Current Events > Here is why I think Christianity is a bad ideology

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weapon_d00d816
04/12/17 11:21:33 AM
#102:


"Christianity was a mistake." - Jesus
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CowboyDan
04/12/17 11:28:09 AM
#103:


Vindris_SNH posted...
l33t_iRk3n_Rm33 posted...
Well it's fucking not, and it never will be, "practiced properly."


No one does it flawlessly, but there are many who have made a very positive difference in the world.

Many non-christians do as well. That seems to imply Christianity isn't really the motivating factor.
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Kekistan
04/12/17 11:29:43 AM
#104:


Why is it that critics of Christianity never use the words of Jesus but instead cite old testament when they want to slam Christians?
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P01ntyDmonspank
04/12/17 11:31:23 AM
#105:


17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…


It seems to me rather picking and choosing to take this to mean that the OT means nothing.
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CowboyDan
04/12/17 11:31:58 AM
#106:


Kekistan posted...
Why is it that critics of Christianity never uses the words Jesus say but rather always cite old testament when they want to criticize Christians?

If I wanted to criticize Christians I would bring up the WBC of the LRA. People here are discussing the basis of the religion.
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epik_fail1
04/12/17 11:34:23 AM
#107:


Kekistan posted...
Why is it that critics of homosexuality never use the words of Jesus but instead cite old testament when they want to slam gays?

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destrian522
04/12/17 11:39:51 AM
#108:


Asherlee10 posted...
Vindris_SNH posted...
TC is not aware of the new covenant, and the fact that the text he cited was written for the Jews of that time, which was thousands of years ago.

Christianity is, in fact, not a bad ideology. And if practiced properly, it would have nothing but a positive effect in our world.


"practiced properly" is entirely subjective, though.

destrian522 posted...
Asherlee10 posted...
destrian522 posted...
I can give you a theological answer. The laws of the Old Testament are still generally applicable for Christians. The punishments are not. That was the whole point of Jesus's birth and death. The established punishment for sin is death (one's own or in many cases blood sacrifice). Jesus was killed to pay that price indefinitely.

So yeah, if you stone someone for violating a law, you're a murderer.

As an aside, there is a difference between law and custom, and Paul makes it clear that following Jewish custom isn't necessary for Christians. Your example regarding idol worship is a law, though.


I think I'm even more confused now. How do you decide, as a Christian, which part of the OT is supposed to be followed or taken seriously?

There are so many conflicting answers in this topic.

All of it. It is confusing, though, because like with most reading you aren't going to get a complete picture without context, and it's so old that context can be difficult to establish.

I think the "official" Christian answer would be to read corporately and supplement with research into history and commentaries and prayer. If you read by yourself and assume that every passage is literally a commandment telling you do to something, you will walk away with many harmful ideas. Extremism exists when people elect not to use their brains and let a poor or incorrect understanding dominate their decision-making.


This seems so subjective that I don't think it's wise for people (especially in this topic) to express their opinions as truth, then. One person says OT should be ignored, another says it should be evaluated a certain way, etc.

It's not subjective. It's objective, and people will be varying degrees of right or wrong. Truth isn't relative, regardless of the religion one espouses, or lack thereof. That's just an excuse for legitimizing harmful ideology.

I'm not suggesting that you should believe certain things. Rather, I was providing information on the religion about which you were asking questions. I'll stop now.
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myzz7
04/12/17 3:20:42 PM
#109:


Paragon21XX posted...
meingott posted...
That's a Jewish passage, not a Christian one.

You're right, but TC won't care.

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hockeybub89
04/12/17 3:23:21 PM
#110:


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darkphoenix181
04/12/17 3:25:25 PM
#111:


epik_fail1 posted...
Deuteronomy 17

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

do you agree with this christians?


no actual Christian agrees with that since Jesus you know said that you have been told to hate your enemies but now he commands you love your enemies and do good to them, bless them that despitefully use you
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_Near_
04/12/17 3:27:57 PM
#112:


People who think that Jesus abolished the Old Testament really need to read the Sermon on the Mount.
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darkphoenix181
04/12/17 3:28:05 PM
#113:


twitterfriends posted...
Christianity, Islam, Judaism all are backwards and have never gotten us any world peace.


