Board 8 > Mercenaries 4 Mafia Topic 9: Zidane Sucks (Here's 20 reasons he WON'T Trance)

(+) Yeah! (+)

benjamin3740 posted...

Oddity is Obvtown. Death is obvtown. Lopen is obvtown (I gave a pretty good reason why at the start of this day). Basically we're in a really good position as long as we don't lynch those 3.

IGCD I think is town for his reactions to me when I faked him out. But he's kind of overdoing it now with his whole "kill me"thing to the point I'm worried about him, but not that heavily.

Mzero I think is town for how proud he felt of discovering The Slip and how confident he seemed with that. But just like IGCD, he's now overdoing it and being stubborn which slightly worries me.

Menu is either a really good faker or he's town. Not really liking him talking about being confirmed, but Ive been liking his input ever since he got here.

Basically I'm back down, from process of elimination, to the three I've been stuck on since yesterday. Tony, Scare, and Eaed. But I really can't pinpoint which of these I think is the likliest scum. None stand out as "Obvscum". AND I NEED OBV THINGS SO I CAN YELL ABOUT THEM IN ALL CAPS

Ben has been quick to call people "obvtown" all game but very reluctant to commit to scum reads. This is a scum-tell because obviously they know everyone's alignment, so to commit to a scum read they either have to lie or bury a teammate, both of which are harder than just saying a townie is town

Also, 2 town 1 scum rule? Lopen and death town, Oddity scum?
---

votals (#250)

[2] Tony - Ben, Oddity
[1] death - eaed
[1] Scare - Menu
[0] Oddity - (Menu)

5 to lynch, day ends in 7 hrs 20 min
---

MZero11 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

Oddity is Obvtown. Death is obvtown. Lopen is obvtown (I gave a pretty good reason why at the start of this day). Basically we're in a really good position as long as we don't lynch those 3.

IGCD I think is town for his reactions to me when I faked him out. But he's kind of overdoing it now with his whole "kill me"thing to the point I'm worried about him, but not that heavily.

Mzero I think is town for how proud he felt of discovering The Slip and how confident he seemed with that. But just like IGCD, he's now overdoing it and being stubborn which slightly worries me.

Menu is either a really good faker or he's town. Not really liking him talking about being confirmed, but Ive been liking his input ever since he got here.

Basically I'm back down, from process of elimination, to the three I've been stuck on since yesterday. Tony, Scare, and Eaed. But I really can't pinpoint which of these I think is the likliest scum. None stand out as "Obvscum". AND I NEED OBV THINGS SO I CAN YELL ABOUT THEM IN ALL CAPS

Ben has been quick to call people "obvtown" all game but very reluctant to commit to scum reads. This is a scum-tell because obviously they know everyone's alignment, so to commit to a scum read they either have to lie or bury a teammate, both of which are harder than just saying a townie is town

Also, 2 town 1 scum rule? Lopen and death town, Oddity scum?

This is just me every game. I'm better at finding "obvtown" than I am finding scum, unless they pull a claim like Kanz' and react to stuff the way Kanz did. That one was pretty easy for me to be decisive on. I mean, I havent even been doing that bad this game. I called Tony and Scare as Scum a long time ago, and unless I'm way off base, I think it's still them.
---

Someone help me out here... has anyone called Oddity Town this game besides Kanz and Ben? That's pretty alarming if so
---

I said Oddity feels town because he acted this way during CT mafia.
---

benjamin3740 posted...

It's not a countervote. I had you on my scumlist yesterday too... And if you want the quick and fast reason why I want to kill you today over Eaed or Scare, it's because they have claims that give me a bit of pause, but all three of you haven't given me a single reason to think you're Town all game.

Lopen makes a couple huge posts, and then Ben says


benjamin3740 posted...

