Board 8 > Ace Attorney Discussion Topic, Part 3 - Eureka Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

For me, L-1 L-2 and L-4 are all easy bottom 10 cases but L-3 is honestly close to top 10

If not for L-3 I wouldn't even bother ranking LvW with the rest of the series at all, but I feel that strongly about L-3 deserving my recognition

I do agree with your point of LvW being very hard to buy into though

L-3 isn't that good. it's interesting and has a good culprit, but I can't put it near the top 10.
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let me bust out my tiers real quick

The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over.

1. Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4)
2. Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4)
3. Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5)
4. Turnabout Revolution (6-5)
5. Turnabout for Tomorrow (5-5)

TELL. THE. TRUTH.

6. The Inherited Turnabout (E2-3)
7. The Stolen Turnabout (3-2)
8. Turnabout Samurai (1-3)
9. Turnabout Beginnings (3-4)
10. The Rite of Turnabout (6-3)
11. Turnabout Academy (5-3)
12. The Grand Turnabout (E2-5)
The Golden Court (L-3)
13. Turnabout Reclaimed (5-6)
14. Rise from the Ashes (1-5)

Zvarri! The truth has once again been elegantly revealed to me!

15. The Monstrous Turnabout (5-2)
16. The Forgotten Turnabout (E2-4)
17. Turnabout Ablaze (E1-5)
18. Recipe for Turnabout (3-3)
19. Turnabout Target (E2-1)
20. Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2)
21. Turnabout Trump (4-1)
22. Turnabout Memories (3-1)
23. Turnabout Time Traveler (6-6)

The Phoenix Wright Wax Philosophical Power Hour

24. The Magical Turnabout (6-2)
25. The Kidnapped Turnabout (E1-3)
26. The Cosmic Turnabout (5-4)
27. The Imprisoned Turnabout (E2-2)
28. Turnabout Sisters (1-2)
29. Turnabout Reminiscence (E1-4)
30. Turnabout Succession (4-4)
31. Turnabout Big Top (2-3)
The Last Witch Trial (L-4)
32. Turnabout Storyteller (6-4)

Wait a minute! That testimony stinks!

The Fire Witch (L-2)
33. Turnabout Airlines (E1-2)
34. The First Turnabout (1-1)
35. The Foreign Turnabout (6-1)
36. Turnabout Countdown (5-1)
37. Turnabout Visitor (E1-1)
The English Turnabout (L-1)

I believe the proper phrase here is, "You fail."

38. Turnabout Corner (4-2)
39. The Lost Turnabout (2-1)
40. Turnabout Serenade (4-3)


...Maybe something like that.
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yeah L-3 is around like a 2-2 level case
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I liked almost everyone from AAI's original cast except Ernest, Zinc, and Alba. AAI's problem is more in the way it uses Oldbag/Larry in E1-3 and E1-5, plus bringing back Mike Meekins and Maggey Byrd.

Barnham is completely unremarkable so he doesn't really register as a plus for AAI. Darklaw is... alright. Espella is godawful, so you've basically got Greyerl (decent) and Some Guy (hilarious).
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Espella is fine as long as she's not in "woe is me" mode.
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Flipping through the art book some more.

They seemed to have a pretty good idea of what they wanted Fulbright to be from the start, so he didn't have a lot of different designs. One of the descriptions for his character is "Not hot-blooded. More 'justice'-oriented. Don't mistake toughness for being overbearing. Hero of justice. Aim for 'tough yet invigorating.'"

They show a bunch of different ideas for Edgeworth's new design. They say that his cravat is kind of his trademark, so they were careful not to mess with it too much. They do have one design where it's long and fluttery instead of being bunched up though. There's a few different types of suits and hairstyles they fiddled with, too. There's one where his hair is slicked straight back and doesn't fit him at all. There's even one of Edgeworth with a mustache and goatee. It doesn't suit him, but it's not bad. They have one design where he actually wears his Prosecutor's Badge like a medal, too.

