Board 8 > Canada abolishes the penny?!

(+) Yeah! (+)

$1 coins > $1 bills

From: charmander6000 | #034


I welcome the new flying bills.

Holy **** that is an awesome bill.

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More important than the issue of the $1 and $2 coins however, is the higher denomination bills. We used to have $500, $1000, $5000, etc. bills. Back when $500 could buy a house, even. Today, it is not even that much money, and we have no bills higher than $100.

The result is that it is very difficult to do even medium sized transactions like purchasing a big screen tv or used car with cash. And forget about doing large transactions, like buying a house, in cash. Choices are good, and the people should have the legal currency of the nation as one of their choices, in addition to credit and bank accounts and whatnot.

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charmander6000 posted...


I welcome the new flying bills.

Look through the maple leaf, and see the world through the eyes of a Canadian.

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red sox 777 posted...
We should get rid of the penny and increase production of $1 coins.

Before we do the $1 coins, we need to do something about all the vending machines that don't take them. I'm of the opinion that that's why the coins never seem to catch on here, machines don't take them.

We could stop production of $1 bills. That would force the machine vendors to change.

Dollars are the new quarters after all- I hate paying for something with ten $1 bills that have accumulated as I've gotten change back for $10 and $20 bills.

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Liquid Wind posted...
legalizing prostitution, abolishing the penny

why is canada kicking our asses lately? step it up US lawmakers

.......lately?

Have you paid attention to Canadian law vs american law in the past, oh, 40 years?

40 years ago: Canada adopts the Metric system.
20 years ago: Canada replaces the $1 and $2 bills with coins
Almost a decade ago: Canada legalizes gay marriage

I don't think it's so much that Canada is the future as America is stuck in the past. I mean...forget Canada, America is actually dangerously close to falling behind Mexico in a lot of these areas. (Mexico uses metric, and has legal gay civil unions, and has it's smallest coin as 5 Centavos...although 5 centavos are worth less than $0.01, so ).

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From: Leebo86 | #026
"it won't solve the debt crisis in one step" isn't a reason to keep doing something stupid...

By all means we should do it, but I can guarantee that any bill that cancels the production of pennies will probably add even more spending. Even if it is just a straight up elimination of the pennies, it's just not anything significant.

From: Paratroopa1 | #031
Your lack of progressivism is why the Canadian dollar is stronger these days.

It's definitely not enough to make a statement like this even close to true. The Canadian dollar is stronger because they don't print tons of money every year to fight wars and to send to dictators all over the world.
$11 million or $70 million or even $1 billion is barely even worth it for an issue that could cause a lot of contention, like getting rid of the penny.

It's not like physical money even matters nowadays. Soon enough all our transactions will be done through cards and cash will be a thing of homeless people, drug dealers, and hipsters. I guess we've pretty much reached that point already.

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It's not like physical money even matters nowadays. Soon enough all our transactions will be done through cards and cash will be a thing of homeless people, drug dealers, and hipsters. I guess we've pretty much reached that point already.

But the rest of the world has not. Cash is well and thriving in Europe and China. This is not a good thing for the US.

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We should stick with the Imperial/Standard system. It is so much more fun than the metric system. Acceleration due to gravity is 32 ft/s or 9.8 m/s. 32 is so much cooler and a better number than 9.8. I mean, 9.8? You couldn't even get a nice round number like 10?

The traditional system is better on things that matter, like temperature (100 = really hot, 0 = really cold), and snow depth in the Northeastern US (6 inches = moderate storm, 1 foot = good storm, 2 feet = big storm). Who cares about the distance between the north pole and the equator or the boiling point of water?

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From: metroid composite | #057
Have you paid attention to Canadian law vs american law in the past, oh, 40 years?

As if those issues are significant enough to judge a country by.

Metric/Imperial is largely preference, and I can make an argument for why Imperial and Fahrenheit are better in all aspects except cooking. Of course, if you're talking about scientific calculations and such, obviously metric is the most convenient, and that's why the US also uses it there.

Canada legalizing gay marriage just shows that they have the same problem we have - too much government involvement in marriage. You might think their unnecessary control of marriage is handled better than our unnecessary control of marriage, but that's a superficial difference.

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Also shut up red sox 9.8 m/s is excellent, and you often DO approximate it as 10 when accuracy isn't a big deal.

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Though I suppose it makes sense that the US would be the first to transition to a pure credit system. We are the country that made credit big after all. Credit is and has been the foundation of the US economy for over 150 years.

