From: Wanglicious | #240 there's nothing unrealistic about it. dragon commander is, quite literally, the story about a man who can turn into a dragon with a jetpack, shoot nukes, and has dragon breath that melts half the enemy, ZOE2 style. he also gets to marry and cheat on an elf princess, a dwarf princess, and a skeleton princess whose kingdom considers her untouchable (but she likes to put on fake skin and breasts to look hot).
this is 100% realistic portrayal of a man who can turn into a dragon with a jetpack that shoots lasers. i mean, he's not exactly needing to settle for anything less.
Any less would be uncivilized
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
but if i see a dragon shoot a vector cannon in gameplay in any way more useful than ZOE2 had it, where you had to stand still for like 5 seconds for the damn thing to work, i will find a way to use that move to beat anyone's face in.
The time spent charging it up made it all the more sweet
Also you're not playing ZOE2 correctly until you play as Naked Jehuty and just spam Vector Cannon at the least appropriate moments
-- _foolmo_ 'and out of the blue and completely unprovoked came foolmo and his insult' - Anagram
Anyway I glanced briefly at the article Extha linked and I can't back up everything in it but it just seems like to me all the author was stating was that extremism on the issue of feminism isn't good, and I can agree with the first few examples I had the chance to read.
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http://firsthour.net/screenshots/suikoden-2/suikoden-2-luca-blight.JPG The Cult of Personality.
This isn't really something video games can address, it's a larger societal issue, namely that there's some messed up assumptions about attractive female characters in general.
And again it isn't even really an issue because there's nothing wrong with emphasizing female physical beauty.
-- We can't stop here. This is bat country. Brace for the G's, and fast heel-toe work.
And while it's targeted toward young men, it would be nice if the young men it was targeted at got a realistic view of women, instead of, for example, the new Tomb Raider.
the new Tomb Raider is fine, people are insane.
Uhh...
“To actually see what she goes through, to become hardened, to become this tomb raider than we know and love, or at least a new version of it," Gallagher told the Penny Arcade Report. "A big part of that journey is seeing some of the hits she’s taken along the way and why she had to get that inner strength and the inner core to become the woman that we all know. There is that sense of seeing it and being explicit about that. It’s part of the narrative.”
Rosenberg explained that the emphasis on Lara's suffering was intentional — and that their research into survivors of extreme situations revealed a common mantra: keep moving.
“You see that in the beginning of the game, where we begin to build her up and give her confidence to cross the ledge, cross the plane, she forages for food and she’s feeling really successful," Rosenberg said. "Then towards the end we start to really hit her, and to break her down. Her best friend is kidnapped, she’s taken hostage, she’s almost raped, we put her in this position where we turned her into a cornered animal.”
I don't get the problem. That seems to be sound logic on how to take someone and break them down. I've seen it in other games before and other mediums where the plot breaks the main character down in any number of ways before they rise up and become greater than they were before.
It's a horrible way to include character development. You've got a character who will be killing people left and right by the end of the game, and yet in scenes like this, she's not gonna be able to do a damn thing? It's throwing horrible stuff at her for the sake of seeing how much **** they can pile on before people will just say "enough".
And that's not even beginning to talk about the horrible, sexualized grunting and moaning during all of the trailers.
From: Panthera | #249 From: KamikazePotato | #226 You can't seriously look at something like, say, every fighting game ever created and tell me that gaming doesn't have serious issues to work out in regards to women. Fighting games really prove that the issue is not something video games can effectively tackle though. Compare two characters: Chun-li and Zangief. Chun is fairly modestly dressed (sure it's fairly tight, but I just went for a walk around the neighborhood and saw probably at least five women wearing something I'd call less modest), Zangief barely wears anything. Chun doesn't act in a particularly sexualized way, nor is she just some random love interest. Zangief is an irrelevant character (plot wise) with little personality who is constantly posing and showing off his muscles. Chun isn't the most realistically proportioned character ever, but she's closer to realistic than most people in the series as of Street Fighter IV and its fetish for impossible muscles, whereas Zangief is one of the less realistic looking people in the cast.
How many people will say anything about Zangief being there to try to appeal to women (not even whether he does or not, just whether the thought would even cross anyone's mind)? Next to no one. How many people will say Chun is there solely for sex appeal? A fair number. The point is, people have been conditioned to think any moderately attractive female character in fiction *must* be there solely for the sake of looking pretty, while it's hard to make a male character that would even raise eyebrows. This isn't really something video games can address, it's a larger societal issue, namely that there's some messed up assumptions about attractive female characters in general.
She's a girl OH NOES.
