Current Events > Disney shouldn't have thrown out the Star Wars extended universe

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'd rather that than a retread of A New Hope and whatever Rouge One was.
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It still exists
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they should have kept it as an alternate universe. like how Marvel had 616 and Ultimate for a while. now there will never be closure to characters people followed like their whole lives

frozenshock posted...

It still exists

yes but it's frozen in time now.

I see what you are saying. Hopefully the past is fair game though. Is the old Republic still somewhat canon? They allow the EA game to still exist and be supported with regular new content
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The old EU (now called Legends) wasn't new consumer friendly. Plus, lots of it was just plain garbage. It'd be nice if they released some stuff to tie up any loose ends from Legends, but I understand why they wanted to start fresh.

There was a huge amount of complete shit that I was definitely not sad to see go.
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Zikten posted...

frozenshock posted...

It still exists

yes but it's frozen in time now.

Not really, they just created a different timeline basically
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frozenshock posted...

Not really, they just created a different timeline basically

no. its over. there will never be another novel written in that timeline. the timeline is now a finished story. except it didn't really get closure cause the writers didn't know the end was coming. I wouldn't mind as much if they had planned to end it, and set up a proper finale to it. but they didn't. it just stops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVzc20Bm8Xo

Yes, they absolutely should have
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glitteringfairy posted...

Is the old Republic still somewhat canon? They allow the EA game to still exist and be supported with regular new content

its not canon. they only let it continue cause it makes money still. it's the last vestige of the expanded universe, given a special exception cause of money. but nothing that happens in that game will ever impact outside the game.

what I really hope is that at least disney fills in the gap between episodes 6 and 7 and has a bunch of cool stories. cause right now, it seems like barely anything happened in the galaxy for 30 years.

GOATTHlEF posted...

Yeah, let's keep Triclops, son of Palpatine as canon. Or the dude with lightsaber knees.

At least this way they can reintroduce the cool old legends stuff like Thrawn, or the noghri slowly into canon again without taking the 90% shitty material as well.

The Triclops/Trioculus/Prophets of the Dark Side storyline was weeeeeiird. The fact that Triclops had a son who tagged around with the main heroes without doing anything except having some title ouf ot left field like Prince of all Jedi was even more weeeeeiiird.

Agree with the second pat. Thrawn was awesome, probably THE best Legends material to be salvaged. Noghri could work well but that thing about being Vader's personal assassin squads might have to be fine-tuned or changed or something, I think.
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

There was a huge amount of complete shit that I was definitely not sad to see go.

I mean yeah take out the shit but the stuff that happens after Return of the Jedi with Palpatine Coming back from the dead, Luke turning to the darkside, and Mara Jade are my favorite stuff in Star Wars. I know this was never gonna be filmed cause everyone is too old and Carrie is dead but I wanted to at least see it in a TV show or something
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GameofWheels posted...

Palpatine Coming back from the dead, Luke turning to the darkside, and Mara Jade are my favorite stuff in Star Wars

lmao irl
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ASithLord7 posted...

GameofWheels posted...

Palpatine Coming back from the dead, Luke turning to the darkside, and Mara Jade are my favorite stuff in Star Wars

lmao irl

??
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GOATTHlEF posted...

Or the dude with lightsaber knees.

New canon has already done silly shit like this though. The Inquisitors on Star Wars Rebels for instance using their lightsabers as helicopter blades so they can fly around.

Dumb.

As far as the EU is concerned just, none of it matters. If they had kept the original EU, they would have retconned the shit out of it eventually. They'll also retcon the shit out of the new EU too, it'll just take longer because there's less of it so things won't conflict as soon.

The best way to deal with this stuff and stay sane is to just read/watch/listen to whatever parts of the EU(s) you enjoy accepting it might not be canon and if one day it appears in a movie, chalk it up as a win.
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Bringit posted...

GOATTHlEF posted...

Or the dude with lightsaber knees.