Oh man, they experimented with a bunch of different hairstyles for Gaspen. They have sketches of him with his hair spiked up in devil horns, him as a skinhead, with a fauxhawk, a Colonial style gray wig, golden blond hair, and my personal favorite: A perm.

Ted Tonate's original design was more like a mad scientist. He has a really long braid extending from the top of his head that was supposed to resemble a bomb fuse. During his breakdown animation, he breaks his goggles and you can see two small beady black eyes underneath. Didn't realize this, but they're supposed to look like little bombs!

There were a few different design possibilities for Juniper. There are a few where she resembles an elf or a fairy. I didn't notice this either, but apparently the big balls at the end of her braids are supposed to resemble yarn balls, since she knits so much.

One of Jinxie's early designs showed they thought about making her a bright and flashy character at first. The reason her eyes are so swollen and black is because she cries a lot because of how scared she gets (I forgot that detail with Blackquill, too. Those long black streaks under his eyes are from where he refused to wipe his tears away after he was imprisoned).

Not too many designs here for Damian Tenma. There's a weird one where he has a handlebar mustache and his hair is coiffed a bit, but that's about it. Lots of different ones for L'Belle though. They apparently toyed with the idea of making him female for a little while. There was one design where he would supposedly rip off his suit, only to reveal...the same suit in a different color underneath. I guess they transferred that gimmick to his hair.

They had a lot of designs for Filch, too. They were deliberately trying to invoke a retro look with him. He was originally supposed to have buckteeth and that bandit five o'clock shadow beard, but they got rid of it when they decided to make him look like a tanuki.
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E1-2 Middle complete! This was a relatively short section. Not a ton happened here and there were no formal "investigation" segments. The two main things you do here are have a showdown with Franziska and talk with Rhoda. There are some fun conversations with Gumshoe here though, like if you investigate Edgeworth's law book and Gumshoe finds the Steel Samurai manga hidden inside. Edgeworth also has a chessboard akin to the one in 1-5 where it's a bunch of red knights surrounding a blue pawn, and even Gumshoe recognizes this isn't how a chessboard is normally set up.

Anyway, in terms of stats: There are only two testimonies here, both from Franziska. We were talking the other day about how infrequently the first statement holds the contradiction, but that was the case with one of Franziska's testimonies here. I think it's a more common occurrence in the AAI games. I still have no idea if Franziska seriously believed Edgeworth was a potential suspect or if she's just trolling him. She keeps herself so guarded most of the time that it's hard to tell how she feels about a lot of things.

I also realized that it's going to be difficult to ascertain an in-game time because there's a time zone switch after the first segment. In the first segment, the time corresponds to the time zone of the departure location, but then it switches to local time once the plane lands (It even says "Local time" on the timestamp to begin the Middle segment). One of Lablanc's contradictions is about that discrepancy, and I think they mentioned the exact difference in time zones being nine hours, although I can't remember if it's nine hours fast or nine hours slow. I'd guess nine hours slow if the departure time zone is Borginia, and the local time is "California." It also means they took the long way to get from Europe to California if they went through Asia to get there, but hey...! You can chalk it up to needing to lay over in Zheng Fa, I guess.

The case has been fairly brisk up to this point, but I imagine this last section will take a while because the file labeled it as "End, Part 1" and the other two have just been "Beginning" and "Middle."
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More artbook stuff. I'll just hit some highlights:

--They went through a bunch of different designs for Robin before they settled on the final version.

--Hugh was originally conceived as a "ronin" (someone who keeps failing entrance/final exams), and he had coke-bottle glasses and "a 70/30 hair part" (Their words, not mine). He favors using his right hand for everything, even before he injured his left hand, which is why he can do insane things like wield a bow with one hand.

--Not much on Myriam, but they comment that she's "not much of a photographer" since she uses a disposable camera.

--Means is meant to resemble a marble statue, which is why he was designed to be massive. He was originally going to have a snake coiled around his shoulder. His hair and beard are very stiff, which is why he can tug on them and reshape them so easily.