Christianity isn't about world peace, Jesus even said so himself
nor is it about equality as Jesus once said the poor will you have always

it is about a everyman's own soul and his relationship with God

however, Christians are commanded to live peaceably with all men
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darkphoenix181
04/12/17 3:31:45 PM
#114:


_Near_ posted...
People who think that Jesus abolished the Old Testament really need to read the Sermon on the Mount.


you mean the sermon where Jesus says that you have heard (as in the old testament) to hate your enemy

but I (as in Jesus) say to love your enemies and do good to those who despitefully use you?

to not resist evil (again old testament) but to turn the other cheek and give your coat to the guy robbing you? (what Jesus says to now do)


cause if you didn't know that was the sermon on the mount
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hockeybub89
04/12/17 3:32:53 PM
#115:


darkphoenix181 posted...
epik_fail1 posted...
Deuteronomy 17

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

do you agree with this christians?


no actual Christian agrees with that since Jesus you know said that you have been told to hate your enemies but now he commands you love your enemies and do good to them, bless them that despitefully use you

Except actual Christians that cite the Old Testatment as a reason to hate gays. Or are we doing what we do with Muslims where anyone that doesn't follow the "correct" teaching of fairytales isn't considered a "real" religious person? No real Christian is bad. No real Muslim is good. No real Jew or Hindu is who gives a fuck.
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darkphoenix181
04/12/17 3:39:12 PM
#116:


hockeybub89 posted...
darkphoenix181 posted...
epik_fail1 posted...
Deuteronomy 17

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

do you agree with this christians?


no actual Christian agrees with that since Jesus you know said that you have been told to hate your enemies but now he commands you love your enemies and do good to them, bless them that despitefully use you

Except actual Christians that cite the Old Testatment as a reason to hate gays. Or are we doing what we do with Muslims where anyone that doesn't follow the "correct" teaching of fairytales isn't considered a "real" religious person? No real Christian is bad. No real Muslim is good. No real Jew or Hindu is who gives a fuck.


Old Testament is cited to consider whether homosexuality is a sin

is it cited to say gays should be stoned to death? no
because like I said Jesus said to do good to those who are your enemies and if you take being a sinner as being an enemy, then Jesus says to love the sinner

or you argue that stoning someone means you love them?


as to your real argument, you do not believe Jesus saying that you are commanded to love your enemies and do good to them is a qualifier?
like how would you use "interpretation" to say a Christian doesn't have to love their enemies as jesus said such that you can argue it is the same as your supposed example?
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gamer_boy997
04/12/17 3:39:13 PM
#117:


I was thinking about citing the passage where Jesus says "may he who is without sin cast the first stone."

But TC is a troll so it's not worth it.
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_Near_
04/12/17 3:39:34 PM
#118:


darkphoenix181 posted...

cause if you didn't know that was the sermon on the mount


Yeah, of course, he said all those things. But in the same sermon, he said he didn't come here to abolish the old law, but to fulfill it.

In other instances, he also said didn't come here for peace, but with the sword.

And he also cursed the cities of Bethsaida and Korazin to Hell.

And he also said he was going to turn families apart.

It's almost like the text is made by different people and has a shit ton of contradictions, but still successfully instills fear in order to make people believe.
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darkphoenix181
04/12/17 3:50:26 PM
#119:


_Near_ posted...
darkphoenix181 posted...

cause if you didn't know that was the sermon on the mount


Yeah, of course, he said all those things. But in the same sermon, he said he didn't come here to abolish the old law, but to fulfill it.

In other instances, he also said didn't come here for peace, but with the sword.

And he also cursed the cities of Bethsaida and Korazin to Hell.

And he also said he was going to turn families apart.

It's almost like the text is made by different people and has a shit ton of contradictions, but still successfully instills fear in order to make people believe.


no that is you not reading it to actually understand it but wanting it to say things that allow you to criticize it

for example, where in the new testament do you read of the early church using a sword? you find 1 time where Peter cuts the ear of a man and Jesus rebukes him telling him not to fight
the rest of the new testament we find the disciples are martyrs who did not fight back
so did he really say his followers would fight with a sword?