New canon has already done silly shit like this though. The Inquisitors on Star Wars Rebels for instance using their lightsabers as helicopter blades so they can fly around.

Dumb.

As far as the EU is concerned just, none of it matters. If they had kept the original EU, they would have retconned the shit out of it eventually. They'll also retcon the shit out of the new EU too, it'll just take longer because there's less of it so things won't conflict as soon.

The best way to deal with this stuff and stay sane is to just read/watch/listen to whatever parts of the EU(s) you enjoy accepting it might not be canon and if one day it appears in a movie, chalk it up as a win.

Either way it goes Star Wars will still have huge ass plot holes
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Bringit posted...

New canon has already done silly shit like this though. The Inquisitors on Star Wars Rebels for instance using their lightsabers as helicopter blades so they can fly around.

Dumb.

hey it works in Gundam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US1KkVrfSQY
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GameofWheels posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

GameofWheels posted...

Palpatine Coming back from the dead, Luke turning to the darkside, and Mara Jade are my favorite stuff in Star Wars

lmao irl

??

its non canon therefore rebel hates it, just ignore him

Thrawn trilogy, the X-Wing series, and some assorted other novels and games are the best Star Wars has to offer though
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DarthAragorn posted...

GameofWheels posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

GameofWheels posted...

Palpatine Coming back from the dead, Luke turning to the darkside, and Mara Jade are my favorite stuff in Star Wars

lmao irl

??

its non canon therefore rebel hates it, just ignore him

Thrawn trilogy, the X-Wing series, and some assorted other novels and games are the best Star Wars has to offer though

Lmao I saw it was rebel but I wanted him to explain himself. I expected too much. Thrawn should be made into a movie.
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I liked both the new ones. The extended universe was ridiculously bloated and unwieldy. There was pretty much no way to cannon-weld fifty years of disparate novels, games, and comic books together at this point.

TFA was a bit of a re-tread, but it had enough new stuff to be enjoyable for me. Most stories are rehashes, to be honest. On top of that, it was exactly what it needed to be to keep Star Wars going. It was a safe bet and I understand it. They did, however, play with a few of the tropes and I appreciated that.

Rouge One was really enjoyable but was the least 'Star Wars' Star Wars film I could imagine. At first, I was honestly super skeptical. I felt like it was a story we didn't need an answer to. I hate prequels. I felt like there was no good way to handle Darth Vader. They pulled it together, though, and made an interesting story with some cool characters. I absolutely hated Admiral Tarkin, though.

Really, I feel like people have some ridiculous expectations because the series is such a long-runner. They want something completely new, so we get the Prequel trilogy, which was considered trash because it was so different from the originals (and the acting was shaky). So instead they play it safe and give us a classic adventure story with some great graphics and lots of nods to nostalgia. Now everyone complains that it is garbage because it's to similar. It's a classic unpleasable fanbase.

GameofWheels posted...

DarthAragorn posted...

GameofWheels posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

GameofWheels posted...

Palpatine Coming back from the dead, Luke turning to the darkside, and Mara Jade are my favorite stuff in Star Wars

lmao irl

??

its non canon therefore rebel hates it, just ignore him

Thrawn trilogy, the X-Wing series, and some assorted other novels and games are the best Star Wars has to offer though

Lmao I saw it was rebel but I wanted him to explain himself. I expected too much. Thrawn should be made into a movie.

palp coming back the dead is stupid but w/e cause lol comic books (even tho it probably wasnt a comic book)

luke turning to the dark side defeats the entire point of episode 6
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I know Disney apparently didn't like kotor bc ppl liked revan more than Vader and considered revan more powerful
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JSancton posted...

I know Disney apparently didn't like kotor bc ppl liked revan more than Vader and considered revan more powerful

more like Disney has no rights to anything kotor related since its a bioware ip
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As long as the Star Wars Holiday Special is still canon I'm ok.
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It's called "Legends" and it means they can turn any of it true as they see fit.