--They had a good idea of what Starbuck was going to be from the start, so it didn't take long to finalize his design. He was originally going to wear his helmet, but since it obscured his unique hairdo, they decided against it. Also, he makes the rocket liftoff noise with his mouth during his liftoff animation.

--Cosmos's head was originally going to resemble a rocket ship, with a cone-shaped hairdo and a mustache that flares out like the wings. He has ten stars on his collar, five on each shoulder, six as coat buttons, and one on each sleeve for a total of 28, if you were curious.

--Aura was always going to be a mad scientist, so it didn't take long to finalize her design either. They thought about giving her short hair, but they eventually decided on her horn-like hair protrusions (although they have a sketch of her with her hair down, too).

--Sasha was designed to have a punk rocker motif to contrast with Rimes as a rapper.

--They went through a lot of different designs for Norma before they decided to go with a "black-and-white era mega starlet from Hollywood" style. They even have a rough sketch of the headshot she uses in her books instead of what she actually looks like!

--Since Clay is Apollo's best friend, it was decided right away that he would be just as hot-blooded as Apollo, although he was originally frail and lacked confidence before meeting him. Apparently, he always wears a hat. One of the notations by his design says, "Would die before taking off his hat."

--Metis was meant to be a Japanese-style beauty to contrast with Aura's design. Also, apparently the Cykes and Blackquill families have a long-standing relationship that predates these characters.
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E1-2 complete! That last segment was kind of weird but still pretty neat. Best part of the case (and one of the most memorable parts of the game, quite frankly) is when Lablanc falls over the railing and Edgeworth starts putting everything together as he falls in slow motion and black and white as "Announce the Truth" plays in the background. It's a super well done moment.

As for why it's a little weird (maybe "unconventional" would be the better word), let's look at the stats: There are three testimonies here, one by Franziska (where you have to press a certain statement and pick the right answer to progress, so I was a little disappointed by this because I didn't get to press every statement to get all the dialogue) and two by Cammy. However, there's a very long stretch after that final testimony before she finally confesses. There's no penultimate testimony where Presto plays. It actually plays after you find Hicks's photo and you have to point out the evidence that incriminates Cammy.

The final piece of evidence you present is the bloody cloth because it indicates whoever used it could speak Borginian. The entire case against Cammy is circumstantial, really, but there are enough commonalities that point to her to remove reasonable doubt, I think. I believe the only piece of evidence that doesn't get used by Edgeworth is Cammy's statement that Hicks was in his seat when they landed in Zheng Fa, which was obviously a lie. Edgeworth brings it up when you point out a contradiction at one point, but you never have to present the statement as evidence.

The in-game time is a bit weird here, as I said, because of the time zone switch. I'm not really sure how to calculate it, because of the time zone switch and because there was a large span of time where Edgeworth wasn't investigating because they shut it down until the plane landed. The initial in-game time is March 12, 6:13 A.M. (which would be March 11, 9:13 P.M. local time), and the final in-game time is March 12, 5:47 P.M. I might just freeze the timer from where the Beginning segment ends and pick it back up where Middle begins at 1:00 P.M. I mean, it's not necessary to get it "perfect" or anything, but it'd make E1-2 nearly a 21-hour case just going by straight time! Yeah, sounds good enough to me, so let's roll with that.

E1-2 Beginning playtime: 1:21:00
E1-2 Middle playtime: 0:47:48
E1-2 End playtime: 1:07:01
E1-2 in-game time: 7 hours, 6 minutes
E1-2 total playtime: 3:15:49

3-5 - 9:35:46
2-4 - 9:05:21
1-5 - 8:46:43
4-4 - 6:38:01
3-2 - 6:02:56
4-3 - 5:58:33
3-3 - 5:48:31
2-3 - 5:06:33
1-4 - 4:59:52
4-2 - 4:58:35
2-2 - 4:47:40
1-3 - 3:49:35
E1-2 - 3:15:49
1-2 - 2:40:40
4-1 - 2:11:44
3-4 - 1:54:15
E1-1 - 1:44:51
3-1 - 1:43:09
2-1 - 1:15:57
4-0 - 1:09:44
1-1 - 0:33:35

First full-length case to come in under a full-length non-epic PW1 case!
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nobody cares about E1-2 huh

mostly for good reason but still
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e1-2 is very analogous to 1-2. all of aai1 kinda mirrors 1 actually.

e1-3 should nearly double e1-2 timewise I would think. probably around 5 hours or so.
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I like your commentary on E1-2 and the artbook stuff. I just don't really know what to say.

