Board 8 > NBA Topic: What is wrong with the Cavs

(+) Yeah! (+)

I have never seen a "championship" team backslide into the playoffs so hard. At this point I think a 2nd round exit is more likely than the three-match.

Why couldn't the Thunder play in the East ffs
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there's nothing wrong with CLE
this is how they're s'posed to be
in the land of make-believe
that don't believe in CLE
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people say this literally every season about a team with LeBron and then they go to the finals
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ExThaNemesis posted...

I have never seen a "championship" team backslide into the playoffs so hard. At this point I think a 2nd round exit is more likely than the three-match.

Why couldn't the Thunder play in the East ffs

They don't have the playoff refs yet.... You rest assured, even though Boston would beat them in 6 with a fair whistle, that they will absolutely give LeBitch another unearned East Title.

Are the refs good enough to beat the Warriors this year, it depends how healthy Durant is.

I can't see the officials giving them 35+ points in 4 games which is what they would need to beat this Warriors team... But if Durant is hurt, and it's the normal 20... oh hell yeah they can give them that.
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EmDubyaSee posted...

even though Boston would beat them in 6 with a fair whistle

lmao

i'm a celtics fan, but i fucking wish
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KommunistKoala posted...

people say this literally every season about a team with LeBron and then they go to the finals

idk man the Hawks just beat 'em twice and now they lost to Miami. Admittedly LeBron and Kyrie sat for tonight but... I mean it just seems like a general malaise has fallen over them
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no defense
no bench
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good article on the cavs

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-the-cavs-overrated-or-underrated/

short version: they'll probably turn it on but they're shockingly average this year compared to expectations and we shouldn't expect that much from them
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they just don't look like they want it as much

and they're mostly the same exact team as last year.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

they just don't look like they want it as much

and they're mostly the same exact team as last year.

Basically this.

Lebron won for Cleveland. He has nothing else he needs to do.
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They don't know how to play defense
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Teams always win less games after making the title game two years in a row. Hall of fame players know to save it for the playoffs.

So the answer is "nothing". They'll be fine.
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Cleveland's older, hurt and complacent. I think they'll still make the finals but they didn't have a great shot at beating any of the top 3 in the west anyway. Lebron will need to be even better than his 2016 self, probably.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

they just don't look like they want it as much

and they're mostly the same exact team as last year.

They are totally aware they'll be carried when it counts...
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though I think we should all realize that Lebron is going for his seventh consecutive finals appearance which is just unworldly
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They were doomed the second Andrew Bogut went down.

He's now cursed two teams with injury.
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transience posted...

though I think we should all realize that Lebron is going for his seventh consecutive finals appearance which is just unworldly

There is nothing impressive about this stat...It was the East. Who is the best team he even PLAYED in that time?
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transience posted...

though I think we should all realize that Lebron is going for his seventh consecutive finals appearance which is just unworldly

psh call me when he has 8 wins in a row
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EmDubyaSee posted...

transience posted...

though I think we should all realize that Lebron is going for his seventh consecutive finals appearance which is just unworldly

There is nothing impressive about this stat...It was the East. Who is the best team he even PLAYED in that time?

11: 62 win Bulls, 56 win Celtics
12: 36 win Knicks, 42 win Pacers, 39 win Celtics, [47 win Thunder (Lockout Year)]
13: 45 win Bulls, 49 win Pacers, [58 win Spurs]
14: 43 win Bobcats, 44 win Nets, 56 win Pacers
15: 50 win Bulls, 60 win Hawks
16: 48 win Atlanta, 56 win Toronto, [73 win Warriors] (The east also had 10 teams at or above 500 last year)
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CherryCokes posted...

EmDubyaSee posted...

transience posted...

though I think we should all realize that Lebron is going for his seventh consecutive finals appearance which is just unworldly

There is nothing impressive about this stat...It was the East. Who is the best team he even PLAYED in that time?

11: 62 win Bulls, 56 win Celtics
12: 36 win Knicks, 42 win Pacers, 39 win Celtics, [47 win Thunder (Lockout Year)]
13: 45 win Bulls, 49 win Pacers, [58 win Spurs]
14: 43 win Bobcats, 44 win Nets, 56 win Pacers
15: 50 win Bulls, 60 win Hawks
16: 48 win Atlanta, 56 win Toronto, [73 win Warriors] (The east also had 10 teams at or above 500 last year)

Best win, LITERALLY the 11 Celtics, a team in the midst of destruction... There ain't no 80's Celtics, or Bad Boys on this list....
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Actually kinda interested in the East this year

I'm guessing Brad Stevens is doing a bang up job
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Cleveland's lucky their 51 wins include 3 over Toronto, otherwise they'd be at risk for falling to the 3 seed.