Thanks for that post of yours Lopen. It did point out a few things from Tony that I like. Also reminded me why I liked johnbob before your scan....how kanz was so adamant about killing him. Maybe Scare or Eaed is a better option than Tony today, but I still want to hear Tony's reasons for his recent comments.

later on the same page...

benjamin3740 posted...

Unvote Recent points brought have convinced me off of Tony. It's just process of elimination that brought me to him anyway, and because I couldn't remember anything I liked from him. Not too fond of his reactions to my vote, since it was not a countervote but he had to make it look like one. Although I can see that reaction from a town Tony who REALLY is convinced im scum, and he already said he was biased, so his attitude could add up

He went from "you haven't given me a reason to think you're town all game" to "oh thanks Lopen that reminds me of some things about Tony that I like" to unvoting him. All in one page. Yet has been adamant about Death being Town since like Day 2. I don't like it

benjamin3740 posted...

My vote is just for pressuring purposes anyway. >_> thought I already stated that. And we're like 12 hours in

This one is in regards to voting Scare, and IGCD unovting for not wanting to be on the same lynch as Ben. Voting Scare but not committing to a read.

I hardly count these as calling Tony and Scare scum "a long time ago", since you backed off of them on yesterday (in game). The lack of commitment to scum reads contrasted to the conviction of your town reads in scummy

##Vote: Ben

I think this is the way to go today
---

Hey I'm well aware I'm one of the only guys insistent on Oddity being town. That's why I've had to stick up for him so much
---

eaedwards6400 posted...

I said Oddity feels town because he acted this way during CT mafia.

oh hi eaed

why are you on Death?
---

benjamin3740 posted...

Hey I'm well aware I'm one of the only guys insistent on Oddity being town. That's why I've had to stick up for him so much

Why are you so convinced you're right on your town reads like Death and Oddity but give up so easily on your scum reads? You have the rest of the game disagreeing with you on Oddity but defend him like a guard dog, but Lopen makes a couple posts on Tony and suddenly you have a change of heart.

Well actually I think I know why but humor me
---

topic 5:
- Oddity votes me, which was expected given his 'town' reads of Ben and Kanz and him wanting to keep Ben alive. but his suspicion of me seemed weak at that moment. He continues to stick up for him even as IGCD puts Ben back in the lead. However he does attention to John to drag him back to the forefront as well.

- Menu also likes Ben more than most, but he keeps his vote on Eaed during this time, he claims Eaed should get as much attention as someone like John and also that he is undecided on Kanz. Not great, though not necessarily awful. He did at least sound understandable of my position rather than vote me. Though that only says something if Ben is scum really.

- Johnbobb then votes me to put me back at the same number as Ben, which might have been when scum pushed things too far, given how some players reacted.

- Jaded votes me in the lead. He was town, but I am noting this for context. Heck when Jaded unvoted soon afterwards, I even made a post about me liking that reaction. Should listen to my past self more often. (It also felt good about IGCD). Menu and Oddity attack Jaded for it instead. (and Oddity is still playing backup for a lot of players others opinions)

- Now the interesting part starts. Leo shifts momentum by moving all his votes to John, Oddity immediately follows. Staying in character sure, but still a good look for him with such a swift response.

Menu still stayed on Eaed tho, despite not liking John
question for Menu
why did you vote Eaed early day2? when in your own words you sounded not 100 % sure

I don't know enough about Eaed to make a fair player call, but all he did yesterday was pop up when I voted him, answer my question, then leave. No additional input, nothing.

---

I could have seen Ben as scum a lot more if he was still in danger when Kanz started his crusade against John (maybe John was less valuable than Ben?)
But seeing now that Leo was the one who started it, there goes that theory
---

MZero11 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

It's not a countervote. I had you on my scumlist yesterday too... And if you want the quick and fast reason why I want to kill you today over Eaed or Scare, it's because they have claims that give me a bit of pause, but all three of you haven't given me a single reason to think you're Town all game.

Lopen makes a couple huge posts, and then Ben says


benjamin3740 posted...