Makes me interested in getting the book myself tbh.
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I couldn't find AJ, so I'm moving onto a replay of AAI now that I've finished with AAT.

I just did E1-1. It's alright - I think it's just a step above most intro cases, since Portsman is fun and I like Edgeworth's office as a murder location. The whole 'there were two different visitors' is a solid little twist for an intro case, nothing too big, but decently clever. I thought the last evidence present didn't make sense though. Why did Portsman still have the video tape on him instead of hiding it somewhere? He got caught by the whole 'two/three pieces of evidence' thing really stupidly. Everything up to that point was pretty good. Although why are the number plates on the door swappable? That doesn't make any sense because they don't have names on them (do they in Japan or something?). I was also annoyed by when Edgeworth says 'we should check the fingerprints on these', I said the number plates, and the game acts like that was a dumb answer, even though it turns out Portsman did swap them so his fingerprints should be on both.

I'm doing E1-2 and it already starts out as stupid as I remember. Teneiro 'arresting' Edgeworth is such an awkward scene.

The fact that E1-1 is the only time we're allowed to investigate Edgeworth's office in either game is a downright shame. Could've been great if they'd made it like the office in the OT.

SSBM_Guy posted...

Makes me interested in getting the book myself tbh.

If you can find a well made art book, they're really neat! I wholly recommend all the Persona ones if you're a fan!

Paratroopa1 posted...

Why did Portsman still have the video tape on him instead of hiding it somewhere? He got caught by the whole 'two/three pieces of evidence' thing really stupidly. Everything up to that point was pretty good. Although why are the number plates on the door swappable? That doesn't make any sense because they don't have names on them (do they in Japan or something?)

Perhaps he was actually telling the truth about not having the key to his office, so he wouldn't have actually been able to hide it in there! Feels like a poor lack of foresight on his part if he did though! Either that, or he was too arrogant to believe anyone would catch him. Edgeworth coming back to his office in the middle of the night and Badd showing up put a major wrench in his plan.

If Edgeworth didn't actually show him the contents of what Buddy Faith's note said (He only mentions the part where it says, "But you're out," if I'm not mistaken), then he wouldn't know the note mentions three pieces. I can't remember if the part about the three pieces was discussed or not.

They mention this in the game, but the number plates are removable because they take the plate off the door when an office is unoccupied. I imagine numbers are easier than names in Japanese because of the complexity of characters in the language, and that way they don't have to make new plates for everyone. They can just reuse the number.
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But wouldn't the office always have the same number? I'm confused. The space the office is in doesn't go away. Having swappable names would make sense because the occupant DOES change.

I guess it's just so the other prosecutors, security, etc. know the room is vacant.
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More art book stuff:

They've got the full 3-D model shots for the characters in here from the front, side, and back, which is pretty neat, because you don't get to see some of these angles in-game. They've also got a collection of all the different animations. There's a section with all the characters lined up next to each other drawn to scale, too, which is cool. Means is indeed very tall and Apollo is barely taller than Athena.

They've got art of all the various backgrounds from the game in here. It's cool to be able to see some large pictures without a character standing in the way for some of them so you can notice the details. They've also got some concept art for some of them that they didn't use, including some awesome images of Nine-Tales Vale. They show a full view of Themis Legal Academy, and the building is shaped to resemble the scales of justice. I'm reminded of how awesome 5-6's backgrounds are looking at them again here.

