Current Events > are gamers entitled?

(+) Yeah! (+)

game content takes manpower to create. it ain't free.
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im entitled to criticize any game i pay for, yes.
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Yes, but also no.

Gamers are entitled when they complain about perfectly reasonable bugs that crop up or if the game is not exactly how they imagined it should be in their perfect fantasy. They're especially entitled when they're making dramatic statements to boycott a developer every week because said developer pushed back a release date or didn't include a specific feature in the game. I'm talking about your typical Xbox live teenager that talks about Gearbox like they're the Third Reich even though Daddy was the one who put his credit card on the table.

That said, gamers are not entitled when they complain about the following issues (in my opinion):
- Play2Win
- Games that are released on the market at full price but are apparently only 85% finished
- Downloadable content that you pay extra for but is basically core game material rather than add on material
- mobile gaming in general
- Online only play

There's a lot of horrible practises that are unfortunately profitable that have been made possible by the internet and that people seem to accept, and these practises make everything objectively worse.
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No, of course not.

A few like to act that way though.
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pinky0926 posted...

- Games that are released on the market at full price but are apparently only 85% finished

I agree with your other points but does this really happen?

and people like to complain about Paradox DLC but I think it's cool how they're still supporting their games years after release. CKII came out 5 years ago and it's still getting new content.
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MakoReizei posted...

pinky0926 posted...

- Games that are released on the market at full price but are apparently only 85% finished

I agree with your other points but does this really happen?

and people like to complain about Paradox DLC but I think it's cool how they're still supporting their games years after release. CKII came out 5 years ago and it's still getting new content.

It happens all the time
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MakoReizei posted...

pinky0926 posted...

- Games that are released on the market at full price but are apparently only 85% finished

I agree with your other points but does this really happen?

and people like to complain about Paradox DLC but I think it's cool how they're still supporting their games years after release. CKII came out 5 years ago and it's still getting new content.

Your average Bethesda game is so broken in the first few weeks after release that I largely suspect they're hoping the community at large will fill the role of beta testing for them.
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Yes, the whole "it's not stealing" argument is whack.
A significant percentage of gamers seem to use that arguement.
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LordRazziel posted...

Yes, the whole "it's not stealing" argument is whack.
A significant percentage of gamers seem to use that arguement.

This also. Technically it's not stealing, in the same way that a slap in the face is not technically getting punched in the face.
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pinky0926 posted...

MakoReizei posted...

pinky0926 posted...

- Games that are released on the market at full price but are apparently only 85% finished

I agree with your other points but does this really happen?

and people like to complain about Paradox DLC but I think it's cool how they're still supporting their games years after release. CKII came out 5 years ago and it's still getting new content.

Your average Bethesda game is so broken in the first few weeks after release that I largely suspect they're hoping the community at large will fill the role of beta testing for them.

From an efficiency standpoint, it's not a bad idea. Community testing is going to be much more thorough and effective than internal QA due to the sheer number of people playing the game and finding undocumented bugs.
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

From an efficiency standpoint, it's not a bad idea. Community testing is going to be much more thorough and effective than internal QA due to the sheer number of people playing the game and finding undocumented bugs.

This is true, but I think an overall shift in release standard has seeped in. Now we just expect games to be broken upon release, as if that's normal.
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LordRazziel posted...

Yes, the whole "it's not stealing" argument is whack.
A significant percentage of gamers seem to use that arguement.

What's not stealing?
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MakoReizei posted...

really happen?

Rock band 4 was half finished and completely buggy at first. Damn near unplayable

REMercsChamp posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Yes, the whole "it's not stealing" argument is whack.
A significant percentage of gamers seem to use that arguement.

What's not stealing?

He's talking about the way so many gamers casually pirate brand new releases despite approximately 23467 different ways to get your hands on the game legitimately and support the content creators, and then give a bunch of puddle-deep justifications for it all.
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spudger posted...

im entitled to criticize any game i pay for, yes.

Even unreasonably and illogically.
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Veggeta_MAX posted...

spudger posted...

im entitled to criticize any game i pay for, yes.

Even unreasonably and illogically.

anyone like that will complain regardless of purchase. but yes, especially so if you buy the game.
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pinky0926 posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Yes, the whole "it's not stealing" argument is whack.
A significant percentage of gamers seem to use that arguement.

What's not stealing?

He's talking about the way so many gamers casually pirate brand new releases despite approximately 23467 different ways to get your hands on the game legitimately and support the content creators, and then give a bunch of puddle-deep justifications for it all.

How's that stealing? They weren't going to buy the game anyway.
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REMercsChamp posted...

How's that stealing? They weren't going to buy the game anyway.

Oh god, here we go again...
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spudger posted...

Veggeta_MAX posted...

spudger posted...

im entitled to criticize any game i pay for, yes.