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oh my god they killed penny

how sad :(

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From: red sox 777 | Posted: 4/4/2012 1:56:25 AM | #059
We should stick with the Imperial/Standard system. It is so much more fun than the metric system. Acceleration due to gravity is 32 ft/s or 9.8 m/s. 32 is so much cooler and a better number than 9.8. I mean, 9.8? You couldn't even get a nice round number like 10?

is this a real post

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From: red sox 777 | #063
Though I suppose it makes sense that the US would be the first to transition to a pure credit system.

Doesn't have to be credit. My main spending tool right now is my debit card, which is equivalent to cash. The only time I ever use cash is when I have to pay people back for things or go to little places that don't take cards.

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Also shut up red sox 9.8 m/s is excellent, and you often DO approximate it as 10 when accuracy isn't a big deal.

No, you don't. It's an acceleration term, so to get to position you have to square it. After just 5 seconds you're off by 5 meters, which is a pretty big distance.

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Doesn't have to be credit. My main spending tool right now is my debit card, which is equivalent to cash. The only time I ever use cash is when I have to pay people back for things or go to little places that don't take cards.

Debit cards are credit. It's drawing on a bank.

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1 and 2 dollar coins are excellent for vending machines. That's one major reason to adopt them.

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From: red sox 777 | #067
No, you don't. It's an acceleration term, so to get to position you have to square it. After just 5 seconds you're off by 5 meters, which is a pretty big distance.

Do you understand how approximations work? If I'm measuring something in km over a short time, then I don't care about 5 meters. I mean, approximating 9.80665 m/s to 9.8 m/s can be bad, too. After just 15 seconds, you're off by 1 meter. That's huge if you're designing a bomb targetting system, for example.

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Do you understand how approximations work? If I'm measuring something in km over a short time, then I don't care about 5 meters. I mean, approximating 9.80665 m/s to 9.8 m/s can be bad, too. After just 15 seconds, you're off by 1 meter. That's huge if you're designing a bomb targetting system, for example.

Duh. But 9.8 to 10 is not a good approximation. And if you're measuring something in km, the timespan for the gravitational acceleration is probably going to be pretty long, enough to make a pretty big difference.

And yes, 9.80665 to 9.8 is far far better an approximation than 9.8 to 10.

*Also, I misspoke earlier. The error after 5 seconds is only 2.5m. Still pretty significant.

And come on. I literally said I liked the standard system because the number 32 is cool. Which is true, but that is obviously totally subjective.

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It does seem kind of scary at first but I suppose they probably should do it. I pretty much came to all these conclusions before I watched it, but his other video,



further proves the point.

One of the things I question is, Canada says if you pay with your debit card and not cash, the exact amount will be deducted from your account, but when they run out of pennies, if you go to collect your money, they're not going be able to pay you the exact amount. I don't think this is really a big deal either, but I think it's woth pointing out that they neglected to mention that in either of the videos.

Another not so big of a deal, is that I also wonder how many people will actually turn them in, I'd definitely keep a few rolls for the collectors sake, mainly cause if they really do go almost completely out of circulation, they're gona be worth a pretty penny lol (especially the pennies that are already rare).

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red sox 777 | Posted 4/4/2012 1:40:40 AM | message detail | quote
We could stop production of $1 bills. That would force the machine vendors to change.

Most modern vending machines already accept $1 coins, but older ones would need to be replaced.

More $1 coins need to be made, as collectors are hording the coins for themselves and restricting the amount of coins available in circulation. It is very important to use the same design for several decades so billions of $1 coins exist with the same design, removing the incentive for collectors to horde the $1 coins for themselves. We can't afford stupid gimmicks like the $1 presidential coins. Here is a partial list of known coin designs that have been used for 3 or more full decades:

Indian head penny (1859-1909)
Lincoln head wheat penny (1909-1958)
Lincoln head memorial penny (1959-2008)
Jefferson nickel (1939-2003)
Roosevelt dime (1946-present) - ongoing coin series
Washington quarter (1932-1998)
Kennedy half dollar (1964-present) - ongoing coin series

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Imperial so bad.

I still hate when something calls for "cups" of something.

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imperial kicks ass

metric does work very nicely for science though

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From: foolm0ron | #058
Even if it is just a straight up elimination of the pennies, it's just not anything significant.

This was in one of the other anti-penny videos, but did you see the part about how much time it is estimated that people waste trying to use pennies when they're paying for stuff (or giving back change)? That's part of what the penny removal aims to reduce, not just the explicit cost of penny production. There are enough people in the US that the time spent trying to use pennies ends up being some ridiculous amount of man-hours, time that would be better spent on just about anything else.

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foolm0ron posted...
Metric/Imperial is largely preference, and I can make an argument for why Imperial and Fahrenheit are better in all aspects except cooking. Of course, if you're talking about scientific calculations and such, obviously metric is the most convenient, and that's why the US also uses it there.

No they're...really not largely preference.