They've got all the special event cutscene pictures in here, too, as well as all the character profile pics and evidence pics. They've got all the Mood Matrix images, as well as some concept art of the interface.
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Finished replaying 1-2. I don't know how long ago I last played it, but I had forgotten that there was actually some slightly nontrivial branching (if you fail to press April May hard then she won't tell you who Redd White is, and you have to find out from Grossberg instead). Also when you confront Grossberg about White there's a dialogue choice followed by a second dialogue choice that depends on your first choice (so if you pick poorly the first time you'll never have the option to accuse him of being White's lover!)
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M-M-My boy, please!
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The first time I played I think I did find out about White from Grossberg.
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LeonhartFour posted...

nobody cares about E1-2 huh

mostly for good reason but still

Been a little busy and neglecting this topic. Sorry!

transcience posted...

e1-2 is very analogous to 1-2. all of aai1 kinda mirrors 1 actually.

Agree wholeheartedly!
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I just finished my replay of E1-2. Eh, the whole case just kind of feels like a waste of my time. The confrontation with Cammy Meele is pretty fun since I'm always a big fan of the moment when the culprit 'drops the act', but other than that there's nothing I find especially memorable or cool about the whole case. It just feels really empty.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Eh, the whole case just kind of feels like a waste of my time.

yet people hate Lablanc for pointing this out
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I'd be okay with it if someone paid me one million cents to play it
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What the f*** kind of movie is an hour long and exclusively shown on airplanes

Tonight I am playing 1-3 instead of BotW because UPS is terrible
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I'm kind of surprised a company hasn't decided to make stuff exclusively for flights, what with all the different groups that have gotten into making their own shows and movies, like Amazon! Well, not too surprised because such a business practice could hardly be profitable.

Anyway, I've been out and about almost all day, so I'm just getting around to it, but E1-3 Beginning is in the books! I like the intro to this case. It's pretty cool. I love the fact that Edgeworth uses Rhoda's hideous suitcase to carry the ransom money. The real shame is the fact that the intro is the only place to hear the Blue Badger March theme, which is a fun song. I mentioned this before, but I love the theme park setting for here, especially the Haunted House. The end of the intro where the Proto Badger sneaks up on Edgeworth and clubs him is well done, I think.

Of course, E1-3 is mostly about introducing you to most of AAI's major players. First is Kay, and I like her introduction here, jumping down from the window, only to realize the door is locked and now they can't get out. You realize pretty quickly that she's not quite the Great Thief she purports to be. I like how she takes the time to deliver her grandiose introduction as the Yatagarasu before untying Edgeworth and then casually just tells him her name is Kay Faraday. It's ironic that the one assistant who openly claims to be a thief is the worst thief of them all, because Maya and Trucy both occasionally display kleptomaniac tendencies! Trying to find a way out of the locked room is kinda fun, actually. There's some pretty good dialogue during this sequence as you investigate everything.

The next major player is Lang (and Shih-na, although you have no idea how big she is at this stage, of course). I don't think his impression is quite as strong as Kay's because you quickly discover the "secret" to having the highest successful arrest rate is just to arrest the guy who seems most suspicious at first glance. Edgeworth rightfully points out that there's a really good chance that such a philosophy would lead to a lot of false convictions, especially considering we've seen how screwed up the judicial systems in AA can be! Lang doesn't seem to care though because that's not his problem. They try to make him out to be a guy who cares about his men, and they also try to make him pseudo-Godot by having him spout seemingly deep one-liners, but both of those gimmicks don't become effective until later on. I guess you've gotta set them up here first though.

You get two testimonies in this sequence, one from Lang and one from (ugh) Meekins. I think one of Lang's strengths is that he's able to plug the holes in his arguments and still sound convincing, but it's hard for him to play to that strength when he only gets one testimony here. The first one is easy, and they get progressively tougher later in the case when you have to debunk multiple theories in a row.