Even unreasonably and illogically.

anyone like that will complain regardless of purchase. but yes, especially so if you buy the game.

I feel this is wrong.
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REMercsChamp posted...

pinky0926 posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Yes, the whole "it's not stealing" argument is whack.
A significant percentage of gamers seem to use that arguement.

What's not stealing?

He's talking about the way so many gamers casually pirate brand new releases despite approximately 23467 different ways to get your hands on the game legitimately and support the content creators, and then give a bunch of puddle-deep justifications for it all.

How's that stealing? They weren't going to buy the game anyway.

then they have no business playing it.
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They have been getting fucked over by gaming companies for too long to be considered entitled.
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MakoReizei posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

pinky0926 posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Yes, the whole "it's not stealing" argument is whack.
A significant percentage of gamers seem to use that arguement.

What's not stealing?

He's talking about the way so many gamers casually pirate brand new releases despite approximately 23467 different ways to get your hands on the game legitimately and support the content creators, and then give a bunch of puddle-deep justifications for it all.

How's that stealing? They weren't going to buy the game anyway.

then they have no business playing it.

Why? It's 0 cost to the company because these guys weren't going to buy the game anyway. And like others have said, the games are too expensive. They can lower the prices if they want more people to buy it.
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REMercsChamp posted...

Why? It's 0 cost to the company because these guys weren't going to buy the game anyway. And like others have said, the games are too expensive. They can lower the prices if they want more people to buy it.

Content creator: *makes thing*
Content creator: "Ok guys, here's the condition if you want to enjoy the thing that I made. You just have to pay X. Since I made this thing, I feel it's ok for me to set the terms of its use."
Customer: "Well, I don't want to pay X."
Content creator: "Oh, well I'm sorry to hear that, but that's what it costs."
Customer: "Nah. I'm just going to enjoy the thing that you made, but not pay you for it."
Content creator: "But...that's not the deal. Like that's explicitly what I said you can't do, that's the one thing I said you can't do really."
Customer: "What? You haven't lost anything out of this. I just want to have it. Give it to me."

^Pirating games in a nutshell.
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pinky0926 posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Why? It's 0 cost to the company because these guys weren't going to buy the game anyway. And like others have said, the games are too expensive. They can lower the prices if they want more people to buy it.

Content creator: *makes thing*
Content creator: "Ok guys, here's the condition if you want to enjoy the thing that I made. You just have to pay X. Since I made this thing, I feel it's ok for me to set the terms of its use."
Customer: "Well, I don't want to pay X."
Content creator: "Oh, well I'm sorry to hear that, but that's what it costs."
Customer: "Nah. I'm just going to enjoy the thing that you made, but not pay you for it."
Content creator: "But...that's not the deal."
Customer: "What? You haven't lost anything out of this. I just want to have it. Give it to me."

^Pirating games in a nutshell.

And what about people who want to play the game but can't afford it/don't want to pay for it? They're just pathetic pieces of shit according to you, right?
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"hmm this looks interesting" *tries to pirate*
"wtf no working downloads. i suppose i can buy the game?...... nah fuck it"
*moves on to something else*



oh wait. doormats think potential sales is a thing cos they were fed some bullshit article written by people in this scam industry.
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REMercsChamp posted...

pinky0926 posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Why? It's 0 cost to the company because these guys weren't going to buy the game anyway. And like others have said, the games are too expensive. They can lower the prices if they want more people to buy it.

Content creator: *makes thing*
Content creator: "Ok guys, here's the condition if you want to enjoy the thing that I made. You just have to pay X. Since I made this thing, I feel it's ok for me to set the terms of its use."
Customer: "Well, I don't want to pay X."
Content creator: "Oh, well I'm sorry to hear that, but that's what it costs."
Customer: "Nah. I'm just going to enjoy the thing that you made, but not pay you for it."
Content creator: "But...that's not the deal."
Customer: "What? You haven't lost anything out of this. I just want to have it. Give it to me."

^Pirating games in a nutshell.

And what about people who want to play the game but can't afford it/don't want to pay for it? They're just pathetic pieces of shit according to you, right?

I want lots of things I can't afford. Turns out I don't just get to have those things because I want them.

And bullshit, to be honest. Most pirates very much can afford the games they pirate, and frankly if piracy wasn't an option you can bet people would be buying a lot more.

Now if you had made the argument that games companies and the industry were not providing a great service that can compete with the convenience of piracy and that their anti-consumer tactics of DRM are plain unethical I could see your point, although that's largely done away with thanks to Steam and changes of recent years to much of this. But we both know that's not really why you pirate, and neither does financial solvency.
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pinky0926 posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

pinky0926 posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Why? It's 0 cost to the company because these guys weren't going to buy the game anyway. And like others have said, the games are too expensive. They can lower the prices if they want more people to buy it.

