Current Events > Help with programming graphics/GUIs? Familiar with C# and Java

(+) Yeah! (+)

So I'm trying to learn skills to make myself more marketable as a software developer (trying to change careers)

I have very little experience with GUIs and graphics and I'm trying to learn "the basics", at a very low level (so I have an understanding of how things actually work)


My problem is, I can't really find any tutorials or documentation on this, and everywhere just points to using some pre-built library or (which I know is how a real life situation would work). Primarily working with C# recently and I'm practicing using windows forms--is that basically as low as I need to go in C#?

What I'm gathering is the whole point of C# and the .NET framework is that you don't need to know how things actually work? But say I wanted to build some application totally from scratch (other than basic System libraries), how would I go about learning that?
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Im learning this myself atm, albeit slowly

Generally an app nowadays should be web based, so for that you want html/css/javascript and your pick of php/python/ruby (pref php)

For windows development youll want c# and the .net framework, and youll want to work within visual studio (their community edition is the full product, free to individuals and companies that make less than $1 million a year)

For cross platform not web apps, youll want either java or c++ with a gui framework like Qt, but this is a painful road to travel


Learning it from scratch depends on the framework. I think .net and qt are simple enough, but youll probably never want to use anything other than a wysiwyg editor for gui development. Its the opposite of web development where you never want a wysiwyg editor
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Disregard everything Rika_Furude said.

You can build web apps with .NET. In fact that's one of its most common uses. If you're building a new web app, you want to stay away from php. Stick with Python or Java/Scala or C# or Go.
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so would C# with ASP.NET for web development be a good thing to learn?

i'm basically trying to learn some practical skills so i can put together a few projects for a portfolio
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disregard everything meingott said.

If you were going for web development I would stick with one of the big 3 languages atm that I mentioned (PHP or Python or Ruby, along with the core web parts HTML/CSS/JavaScript) for the simple fact that if you ever want to start freelancing as a web developer, you won't need windows server licensing to run your asp.net web app on.
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I wouldn't go with ASP.NET, but PHP seems like a nightmare. Why would you want to use it? Sure it'll get you jobs, but so will Python.

But here's an even bigger question - if you're looking to become a marketable software developer, why are you getting into GUIs and graphics? And specifically, why are you looking to get into the very low level stuff?
If you're seriously looking to get into web dev, though, Javascript will probably get you the most jobs. And while "Disregard everything Rika_Furude says" is good advice in general, he's not really wrong here.

But if you want to make an application completely from scratch, look into C/C++ and window management. You'll need to do things differently on Windows and other platforms, though.
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scar the 1 posted...

but PHP seems like a nightmare. Why would you want to use it? Sure it'll get you jobs, but so will Python.

modern php is actually quite good. everything you need for web development is core in the language rather than having to learn various frameworks etc
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Rika_Furude posted...

scar the 1 posted...

but PHP seems like a nightmare. Why would you want to use it? Sure it'll get you jobs, but so will Python.

modern php is actually quite good. everything you need for web development is core in the language rather than having to learn various frameworks etc

That sounds cool. But I'm still not sure why I would pick it over Python, unless a specific job I want requires it.
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scar the 1 posted...

And while "Disregard everything Rika_Furude says" is good advice in general, he's not really wrong here.

i hear this every time i give advice. stop this gimmick please
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Rika_Furude posted...

scar the 1 posted...

And while "Disregard everything Rika_Furude says" is good advice in general, he's not really wrong here.

i hear this every time i give advice. stop this gimmick please

Haven't seen you give a lot of advice. I've seen you share some terrible (and sometimes flat out wrong) opinions, but this I think is the first time I see you giving advice. And to your credit, it's not bad.
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scar the 1 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

scar the 1 posted...

And while "Disregard everything Rika_Furude says" is good advice in general, he's not really wrong here.

i hear this every time i give advice. stop this gimmick please

Haven't seen you give a lot of advice. I've seen you share some terrible (and sometimes flat out wrong) opinions, but this I think is the first time I see you giving advice. And to your credit, it's not bad.

people can have opinions you personally disagree with and still have sound advice...
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scar the 1 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

scar the 1 posted...

but PHP seems like a nightmare. Why would you want to use it? Sure it'll get you jobs, but so will Python.

modern php is actually quite good. everything you need for web development is core in the language rather than having to learn various frameworks etc

That sounds cool. But I'm still not sure why I would pick it over Python, unless a specific job I want requires it.

it depends on TCs overall goal. If he wants to learn web development so he can put some work in a portfolio, php is generally better. If you want to develop a website and link it to a database, php is generally the best bet for that. Python is the better language I agree, but it's general purpose while php is specifically web. There is far more documentation available for PHP and it's frameworks than there are python and its web frameworks and other comparable languages

although I admit I know next to nothing about traditional desktop applications and "gui development", more and more stuff is becoming capable through the web.


If TC knows nothing about programming or very little, yeah I agree, start with Python. But not necessarily from a web perspective.
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Disregard everything anyone in this topic says*, you should be programming GUIs in MUMPs, hand-proving every loop invariant and database access for safety.

* including me
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Rika_Furude posted...

it depends on TCs overall goal. If he wants to learn web development so he can put some work in a portfolio, php is generally better. If you want to develop a website and link it to a database, php is generally the best bet for that. Python is the better language I agree, but it's general purpose while php is specifically web. There is far more documentation available for PHP and it's frameworks than there are python and its web frameworks and other comparable languages

although I admit I know next to nothing about traditional desktop applications and "gui development", more and more stuff is becoming capable through the web.


If TC knows nothing about programming or very little, yeah I agree, start with Python. But not necessarily from a web perspective.

Better in what sense? More documentation is a good point, but in terms of functionality, does the comfort of Python not offset the benefits of PHP considering it can do literally all the same things?

(even so, TC, Javascript is really the one that will get you the most jobs. Hands down)
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scar the 1 posted...

I wouldn't go with ASP.NET, but PHP seems like a nightmare. Why would you want to use it? Sure it'll get you jobs, but so will Python.

But here's an even bigger question - if you're looking to become a marketable software developer, why are you getting into GUIs and graphics? And specifically, why are you looking to get into the very low level stuff?
If you're seriously looking to get into web dev, though, Javascript will probably get you the most jobs. And while "Disregard everything Rika_Furude says" is good advice in general, he's not really wrong here.

But if you want to make an application completely from scratch, look into C/C++ and window management. You'll need to do things differently on Windows and other platforms, though.

I just see these lists of all the things employers say they want a candidate to have experience in and I'm only familiar with a few. Just trying to start somewhere

I'm just trying to get a knowledge of HOW things actually work, ya know? And then be able to build a few applications that demonstrate I know my shit

My biggest issue is I got my CS degree six years ago and have been doing unrelated work since
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FWIW, I'm a professional Software Engineer with over a dozen years of experience and I have not once ever created a "Desktop UI". That software methodology is pretty niche at this point.

You should learn web design, like HTML/CSS/Javascript, though, if you like doing UIs.

Or learn server-side programming (like me) and you'll have no shortages of job opportunities.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

FWIW, I'm a professional Software Engineer with over a dozen years of experience and I have not once ever created a "Desktop UI". That software methodology is pretty niche at this point.

You should learn web design, like HTML/CSS/Javascript, though, if you like doing UIs.

Or learn server-side programming (like me) and you'll have no shortages of job opportunities.

i guess backend stuff is probably what i'm more familiar with. data structures, databases/SQL type stuff?

my friend who's a dev says everything he does is from the console
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