Also, I gotta admit, I don't like Gumshoe acting all petulant and stomping his feet and saying he refuses to help "Wolf boy," so they have to drag him off kicking and screaming. I get that he's loyal to Edgeworth, but it doesn't really feel like something he'd normally do. I also think he and Kay fighting over who gets to be Edgeworth's assistant is kind of a dumb running gag. He and Kay's relationship in general is kind of weird. Same with Kay and Edgeworth. I feel like Kay is fine on her own, but she struggles to interact with other characters well, at least on a comedic level.
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I'm now replaying 1-3 in tandem with you it seems.

I'll be honest, I just don't like Kay. At all. Throughout both games they really try to force this relationship between her and Edgeworth and it just doesn't work. I don't think she makes a particularly amusing comic foil for Edgeworth, and there's just no other side to her really, she's just silly and that's it. She's probably the least helpful and least intelligent of all of the sidekick characters in the series, and the 'least helpful' part is especially bizarre considering if she was at least a semi-competent thief she would be able to help out a lot in investigations, but instead she's completely worthless - all she's really there to do is boot up the Little Thief, which, ugh. Can't you at least, like, pick a f***ing lock or something?

The 'least intelligent' part really bugs me though because she barely ever interjects with anything of use. It's a really weird contrast to Maya, who has a lot more to her than comic relief - she's genuinely insightful and her thoughts bounce off of Phoenix's well, despite the fact that the game never hails her as some sort of genius. Meanwhile Kay and Edgeworth just don't make a good duo at all, Edgeworth is pulling all of the weight and Kay just sits there and says inane things sometimes. It doesn't work. And I think they could have given Edgeworth a partner that works, since I think he and Gumshoe are a great duo. Although Gumshoe really does seem to just steadily get flanderized here.

I sorta like Lang here though. He's a decent foil for Edgeworth, especially in this game - I sort of like how his opening speech drives home the whole 'you're not in court anymore, pretty boy, this is my turf' idea, which kind of makes you feel like you have something to prove, even though you're playing Edgeworth. He's pretty tenacious which I like in a rival. He's not super interesting but he's alright.

I don't see how Kay is any less intelligent than, say, Maya or Pearl.
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Well, Kay is the least helpful sidekick primarily because Edgeworth is by far the most competent protagonist. He doesn't need her. Kay is there because the series needs a spunky female assistant, but part of the problem is that type of character doesn't work with Edgeworth. Like, I imagine if you paired up Edgeworth with Maya, it wouldn't work that well either. Edgeworth doesn't sell Kay's jokes at all because that's not his style. Most of their comedic interactions are him warning her not to steal something or her stealing his lines. Kay is the least necessary assistant in the series. She gets in trouble at least once per game as just about every assistant does as well.

But I like her anyway. She's good with characters who aren't Edgeworth and Gumshoe, and when things get serious, she brings out a side of Edgeworth you rarely see in him elsewhere.

I like Lang overall, too. He is a good foil for Edgeworth, but the fact that he's instantly antagonizing him and tries to arrest Meekins for a really flimsy reason isn't a good start for him. He gets better though.
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Speaking of being instantly antagonizing, what is it with Franziska insisting that Edgeworth is the killer in E1-2? I get that she's hyper-competitive with the guy but that seems like a little much, even for her. Edgeworth's obviously not the killer and it doesn't make sense that she would have it out for him like that.

transience posted...

I don't see how Kay is any less intelligent than, say, Maya or Pearl.

I've finished with E1-3 and I can't name a single time Kay said anything that was even sort of insightful. At best, she's stating the obvious; at worst she's in a completely different world of thought

Yeah, the Franziska thing in E1-2 confuses me because I can't tell if she really suspected him or if she just wanted to yank his chain. She rarely lets her true feelings slip past her tough woman facade.
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It's weird because it makes 0% sense for Franziska to suspect Edgeworth, but she's not really acting like she's just giving him a hard time for s***s and giggles either

She's also pretty quick to drop it, too, though. She might have just considered it punishment for letting himself be suspected at all. She's weird like that.
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She's not that quick to drop it. She carries the possibility with her as far into it as the cargo room, even though by that point she largely suspects Teneiro (which makes a great deal more sense).