Thanks for that post of yours Lopen. It did point out a few things from Tony that I like. Also reminded me why I liked johnbob before your scan....how kanz was so adamant about killing him. Maybe Scare or Eaed is a better option than Tony today, but I still want to hear Tony's reasons for his recent comments.

later on the same page...

benjamin3740 posted...

Unvote Recent points brought have convinced me off of Tony. It's just process of elimination that brought me to him anyway, and because I couldn't remember anything I liked from him. Not too fond of his reactions to my vote, since it was not a countervote but he had to make it look like one. Although I can see that reaction from a town Tony who REALLY is convinced im scum, and he already said he was biased, so his attitude could add up

He went from "you haven't given me a reason to think you're town all game" to "oh thanks Lopen that reminds me of some things about Tony that I like" to unvoting him. All in one page. Yet has been adamant about Death being Town since like Day 2. I don't like it

benjamin3740 posted...

My vote is just for pressuring purposes anyway. >_> thought I already stated that. And we're like 12 hours in

This one is in regards to voting Scare, and IGCD unovting for not wanting to be on the same lynch as Ben. Voting Scare but not committing to a read.

I hardly count these as calling Tony and Scare scum "a long time ago", since you backed off of them on yesterday (in game). The lack of commitment to scum reads contrasted to the conviction of your town reads in scummy

##Vote: Ben

I think this is the way to go today

Wow you and Tony both misreading that in the exact same way. I did not say I was "reminded" why Tony was town. It was johnbob that I got reminded about. The points Lopen brought up about Tony are things I had never noticed before.

I've made it very clear from the start that I was calling them scum due to process of elimination. Hence, there's been a lot of doubt in there. I didn't want to back off of them though. I was trying to decide who I wanted to kill more. The day was just ended by IGCD before I could settle on one
---

okay when was this?
I may be coming up on that soon
---

also Scare seems indisposed
hope his sickness didnt get worse
---

MZero11 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

Hey I'm well aware I'm one of the only guys insistent on Oddity being town. That's why I've had to stick up for him so much

Why are you so convinced you're right on your town reads like Death and Oddity but give up so easily on your scum reads? You have the rest of the game disagreeing with you on Oddity but defend him like a guard dog, but Lopen makes a couple posts on Tony and suddenly you have a change of heart.

Well actually I think I know why but humor me

I was just not as sure when it came to Tony than I have been with Death and Oddity. And I'm still not.
---

gut also says Oddity is town because he acts too reckless to be scum
mind you I will add everyone elses reads from this topic to my brain before I make a decision
---

MZero11 posted...

eaedwards6400 posted...

I said Oddity feels town because he acted this way during CT mafia.

oh hi eaed

why are you on Death?

I felt he was too willing to test my power when I felt like we were in a lylo scenario. I felt scum could use this argument to kill a town player and win the game
---

cont
- Tony comes back and wants to vote Oddity over John or Ben. Unclear info for now, but may be an important piece for a web if I can visualize one. Later when he gets pressed on this he explains that he wants to vote John too, but not when he has soi many votes on him already. a little gutsy.

- Ben brings up great points about how improper Kanz backup claim is, would he do this as scum?
- Menu finally swings to John since Jaded said he couldnt be around much longer. good use of a vote I'd say

- Another Johnpost for posterity

Not really feeling the arguments against Ben. Jaded I'm leaning against. Corrik/Kanz I'm still 50/50 on.

