-wage/

even the 15/hr level polls pretty well.
---

DirtyAim posted...

I'm all for paying people a living wage, but I struggled to get to where I am right now at $22/hr. It's been a hard-fought battle for me due to my background.
Making minimum wage $15/hr. makes my hard work feel like it was for nothing. I battled uphill for almost 15 years to fight my way out of shitty life circumstances and it really does suck to stand here and watch it turn to dust.

Do they not realize that this will change nothing?
The cost of living will just go up to compensate. That's just how it works.

If you want to make a change then the people need to come together and get companies to pay what people are worth.
Don't just make the new minimum wage a larger number...that shit won't work! The companies creating jobs need to see their workers as people, not profits or nothing will EVER get better.

This. It's already been proven to be a failed experiment in seattle. Tons of small businesses/restaurants have been forced to close their doors because they cannot afford the payroll any longer.

The only way this kind of thing works is if the cost of living goes up to match it, so that employers can actually afford to pay the workers the wage. And at that point, you're right back to square one as you're taking home roughly the same amount as you were before since everything now costs more. The only answer to making more money is applying yourself, getting experience, education, and getting an actual good job. Fast food and bottom of the barrel jobs that a monkey could do will never be worth 15 an hour. To suggest that they are is ludicrous.
---

AssultTank posted...

I mean, in some parts of the nation, it's doubling the minimum wage... Doubling the labor cost can easily cause massive price hikes or closing of businesses. I understand that there are areas with a $15/hr minimum wage, but they were already higher than average in terms of minimum wage and costs of living.

All you will wind up doing in a place like Atlanta implementing a $15/hr minimum wage will be to cause the cost of living to skyrocket and put even more people into poverty.

typically real estate costs dwarf labor costs for businesses that actually employ people at or near min-wage levels.

anyone who claims that raising the minimum wage would have an equivalent impact on cost of living to perfectly balance it out and leave the workers exactly where they were is just doing mental gymnastics to justify their own pre-determined conclusions. because increasing net operating cost by 2% would, at most, increase cost by 2%. for those near-min wage laborers, income stream is increasing by much more than 2%.

what is true is that businesses that already are run on razor thin margins would struggle to stay afloat, and those are the places you'd see price hikes first.
---

GAMER_X_REVIVAL posted...

This. It's already been proven to be a failed experiment in seattle. Tons of small businesses/restaurants have been forced to close their doors because they cannot afford the payroll any longer.

the seattle experiment is designed to run until 2021 and your assessment of it is pretty much a lie.

https://evans.uw.edu/policy-impact/minimum-wage-study
---

Darkman124 posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

DNC is already well on their way to losing the 2020 elections, I see.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/04/13/poll-results-minimum-wage/

even the 15/hr level polls pretty well.

So did Hil-dog.


---

Darkman124 posted...

source: your ass

that is not how it works and if you respond to me using the word "inflation" i will hurt you.

It's fucked up when people actually work towards their profession only to make the same amount as a burger flipper who didn't have to do anything to get that pay. All other wages are gonna have to go up to even this out and yes, it's gonna do nothing but get us into a deeper hole of inflation.
---

DirtyAim posted...

I'm all for paying people a living wage

proceeds to explain why that's not true
---

DirtyAim posted...

Darkman124 posted...

source: your ass

that is not how it works and if you respond to me using the word "inflation" i will hurt you.

It's fucked up when people actually work towards their profession only to make the same amount as a burger flipper who didn't have to do anything to get that pay. All other wages are gonna have to go up to even this out and yes, it's gonna do nothing but get us into a deeper hole of inflation.

I'm tired of BURGER FLIPPER being used as a buzz word in this debate. There are plenty of industries that pay less than 15. There are factory workers who work their ass off every day right now who make less than 15. Stop using fast food workers to downplay the reality....

frozenshock posted...

It's funny how the people who would benefit most from this are the ones who are the most opposed to it

It's funny how the people who would be hurt by this the most are the ones who most support it.

Mal_Fet posted...

Darkman124 posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

DNC is already well on their way to losing the 2020 elections, I see.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/04/13/poll-results-minimum-wage/

even the 15/hr level polls pretty well.

So did Hil-dog.

The magic boats let people sail to other businesses and spend money there that they otherwise wouldn't have so all businesses make more profit from increased demand. That also means more people need to be hired to meet the demand so more people get jobs.
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

Darkman124 posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

DNC is already well on their way to losing the 2020 elections, I see.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/04/13/poll-results-minimum-wage/

even the 15/hr level polls pretty well.

So did Hil-dog.

The magic boats let people sail to other businesses and spend money there that they otherwise wouldn't have so all businesses make more profit from increased demand. That also means more people need to be hired to meet the demand so more people get jobs.

That's the beautiful thing about magic boats, they're magic. They can do anything you want them to do. No need to think about silly things like economic science, market forces, job demand, or reality.