They have done this a lot already with people like Thrawn.
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I'm soooooooo glad they made it non canon. It's good to have a clean slate moving forward. It lets them do what they want with the universe and we don't have to worry about EU nerds spoiling everything and bitching about changes.
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

I'm soooooooo glad they made it non canon. It's good to have a clean slate moving forward. It lets them do what they want with the universe and we don't have to worry about EU nerds spoiling everything and bitching about changes.

In the EU Chewbacca was killed by being hit by a moon, is that something we really want to be cannon?
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joe40001 posted...

DarkChozoGhost posted...

I'm soooooooo glad they made it non canon. It's good to have a clean slate moving forward. It lets them do what they want with the universe and we don't have to worry about EU nerds spoiling everything and bitching about changes.

In the EU Chewbacca was killed by being hit by a moon, is that something we really want to be cannon?

Considering it was really badass, I wouldn't mind!

I loved parts of the EU (X-Wing stuff, New Jedi Order, Thrawn) but as soon as Disney bought Star Wars I knew they'd be doing their own thing. The Legends stuff is still there to be read, we just won't be getting any more of it.

We did get a sort of closure to the EU with this novel though...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crucible_(novel)

...but it wasn't very good.
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Dash_Harber posted...

I liked both the new ones. The extended universe was ridiculously bloated and unwieldy. There was pretty much no way to cannon-weld fifty years of disparate novels, games, and comic books together at this point.

TFA was a bit of a re-tread, but it had enough new stuff to be enjoyable for me. Most stories are rehashes, to be honest. On top of that, it was exactly what it needed to be to keep Star Wars going. It was a safe bet and I understand it. They did, however, play with a few of the tropes and I appreciated that.

Rouge One was really enjoyable but was the least 'Star Wars' Star Wars film I could imagine. At first, I was honestly super skeptical. I felt like it was a story we didn't need an answer to. I hate prequels. I felt like there was no good way to handle Darth Vader. They pulled it together, though, and made an interesting story with some cool characters. I absolutely hated Admiral Tarkin, though.

Really, I feel like people have some ridiculous expectations because the series is such a long-runner. They want something completely new, so we get the Prequel trilogy, which was considered trash because it was so different from the originals (and the acting was shaky). So instead they play it safe and give us a classic adventure story with some great graphics and lots of nods to nostalgia. Now everyone complains that it is garbage because it's to similar. It's a classic unpleasable fanbase.

To be fair to the actors in the prequels, you're only as good as the material you're given. Most of dialogue in the prequels is garbage. I love and grew up with the prequels but r/prequelmemes is popular for a reason lol
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there is some good stuff in legends, but honestly it just makes sense to get rid of everything and then adapt the good stuff
the issues that are in TFA are the same issues the other 6 movies have, so eh
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GameofWheels posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

I liked both the new ones. The extended universe was ridiculously bloated and unwieldy. There was pretty much no way to cannon-weld fifty years of disparate novels, games, and comic books together at this point.

TFA was a bit of a re-tread, but it had enough new stuff to be enjoyable for me. Most stories are rehashes, to be honest. On top of that, it was exactly what it needed to be to keep Star Wars going. It was a safe bet and I understand it. They did, however, play with a few of the tropes and I appreciated that.

Rouge One was really enjoyable but was the least 'Star Wars' Star Wars film I could imagine. At first, I was honestly super skeptical. I felt like it was a story we didn't need an answer to. I hate prequels. I felt like there was no good way to handle Darth Vader. They pulled it together, though, and made an interesting story with some cool characters. I absolutely hated Admiral Tarkin, though.

Really, I feel like people have some ridiculous expectations because the series is such a long-runner. They want something completely new, so we get the Prequel trilogy, which was considered trash because it was so different from the originals (and the acting was shaky). So instead they play it safe and give us a classic adventure story with some great graphics and lots of nods to nostalgia. Now everyone complains that it is garbage because it's to similar. It's a classic unpleasable fanbase.