As far as Science goes, funny story, the US is lagging behind a lot of countries in Science education. I wonder why that is.

Even when not doing science...

let's say someone tells you that the distance from their house to your house is a quarter of a mile. Quick, how many feet is that? Or if you prefer: how many Yards? You have 10 seconds.

Now, let's say someone says that the interior of their house is so big, it's a tenth of an Acre. Quick, tell me, is this a big house, a small house, a mansion, a doghouse? Again, you have 10 seconds. (Oh, by the way, fun fact: an Acre is defined as a 1 Furlong x 1 Chain; hope that helps).

Someone tells you that they had several pints of beer; probably about a dozen. How many gallons did they have? (Ok, admittedly this one I do expect you to be able to tell me off the top of your head if you actually like imperial).

There's a great deal on 10 ounce bags of nuts at the grocery store. You decide to buy a dozen of them. How many pounds of nuts did you just buy? (Although yeah, this one isn't so bad either)



All of these questions would be brainlessly simple with metric; you'd know the answer in about 1 second--basically the moment you finished reading the question. Metric is just better.

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And while I'm on my soap box...I wish people would metricize time.

1 deciday ~= a couple of hours
1 miliday ~= one minute
10 microdays ~= one second

I mean, yes, I realize to scientists that the earth spinning doesn't actually have any real scientific value. But it does have an awful lot of practical daily value.

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Revolutionary France tried metric time, but it was abandoned because it was extremely unpopular. I think in part at least, the reason was that people hated 10-day weeks, with still only 1 day of rest.

Also, I highly doubt the reason the US is lagging in science education is that we don't use the metric system. It's because parents and students don't see science education as important here.


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From: metroid composite | #077
As far as Science goes, funny story, the US is lagging behind a lot of countries in Science education. I wonder why that is.

It's not because we don't use metric, because we do.

Also, I don't see why you are trying to complicate things. The point of Imperial is that it's intuitive for real life measurements. A "quarter mile" is all you need to understand how far something is. You don't need to translate it into feet.

You don't measure a house in acres, you measure it in sq ft. If you DID have a house that was more than 1 acre, you would know it's a massive ass house.

And Imperial volume is probably one of the best. 1 pint of beer = 1 unit of alcohol. 1 cup of wine = 1 unit of alcohol. 1 shot = 1.5 oz = 1 unit of alcohol. The fact that bottles of alcohol are measured in liters messes it up pretty hard because in 750ml, how many shots are there? It's some messed up decimal.

The reason that metric is ideal for science is because it's scalable. You can use the same unit of measurement for the distance a molecule goes in a second as you can the diameter of the molecule. There is huge power in that. Not to mention the scaling can go theoretically infinitely, since you can just make up a new name for the next power of 1000. This simply isn't necessary for every day life on Earth, where values are pretty much the same all the time.

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From: foolm0ron | #070
Do you understand how approximations work? If I'm measuring something in km over a short time, then I don't care about 5 meters. I mean, approximating 9.80665 m/s to 9.8 m/s can be bad, too. After just 15 seconds, you're off by 1 meter. That's huge if you're designing a bomb targetting system, for example.

10 - 9.8 / 9.8 * 100 = 2% error

9.80665 - 9.8 / 9.8 * 100 = .06% error

I'd say that 33.3 times the amount of error is a pretty big difference, and most science classes consider 2% error a big deal, especially when it's so easy to get rid of

Not trying to derail this topic though!! Pennies suck! Yay metric system (except for in temperature, I hate it for temperature (except for boiling a freezing water, it's nice for that))

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Also, why do we have 2-liter bottles AND gallon milk jugs

the fact that we use both is the worst part about the USAs system

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From: special_sauce | #081
10 - 9.8 / 9.8 * 100 = 2% error

9.80665 - 9.8 / 9.8 * 100 = .06% error

Oh hey thanks for showing me the math, I totally had no idea that 10 was a worse approximation that 9.8
You are oh so very smart and I bow down to your intelligence

You are indeed so smart that you can't even understand the extremely simple concept that they are applications where 2% or even 5% or more error is insignificant.

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Like Cosmology (where the joke is that you're good if you are within 1 order of magnitude)? It's an acceleration term, remember, so that 2% becomes much much bigger very rapidly.

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And now that I think about it, a 2% error in the (universal, not Earth) gravitational constant would probably not be okay even for Cosmology..... Try extending that 2% error over a few billion years, and we'll get well beyond an order of magnitude (1000% error) pretty quickly.