Ephesians 6
17And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.


but just reading the actual passage you are referring to anyone with grade school level reading can see what he means

Matthew 10
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

cause you see cherrypicking is what most people trying to point out quote un-quote "contradictions" do

you forget about the context in the previous verses?

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

So a literal sword? No that is terrible reading comprehension. It is a metaphor of division in a household. That brother who is delivering his brother to death because why? Because Jesus followers shall be hated of all men.

shame
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_Near_
04/12/17 4:06:08 PM
#120:


No one said it was a literal sword. He's literally talking about tearing families apart because they love each other (or anything else) more than him. Because he's the way, the truth and the life, and nothing else matters other than loving him and his daddy. That's why he can curse two cities to hell in a blink of an eye.
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darkphoenix181
04/12/17 4:10:43 PM
#121:


_Near_ posted...
No one said it was a literal sword. He's literally talking about tearing families apart because they love each other (or anything else) more than him. Because he's the way, the truth and the life, and nothing else matters other than loving him and his daddy. That's why he can curse two cities to hell in a blink of an eye.


so where is the contradiction?

he is referring to families where the child is converted to Christianity but mommy and daddy say worship Zeus
child refuses and mommy and daddy send them off to be executed

or in modern times you have families that don't talk to each other because of differing religious beliefs

a real contradiction would have been if he said he came to give the world peace and unity and then his followers got slaughtered and people fought them
but he said the opposite that actually came true when they got slaughtered and people sent them to their deaths
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_Near_
04/12/17 4:20:01 PM
#122:


darkphoenix181 posted...

he is referring to families where the child is converted to Christianity but mommy and daddy say worship Zeus
child refuses and mommy and daddy send them off to be executed

or in modern times you have families that don't talk to each other because of differing religious beliefs


The contradiction is happens when he claims to love his enemy and avoid resisting evil but then he himself curses his enemies to hell, and punishes evil. And he's doing harm because these kids don't need to be executed or disowned because of adopting an ideology that won't benefit them in the least.

You could say he still loves people he sends to hell or the kids that his ideology kills, but I'd call that an abusive relationship.
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XmasPikachu
04/12/17 4:35:25 PM
#123:


hockeybub89 posted...
lol christianity


go pray to mecca and stop insulting other faiths
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hockeybub89
04/12/17 4:37:47 PM
#124:


XmasPikachu posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
lol christianity


go pray to mecca and stop insulting other faiths

lol islam
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#125
Post #125 was unavailable or deleted.
Saloonist
04/12/17 5:36:31 PM
#126:


CowboyDan posted...
Saloonist posted...
CowboyDan posted...
LastTomorrow posted...
Jesus came and fulfilled the old laws.

Not true at all. Jesus cannot possibly be considered a prophet under the old covenant. The fact that he didn't fulfill the "old laws" is exactly why he is rejected by Judaism.

The earliest Christians were in large part, active adherents of Judaism. To say he was rejected by "Judaism" isn't really accurate. Factions within Judaism supported him while others didn't.

No, he was and is rejected by Judaism. A small group of Jewish followers early on doesn't mean he wasn't rejected by Judaism as a whole. Moreover, it was and is impossible for Jewish people to accept Jesus or any other Messiah, because we weren't and aren't in a Messianic age, and Jesus wasn't a direct blood descendent of David. This is sometimes countered by suggesting that Mary was a descendent of David, but Jewish law only recognizes the male line.

There is literally no such thing as Judaism as a whole and there never has been.

Moreover there are Messianc Jews even today that practice Judaism and worship Jesus. A sect of Jews started Christianity, and they didnt see themselves as starting a new religion because they operated within the old one.
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Vindris_SNH
04/12/17 5:37:40 PM
#127:


Asherlee10 posted...
"practiced properly" is entirely subjective, though.