Content creator: *makes thing*
Content creator: "Ok guys, here's the condition if you want to enjoy the thing that I made. You just have to pay X. Since I made this thing, I feel it's ok for me to set the terms of its use."
Customer: "Well, I don't want to pay X."
Content creator: "Oh, well I'm sorry to hear that, but that's what it costs."
Customer: "Nah. I'm just going to enjoy the thing that you made, but not pay you for it."
Content creator: "But...that's not the deal."
Customer: "What? You haven't lost anything out of this. I just want to have it. Give it to me."

^Pirating games in a nutshell.

And what about people who want to play the game but can't afford it/don't want to pay for it? They're just pathetic pieces of shit according to you, right?

I want lots of things I can't afford. Turns out I don't just get to have those things because I want them.

And bullshit, to be honest. Most pirates very much can afford the games they pirate, and frankly if piracy wasn't an option you can bet people would be buying a lot more.

Now if you had made the argument that games companies and the industry were not providing a great service that can compete with the convenience of piracy and that their anti-consumer tactics of DRM are plain unethical I could see your point, although that's largely done away with thanks to Steam and changes of recent years to much of this. But we both know that's not really why you pirate, and neither does financial solvency.

Dude, what don't you fucking understand exactly?

They weren't going to buy the game anyway
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pinky0926 posted...

if piracy wasn't an option you can bet people would be buying a lot more.

lmao doormats actually believe this
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ModLogic posted...

"hmm this looks interesting" *tries to pirate*
"wtf no working downloads. i suppose i can buy the game?...... nah fuck it"
*moves on to something else*

oh wait. doormats think potential sales is a thing cos they were fed some bullshit article written by people in this scam industry.

Good thing pretty much every games release comes with a free demo for you to play if you like, doesn't it?

Let's be honest. You'd rather spend $0 than $15, so you choose $0. Feeding me some trumped up argument about how it's expanding your interest in the games industry or whatever is horseshit.
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REMercsChamp posted...

pinky0926 posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Why? It's 0 cost to the company because these guys weren't going to buy the game anyway. And like others have said, the games are too expensive. They can lower the prices if they want more people to buy it.

Content creator: *makes thing*
Content creator: "Ok guys, here's the condition if you want to enjoy the thing that I made. You just have to pay X. Since I made this thing, I feel it's ok for me to set the terms of its use."
Customer: "Well, I don't want to pay X."
Content creator: "Oh, well I'm sorry to hear that, but that's what it costs."
Customer: "Nah. I'm just going to enjoy the thing that you made, but not pay you for it."
Content creator: "But...that's not the deal."
Customer: "What? You haven't lost anything out of this. I just want to have it. Give it to me."

^Pirating games in a nutshell.

And what about people who want to play the game but can't afford it/don't want to pay for it? They're just pathetic pieces of shit according to you, right?

that's just tough shit then. and they are scumbags for being parasites off someone's hard work.
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REMercsChamp posted...

Dude, what don't you fucking understand exactly?

They weren't going to buy the game anyway

The warcry of pirates that has no basis in reality other than being a convenient catch-all. I seriously doubt your average gamer would just...stop playing videogames if piracy wasn't a possibility.
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REMercsChamp posted...

MakoReizei posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

pinky0926 posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

LordRazziel posted...

Yes, the whole "it's not stealing" argument is whack.
A significant percentage of gamers seem to use that arguement.

What's not stealing?

He's talking about the way so many gamers casually pirate brand new releases despite approximately 23467 different ways to get your hands on the game legitimately and support the content creators, and then give a bunch of puddle-deep justifications for it all.

How's that stealing? They weren't going to buy the game anyway.

then they have no business playing it.

Why? It's 0 cost to the company because these guys weren't going to buy the game anyway. And like others have said, the games are too expensive. They can lower the prices if they want more people to buy it.

It's called intellectual property.
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pinky0926 posted...

Let's be honest. You'd rather spend $0 than $15, so you choose $0.

which is why just because you take away the $0 option doesn't mean people will spend the $15

but its something these companies want ignorant people to believe to cover their shit games getting shit sales
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LordRazziel posted...

It's called intellectual property.

It's called respecting other people actually. No harm, no foul.
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REMercsChamp posted...

And what about people who want to play the game but can't afford it/don't want to pay for it? They're just pathetic pieces of shit according to you, right?

If you can't afford something, that doesn't give you the right to steal it. If you don't want to pay for, why they fuck would they not b e pieces of shit for stealing it anyway?