To be fair to the actors in the prequels, you're only as good as the material you're given. Most of dialogue in the prequels is garbage. I love and grew up with the prequels but r/prequelmemes is popular for a reason lol

Yeah, definitely. I'm just pointing out that the design of the prequels was pretty out there, and people complained it didn't feel like Star Wars (acting aside) and when TFA followed Star Wars mroe closely, they complained that it was too similar.

I'm sure a lot of the ideas were good, but I've also read that a lot of it was darker or more mature in tone. I don't think that fits Star Wars. Not everything that you watched as a kid needs an edgy adult-friendly update. Some things should remain focused on younger and less cynical audiences.

I both understand why they did it the way they did and resent them for it and think they could have gone a different route.

I was on record as early as 2007-08 saying that there would be no sequel trilogy (I didn't think George would make more, and didn't take into account a buyout), and also that I didn't want one precisely because I knew it would mess up the EU, which I'd invested far more time and money in compared to the movies. I didn't care about the buyout at all, but I was immediately hostile to the idea of a sequel trilogy for this reason.

I get why they would do it. The only way to justify an investment like that would be with new movies and fans. A sequel trilogy was the logical answer since it was already talked about as a thing, and considering the current trend of cash-cow film properties like Marvel, DC, and Harry Potter, it would make sense to make more films besides that. It might be different if it had started as a book or comic, but Star Wars started as a film series, and those movies have remained the centerpiece in the mainstream public eye, so new movies would always take precedence over everything else.

At the same time, it made sense from an economic perspective to both continue creating the EU and to reboot it. It would be incredibly unwieldy to try to force new movies to conform to the EU as it was, so it made more sense to simply ignore it. This would be even more true if their main target for any new EU was new fans brought in by the new movies. They would focus on new canon to help along those new fans.

But to me and to many others who were invested in the EU, warts and all, it felt like they were disrespecting that investment, which, as I mentioned earlier, was literally financial as well as emotional. Many Star Wars books, games, and comics sold quite well; it wasn't like they weren't making money. Some of us like the TC and myself feel like it would have been better to have two timelines. There was no financial reason why they couldn't. That way everyone could have gotten new material, and more overall would be produced.

I think there are two main reasons why they didn't do this, one of which I think was somewhat more justifiable than the other. The less justifiable reason is because, as I said, Star Wars is thought of primarily as a film series. Multiverses are common in other media, but Star Wars had never been like that; indeed, the old canon rules actively subordinated everything under the films, and the canonicity of the EU had people arguing for and against for years, largely depending on taste. I feel like this is mostly a mental barrier, though; they didn't make a multiverse because they were used to not having a multiverse, and they were used to caring less about the EU. It would not have been difficult to change this position.

However, I think there is (some) merit to another argument; that they wanted to devote their talent pool to the new EU. It wouldn't be practical to have Zahn and Luceno and the others alternate between universes; it would water them down and decrease their output in both versions. They could have (and I argue should have) simply recruited more talent (something they should have been doing anyway) and let people write what they want in whichever canon they wanted. I imagine most would want to write for the new canon, but I'm sure some old and new would occasionally want to write something for the old. This would slow down old EU output but not end it, and would allow those fans who cared, whether they were longtime followers or new fans who found the old stuff, to enjoy the rich tapestry that already existed.

I still have (very faint) hopes that at some point this might be done, but I expect it to be very unlikely simply due to inertia. Ultimately the more time passes the less economic and cultural sense it will make to revive the old stuff. It's unfortunate because done right, I see no reason why it couldn't work.

ManSpread posted...

JSancton posted...

I know Disney apparently didn't like kotor bc ppl liked revan more than Vader and considered revan more powerful

more like Disney has no rights to anything kotor related since its a bioware ip

Dawg they've added quite a few things from KOTOR in canon lol. Disney/Lucasfilm owns everything Star Wars.

GameofWheels posted...