- Kanz comes back and makes a big show of not liking me, and offhandedly mentions that John and Tony are bad and lynchworthy too. Now John was one scum in his suspect list already. would he mention another (Tony)? He said Tony was bad for wasting a vote on Oddity. Bizarrely when IGCD brings up points against Oddity, Kanz is suddenly all interested in it.
---

Eaed I was just being forgetful, I now know its likely too late to test your poison (we cant assume that scum only has 2 members left, even if they did have an assassin apparently)
---

Topic title is accurate (tag from the grave)
---

Topic 6:
- John claims, he gets the wind taken out of his sails right away by Leo, so sadly reactions arent as telling. Even Kanz starts bussing him at this point. Hilariously that bites Kanz in the ass.
But some important responses:
- Ben cant decided what to make of the claim and is not interested?? He seems more interested in lynching Kanz. Now if only I could tell if Kanz was more important than John!
- Tony calls out Kanz for sounding fake about attacking John (again making a threeline conga of scumreactions if Tony is scum) and still refuses to vote since JB was too close to -1. But he does vote John eventually, to put him back in the lead with me. Naturally I like this.
- Scare wasnt around much, so I cant say that his vote on me was bad for the reason I assumed (him wanting John to live). Sadly if he is town, he wouldnt have been able to show that here either by voting John or Kanz

Honestly in the end scum was going to be lynched regardless and given that Tony didnt jump to me at the last second says something I think. More than Bens vote who was already on Kanz way earlier. Nobody could have predicted Kanz would get lynched
onto day3
---

htaeD posted...

Eaed I was just being forgetful, I now know its likely too late to test your poison (we cant assume that scum only has 2 members left, even if they did have an assassin apparently)

Even if this is the case there is really no reason to unvote you. Is it any different than not having a vote on amyone?
---

right now no
but its still odd
unless you still think Im scum
---

and also if you expect schedule issues around deadline
---

Mzero i see you calling Death town a lot. Is that a consensus you came to, or just the vibe from everyone else? If you changed your mind on him, i might have missed it
---

benjamin3740 posted...

Mzero i see you calling Death town a lot. Is that a consensus you came to, or just the vibe from everyone else? If you changed your mind on him, i might have missed it

I think I mentioned it but with the flips and information we have so far, Death doesn't fit as scum. He's also been picking it up since yesterday (in-game) and I feel better about him play wise. But mostly I just can't see him as scum with both Kanz and Johnbobb
---

eaedwards6400 posted...

htaeD posted...

Eaed I was just being forgetful, I now know its likely too late to test your poison (we cant assume that scum only has 2 members left, even if they did have an assassin apparently)

Even if this is the case there is really no reason to unvote you. Is it any different than not having a vote on amyone?

Yes and I think you should be a lot more careful with your vote if you're town
---

day 3
- Ben starts going after Jaded, Oddity becomes less sure of a Johnbobb lynch, Ben joins him on his sentiment that Lopen was too suspicious in defending Johnbobb (but to be fair, Leo started it)
- Tony still calls Johnbobb scum, still looking good here. He also calls out Bens wishy-washyness on John, to which Ben is forced to admit that he thinks John is town

- Inversely, Scare suspects not John but me still (granted, so did Lopen and Mzero), and he also still doesnt like eaedwards/tony/jaded

also a point Tony made about Ben

If Johnbob is scum:

Ben is scum, because Ben didn't vote Kanz Day 1, voted him late in the day 2 (after I'd unvoted because Corrik revealed he lied about his scan), and also because I remember Ben defending Johnbob early, when JB had made like 5 posts, one of which was a pretty egregious bandwagon vote onto me with Death.

Ben, you commented on the Kanz thing, but why did you defend Johnbobb day1 again?

also why didnt you vote John right away when Lopen revealed his 'watch'?
---

honestly in the end I am coming back around on Tony, and feeling conflicted about Ben/Oddity again
---

also UGH
we should have remembered that IGCd was taunted by Jaded
might have helped a little
---

well sorta done, cant get much out of day4 and the rest of day3
reading Lopens summaries etc next

and I have to ask myself, why did I like Ben again?
---

htaeD posted...