Also is there really any limit to number of ways the dragon can shoot the laser before it gets stale
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
From: Achromatic | #254 Anyway I glanced briefly at the article Extha linked and I can't back up everything in it but it just seems like to me all the author was stating was that extremism on the issue of feminism isn't good, and I can agree with the first few examples I had the chance to read.
OH NO ITS TIME FOR PEOPLE TO SHEEP CHRIS
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
won't lie, i did play like that once. i abused mummy, but it was worth it. nothing like 'i can blast giant spaceships out the sky with this but you can tank 5 of my cannon you goddamn cheap bastard'
however, this is a dragon. anubis might have cat ears and a tail, but this is a dragon with lasers.
larian will not disappoint. comedy and dragons is basically their forte.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
It's a horrible way to include character development. You've got a character who will be killing people left and right by the end of the game, and yet in scenes like this, she's not gonna be able to do a damn thing? It's throwing horrible stuff at her for the sake of seeing how much **** they can pile on before people will just say "enough".
And that's not even beginning to talk about the horrible, sexualized grunting and moaning during all of the trailers.
It's pretty much always like that in video games though!
Cutscene characters are either much stronger than their playable self (Dante, Bayonetta), or way weaker (Pretty much any JRPG character).
From: KamikazePotato | #255 How many people will say Chun is there solely for sex appeal? A fair number.
Uh, probably no one. Chun-Li is the poster girl for not being a poster girl in fighting games.
She was the only girl until Cammy showed up
In a sea of men.
Big, hairy men like Zangief
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
From: Wanglicious | #262 won't lie, i did play like that once. i abused mummy, but it was worth it. nothing like 'i can blast giant spaceships out the sky with this but you can tank 5 of my cannon you goddamn cheap bastard'
however, this is a dragon. anubis might have cat ears and a tail, but this is a dragon with lasers.
larian will not disappoint. comedy and dragons is basically their forte.
If a laser shooting dragon disappoints then something is horribly wrong
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
panzer dragoon saga's gameplay was real time battles revolving around you with a laser gun and a dragon who shoots lasers out of its mouth, along with other special moves that were really 'magic lasers.'
answer, no. never tired of it. in fact, you could customize your dragon to make its laser shooting more badass. as for your gun? didn't matter, dragon did it better. always.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
Uhh...“To actually see what she goes through, to become hardened, to become this tomb raider than we know and love, or at least a new version of it," Gallagher told the Penny Arcade Report. "A big part of that journey is seeing some of the hits she’s taken along the way and why she had to get that inner strength and the inner core to become the woman that we all know. There is that sense of seeing it and being explicit about that. It’s part of the narrative.”
Rosenberg explained that the emphasis on Lara's suffering was intentional — and that their research into survivors of extreme situations revealed a common mantra: keep moving.
“You see that in the beginning of the game, where we begin to build her up and give her confidence to cross the ledge, cross the plane, she forages for food and she’s feeling really successful," Rosenberg said. "Then towards the end we start to really hit her, and to break her down. Her best friend is kidnapped, she’s taken hostage, she’s almost raped, we put her in this position where we turned her into a cornered animal.”
I don't get the problem. That seems to be sound logic on how to take someone and break them down. I've seen it in other games before and other mediums where the plot breaks the main character down in any number of ways before they rise up and become greater than they were before.
It's a horrible way to include character development. You've got a character who will be killing people left and right by the end of the game, and yet in scenes like this, she's not gonna be able to do a damn thing? It's throwing horrible stuff at her for the sake of seeing how much **** they can pile on before people will just say "enough".
And that's not even beginning to talk about the horrible, sexualized grunting and moaning during all of the trailers.
I have watched the trailer twice and I didn't come away with the grunts and moans being sexual in nature at all. That is how people react when they either exert themselves or are in pain. I guess I've seen enough women's tennis to make that call. The developers don't seem like they are doing it for their own amusement and I thought what he said was well reasoned. Whenever I have to write one of my characters going through something bad it actually breaks my heart a lot of the time, but the trailer I saw appeared to have a purpose. Terrible stuff can shape a person. I don't understand why this is any different than Bruce Wayne's parents being killed. Or the Bride in Kill Bill's entire wedding scene. It's just there for character development, and she is going to overcome it all.
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http://firsthour.net/screenshots/suikoden-2/suikoden-2-luca-blight.JPG The Cult of Personality.
So is this 5 pages of /r/mensrights or what? Although I see something about that Divinity game and dragons with vector cannons as well. Much better direction for a topic to go in.