Either way it goes Star Wars will still have huge ass plot holes

Gimme some plot holes in canon, I'm bored.
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why? lucas himself ignored it.
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Dash_Harber posted...

GameofWheels posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

I liked both the new ones. The extended universe was ridiculously bloated and unwieldy. There was pretty much no way to cannon-weld fifty years of disparate novels, games, and comic books together at this point.

TFA was a bit of a re-tread, but it had enough new stuff to be enjoyable for me. Most stories are rehashes, to be honest. On top of that, it was exactly what it needed to be to keep Star Wars going. It was a safe bet and I understand it. They did, however, play with a few of the tropes and I appreciated that.

Rouge One was really enjoyable but was the least 'Star Wars' Star Wars film I could imagine. At first, I was honestly super skeptical. I felt like it was a story we didn't need an answer to. I hate prequels. I felt like there was no good way to handle Darth Vader. They pulled it together, though, and made an interesting story with some cool characters. I absolutely hated Admiral Tarkin, though.

Really, I feel like people have some ridiculous expectations because the series is such a long-runner. They want something completely new, so we get the Prequel trilogy, which was considered trash because it was so different from the originals (and the acting was shaky). So instead they play it safe and give us a classic adventure story with some great graphics and lots of nods to nostalgia. Now everyone complains that it is garbage because it's to similar. It's a classic unpleasable fanbase.

To be fair to the actors in the prequels, you're only as good as the material you're given. Most of dialogue in the prequels is garbage. I love and grew up with the prequels but r/prequelmemes is popular for a reason lol

Yeah, definitely. I'm just pointing out that the design of the prequels was pretty out there, and people complained it didn't feel like Star Wars (acting aside) and when TFA followed Star Wars mroe closely, they complained that it was too similar.

It basically copied the plot from A New Hope which is why so many people complained. Personally, I want Star Wars to do something new. The franchise has potential for many awesome things but Disney, and I guess other fans want a retread of the OT. Nothing wrong with that, and I'll be the first to say that the EU had no quality control, but there was new things that added to the mythos and story that I found pretty cool.
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"TFA was similar to ANH therefore all the new canon is a retread of the OT"

Hurpa durpa durr
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I agree with TC.

ASithLord7 posted...

ManSpread posted...

JSancton posted...

I know Disney apparently didn't like kotor bc ppl liked revan more than Vader and considered revan more powerful

more like Disney has no rights to anything kotor related since its a bioware ip

Dawg they've added quite a few things from KOTOR in canon lol. Disney/Lucasfilm owns everything Star Wars.
.

like what? granted the only "new" stuff ive seen is TFA/RO, none of the comics or games
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ASithLord7 posted...

"TFA was similar to ANH therefore all the new canon is a retread of the OT"

Hurpa durpa durr

If you had learned how to read in Elementary School with the rest of us you would have realized that we were talking about The Force Awakens not the entire new canon.
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GameofWheels posted...

Personally, I want Star Wars to do something new.

They did. The prequels were awful and you claimed to hate RO.

GameofWheels posted...

The franchise has potential for many awesome things but Disney, and I guess other fans want a retread of the OT.

It's not a complete retread. Some of the stuff was played around with. There were obvious parallels. It wasn't so much that we all wanted it to be the same, it's that the show needed a clean start since it's been 30 years.

GameofWheels posted...

Nothing wrong with that, and I'll be the first to say that the EU had no quality control, but there was new things that added to the mythos and story that I found pretty cool.

Give it a chance. The new series had some new stuff too. The Last Jedi might shake up the status quo; there are hints at a rebalancing of the force. On top of that, the villain was a deconstruction of Vader, and the heroes were quite a bit different (one of the heroes was a stormtrooper, one was an elite pilot, etc). I mean, sure, water them down enough and they look alike, but there are some serious differences (for example, Poe is nothing like Han; he is an elite pilot, loyal to the rebellion/resistance, and seems to be loyal and have lots of friends right off the bat, which is a huge difference between the cocky, loner Han).