Well, she's pretty quick to let Edgeworth investigate, too. You only have two testimonies against her before she mostly concedes. Franziska is never going to outright admit she was wrong about anything anyway.
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E1-3 Middle Complete! Three total testimonies here: One by Oldbag that's split up by a Little Thief sequence and thus you have to do it twice, and two by Lang. The autopsy report is proving to be a rather common piece of evidence here. I think I've used it three times already. Speaking of Little Thief, my feelings on it are kind of mixed. I mostly like how it's used in AAI1, but I think when AAI2 started adding wrinkles to it, I got tired of it and I'm kind of glad it's no longer a thing.

Lang is a bit better here because you get back-to-back testimonies with him, and you get to see him adjust on the fly. Also, unlike Franziska, he has no problems admitting when he's wrong or when he doesn't know something. I love it when Edgeworth asks him what Meekins's motive was, Lang just goes, "Who cares. That's not my concern. You can figure it out when you talk to him in jail." You also get the cool dual animation of Lang and Shih-na removing their shades at the same time, aw yeah.

You get a couple of quick cameos by Ema and Oldbag here, the latter of whom wasn't as bad as I remembered because she's not here that long (It's E1-5 that's the nightmare). I do like how in all of her appearances, her name is never listed in her profile. It's always something along the lines of "Security Guard" and in the description, it reads, "I think her name is Wendy Oldbag." Edgeworth reserves some pretty good snark just for Oldbag, too, it seems, because even in his inner monologue, he doesn't hold back what he really thinks of her. The only thing Ema does here is help you find some footprints and hold a pink DS. I guess this is just their way of forcing 1-5's canon-ness down your throat by reminding you that she's here, just like AJ. Although unlike AJ, at least AAI acknowledges the existence of cases other than 1-5! Speaking of which, there's a stage with the Gavinners' logo on it, as well as a sign that mentions Troupe Gramarye. Considering how close this is to 4-0, I wonder if this was their last show...!

Investigating the kidnappers' hideout is pretty neat, too. It's short but sweet, and you discover the existence of the third kidnapper, as well as the appearance of the Proto Badger, who is ab-SO-lutely the Bellboy, sir!

We're not doing too bad on time here either, but I think the last segment will wind up being pretty long because you have several testimonies with Lauren, Lance, and Lang, as well as the Little Thief recreation of the Haunted House. It's a really great segment though, so I'll be looking forward to it!
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Paratroopa1 posted...

Although Gumshoe really does seem to just steadily get flanderized here.

Didn't catch this before when I was scrolling through, but I sort of agree with it and sort of don't. I think I agree with you regarding AAI1, but he's surprisingly helpful and competent in AAI2, although it's mostly offscreen (it's the only game Gumshoe is in where he never testifies). The dude totally earns that raise by the end!
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I like that Lang is reasonably smart, but he never really is able to match wits with Edgeworth. No one can, though, other than maybe the E2-5 killer. Instead, he makes up in aggression what he lacks in preparedness.
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I like Lang's character...the problem is that while he works as a foil for Edgeworth, Edgeworth feels like the dominant person at the end of E-3 and Lang never really catches up. I'd love to see Lang come back in the mainline series as an investigator...maybe for Athena or Apollo? He could fit in Japanifornia or Khura'in well enough, I'd say.
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E1-3 complete! That might be the second most fun segment of the game (behind E1-5 Middle). Actually, I'm not sure it's that close! This is one situation where they take advantage of the fact that investigations are different from court, I think. There are six testimonies here in this order: One by Lauren, one by Lang, one by Lance, two by Lauren, and one by Lance. It's pretty cool how they rapidly rotate between the three of them here, and they make for some fun testimonies. They can be tricky, too. There's one in particular that's tripped me up in the past, and that's Lang's testimony about how Lauren knew the victim was her dad and they planned the kidnapping together. However, the contradiction isn't about how she couldn't have known he was her dad (which almost feels like what they're suggesting you have to disprove), but rather that it was the work of three people, not two. It's an odd bit of misdirection. Edgeworth accusing Lance of planning his own kidnapping is a cool moment, too, again partially because of the use of "Announce the Truth." Everyone's reaction to it is good, too.