day 3
- Ben starts going after Jaded, Oddity becomes less sure of a Johnbobb lynch, Ben joins him on his sentiment that Lopen was too suspicious in defending Johnbobb (but to be fair, Leo started it)
- Tony still calls Johnbobb scum, still looking good here. He also calls out Bens wishy-washyness on John, to which Ben is forced to admit that he thinks John is town

- Inversely, Scare suspects not John but me still (granted, so did Lopen and Mzero), and he also still doesnt like eaedwards/tony/jaded

also a point Tony made about Ben

If Johnbob is scum:

Ben is scum, because Ben didn't vote Kanz Day 1, voted him late in the day 2 (after I'd unvoted because Corrik revealed he lied about his scan), and also because I remember Ben defending Johnbob early, when JB had made like 5 posts, one of which was a pretty egregious bandwagon vote onto me with Death.

Ben, you commented on the Kanz thing, but why did you defend Johnbobb day1 again?

also why didnt you vote John right away when Lopen revealed his 'watch'?

I dont even know why I bothered to open my mouth about Johnbob say 1. I basically didnt like that people singled him out above the other inactives, and I thought something dumb like "Johnbob feels too nice to be scum". I'd never played with him before. Most of the reasons people gave for voting him was meta-based, so I guess I just felt out of the loop

As for not voting him - He was always floating near -2. I said multiple times that whether Lopen is lying or not, he's not lying Town, and that Johnbob is 100% scum. So when the watch was claimed, he was absolutely the one I wanted dead that day. I just didnt feel the need to vote him when my vote didnt matter, and I dont bring people to -1 no matter what after what Rulerbob did.
---

And with all these points shown to me in Tony's defense... I kinda want to move to Scare instead. But then the question remains - Is there just one scum? And if two, who is the second (or even third) that I'm missing?

Well ##Unvote

##Vote: Scare for now. I really want him in here talking to us.
---

htaeD posted...

well sorta done, cant get much out of day4 and the rest of day3
reading Lopens summaries etc next

and I have to ask myself, why did I like Ben again?

You liked me because "soul read" because I'm town ;-;
---

I just hate when the people I suspect are inactives. There's no Scare around for me to argue with, so of course I'm not aggressive about my scum reads this game.

Every time I tell Tony that his argument against me is faulty, he doesn't reply. So I can never get a clear read on him either
---

voting me just to be here is useless ben, ive been here when I can be.

Im around for now, so who wants to know what from me
---

benjamin3740 posted...

I just hate when the people I suspect are inactives. There's no Scare around for me to argue with, so of course I'm not aggressive about my scum reads this game.

Every time I tell Tony that his argument against me is faulty, he doesn't reply. So I can never get a clear read on him either

I haven't had time to continue re-reading the old topics, but I can respond.

What did you say was faulty and why?
---

htaeD posted...

also Scare seems indisposed
hope his sickness didnt get worse

not only sick but I have a pinched nerve and can barely move. also yesterday was easter so was doing family stuff when I was up
---

Scare and I showing up at the same time responding to Ben, nice.

I feel like we haven't even interacted once this game? It sucks that I'm so busy, I feel like normally I can read you pretty well. (Wasn't it you in Hearthstone Mafia who I even guessed your exact flavor?)
---

no idea. and we havent interacted because you're scum and you want to keep your opinion on me open to mislynch me, while I just havent been around
---

the timing does seem questionable for Scare to show up only now
but I cant deny that this day falling on easter is terrible timing in itself
Scare, what are your thoughts?
---

just adding my own votals here (#292)

[2] Scare - Menu, Ben
[1] Tony - (Ben), Oddity
[1] Ben - Menu
[1] death - eaed
[0] Oddity - (Menu)
---

ehr pretend I said Mzero on Ben, not Menu
---

also Ben you are rather eager to secondvote people
---

htaeD posted...

the timing does seem questionable for Scare to show up only now
but I cant deny that this day falling on easter is terrible timing in itself
Scare, what are your thoughts?