And since LeBron isn't playing, 51 might just be where they stay
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it's a shame the Cavs don't have Westbrook then ;) ;) ;)
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UltimaterializerX posted...

The Cavs won 57 games last year and won the title. They'll finish with 52 this year. 5 games is not a big difference.

The playoffs are a different animal, and let's not forget every Cavs game is 8 on 5.

Yup, that's why this topic is ********

WHY WOULD THEY CARE? They literally don't need to try in the regular season, since they'll get carried to undeserved wins in the playoffs.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

it's a shame the Cavs don't have Westbrook then ;) ;) ;)

I mean, the REAL best player in the league is pretty clearly one of the GS mega stars, or Kwalii Sp), but my god does Westbrook deserve that MVP.
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No it isn't. They have plenty of wins against teams with good records. The only one they really struggled against was the Warriors and well, that's because they're a group of mercenaries assembled to play basketball.
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If Westbrook doesn't win the MVP I may not even watch the playoffs I'll be so disgusted.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

If Westbrook doesn't win the MVP I may not even watch the playoffs I'll be so disgusted.

And the NBA saw this coming, and that's why.....

THE MVP THIS YEAR WON'T BE ANNOUNCED TILL AFTER THE DRAFT!

Silver truly is utter scum.
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EmDubyaSee posted...

THE MVP THIS YEAR WON'T BE ANNOUNCED TILL AFTER THE DRAFT!

wait

so the lasting image in voters minds will be of Harden's team 4-1'ing Westbrook's team

please tell me the vote will happen before the playoffs at least
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2017 is going to remembered as the Westbrook season regardless of who wins MVP. 2006 is remembered as the Kobe season and he didn't win MVP.
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It's such a shame that the Harden arguers are making me dislike one of my favorite players so much.

And his whole "I thought wins was the thing that mattered most" bit the other night just sickens me. Russ is the one who does his talking on the court by doing things like 50-16-10 with a 40 foot game winner.
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Harden had like a 35-15-10 the same night! I think you're being way too competitive about this.
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Well of course I am, it's me. I also have money riding on it and Westbrook is my favorite player so it just matters to me. I also think the argument for Harden over Westbrook relies solely on sabermetrics nonsense that is killing sports (sup Rock) and the argument for Westbrook over Harden is made by simply watching the basketball games.
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Im not even a huge Westbrook fan but after that last game I mean I cant deny that guy the damn MVP
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ExThaNemesis posted...

And his whole "I thought wins was the thing that mattered most" bit the other night just sickens me.

I mean by this logic no one outside of Golden State should win MVP
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MZero11 posted...

I mean by this logic no one outside of Golden State should win MVP

Exactly. By this metric Harden should be admitting that Kawhi is MVP ahead of him, right? I mean, he's got more wins.
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STEPH FOR THE 3-PEAT

But seriously, I don't put much stock into the wins argument either. Apart from baseball, I feel that an MVP candidate should, by himself, be enough to lift his team into a credible playoff contender. Westbrook has clearly done that.

It's a shame that Harden's numbers (and Lebron's and Kawhi's) are being so overshadowed this year, but it's precisely because Westbrook's numbers are ludicrous and he is the MVP.
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I'd still give it to Harden.
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I don't buy that. the sabermetric argument is in favor of Westbrook, not against! heck, you point to 50-16-10 as the reason to vote for him. he's #1 in PER, usage rate, all that. I don't think you're clear in what you're arguing for.

if anything, the more logical, less stat-focused argument is that 31/10/10 is not that much better than 29/11/8. win shares do point to Harden being more valuable but that's because, well, more wins. I actually am split right down the middle on Westbrook/Harden because they've both been phenomenal this year.
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PER is a useless sabermetric because it ignores efficiency and allows high usage players to look better than they are.

I don't have it on my phone but someone produced a theoretical box score where a player shot 25% during the game but took enough shots to produce an average PER (15).

There's a reason why most saber guys have long abandoned PER.
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transcience posted...

I actually am split right down the middle on Westbrook/Harden because they've both been phenomenal this year.

I would be totally okay with co MVPs honestly.
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ExThaNemesis posted...

I have never seen a "championship" team backslide into the playoffs so hard. At this point I think a 2nd round exit is more likely than the three-match.

if you win your Westbrook MVP bet I hope you bet all those winnings on the friggin' Washington Wizards (or Hawks) to beat the Cavs
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If I win my bet I am not betting ever again. I made the bet while ludicrously intoxicated and in the midst of an argument.

If I win this one I'm cashing out for good.
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What's the payout?
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a thousand dollars
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Westbrook with that 5-8-5 line tonight

Harden with 27-12-10
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