From: KamikazePotato | #255 Uh, probably no one. Chun-Li is the poster girl for not being a poster girl in fighting games. This has not played out at all in my experience, I have seen her be directly referred to as purely a sex object quite a few times (not as in "I see her as one", as in "the developers put her there to be one"), as well as quite a few claims that every single female fighting game character ever qualifies (which is obviously going to include Chun, what with her being the most famous example).
From: ExThaNemesis | #256 And again it isn't even really an issue because there's nothing wrong with emphasizing female physical beauty. The point I'm making isn't about emphasizing female beauty, it's that people will assume that an attractive female character must be solely there to look pretty regardless of whether or not she's also a realistic character whose attractiveness isn't a primary aspect of her role in the story at all.
From: PartOfYourWorld | #259 From: Panthera | #249 Zangief is an irrelevant character Sir, I glove slap you. Plot wise! I said plot wise!
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
From: Wanglicious | #269 panzer dragoon saga's gameplay was real time battles revolving around you with a laser gun and a dragon who shoots lasers out of its mouth, along with other special moves that were really 'magic lasers.'
answer, no. never tired of it. in fact, you could customize your dragon to make its laser shooting more badass. as for your gun? didn't matter, dragon did it better. always.
Dragons SHOULD do it better.
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
The point I'm making isn't about emphasizing female beauty, it's that people will assume that an attractive female character must be solely there to look pretty regardless of whether or not she's also a realistic character whose attractiveness isn't a primary aspect of her role in the story at all.
Oh right then, I misunderstood you.
-- We can't stop here. This is bat country. Brace for the G's, and fast heel-toe work.
I have seen her be directly referred to as purely a sex object quite a few times
And I have never seen this. Chun-Li has more clothes on than most men in games.
The point I'm making isn't about emphasizing female beauty, it's that people will assume that an attractive female character must be solely there to look pretty regardless of whether or not she's also a realistic character whose attractiveness isn't a primary aspect of her role in the story at all.
Because it is often the case, while it is very rarely the case for male characters.
From: Wanglicious | #275 most of this topic is about dragons, dinosaurs, and lasers.
some people insist on making it about female issues, but more important matters are being discussed.
Let the fools embark on their trivial matters, Tom definitely understands what's important here.
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
New Tomb Raider looks amazing. The people shouting "torture porn" are just trying to discredit it because they feel wrongly ashamed to be associated with it as gamers, which is BS. That dev team is doing something new and ballsy, and the product is probably the one game I'm most hyped for right now.
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Yoblazer: http://oi50.tinypic.com/119ukhg.jpg Watch and you'll see... someday I'll be... part of your world!
From: KamikazePotato | #278 I have seen her be directly referred to as purely a sex object quite a few times
And I have never seen this. Chun-Li has more clothes on than most men in games.
The point I'm making isn't about emphasizing female beauty, it's that people will assume that an attractive female character must be solely there to look pretty regardless of whether or not she's also a realistic character whose attractiveness isn't a primary aspect of her role in the story at all.
Because it is often the case, while it is very rarely the case for male characters.
Honestly I have no idea how you've never seen it to be fair
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
for all Guilty Gear 2's faults, Sol did enter a more advanced stage of dragon install. he was more dragon-like. he was also better and shot more fire for longer distances. and he was able to compete against "That Man," the ultimate uh.... assumed villain of the series. sorta. most powerful anyway.
point is, dragons will save Guilty Gear. and he'll shoot fire lasers in the process.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
From: KamikazePotato | #278 Because it is often the case, while it is very rarely the case for male characters. The point is that it doesn't matter how often it actually is, people will assume it to be so even if it isn't. The video game industry could go a year where every single female character in every single game was realistic and well written, and as long as most of them were good looking, there would be a sizable pool of people dismissing them as pure eye candy, and people would still go on about how the video game industry only includes female characters for sex appeal.
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
Dragons are bad enough dudes to rescue the President.
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
Panthera, there's literally an industry that has already gone through that process but no one cares to know about it, for precisely the reasons you said.
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You're messing with me! You're messing with me, aren't you!? You're making fun of me, aren't you!? Aren't you!? You definitely are! I'll murder you!
Considering gaming hasn't even gotten close to like 1/4 of women in gaming being realistic and well-written, maybe that's not really an assumption to be made.
Either way, I don't see why it matters. There will always be people that judge stuff only by looks, the industry shouldn't throw its hands up and surrender because of some stupid people.
Any article that cites Men's Rights blogs, uses the word "slut" completely unironically, or uses "alpha" and "beta" probably has an ulterior motive, and that motive is "Women are inferior".
Yeah, that includes that horrible scrall that ExTha posted.
But seriously, I don't get why you need $6,000 to produce an analytic video series, much less $80,000. Also, the original Spyro trilogy was really good. I wish Insomniac would start making those again somehow.
