Board 8 > Freedom, Liberty, Ron Paul - The Topic [no wars] [no income tax] [no TSA]

(+) Yeah! (+)

What more could you possibly want?

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
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No racist presidents.

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I agree! Electing Ron Paul WOULD replace a racist president with a non-racist one. Good point, sess!

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
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income tax

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The Inflation

The sweet, sweet, inflation. Can you see it? $10 gas, Dow 30,000.......we can all be rich.

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SmartMuffin posted...
I agree! Electing Ron Paul WOULD replace a racist president with a non-racist one. Good point, sess!

Thank you! Down with OBAMER!

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no more mr. nice sess....hello mr. nice watch!
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I like war

what do you think I am, canadian?

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_foolmo_
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You can word it in very clear language.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Seems pretty clear to me.

And yet, about a decade later, they threw people in jail for calling the President fat.

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Canada achieved great success in both world wars, you know!

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foolm0ron posted...
I like war

what do you think I am, canadian?

you know who else likes peace and not acting aggressively towards the rest of the world?

liberals.

are you becoming a communist smuffin?

I love how this topic gets more posts than the contest stats and discussion topic... on the contests message board lol

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You do realized that the Alien & Sedition Acts never made it to the Supreme Court, right?

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From: red sox 777 | #009
Canada achieved great success in both world wars, you know!

If by success you mean not being mentioned in any history books anywhere then yeah I guess

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From: Liquid Wind | #010
you know who else likes peace and not acting aggressively towards the rest of the world?

liberals.

Nah, liberals care too much about fixing the wrongs in the world like Kony and Gaddafi and Ahmadinejad and child hunger and civil wars and stuff. They want peace, but only after fixing all of these problems by force.

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From: red sox 777 | #012
You do realized that the Alien & Sedition Acts never made it to the Supreme Court, right?

I thought it did and they upheld it. Maybe I'm confusing this with the Wilson one?

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
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Probably. The Alien & Sedition Acts got overturned by the new President and new majority in Congress before it got up that far in the courts.

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tagging an epic topic

Anybody else surprised at how Ron Paul's latest money bomb is at a million? I thought everyone had given up for a while there.

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Some people have given up, I'm sure. It definitely should've been higher by now.

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_foolmo_
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It does seem strange that people are still donating to a hopeless campaign- probably just to make a statement.

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2.7% inflation in March, folks. Good, we're finally getting inflation up to that 3% zone fairly consistently. Give QE1 and QE2 some more time to work their way through the economy and hopefully we can get inflation up to 4-5%.

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Damn if Romney had personally bought me a $5 sub I totally would've voted for him.

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_foolmo_
'It's easy to get yourself in trouble if you start quoting people who don't like you in your signature' - Mods

Disappointed in President Obama for blaming the high oil prices on speculators. That's a lie that's well over 100 years old. Market manipulation is never the reason the price of something reaches a high level for an extended period of time. Obama should know (and does know) better, but is pandering.

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bump

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Man you can't just bump, you gotta post something.

like this:


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_foolmo_
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From: foolm0ron | #013
If by success you mean not being mentioned in any history books anywhere then yeah I guess

Netherlands loves us man

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awwwwwww yeah!

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
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Opinion polls show France electing a Socialist as president this weekend.

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http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/04/18/new-law-virginia-will-not-cooperate-with-ndaa-detention/

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at work all day

didnt have time to find anything to add

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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1339254269/ron-paul-road-to-revolution

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Looking forward to a bright future in America where 50% of people are unemployed.

If you don't support increasing unemployment to 50% as a goal, remember that if you support employment, you support labor. If you support labor, you must be a Communist.

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There's a difference between labor and labor unions. A pretty huge one, actually.

Capitalists believe that everyone who works counts as labor. Communists believe only farmers and factory workers and teachers do.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
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No, Communists believe in the importance of labor in all its forms. Capitalists believe in the value of capital (i.e. property) to an economy.

Also, where were/are the labor unions in the Soviet Union and China? I don't think Communism tolerates any labor unions that compete with it. No, no, Communism hates competition above all.

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Anyway, I'm trying to illustrate a contradiction I see in the thinking of a lot of middle class people, especially tea partiers. They claim to support capitalism, and spout economic theories and policies that support the value of property/capital. Free market policies.

However, their own beliefs, held deep down, their values, are that labor is important. To these people, someone deserves their wealth because they worked for it. But that is utterly foreign to capitalism and the economic theories these people claim they support and vote for. Someone deserves their wealth because someone else is willing to give it to them. That's all. The price of something is what someone else will pay for it. Nothing more. Work/labor/moral deservingness has nothing to do with it.

Then they vote for Republicans thinking that Republican policies will help them, when those policies will not. Because those policies help capitalists, not workers. And these people are workers, in fact and at heart, but not in their minds.

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These are the people who complain very loudly about welfare "abuse." They dream up all sorts of indignities we should impose on the poor in the name of stopping welfare fraud, which are almost certain to cost a lot more money in paying government employees than savings from stopping fraud.

You can tell a lot about a Republican candidate by imagining his honest response on this issue.