15 dollar minimum wage? Screw my high end analyst job with the military that pays meh and is stressful. I'll take 15 an hour work at some crap job on lower cost of living areas. Live comfortably and be happy
---

$15 an hour everywhere is a stupid idea. It needs to depend on the cost of living in an area.
---

DirtyAim posted...

It's f***ed up when people actually work towards their profession only to make the same amount as a burger flipper who didn't have to do anything to get that pay. All other wages are gonna have to go up to even this out and yes, it's gonna do nothing but get us into a deeper hole of inflation.

inflation happens when you increase the supply of money, not when you modify regulations to force businesses to pay higher costs. do you think the EPA causes inflation?

AssultTank posted...

You would actually in a place like Atlanta, be increasing net operating costs by something closer to 12% for most businesses that employ minimum wage workers. For a restaurant, for example, that would be catastrophic. Most restaurants run on a 3-4% profit margin.

I know for us, real estate costs are about 3% of net sales while labor typically runs 12.8%. Food cost is another 38% (We sell a lot of ribs and beef which drives our food cost up). We also pay more than current minimum wage, but most of our employees are $10/hr or less. Our profit margin is something like 2% most of the time. As it stands, we wouldn't be able to afford to pay our people above $15/hr without some hefty price increases which our customers would not accept. But the thing is, in our area, $7.25/hr is a livable wage. So why would we want to increase minimum wage and cause the issues related to it? In the end, our employees would be worse off if minimum wage was raised to $15/hr.

i am highly skeptical of your claim that real estate costs are 3% of your net sales, but ok. what would a 10-15% increase in product prices do to your customer base?

and 7.25/hr full time is probably not livable when a 2br apt is 1350 in atlanta. 1200/mo pretax means your half of the rent is more than 50% of your gross income.
---

JSancton posted...

Screw my high end analyst job with the military that pays meh and is stressful.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11931692/The-most-stressful-job-Waitressing-say-scientists.html

But a new study suggests that it is menial, thankless jobs that leave people suffering the most stress, and are consequently the most damaging to health.
Chinese scientists have found that low paid jobs with a high work-load, such as waitressing, leave employees at far greater risk from heart problems and 58 per cent more likely to suffer an ischemic stroke – the most common type of stroke which is caused by a blockage of blood flow.
In contrast it is scientists and architects who seem to be the least stressed professionals, and therefore at no extra risk of heart problems.
The researchers believe that people who experience high levels of stress at work are less likely to look after themselves and often resort to drinking and smoking. Many are also forced to work disruptive shift patterns which have been linked to cancer and poor health.
"Having a lot of job stress has been linked to heart disease, but studies on job stress and stroke have shown inconsistent results," said Dingli Xu, MD, with Southern Medical University in Guangzhou, China.
"It's possible that high stress jobs lead to more unhealthy behaviors, such as poor eating habits, smoking and a lack of exercise."
Scientists say stress in a job is largely dependent on feeling in control and respected. While doctors, teachers and other professionals may have mentally taxing jobs, they feel empowered and so do not become as stressed. In contrast those in jobs in the service industry are often vulnerable to the whims of customers and management. And they often work long, unsociable hours to serve workers after the usual 9-5 working day.

---

$15 dollars for low skilled jobs means everyone, and I mean everyone's food is about to get more expensive. Many small businesses will also go out of business.

Seriously, it's not free market anymore. We don't need to pay $15/hour to a guy sweeping the floor. You don't live on a minimum wage salary, you get better and move beyond it.
---

GreatEvilEmpire posted...

$15 dollars for low skilled jobs means everyone, and I mean everyone's food is about to get more expensive

this part is true: food service is typically the highest ratio of labor cost: revenue of all businesses that hire people at or near minimum wage
---

ChromaticAngel posted...

The magic boats let people sail to other businesses and spend money there that they otherwise wouldn't have so all businesses make more profit from increased demand.

What money will they have to spend? Everyone who has a job that isn't worth paying $15/hr will get fired.
---

Imagine thinking that increasing everyone's minimum wage to $15/hr will have no repercussions.
---

This is stupid. The country is too large with too many economies to randomly pull $15 out of your ass and say it should be the minimum wage. In some places you'll live like a king on 15/hour. In other places, your still renting a studio apartment with three roommates.
---

You know what's the funny thing...because it's $15/hour now, businesses can hire more skilled workers. College graduates will start competing for those jobs and the low-skilled works will be left out in the cold.

Automation technology will also start accelerating. There are already restaurants in San Francisco that has automated services because of the increase in minimum wage. Many bookstores closed because it as well.

Forcing businesses to pay more will result in more startup companies to start focusing on robotics and restaurant automation. It's only a matter of time before they can replace humans altogether and then people will bitch about automation taking their jobs.
---

If that happens, I lose my job.