From: yoshifan823 | #288 I'll give you all a hint:
Any article that cites Men's Rights blogs, uses the word "slut" completely unironically, or uses "alpha" and "beta" probably has an ulterior motive, and that motive is "Women are inferior".
Yeah, that includes that horrible scrall that ExTha posted.
Did you even actually click on it just wondering
From: YetAnothrShadow | #287 So this talk of dragons has got me wondering.
How's that Spyro Skylanders game? I hear it's basically a figure collectathon but how is the actual game itself?
THERE'S A NEW SPYRO GAME!?
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
i was interested in the spyro game until i realized that i would have to collect so many toys i might as well grab a backpack, stuff a bird in it, and call myself banjo for some bizarre reason with the amount of collecting necessary. i'm not convinced anyone played that game yet.
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"Maybe it's a tentacle, molesting the planet itself. - Aschen Brodel.
Any article that cites Men's Rights blogs, uses the word "slut" completely unironically, or uses "alpha" and "beta" probably has an ulterior motive, and that motive is "Women are inferior".
Yeah, that includes that horrible scrall that ExTha posted.
I will take your well thought out counter argument into high scrutiny.
There's no ulterior motive, he's making a prediction based on trends and factual information and if you go look at his track record he's usually right about these things.
-- We can't stop here. This is bat country. Brace for the G's, and fast heel-toe work.
From: yoshifan823 | #288 I'll give you all a hint:
Any article that cites Men's Rights blogs, uses the word "slut" completely unironically, or uses "alpha" and "beta" probably has an ulterior motive, and that motive is "Women are inferior".
Yeah, that includes that horrible scrall that ExTha posted.
Did you even actually click on it just wondering
Yeah, I did. There's an entire section about how sexbots are gonna make the world better for men, because then women have to learn how to make men feel loved again.
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
I hear Skylanders is decent as a game, but most gamers seem to refuse to play it as a matter of principle. I can't disagree, given the amount of money you have to put together to play a "decent" game.
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"God Hand is the ultimate expression of the joy of humanity, specifically the punching part of the joy of humanity."-Shigeru Miyamoto
Any article that cites Men's Rights blogs, uses the word "slut" completely unironically, or uses "alpha" and "beta" probably has an ulterior motive, and that motive is "Women are inferior".
Yeah, that includes that horrible scrall that ExTha posted.
I didn't get that vibe from the article at all. I don't agree with everything I have read but it just seems like social commentary to me. The author discussed some fair points about laws, made a couple of silly points to me, but the general tone even in the things I disagreed with came off as intelligent and reasoned.
You haven't lived up to the same standard, I am afraid. I think you are the one who wants Lara Croft in that trailer to be the victim of something, because from a story telling point of view it was a very powerful scene.
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http://firsthour.net/screenshots/suikoden-2/suikoden-2-luca-blight.JPG The Cult of Personality.
From: paperwarior | #295 I hear Skylanders is decent as a game, but most gamers seem to refuse to play it as a matter of principle. I can't disagree, given the amount of money you have to put together to play a "decent" game.
Is this about DLC?
DID THEY ****ING RUIN A GAME WITH DRAGONS? HOW DO YOU RUIN A GAME WITH DRAGONS
Though Eragon did it as a movie
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.
From: ToukaOone | #285 Panthera, there's literally an industry that has already gone through that process but no one cares to know about it, for precisely the reasons you said. Which industry is this?
From: KamikazePotato | #286 Either way, I don't see why it matters. There will always be people that judge stuff only by looks, the industry shouldn't throw its hands up and surrender because of some stupid people. I never said that the games industry shouldn't try to be better at it (it should try to be better at writing in general, it's not like female characters are the only problem here, they're just a bit more crap than all the rest of the ****), just that convincing people that an improvement has happened is not something the games industry can pull off all that easily no matter what it does.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
Any article that cites Men's Rights blogs, uses the word "slut" completely unironically, or uses "alpha" and "beta" probably has an ulterior motive, and that motive is "Women are inferior".
Yeah, that includes that horrible scrall that ExTha posted.
I didn't get that vibe from the article at all. I don't agree with everything I have read but it just seems like social commentary to me. The author discussed some fair points about laws, made a couple of silly points to me, but the general tone even in the things I disagreed with came off as intelligent and reasoned.
You haven't lived up to the same standard, I am afraid. I think you are the one who wants Lara Croft in that trailer to be the victim of something, because from a story telling point of view it was a very powerful scene.
Chris laying the LAW down.
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Never underestimate the power of stupidity in numbers. ~War13104 Never stoop to the level of idiots. They will drag you down and beat you with experience.