Because some people don't know how to be a Christian doesn't mean there's a problem with Christianity itself.
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s0nicfan
04/12/17 5:38:36 PM
#128:


How the hell is this topic at 128 posts and my Islam one is at less than 50 >.>
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Nomadic View
04/12/17 5:38:38 PM
#129:


epik_fail1 posted...
meingott posted...
epik_fail1 posted...
"if it makes us look bad, it doesn't count"

-christians.


It's literally a Jewish text.


So... christians didn't exist before the new testament.


No, they didn't.
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#130
Post #130 was unavailable or deleted.
darkphoenix181
04/12/17 5:40:25 PM
#131:


Saloonist posted...
A sect of Jews started Christianity, and they didnt see themselves as starting a new religion because they operated within the old one.


this is 100% incorrect
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Vindris_SNH
04/12/17 5:40:49 PM
#132:


Asherlee10 posted...
Vindris_SNH posted...
Asherlee10 posted...
"practiced properly" is entirely subjective, though.


Because some people don't know how to be a Christian doesn't mean there's a problem with Christianity itself.


Who determines what is the "right" way to be a Christian?


Jesus.
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Saloonist
04/12/17 5:43:41 PM
#133:


darkphoenix181 posted...
Saloonist posted...
A sect of Jews started Christianity, and they didnt see themselves as starting a new religion because they operated within the old one.


this is 100% incorrect

Jesus himself talks about fulfilling the Old Covenant, and not removing anything from it as someone posted earlier.

They saw themselves as a development within a tradition. Not a new religion.
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#134
Post #134 was unavailable or deleted.
darkphoenix181
04/12/17 5:49:40 PM
#135:


Saloonist posted...
darkphoenix181 posted...
Saloonist posted...
A sect of Jews started Christianity, and they didnt see themselves as starting a new religion because they operated within the old one.


this is 100% incorrect

Jesus himself talks about fulfilling the Old Covenant, and not removing anything from it as some posted earlier.

They saw themselves as a development within a tradition. Not a new religion.


they are the ones who came up with the phrase New Testament
and they did not operate in the old one, very early did they preach against what was called Judaizing teachers or that is people who kept the Old Law and said it was to not be done


also again, these things aren't hard to understand, but people purposely delude themselves into thinking a passage says things it does not

lets look at the text of not destroying the old law

Matthew 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So are christians still in the old law? It hasn't passed away right?
WRONG
Notice: one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

What does this mean? Well in context is there anything that is fulfilling anything?
OH YEAH!
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

So he came to fulfill the law, and until he was done, the practices of the Old Law would not pass away.
hmm
So how and when did he fulfill the Old Law? Obviously, it was when he died.
That is also when surprise to no one, the New testament came into effect and people became Christians and stop sacrificing animals doing Old Testament rituals.
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Vindris_SNH
04/12/17 5:52:26 PM
#136:


Asherlee10 posted...
We're back full circle to how anyone interprets the words written in the NT.


Jesus is pretty straightforward with his living example and words on how to live.

Asherlee10 posted...
there are many different versions


They've cross-checked the current english translations with the oldest manuscripts they have. The english translations are very accurate. I'll give you that they're not 100%, but they're more than close enough to get the point across of how a Christian should live his or her life.

It is historical fact that Jesus existed. The Bible is one of the most historically accurate texts that we have today. In fact, historians have confirmed many details about history from it that you've read in your school textbooks.
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Saloonist
04/12/17 5:54:27 PM
#137:


darkphoenix181 posted...
Saloonist posted...
darkphoenix181 posted...
Saloonist posted...
A sect of Jews started Christianity, and they didnt see themselves as starting a new religion because they operated within the old one.


this is 100% incorrect

Jesus himself talks about fulfilling the Old Covenant, and not removing anything from it as some posted earlier.

