OmarsComin posted... Wasn't gonna post in this topic, but... With SFxT, you ARE getting what you paid for. They never falsely advertised the characters as being in the game already. You can't pay for something that wasn't advertised as being part of the product you're buying.
as a side note, they did falsely advertise co-op couch play for the 360 version
where it at
See now, this is a legitimate complaint.
Rad Link 5 posted... From: wg64Z | #050 I swear Octillery is getting cash under the table for every alternate color you buy for Chun-Li's tights. Didn't someone from Capcom respond to an email about Joyrock confirming that he actually does receive royalties for certain DLC purchases?
XFD What? I've trashed on Capcom plenty here, I don't know where you're getting this idiocy from lol.
janembaman posted...
Thread over bye Good thing it's nothing like that, and in fact is still pretty much like it was in 99. Big difference is if you're not on PC you can't very well do expansions. Not to mention you'd still be whining if they somehow DID offer an expansion to SFxT, because ALL of your complaints here would still apply.
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
Eh, I'm content continuing my capcom boycott and letting everyone else do their own thing. If people want to continue paying for games only to find a superior version coming out 8 months later, then all the power to them. I won't be supporting such a scummy company until they start changing things. MML3 getting canceled was when they crossed the line for me.
ff6man posted... Eh, I'm content continuing my capcom boycott and letting everyone else do their own thing. If people want to continue paying for games only to find a superior version coming out 8 months later, then all the power to them. I won't be supporting such a scummy company until they start changing things. MML3 getting canceled was when they crossed the line for me.
But MML was always bad.
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
From: red13n | #101 However, their strength compared to the other player characters were not toned down even a bit from their computer-controlled counterparts.
The structure of this sentence and lack of a source should be a red flag. I don't actually know the balance changes in CE, but like I said, they were made charge characters which makes a pretty significant difference in how they're played.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i54.tinypic.com/2sb25hu.gif
The structure of this sentence and lack of a source should be a red flag. I don't actually know the balance changes in CE, but like I said, they were made charge characters which makes a pretty significant difference in how they're played.
I'm taking their word for it on account of sagat being an unstoppable monster(And also I used to have access to SF2, CE, and Turbo).
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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.
Yeah the bosses in CE were not particularly amazing, and a big part of that was how limited their normals were. Being charge characters didn't help, but it wasn't a death sentence since Guile was pretty widely played in those days.
-- SuperNiceDog may be the Guru Champion... But SuperBowlGiants are the NFL Champions!
Did anyone honestly like that SF2 had a million barely changed incarnations?
Not to mention they were almost entirely arcade-bound, and no one bought the arcade machine. You just went in and played on the machine they had. For an arcade, a new set of stuff isn't bad for the consumer because they didn't literally pay for the initial game or any of the subsequent versions. The arcade owners probably either liked it because a new one would bring in more business (because your version's more updated than your competition's) or they disliked it because they'd have to buy entire new machines to be up to date on the same game and community.
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I have no idea who you are, but I thank you for arousing me. - Beruga Brawl FC: 3823-8243-5663
OctilIery posted... ff6man posted... Eh, I'm content continuing my capcom boycott and letting everyone else do their own thing. If people want to continue paying for games only to find a superior version coming out 8 months later, then all the power to them. I won't be supporting such a scummy company until they start changing things. MML3 getting canceled was when they crossed the line for me.
But MML was always bad.
You know,im a big fan of MM (hell,the only faq I ever submitted was for a Megaman game) But even I can agree that MML sucked and in all honesty I can't understand people that likes the series
....However,it was the most looking forward MM game ever,and IMO a new MML game is the game with the most potential (being a 3D game,and not following the tradtional 8 boss stages etc) So even for me (and I don't have and never will have a 3DS) it was a huge letdown
Did anyone honestly like that SF2 had a million barely changed incarnations?
they were changed enough that they split the playerbase. everyone liked Turbo, then no one liked SSF2, then some people liked ST and some didn't. a lot of dudes who were really good in the so cal scene just quit after Turbo because they thought the game was bad after that.
in any case all the changes and we ended up with ST which was a pretty sweet game, and not the original which is way slower and not nearly as much fun. so I guess so long as the end result is an improvement I don't mind.
The thing about arcade revisions is that, more often or not, they're actually done right and not in a way meant to brutally exploit arcade owners. At least in Japan. Occasionally you'll have a company like EXAMU pull some bull, but more often than not, the revisions seem to be pretty fairly priced and made with the intention of keeping the playerbase coming to the arcade.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i53.tinypic.com/2hpufbd.png
I'd consider UMvC3 pretty fairly priced. 12 new characters and a new mode. Of course, I never bought regular MvC3. Even my beloved Guilty Gear makes very minor revisions. GGXX->#Reload only added Robo Ky (and lost Clone Rky.) #Slash had more significant revisions and I think added Order Sol. Accent Core added ABA and significant changes like Force Breaks. Accent Core+ added modes and secret characters back into Accent Core. The thing is, none of these added more than one character. ...Which is actually why I'm hyped for GGXXX. We should get at least 4 new characters, if it ever gets made!