Rick Santorum: There are so many undeserving welfare queens milking the system and we need to stop them from exploiting law abiding, hardworking, blue collar workers!

Mitt Romney: Really? This is a huge waste of my time; there can't be very much money being exploited from welfare, it doesn't even pay out very much total.

Ron Paul: Maybe, but the real problem, the problem that is about a million times bigger than welfare fraud, is the Federal Reserve!

What shall we conclude from these responses? That Rick Santorum, and any politician who gives a similar answer, is not a real capitalist, no matter how much they claim to be.

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Right. I mean, to complain about welfare "abuse" sort of implies that welfare in and of itself is somehow not abuse of those being forced to provide it against their will. Any good free-market thinker would certainly not concede that point.

I'm pretty neutral when it comes to the whole "drug tests for people on welfare!" argument. It's an unimportant argument that distracts us from the REAL issue at hand, which is, why do we believe it's morally acceptable to point a gun at someone and force them to give their money to someone else.

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Right, the outrage should be directed at the taking, then at big spending, and only at the very end at small spending.

But personally I'm fine with welfare, even welfare on a massive scale, in the future. Ideally it would be privatized. People can enter into a contract where they pay the company a percentage of their income above a certain threshold, and receive welfare payments from the company if their income is below a certain threshold.

I think this may be necessary in the future, because as technology gets better and better and barriers to world trade continue to erode, I don't think it will be efficient for the US to have full employment or close to it. The idea that everyone should work may be becoming outdated for the most advanced country in the world. Indeed, a higher percentage of Americans work now than in past decades because women have entered the workforce, even while technology has dramatically improved productivity. So it's natural if the job market for 99% of us has gotten worse since the 70s- the underlying economic conditions have pushed it along.

And when faced with changing underlying economic conditions, you don't try to fight them. You adapt. The idea that everyone should work, and if you don't work you are lazy or undeserving might (a big might mind you) make sense in an economy where few people have highly specialized skills and thus anyone who wants to work can find at least generalized work. But as jobs become more and more specialized, while we need fewer and fewer people for generalized work because of better technology and increased global trade, matching people to jobs becomes a more difficult process for the economy. Specialization is good for the economy in the aggregate as Adam Smith observed, but there is a lot of risk introduced on an individual level.

So we create a welfare system, to mitigate that risk. You buy a welfare policy (with your possible future earnings) to protect yourself from possible unemployment in the future.

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Congrats to your alls boy Ron Paul for winning Iowa and Minnesota

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People can enter into a contract where they pay the company a percentage of their income above a certain threshold, and receive welfare payments from the company if their income is below a certain threshold.

We already have this, except the government does it. Are you not familiar with the thousands of accounts of people who won't apply for minimum wage jobs because it would make them ineligible for unemployment?

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We already have this, except the government does it. Are you not familiar with the thousands of accounts of people who won't apply for minimum wage jobs because it would make them ineligible for unemployment?

We don't, because people don't get to choose to be subject to taxes in exchange for being eligible for welfare.

And I'm not familiar with the people who don't apply for jobs so they can receive unemployment instead. I think that's a very small group relative to the whole population. It's not like unemployment pays more than what a minimum wage job does, so there's no incentive problem here.

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It's not like unemployment pays more than what a minimum wage job does

It may. It depends on your last job. It pays you a percentage of what you used to earn, doesn't it?

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Does it really? I didn't know that- though it probably doesn't matter all that much. You're still going to be motivated to get a new job that pays as much or nearly as much as your old job, and unemployment won't do that. I guess the argument is that if you are, say, an engineer who was laid off, it's better for the country for you to be searching for a new engineering job full time rather than wasting time working at McDonald's.

Under my proposed system, it would depend on your expected earning potential at the time you enter into the contract, and your voluntary choice of how much in premiums to pay. The higher a percentage of your future income you agree to pay, the higher your benefits will be if you wind up not working or working in a low-paying job.

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t's better for the country for you to be searching for a new engineering job full time rather than wasting time working at McDonald's.

Not when we have an excess of engineers and a lack of fry cooks.

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But exactly the opposite is the reality. We have a shortage of engineers and an excess of fry cooks.

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From: red sox 777 | #047
But exactly the opposite is the reality. We have a shortage of engineers and an excess of fry cooks.

Well if we had a shortage of engineers, they wouldn't be getting laid off. And if we had an excess of fry cooks, they wouldn't be hiring new ones.

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Individual engineers may get laid off even when there is a shortage of engineers in the economy. For example, if a particular tech company goes bust. And naturally, the more complex the job, the longer the hiring process for that job is

And if you don't believe that we indeed have a shortage of engineers and not of fry cooks, consider why engineers are paid so much more.

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And if you don't believe that we indeed have a shortage of engineers and not of fry cooks, consider why engineers are paid so much more.

We have a shortage of people who are qualified to be engineers and an excess of people who are qualified to be fry cooks, yes.

However, we may very well have more engineers than are necessary due to current consumer demand, and fewer fry cooks than are necessary.

Would you suggest that the job with the biggest shortage in America is CEOs? Or Major League Baseball players?

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