They saw themselves as a development within a tradition. Not a new religion.


they are the ones who came up with the phrase New Testament
and they did not operate in the old one, very early did they preach against what was called Judaizing teachers or that is people who kept the Old Law and said it was to not be done


also again, these things aren't hard to understand, but people purposely delude themselves into thinking a passage says things it does not

lets look at the text of not destroying the old law

Matthew 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So are christians still in the old law? It hasn't passed away right?
WRONG
Notice: one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

What does this mean? Well in context is there anything that is fulfilling anything?
OH YEAH!
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

So he came to fulfill the law, and until he was done, the practices of the Old Law would not pass away.
hmm
So how and when did he fulfill the Old Law? Obviously, it was when he died.
That is also when surprise to no one, the New testament came into effect and people became Christians and stop sacrificing animals doing Old Testament rituals.

None of that suggests that they were founding a new religion or saw it as such. The old law being fulfilled doesn't mean that it's discarded or insignificant. The New Covenant is just a development from it. The earliest Christians were Jews. They would never say they were abandoning their ancestral religion. Quite the opposite.

They believed that they were more in conformity with the promises of the old religion than those who rejected Jesus could ever hope to be.
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darkphoenix181
04/12/17 5:57:04 PM
#138:


Saloonist posted...
None of that suggests that they were founding a new religion or saw it as such. The old law being fulfilled doesn't mean that it's discarded or insignificant. The New Covenant is just a development from it. The earliest Christians were Jews. They would never say they were abandoning their religion. Quite the opposite.

They believed that they were more in conformity with the promises of the old religion than those who rejected Jesus could ever hope to be.


What do you define a religion as?

If you mean they still followed Jehovah, then yes they held that belief.

However religion is usually defined as practices and beliefs which widely changes when Jesus gave the new law.
First and foremost there was no more animal sacrifices, the very key and important ritual of the Jewish religion.
And the sermon on the mount details the giant shift in beliefs from hating and wanting to kill enemies like the Phillistines in the OT to loving your enemies and trying to save them.
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Saloonist
04/12/17 6:00:37 PM
#139:


darkphoenix181 posted...
Saloonist posted...
None of that suggests that they were founding a new religion or saw it as such. The old law being fulfilled doesn't mean that it's discarded or insignificant. The New Covenant is just a development from it. The earliest Christians were Jews. They would never say they were abandoning their religion. Quite the opposite.

They believed that they were more in conformity with the promises of the old religion than those who rejected Jesus could ever hope to be.


What do you define a religion as?

If you mean they still followed Jehovah, then yes they held that belief.

However religion is usually defined as practices and beliefs which widely changes when Jesus gave the new law.
First and foremost there was no more animal sacrifices, the very key and important ritual of the Jewish religion.
And the sermon on the mount details the giant shift in beliefs from hating and wanting to kill enemies like the Phillistines in the OT to loving your enemies and trying to save them.

A religion is often whatever the practitioners make of it.

The original Christians did not believe they were founding a new religion. That is a fact. Why should I take the word of their competitors as evidence on the truth of that claim? The Jews in those days, just like today, could barely agree on anything among themselves. They hardly seem authoritative on the issue.

We can say the same about other Christian movements. Most Mormons would probably say Mormonism is just a development of Christianity and not a new religion. Why should we reject their view of it? Just because more Christians reject Mormonism as a new religion, doesn't say anything about the truth of that accusation.
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hockeybub89
04/12/17 7:17:44 PM
#140:


Vindris_SNH posted...
It is historical fact that Jesus existed. The Bible is one of the most historically accurate texts that we have today. In fact, historians have confirmed many details about history from it that you've read in your school textbooks.

Fiction uses real events and real names all the time. If 2000 years from now, historians find that our TV shows and movies talk about things that actually happened, does it make those works basically history documentaries? I mean, they're about real people, places, things. Everything said therefore must be true. Artistic license and embellishment don't exist. This is why every biographical film is 100% accurate.

There is nothing in the Bible that proves Jesus is the son of God or that God exists or that Christianity is the correct religion. I can write a novel about the 1960s and include a bunch of historical elements to build the world around my story, but that doesn't mean Martin Luther King Jr is truly divine or that JFK was assassinated by Martians. It doesn't matter how much history I name and how true I claim to be.
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Dragonblade01
04/12/17 7:25:54 PM
#141:


Christianity is a bad ideology because it is not internally consistent and can be used to reach opposite conclusions. Which isn't especially surprising, given the nature of its origin.
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CowboyDan
04/12/17 7:46:07 PM
#142:


Saloonist posted...
CowboyDan posted...
Saloonist posted...
CowboyDan posted...
LastTomorrow posted...
Jesus came and fulfilled the old laws.