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And Imperial volume is probably one of the best

Honestly, volume is the only part of imperial I can't stand. There are teaspoons, tablespoons, fluid ounces, cups, quarts, pints, and gallons... seven units to keep track of and I still don't yet have any way of measuring things that are very small (e.g. raindrops) or very large (e.g. a lake... I guess you use cubic yards? If so we're up to 8). When I hear a drink is X fluid ounces, I have trouble parsing what that means, because that's not even the unit I'm used to measuring drinks in. I find metric far easier, here... easy to scale back and forth between litres and milliltres. That 355 mL can of coke is easily compared to the 4000 mL jug of milk.

As far as other units goes, I'm also not a huge fan of Farenheit either just because 0 F is completely meaningless, which is inelegant. It has no flaws beyond that, though. DIstance is also generally fine, although I can't really think of any advantages imperial has... and it does have a fairly big failing for small distances; I don't want to use things like 3/256 of an inch, thanks. Feet/inches work fine for modest heights, though, such as people.

Metric time... eh. In theory there's no reason why it couldn't work as long as you don't extend it to things larger than days. As long as we live on earth, days and years are two absolutely fundamental units which we should never try to do away with, and months (which roughly equate to a lunar cycle) are a pretty good bridge between them. Dividing the day into fractions of 10 instead of 24, 1000 instead of 1440, and 100000 instead of 86400... no reason that wouldn't work. Though at this point there's probably too much inertia to change, though. I'll settle for 12 hour time being abolished in favour of 24 hour, as vengeance for all those times I accidentally set an alarm for 7 pm instead of 7 am. What kind of idiotic system repeats all the numbers twice in one cycle?

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NeoElfboy posted...
I'll settle for 12 hour time being abolished in favour of 24 hour, as vengeance for all those times I accidentally set an alarm for 7 pm instead of 7 am. What kind of idiotic system repeats all the numbers twice in one cycle?

The military is way ahead of ya.

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foolm0ron posted...
The point of Imperial is that it's intuitive for real life measurements. A "quarter mile" is all you need to understand how far something is. You don't need to translate it into feet.

If you grew up with it, then a quarter kilometer or half kilometer is ALSO intuitive, AND has the bonus of being easily translatable AS WELL.

It's like the best of both worlds.

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Metric time... eh. In theory there's no reason why it couldn't work as long as you don't extend it to things larger than days. As long as we live on earth, days and years are two absolutely fundamental units which we should never try to do away with, and months (which roughly equate to a lunar cycle) are a pretty good bridge between them. Dividing the day into fractions of 10 instead of 24, 1000 instead of 1440, and 100000 instead of 86400... no reason that wouldn't work. Though at this point there's probably too much inertia to change, though.

I can think of 2 reasons why changing from seconds/minutes/hours is a terrible idea.

- First of all, seconds/minutes/hours are used all around the world: everyone knows how long they are, and there's really no point to changing it, other than to get them to powers of 10. One reason to switch to the metric system, is to make communication between different countries easier. This incentive does not exist for time.

- Another point to using powers of ten is because changing from one unit to the next one is easier than with imperial units. However, you're not touching days/months/years, since those have an astronomical meaning. So you still have some work to do to change from milli-days to years.

I'll settle for 12 hour time being abolished in favour of 24 hour, as vengeance for all those times I accidentally set an alarm for 7 pm instead of 7 am. What kind of idiotic system repeats all the numbers twice in one cycle?

Just one more reason why Europe rocks. I've never set my alarm clock to 19h when I wanted to set it to 7h. >_>

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From: special_sauce | #082
Also, why do we have 2-liter bottles AND gallon milk jugs

the fact that we use both is the worst part about the USAs system

because they're just the right size!

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I didn't know we were getting rid of the penny; neat.


Also seriously, you Americans don't use $1 coins?

What is even the point of bringing change out then in that case.... just quarters? You only use quarters or smaller for vending machines?



Ugh without loonies and toonies I wouldn't even bother with change at all, even quarters. Even $2 in quarters is out of hand, yet a toonie is so convenient.

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CoolCly | Posted 4/5/2012 7:38:48 AM | message detail | quote
Also seriously, you Americans don't use $1 coins?

We have $1 coins here, but they are so hard to find here. This post explains the huge problem with $1 coins:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/62429578/696808668

The best plan for the US to make a complete transition over to using $1 coins involves the following:

Over the course of a 10 year period, slowly reduce the production of $1 bills year after year. After 10 years, production of $1 bills should stop completely. During that 10 year period, slowly increase the production of $1 coins year after year. The goal is to get the US Mint to make at least 750 million $1 coins per year by the 10th year of my projected program.


The first year of the $1 presidential coin program had almost 1 billion coins made. The second year, the coin mintages were cut in half. Coin mintages would continue to drop as you go farther into the presidential coin series until each presidential coin had stabilized around 75 million coins. For reference, the George Washington coin had the highest mintage, about 340 million coins.

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