From: paperwarior | #118 GGXX->#Reload only added Robo Ky
Balance changes.
I am actually more willing to pay for a good balance changes than new characters because those are made with the intention of improving the game. Incessant balance changes gave us Super Turbo and Accent Core!
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr345/Rakaputra/Radlink.png
Well, yeah, I knew that, but they were fairly minor compared to any of the other entries' changes. Fortunately, we get balance changes for free, now. If companies want to sell us something they have to include new content as well.
Eh. Like I said, I'm much more willing to pay for balance changes than "new content." There are a few games where the "new content" is desperately needed, like BlazBlue back when it was sort of lacking playstyle variety compared to Guilty Gear, but most of the time I would rather they focus on improving the existing content.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i54.tinypic.com/5dryok.gif
I don't really play competitively. I only play against my friends and occasionally online. So I put more stock into new characters or moveset/mechanics changes. I know this makes me a terrible fan to some people, but I don't really give a ****. >.>
I'd love to see a new iteration of SF3. 3S is 3S and I think asking for an HDR-style balance change is a bad move at this point in the game's life. but I'd love for a fourth installment in the SF3 series. new content would be fine, but 3S is known for having a godlike top tier and it'd be cool to play SF3 mechanics with actual reasonable balance. I think the FG community would like it a lot too.
CvS2 is (IMO) mostly fine as it is and just a re-release and not a rebalance/new game would be good enough for me. I wouldn't complain about a new CvS though.
It doesn't make you a terrible fan, I've just never understood how people who don't "play competitively" don't get caught in this cycle: -Friend 1 discovers tactics that beat Friend 2. -Friend 2 tries different things until he or she finds counter-tactics to Friend 1's tactics. -Friend 1 tries different things until he or she finds counter-tactics to Friend 2's tactics. -Friend 2 tries different things etc etc and they both keep getting better and better.
It seems like the alternative to that is either both friends button mash or one friend just keeps beating the other friend with the same tactics, neither of which sounds fun.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i55.tinypic.com/2mcnjl.gif
Rad Link 5 posted... It doesn't make you a terrible fan, I've just never understood how people who don't "play competitively" don't get caught in this cycle: -Friend 1 discovers tactics that beat Friend 2. -Friend 2 tries different things until he or she finds counter-tactics to Friend 1's tactics. -Friend 1 tries different things until he or she finds counter-tactics to Friend 2's tactics. -Friend 2 tries different things etc etc and they both keep getting better and better.
It seems like the alternative to that is either both friends button mash or one friend just keeps beating the other friend with the same tactics, neither of which sounds fun.
They do to a degree, but the difference between competitive and casual play is friends will try to adapt what they enjoy playing to what their opponents play, rather than just change up what they play.
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
-Friend 1 discovers tactics that beat Friend 2. -Friend 2 tries different things until he or she finds counter-tactics to Friend 1's tactics. -Friend 1 tries different things until he or she finds counter-tactics to Friend 2's tactics. -Friend 2 tries different things etc etc and they both keep getting better and better.
yeah that describes my growth pattern in SSBM and 3S and I think it's gotta be the norm for people who don't have a FG scene around them. you gotta have a friend who likes the game as much as you do and you want to play together a lot but given that it's not a bad route for consistently getting better and finding enjoyment from the realization that you're steadily improving.
Rad Link 5 posted... From: OctilIery | #125 friends will try to adapt what they enjoy playing to what their opponents play, rather than just change up what they play. I don't follow.
Basically, at least for me, casual playing comes down to doing either two things;
We'll play randoms and get some crazy **** going on, or
We'll play teams we like, and attempt to adapt but accept losing rather than playing something we don't like as much.
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
It doesn't make you a terrible fan, I've just never understood how people who don't "play competitively" don't get caught in this cycle: -Friend 1 discovers tactics that beat Friend 2. -Friend 2 tries different things until he or she finds counter-tactics to Friend 1's tactics. -Friend 1 tries different things until he or she finds counter-tactics to Friend 2's tactics. -Friend 2 tries different things etc etc and they both keep getting better and better.
It seems like the alternative to that is either both friends button mash or one friend just keeps beating the other friend with the same tactics, neither of which sounds fun.
