Current Events > Here is why I think Christianity is a bad ideology

(+) Yeah! (+)

TC that kid that thinks he's hot shit even though he get a D- in history class.
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epik_fail1 posted...

Why do so many famous christians cite the old testament?

Cite some specific famous Christians and their quotes.
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EbonTitanium posted...

KeyBlade999 posted...

The Admiral posted...

Those Old Testament laws are superseded in Christianity by Jesus' New Covenant.

So everyone who is attacking you is right -- you're taking laws that were specifically given to Moses and the Jews during their pilgrimage through the desert 2000 years ago and pretending like they have anything to do with modern Christian beliefs.

Meh, the ironic thing is that most Christians - in my experience anyhow - nitpick parts of the Old Testament and assume it is law, e.g. the passages prohibiting homosexuality.

Though ironically ignoring the other passages that prohibit, for example, eating pork.

Not that I don't agree with you, Admiral - but it's funny how most Christians I've seen use the Bible incorrectly and then incompletely. >_>

The pork thing is for Jews, not Gentiles.

jesus, his apostles, and hundreds of years of followers were all jews... when did that change?
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Neo7 posted...

TC that kid that thinks he's hot shit even though he get a D- in history class.

I did not know history class was supposed to be about the Bible. I never attended a religious school though...
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monkmith posted...

jesus, his apostles, and hundreds of years of followers were all jews... when did that change?

jesus was a jew, but most of the apostles weren't iirc.

The Old Testament (abbreviated OT) is the first part of Christian Bibles based primarily upon the Hebrew Bible (or Tanakh), a collection of ancient religious writings by the Israelites[1] believed by many Christians and religious Jews to be the sacred Word of God.[
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monkmith posted...

EbonTitanium posted...

KeyBlade999 posted...

The Admiral posted...

Those Old Testament laws are superseded in Christianity by Jesus' New Covenant.

So everyone who is attacking you is right -- you're taking laws that were specifically given to Moses and the Jews during their pilgrimage through the desert 2000 years ago and pretending like they have anything to do with modern Christian beliefs.

Meh, the ironic thing is that most Christians - in my experience anyhow - nitpick parts of the Old Testament and assume it is law, e.g. the passages prohibiting homosexuality.

Though ironically ignoring the other passages that prohibit, for example, eating pork.

Not that I don't agree with you, Admiral - but it's funny how most Christians I've seen use the Bible incorrectly and then incompletely. >_>

The pork thing is for Jews, not Gentiles.

jesus, his apostles, and hundreds of years of followers were all jews... when did that change?

Actually, no that long after the death of Jesus. Thank Paul for it.
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So this topic is pretty much a bunch of ignorant people offering completely stupid arguments against a religion they've never taken the time to understand at at minimum a basic level.

meingott posted...

So this topic is pretty much a bunch of ignorant people offering completely stupid arguments against a religion they've never taken the time to understand at at minimum a basic level.

Welcome to CE

meingott posted...

So this topic is pretty much a bunch of ignorant people offering completely stupid arguments against a religion they've never taken the time to understand at at minimum a basic level.

dont forget condescending assholes that dont add anything to the topic.
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meingott posted...

So this topic is pretty much a bunch of ignorant people offering completely stupid arguments against a religion they've never taken the time to understand at at minimum a basic level.

Like you?
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LordRazziel posted...

meingott posted...

So this topic is pretty much a bunch of ignorant people offering completely stupid arguments against a religion they've never taken the time to understand at at minimum a basic level.

Like you?

Don't kid yourself, if we put money on this and did it in real time you guys would get slaughtered because your understanding is superficial at best.

epik_fail1 posted...

I did not know history class was supposed to be about the Bible.

Well if you had paid attention in class you would know <3
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meingott posted...

LordRazziel posted...

meingott posted...

So this topic is pretty much a bunch of ignorant people offering completely stupid arguments against a religion they've never taken the time to understand at at minimum a basic level.

Like you?

Don't kid yourself, if we put money on this and did it in real time you guys would get slaughtered because your understanding is superficial at best.

LordRazziel posted...

The Old Testament (abbreviated OT) is the first part of Christian Bibles based primarily upon the Hebrew Bible (or Tanakh), a collection of ancient religious writings by the Israelites[1] believed by many Christians and religious Jews to be the sacred Word of God.[

You've been arguing that isn't a Christian text.
I'm not claiming to have a wealth of religious knowledge, hell, you almost certainly know more than me...
Just doesn't seem like you're the person to be ragging on other people for their ignorance.
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Christianity is invalidated by the old testament. It can't exist if you insist the old covenant must be followed. This would be a problem if not for the fact that all religion is arbitrary anyway. As such, it's fine.
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LordRazziel posted...

You be been arguing that isn't a Christian text.
I'm not claiming to have a wealth of religious knowledge, hell, you almost certainly know more than me...
Just doesn't seem like you're the person to be ragging on other people for their ignorance.