Not true at all. Jesus cannot possibly be considered a prophet under the old covenant. The fact that he didn't fulfill the "old laws" is exactly why he is rejected by Judaism.

The earliest Christians were in large part, active adherents of Judaism. To say he was rejected by "Judaism" isn't really accurate. Factions within Judaism supported him while others didn't.

No, he was and is rejected by Judaism. A small group of Jewish followers early on doesn't mean he wasn't rejected by Judaism as a whole. Moreover, it was and is impossible for Jewish people to accept Jesus or any other Messiah, because we weren't and aren't in a Messianic age, and Jesus wasn't a direct blood descendent of David. This is sometimes countered by suggesting that Mary was a descendent of David, but Jewish law only recognizes the male line.

There is literally no such thing as Judaism as a whole and there never has been.

Moreover there are Messianc Jews even today that practice Judaism and worship Jesus. A sect of Jews started Christianity, and they didnt see themselves as starting a new religion because they operated within the old one.

It doesn't matter how they saw themselves, and they did start a new religion. And "Judaism as a whole" just refers to the religion at large, arguing that because a very small group of Jewish people believe in Jesus' divinity means he's held up by Jews as the messiah is asinine. He was absolutely rejected as the son of God by Judaism in general.
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BallerXRosetta-
04/12/17 7:48:37 PM
#143:


meingott posted...
That's a Jewish passage, not a Christian one.

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Saloonist
04/12/17 8:43:03 PM
#144:


CowboyDan posted...
Saloonist posted...
CowboyDan posted...
Saloonist posted...
CowboyDan posted...
LastTomorrow posted...
Jesus came and fulfilled the old laws.

Not true at all. Jesus cannot possibly be considered a prophet under the old covenant. The fact that he didn't fulfill the "old laws" is exactly why he is rejected by Judaism.

The earliest Christians were in large part, active adherents of Judaism. To say he was rejected by "Judaism" isn't really accurate. Factions within Judaism supported him while others didn't.

No, he was and is rejected by Judaism. A small group of Jewish followers early on doesn't mean he wasn't rejected by Judaism as a whole. Moreover, it was and is impossible for Jewish people to accept Jesus or any other Messiah, because we weren't and aren't in a Messianic age, and Jesus wasn't a direct blood descendent of David. This is sometimes countered by suggesting that Mary was a descendent of David, but Jewish law only recognizes the male line.

There is literally no such thing as Judaism as a whole and there never has been.

Moreover there are Messianc Jews even today that practice Judaism and worship Jesus. A sect of Jews started Christianity, and they didnt see themselves as starting a new religion because they operated within the old one.

It doesn't matter how they saw themselves, and they did start a new religion. And "Judaism as a whole" just refers to the religion at large, arguing that because a very small group of Jewish people believe in Jesus' divinity means he's held up by Jews as the messiah is asinine. He was absolutely rejected as the son of God by Judaism in general.

Judaism in general isnt the same as Judaism.

They didnt believe they were founding a new religion. You should provide empirical evidence to the opposite if you have any.

Furthermore, of course people that stayed traditionally Jewish reject the Jewishness of Christianity. They see it as a heresy. Obviously they have a vested interest in calling Christianity a new separate religion. In religion, "new" often had a negative connotation.

But lets not forget, hundreds of thousands of Jews, if not millions, throughout the millenia converted to Christianity. Of course you don't hear of these people proclaiming the Jewishness of Christianity. They were assimilated ages ago and just practiced what they believed to be the truth.
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Saloonist
04/12/17 8:58:08 PM
#145:


Also it's important to realize that Judaism as we know it today was itself an innovation forming at the same time as Christianity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_of_early_Christianity_and_Judaism?wprov=sfla1
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OmegaVideoGameG
04/12/17 8:58:47 PM
#146:


Religion is bad.
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