A least have the balls to admit to yourself that you're stealing and you're stealing because the odds of you being caught and punished are slim to nill.
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MakoReizei posted...

that's just tough s*** then. and they are scumbags for being parasites off someone's hard work.

funny this doesn't apply to manga or text book thieves
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ModLogic posted...

pinky0926 posted...

if piracy wasn't an option you can bet people would be buying a lot more.

lmao doormats actually believe this

Nah it's more that content thieves piss me off to all manners of levels. This goes beyond piracy. There's simply an attitude that people have where they don't perceive certain things to have any financial value, and so they just go out of their way to avoid paying for it.

Ask any regular town musician/graphic designer/artist and they'll tell you that the biggest problem in their lives is people saying shit like "do some work for my bar/website/coffee shop - we can't pay you but it will be really good exposure for you!"

Well, exposure doesn't pay the bills. Maybe people should have more respect for the skill and time and craft that people put into things, even if it's not a tangible thing.
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REMercsChamp posted...

LordRazziel posted...

It's called intellectual property.

It's called respecting other people actually. No harm, no foul.

Yeah, it's about respecting other people...
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ModLogic posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Let's be honest. You'd rather spend $0 than $15, so you choose $0.

which is why just because you take away the $0 option doesn't mean people will spend the $15

but its something these companies want ignorant people to believe to cover their shit games getting shit sales

Right, because every games company is a faceless corporation made up entirely of soulless suits laughing in the board room, passing around cocaine and thinking up new ways to fuck you.
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pinky0926 posted...

ModLogic posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Let's be honest. You'd rather spend $0 than $15, so you choose $0.

which is why just because you take away the $0 option doesn't mean people will spend the $15

but its something these companies want ignorant people to believe to cover their shit games getting shit sales

Right, because every games company is a faceless corporation made up entirely of soulless suits laughing in the board room, passing around cocaine and thinking up new ways to fuck you.

Well if they're so fucking benevolent why don't they just give us the game for free then?
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pinky0926 posted...

ModLogic posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Let's be honest. You'd rather spend $0 than $15, so you choose $0.

which is why just because you take away the $0 option doesn't mean people will spend the $15

but its something these companies want ignorant people to believe to cover their shit games getting shit sales

Right, because every games company is a faceless corporation made up entirely of soulless suits laughing in the board room, passing around cocaine and thinking up new ways to fuck you.

lol
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REMercsChamp posted...

pinky0926 posted...

ModLogic posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Let's be honest. You'd rather spend $0 than $15, so you choose $0.

which is why just because you take away the $0 option doesn't mean people will spend the $15

but its something these companies want ignorant people to believe to cover their shit games getting shit sales

Right, because every games company is a faceless corporation made up entirely of soulless suits laughing in the board room, passing around cocaine and thinking up new ways to fuck you.

Well if they're so fucking benevolent why don't they just give us the game for free then?

Oh, stop.
XD
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REMercsChamp posted...

pinky0926 posted...

ModLogic posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Let's be honest. You'd rather spend $0 than $15, so you choose $0.

which is why just because you take away the $0 option doesn't mean people will spend the $15

but its something these companies want ignorant people to believe to cover their shit games getting shit sales

Right, because every games company is a faceless corporation made up entirely of soulless suits laughing in the board room, passing around cocaine and thinking up new ways to fuck you.

Well if they're so fucking benevolent why don't they just give us the game for free then?

so that's the only other option? they have to put food on the table too you know.
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pinky0926 posted...

Right, because every games company is a faceless corporation made up entirely of soulless suits laughing in the board room, passing around cocaine and thinking up new ways to f*** you.

because pirates pirate all games and never pay for any
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REMercsChamp posted...

Well if they're so fucking benevolent why don't they just give us the game for free then?

Actually not sure if serious at this point. This has to be satire or bizarro world.
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pinky0926 posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Well if they're so fucking benevolent why don't they just give us the game for free then?

Actually not sure if serious at this point. This has to be satire or bizarro world.

His views on other things would strongly indicate this.
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Yes, but it's justified because we pay so much for games.
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ModLogic posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Right, because every games company is a faceless corporation made up entirely of soulless suits laughing in the board room, passing around cocaine and thinking up new ways to f*** you.

because pirates pirate all games and never pay for any

You should be paying for every game if the price for those games is set out and explicitly stated as a condition for playing them, not hard. If you don't like those conditions then don't support the company. If you're just playing the game but subverting those conditions then you're having your cake and eating it too.

If I was a photographer and took a bunch of photos and I saw that you put them up on your website (despite me saying explicitly in bold print that they're licensed), do you think it would be a comfort to me when you said "But you already took the photos, so its not costing you anything"?

Seriously, if your argument here is you want to "try it out" then play the demo. If your argument is that you can't afford it then that sucks, but such is life. If your argument is that you think they're an evil corporation then don't play their games. If your argument is that you want to have your fun but not actually support the content creator then I believe you.
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