It literally is not a Christian text. It's a Jewish text. Written by Jews. Considered by Christians as part of what God did in the ancient period when the Jews were a new people, but not considered by anyone to be a Christian document.

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).
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meingott posted...

LordRazziel posted...

You be been arguing that isn't a Christian text.
I'm not claiming to have a wealth of religious knowledge, hell, you almost certainly know more than me...
Just doesn't seem like you're the person to be ragging on other people for their ignorance.

It literally is not a Christian text. It's a Jewish text. Written by Jews. Considered by Christians as part of what God did in the ancient period when the Jews were a new people, but not considered by anyone to be a Christian document.

Ohh...
Clever girl...
I dun been trolled
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epik_fail1 posted...

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).

None of this makes it 1) a Christian document or 2) a law that Christians are supposed to follow.

You can see in how the earliest Christians and apostles behaved that they were opposed to many Jewish principles.

epik_fail1 posted...

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).

Too bad Paul didn't care.
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EbonTitanium posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).

Too bad Paul didn't care.

What does this even mean?

The Admiral posted...

Where the Bible is relevant to this topic, however, is that it defines the sacrament of Matrimony as specifically between a man and a woman. This is why Christians are generally against gay marriage, but aren't going so far as supporting throwing gays off buildings like certain other religions encourage.

Not that I don't believe you, but citation needed.
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BalisticWarri0r posted...

EbonTitanium posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).

Too bad Paul didn't care.

What does this even mean?

There is more of Paul in the NT than Jesus. Paul had a massive influence on Christianity.
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loafy013 posted...

The Admiral posted...

Where the Bible is relevant to this topic, however, is that it defines the sacrament of Matrimony as specifically between a man and a woman. This is why Christians are generally against gay marriage, but aren't going so far as supporting throwing gays off buildings like certain other religions encourage.

Not that I don't believe you, but citation needed.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+10%3A6-9&version=ESV
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Jesus came and fulfilled the old laws.
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All religions are bad ideologies. The difference lies in the extent to which they are bad.
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Christians keep the Old Testament because the old laws continue to exist as a guideline. The books of the OT lay out things that are sins, but also their punishments. Jesus changed the way the laws are fulfilled. Sins are still bad, but rather than stoning a homosexual to death to fulfill the law, the law is instead fulfilled through belief in Jesus. Which is much better imo
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LastTomorrow posted...

Jesus came and fulfilled the old laws.

Not true at all. Jesus cannot possibly be considered a prophet under the old covenant. The fact that he didn't fulfill the "old laws" is exactly why he is rejected by Judaism.
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ThePrinceFish posted...

Christians keep the Old Testament because the old laws continue to exist as a guideline. The books of the OT lay out things that are sins, but also their punishments. Jesus changed the way the laws are fulfilled. Sins are still bad, but rather than stoning a homosexual to death to fulfill the law, the law is instead fulfilled through belief in Jesus. Which is much better imo

Yeah, but it would probably be better to just stop saying God hates gay people.
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twitterfriends posted...

Christianity, Islam, Judaism all are backwards and have never gotten us any world peace.

as opposed to all of their competitor ideologies?
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Neo7 posted...

TC that kid that thinks he's hot shit even though he get a D- in history class.

TC is like the guy who would argue with cops about the law when he only knows buzz words
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CowboyDan posted...

LastTomorrow posted...

Jesus came and fulfilled the old laws.

Not true at all. Jesus cannot possibly be considered a prophet under the old covenant. The fact that he didn't fulfill the "old laws" is exactly why he is rejected by Judaism.

The earliest Christians were in large part, active adherents of Judaism. To say he was rejected by "Judaism" isn't really accurate. Factions within Judaism supported him while others didn't.
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meingott posted...

I'm an atheist, but that doesn't excuse abject ignorance and stupidity when it comes the religions I argue against.

TC fucking rekt.

Man, I love when someone gets so butthurt by a topic that they make their own to try and counter it and fail so God damned miserably.
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I can respect a religious debate with an atheist who has knowledge about the religion he speaks against. Unfortunately it's not the tc.
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Quoting the TaNaKh to try to criticise Christians.

Beautiful.

Saloonist posted...

CowboyDan posted...

LastTomorrow posted...

Jesus came and fulfilled the old laws.

Not true at all. Jesus cannot possibly be considered a prophet under the old covenant. The fact that he didn't fulfill the "old laws" is exactly why he is rejected by Judaism.

The earliest Christians were in large part, active adherents of Judaism. To say he was rejected by "Judaism" isn't really accurate. Factions within Judaism supported him while others didn't.

No, he was and is rejected by Judaism. A small group of Jewish followers early on doesn't mean he wasn't rejected by Judaism as a whole. Moreover, it was and is impossible for Jewish people to accept Jesus or any other Messiah, because we weren't and aren't in a Messianic age, and Jesus wasn't a direct blood descendent of David. This is sometimes countered by suggesting that Mary was a descendent of David, but Jewish law only recognizes the male line.
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epik_fail1 posted...

meingott posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

"if it makes us look bad, it doesn't count"

-christians.