Like E1-2, the final testimony is far from the end of the case (although you do get the Presto theme this time around to further confuse you) because there's the entire Haunted House Little Thief recreation afterward. This is the definitive Little Thief simulation, I think. It's really cool. It's a fun setting, and it's neat putting everything together to prove Lance did it. Speaking of which, the final piece of evidence is the victim's costume (which you have to use to show what was at the end of the hallway after the gunshot broke the mirror). The only two things you don't present as evidence are the Badger Photo Rally thing and the murder weapon.

Ernest Amano is a fun minor villain here, how he undermines the investigation as much as possible to try to bail out Lance and pin the blame on Lauren, including literally using his own ransom money to purchase the Haunted House because he somehow foresaw the investigation would eventually turn in that direction. I also love his little "calm down" animation where he goes, "There, there, now." Then when Lang tries to arrest Ernest, he doesn't hesitate to say his son is the one they're after, which traumatizes Lance so much that he faints. It's a great moment. As for Lance himself, well, he's obviously not great. He has a few good moments here and there, like when he's trying to sound deep and look like a bishounen when he's clearly neither of those things. While manipulating Lauren may not require a lot of hard work to do, his cover-up plot to make her think she killed her own dad was actually fairly clever, I think, so I'll give him a little credit for that, too.

As B8's preeminent (and perhaps only) Lauren Paups fan, I like her a lot here. Her animations are great, and I love how she has no sense of inner monologue when it comes to Edgeworth. Those moments when she feels herself swooning over him and she's trying to talk herself out of it are hilarious, I think. Of course, the fact that she's easily influenced and swayed is what made her so easy to manipulate, and for that, I feel a little sorry for her. Lauren really did seem to love Lance, and he took advantage of her and her father. There's also a really bittersweet moment when you talk to her about her pendant with the wings on it, and she says, "I believe that one day my father will come back to me riding on the wings of Pegasus." That one cut a little deep for me this time around.

Anyway, I'm running out of space, so let's end this. I couldn't get an exact end time because the last timestamp you get is at the beginning of the Haunted House sim.

E1-3 Beginning playtime: 1:23:35
E1-3 Middle playtime: 1:06:43
E1-3 End playtime: 1:32:58
E1-3 in-game time: >6 hours, 16 minutes
E1-3 total playtime: 4:03:16
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LeonhartFour posted...

This is the definitive Little Thief simulation, I think.

In AAI1, definitely. I'd say there's one in AAI2 that really justifies the mechanic.

LeonhartFour posted...

As B8's preeminent (and perhaps only) Lauren Paups fan, I like her a lot here. Her animations are great, and I love how she has no sense of inner monologue when it comes to Edgeworth. Those moments when she feels herself swooning over him and she's trying to talk herself out of it are hilarious, I think. Of course, the fact that she's easily influenced and swayed is what made her so easy to manipulate, and for that, I feel a little sorry for her. Lauren really did seem to love Lance, and he took advantage of her and her father. There's also a really bittersweet moment when you talk to her about her pendant with the wings on it, and she says, "I believe that one day my father will come back to me riding on the wings of Pegasus." That one cut a little deep for me this time around.

I agree with everything here including enjoying Lauren, FWIW!

LeonhartFour posted...

E1-3 total playtime: 4:03:16

and yet like 1-3, i feel like people complain about this case's length
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Eh, I am not a fan of the one I'm sure you're thinking of because I hate the flipping back and forth between multiple simulations mechanic. It's not fun.
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Still think it's definitive, though, because of the way it's used and what's gleaned. But yeah, that end of E1-3 is really neat.
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I guess so, but the Haunted House is always what my mind goes straight to whenever Little Thief is brought up. It's probably a bit of "they did it first" there though.
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I disagree with most of how you guys feel about AAI1, especially 1-3

that's cool though
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