Darkman124 posted...

and 7.25/hr full time is probably not livable when a 2br apt is 1350 in atlanta. 1200/mo pretax means your half of the rent is more than 50% of your gross income.

If you're big enough of a moron to rent a 2 bedroom apartment at $7.25 an hour, or even a 1 bedroom for that matter, then it's little wonder employers are only paying you the legal minimum in the first place.

GreatEvilEmpire posted...

You know what's the funny thing...because it's $15/hour now, businesses can hire more skilled workers. College graduates will start competing for those jobs and the low-skilled works will be left out in the cold.

Yeah, in a lot cases you will essentially be taking away the only thing that low or unskilled workers have to compete against more skilled/educated workers - their willingness to work or less.

Applicant: "I know I don't really have much education or any work history, so I'm willing to work for $12/hour instead."
Employer: "Nope, Bernie Sanders knows what's in your best interest. No job for you."
---

the real solution is to make $15 the minimum wage but then make every position that currently pays below the minimum wage a tip based profession so instead they get paid the $1.69 or whatever that they pay servers and encourage people to earn tips to make up the difference

reward skill with money, then prices don't need to go up on my hamburger :)
---

When will they learn that a job is not welfare.
---

We need a universal basic income. AI/machines are going to take just about every bootstrap job sooner rather than later and regardless of what we do with the minimum wage. That's only a bad thing if we continue to need every last person on Earth to have a skilled job to live.
---

Whenever this topic comes up I love how it's ignored that the federal minimum wage hasn't been increased in almost a decade (2009 if I recall correctly) and that in most places that already buys jack shit. Not to mention that never in the history of minimum wages as has the increase in prices been at a 1:1 ratio, all the fear mongering that suddenly the economy will crash is propaganda from corporations that tend to turn a better profit when the government basically subsidizes their low wages.
---

these dumbasses dont realize that with a 15 minimum wage that the wage increase will make the cost of items go up so it will still end up feeling like 9 an hour.
---

Krojen posted...

We need a universal basic income. AI/machines are going to take just about every bootstrap job sooner rather than later and regardless of what we do with the minimum wage. That's only a bad thing if we continue to need every last person on Earth to have a skilled job to live.

This, A UBI would solve most of the problems brought up in this thread. Make it unconditional with the option to defer it and call it a day.
---

People should be paid fairly for the work they do, not what some politician decides.
---

Darkman124 posted...

GreatEvilEmpire posted...

$15 dollars for low skilled jobs means everyone, and I mean everyone's food is about to get more expensive

this part is true: food service is typically the highest ratio of labor cost: revenue of all businesses that hire people at or near minimum wage

This is why fast food places like Wendys and Hardee's/Carl JRs are rolling out self serve order kiosks. They've seen the writing on the wall and are already working to automatize as much as possible to keep labor costs down.
---

Awesome posted...

these dumbasses dont realize that with a 15 minimum wage that the wage increase will make the cost of items go up so it will still end up feeling like 9 an hour.

you say that like the cost of items aren't already going up. and 9 is still more than a lot of people get so even if it "Feels like 9" it'll still feel like more to much of the nation.....so im not sure what point you're trying to make with that one. I agree with it varying state to state. the main problem is many states' leadership won't even entertain the idea unless there is a federal intervention.....I get that 15 may sound like a lot for a smaller state....what's crazy is its still below the cost of living in California. a 2 person household, each making 15 an hour can just barely get by month to month.

Darkman124 posted...

DirtyAim posted...

I struggled to get to where I am right now at $22/hr. It's been a hard-fought battle for me due to my background.
Making minimum wage $15/hr. makes my hard work feel like it was for nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

DirtyAim posted...

The cost of living will just go up to compensate. That's just how it works.

source: your ass

that is not how it works and if you respond to me using the word "inflation" i will hurt you.

Higher wages = higher cost of living... this is pretty much the case everywhere and anytime the min wage has been raised. If the cost of production goes up, the sales margins will need to rise to compensate for it. That is the 'best' case scenario; however other things will come into play with a substantially higher (and quickly raised) min wage.

For one thing, tax breaks for those who were making min wage will no longer be in place for them. No more food stamps, etc, and this also means a higher tax bracket (more income for the government). A person making min wage now may actually be better off now than with a massive min wage increase.

The next thing that could happen is that the employer will do whatever possible to cut costs. So not only will they raise prices to compensate, but they will also try to replace more people with less people. In other words; job cuts are very likely.


In other words; a fast increase to $15... is a failure waiting to happen. If they took 10+ years or so, the economy will be able to handle the gradual shift much better.
---

MaverickXeo posted...

In other words; a fast increase to $15... is a failure waiting to happen. If they took 10+ years or so, the economy will be able to handle the gradual shift much better.

As opposed to how great we've been doing with no substantial increases and prices ballooning regardless /s
---

This would fuck the bottom of the labor force in places like Mississippi so hard.
---