It's literally a Jewish text.

So... christians didn't exist before the new testament.

I might have to make this my sig
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MARKINGRAM22 posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

meingott posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

"if it makes us look bad, it doesn't count"

-christians.

It's literally a Jewish text.

So... christians didn't exist before the new testament.

I might have to make this my sig

I intentionally say crap like that to stay true to my username sometimes and because they are good postbaits.
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I can give you a theological answer. The laws of the Old Testament are still generally applicable for Christians. The punishments are not. That was the whole point of Jesus's birth and death. The established punishment for sin is death (one's own or in many cases blood sacrifice). Jesus was killed to pay that price indefinitely.

So yeah, if you stone someone for violating a law, you're a murderer.

As an aside, there is a difference between law and custom, and Paul makes it clear that following Jewish custom isn't necessary for Christians. Your example regarding idol worship is a law, though.
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epik_fail1 posted...

and it somehow count as christian when refering to gays.

Is this thread secretly about gays? I'm getting the feeling that the buildup was just your indirect attempt to get Christians to accept you being gay. If you're gay, just go and be that. Be happy as a gay man and try not to be too upset that not everyone is into the same things.
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epik_fail1 posted...

MARKINGRAM22 posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

meingott posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

"if it makes us look bad, it doesn't count"

-christians.

It's literally a Jewish text.

So... christians didn't exist before the new testament.

I might have to make this my sig

I intentionally say crap like that to stay true to my username sometimes and because they are good postbaits.

That's convenient!
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TC is not aware of the new covenant, and the fact that the text he cited was written for the Jews of that time, which was thousands of years ago.

Christianity is, in fact, not a bad ideology. And if practiced properly, it would have nothing but a positive effect in our world.
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Yeah people's insistence on using a translation whose only merit is readability by a group of people who have been dead for 300 years is kind of a problem.
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Vindris_SNH posted...

TC is not aware of the new covenant, and the fact that the text he cited was written for the Jews of that time, which was thousands of years ago.

Christianity is, in fact, not a bad ideology. And if practiced properly, it would have nothing but a positive effect in our world.

Well it's fucking not, and it never will be, "practiced properly." Get over it. It's best to just stop answering to invisible sky wizards entirely.
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Lorenzo_2003 posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

and it somehow count as christian when refering to gays.

Is this thread secretly about gays? I'm getting the feeling that the buildup was just your indirect attempt to get Christians to accept you being gay. If you're gay, just go and be that. Be happy as a gay man and try not to be too upset that not everyone is into the same things.

It's not quite as simple as "not everyone is into the same things." There are those in America who think gays should die, that Hillary Clinton would have destroyed America by making it a hate crime to call homosexuality a sin, and that Trump is a man of God just because he wasn't going to do that, because you know, lying totally isn't a sin too.
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l33t_iRk3n_Rm33 posted...

and that Trump is a man of God

I know somebody like this. He is an old fuck who joined our indoor soccer team. He is a pastor in some Wesboro-like church. He calls all of us "brother" and tells us we're real close friends and share into a fraternal friendship (?!?!). He'd cook for us and invite us over.

it was all a bit too forced and weird, but we went along with it. Then the election season happened and he started wearing those MAGA caps. He stopped saying hello to the soccer players in our team he'd perceive as hispanic. When we're talking in a circle he'd join us and talk to some of us and ignore the players I just mentioned, it was really blatant.

Then he went on some rant about how certain branches are not true Christians. Then he told us that exact phrase (that cheeto was a man of God LOL). I burst out laughing and he said "got a problem with that?" and I said kidding "but he grabs them (women) by the p****!" and dude got really mad. Now he won't talk to me OR pass the ball to me and he always tells people I am holding the team back.

Asherlee10 posted...

destrian522 posted...

I can give you a theological answer. The laws of the Old Testament are still generally applicable for Christians. The punishments are not. That was the whole point of Jesus's birth and death. The established punishment for sin is death (one's own or in many cases blood sacrifice). Jesus was killed to pay that price indefinitely.

So yeah, if you stone someone for violating a law, you're a murderer.

As an aside, there is a difference between law and custom, and Paul makes it clear that following Jewish custom isn't necessary for Christians. Your example regarding idol worship is a law, though.

I think I'm even more confused now. How do you decide, as a Christian, which part of the OT is supposed to be followed or taken seriously?

There are so many conflicting answers in this topic.

All of it. It is confusing, though, because like with most reading you aren't going to get a complete picture without context, and it's so old that context can be difficult to establish.

I think the "official" Christian answer would be to read corporately and supplement with research into history and commentaries and prayer. If you read by yourself and assume that every passage is literally a commandment telling you do to something, you will walk away with many harmful ideas. Extremism exists when people elect not to use their brains and let a poor or incorrect understanding dominate their decision-making.
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l33t_iRk3n_Rm33 posted...

Well it's fucking not, and it never will be, "practiced properly."

No one does it flawlessly, but there are many who have made a very positive difference in the world.
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