I pretty much dont trust anyone. I am being less stubborn about you right now because I understand we need to come to conensus.
---

I can relate to the feeling at least
I find it hard to trust anyone besides Mzero
and thats mostly because Mzero didnt trust me a lot!
---

ScareChan posted...

no idea. and we havent interacted because

:

A

you're scum and you want to keep your opinion on me open to mislynch me,

B

[while] I just havent been around

Uh...which is it?

Bad Scare, bad. I'm on a roll with Oddity, but I can't deny this makes me want to lynch you today.

If you're Town, this kind of weak shit will lose us the game.
---

htaeD posted...

also Ben you are rather eager to secondvote people

When it's like 5 to lyc t mylo, I don't get why anyone is so eager to vote at all.
---

also I am worried about leaving my vote on anyone, given that I wont be around to remove it should something turn up before deadline

(Thank god, we're at even numbers though, so scum wont try to reach for a tiebreaker)
---

benjamin3740 posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Lmao whatever dude.

Reading Topic 4 I'm reminded exactly why both of you are scum. You guys both are so quick to call certain people Town when it's convenient, with really no evidence of it.

Post 7, Ben has 4 votes (Eaed, me, Leo x2), Lopen says "lots of people calling Ben scum, not a lot voting him".

You say "well I think he's Town".

Immediately afterwards, Ben makes maybe the scummiest bus post I've ever seen:

(Getting between these topics on mobile sucks ass btw, if these are fucked up, just remember that)
Ben posted...

And to Leo and IGCD calling me scum because I'm "not playing good"

If you want to see that, then vote Kanz. I think Kanz is for sure Scum. So there's my contribution.

I'm really feeling IGCD as scum too. Talk about a player who is playing differently... >_>

Here's Oddity's justification btw:

Chris posted the following:

Oh and Ben is almost certainly town for fake claiming miller with what appears to be an improper town/scum split since Dante as miller indicates admin scum team.

Strong reasoning that makes me think ben is town. I didn't catch it and I appreciated it when Chris did.

He also followed up with this:

Also Ben missed me noting I thought I'd be scum flavor wise page 1, thus negating his whole insider info angle even further. Flawed arguments tend to be town ones though.

So yeah Leo's looking pretty good for a lynch since a lot of that list came into shape. Also VI is probably a fiend just saying.

So yah, some of it is Chris' early read. But I follow his logic just fine and it makes sense to me.

Also, I thought the 'scan town' comment was just all sorts of blown out of proportion. I don't think it indicates alignment at all.

And IGCD responded with the EXACT problem I had with Ben (more on that in a sec).

IGCD posted

So you'll follow Chris in to believing Ben is likely town, even though its looking like he was wrong 2/3 of his reads?

The relation to Ben? I don't have the quote handy, but when the lynch jumped to Kanz, Ben said "all the people on Kanz look good, and if Johnbob is Town, all the people on him look bad."

Well after Johnbob flopped scum, conveniently, the people on him who he thought were scum he still thought were scum.

It's the inconsistency of scum who makes definitive reads and then is too scared to admit they were wrong.

Posting now so I don't lose this, gonna do a little more reading before bed.

First of all, I'm sorry I was so confident about Kanz. And I'm sorry Im so confidant about Oddity being town. I guess Death must be scum then too huh? I've been confident about him since the end of Day 1

What were the end of day votals on that day we lynched Kanz? I want to see if your claim is true or not. If it is, and you and scare were on Johnbob, then I guess that's just a coincidence. But I'm pretty sure there were others on him who I read much worse than you two at the time, like Jaded and Eaed, who I have definitely changed my mind on. PLUS, on day 2 I know for a fact I still had scare in like my top 3 town, due to the timing of his miller claim. So I think your claim against me here is highly inaccurate

This was one example where i feel you spread false info about me. Also the post where you said that I ignored Corrik's whole gambit with Kanz. I definitrly didn't ignore any of that and I pushed for Kanz lynch.
---