It actually does happen like that for me. I'm highly competitive at Guilty Gear (and SSB) with my friends. I guess there really isn't much of a difference except that I don't play online much or enter tournaments, nor am I really good enough at most fighting games to do so. And I can't seem to get my friends to try any new fighters so I end up only playing those at a fairly basic level.
Like Competitive Play Mentality: I'll try to adjust my playstyle to win. Casual Play Mentality: I'll try to adjust the game's rules to win.
I think Sirlin wrote a whole article on that before. Actually multiple articles.
From: OctilIery | #132 We'll play randoms and get some crazy **** going on
Well yeah, I can see that. I don't think most people do that for very long, though. That sort of thing gets old pretty fast to most people.
We'll play teams we like, and attempt to adapt but accept losing rather than playing something we don't like as much.
That's not necessarily a casual mentality. Tier-whoring isn't necessary to have a competitive mentality. If you're happy with your character and you keep trying to improve with that character, that's still a competitive mentality.
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://i54.tinypic.com/2ib126v.jpg
Well, yeah, I do have a competitive mentality in that case. But I also enjoy just fighting the computer and learning different characters, which is generally considered casual because it "makes you worse" as a topic on here said.
Here's my feeling on disc-locked content: Say you buy a book. You take it home and read it, and it's a pretty good book! You enjoy it greatly! Except for when you get to chapter 16, it's locked. You can turn past it and get to chapter 17 just fine, and you still get the gist of the plot. You can still read to the end of the book. Attached to the locked chapter 16 is a little card that you can send off to the publisher along with $5 to get a key to unlock the chapter.
People would absolutely flip their s*** over something like that. Because it's commonly understood that when you buy a book, you're buying the whole book. And the thing is, before this console generation (and to a lesser extent the gen before), the same thing was understood about video games. When you bought that Super Mario World cartridge, you were getting the complete experience, all 8 castles and everything. You didn't have to pay once for the game, then pay again for castle number 7 - it was all there.
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Besides, marijuana is far more harmful than steroids. - BlitzBomb I headbang to Bruckner.
I think theres a few unwritten rules around casual(With friends/etc) play.
Particularly I think if you have a zoning game good enough that your opponent cant do anything to get by it, at some point(Maybe after 2-3 rounds) you are obligated to drop it and let them actually play the game. No one likes being zoned and killed without a chance to really do anything.
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"First thing that crosses my mind: I didn't get any GameFAQs Karma yesterday." Math Murderer after getting his appendix removed.
Well, you can help them learn, or go easy on them or whatever, but in the end, the best outcome would be them getting good enough to compete with you. If your main is too good for them to even have fun, play randoms against their main until they get good enough to beat those. If you can develop a serious fighting game rivalry, it's awesome.
From: paperwarior | #136 Well, yeah, I do have a competitive mentality in that case. But I also enjoy just fighting the computer and learning different characters, which is generally considered casual because it "makes you worse" as a topic on here said.
Well it does make you worse, yeah, because the computers don't play anything like humans, so you're prone to getting into habits that won't work against humans. But it's not a big deal. Everyone goofs off sometimes.
From: red13n | #138 Particularly I think if you have a zoning game good enough that your opponent cant do anything to get by it, at some point(Maybe after 2-3 rounds) you are obligated to drop it and let them actually play the game. No one likes being zoned and killed without a chance to really do anything.
Good friends teach friends how to work around zoning games and other areas where their friend seems helpless!
-- Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/8436/ldt2r.gif
red13n posted... I think theres a few unwritten rules around casual(With friends/etc) play.
Particularly I think if you have a zoning game good enough that your opponent cant do anything to get by it, at some point(Maybe after 2-3 rounds) you are obligated to drop it and let them actually play the game. No one likes being zoned and killed without a chance to really do anything.
Pretty much this.
That's why I started doing randoms, I was better than all my friends <.<;
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
Here's my feeling on disc-locked content: Say you buy a book. You take it home and read it, and it's a pretty good book! You enjoy it greatly! Except for when you get to chapter 16, it's locked. You can turn past it and get to chapter 17 just fine, and you still get the gist of the plot. You can still read to the end of the book. Attached to the locked chapter 16 is a little card that you can send off to the publisher along with $5 to get a key to unlock the chapter.
you just described serialized fiction. telltale follow this business model, capcom doesn't. sfxt is a complete game. there is extra content locked on the disc, yes, and this extra content may or may not have had extra resources allocated to creating which would later be recouped through the sale of dlc, but it is still a complete game. i don't think the two situations are analogous.
i also don't know how i feel about on-disc dlc. i get why it exists, and it maybe leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but i don't think this is as black-and-white as the internet is making it out to be. but hey, that's life - you're either with me, or you're wrong.
first category is competitive friends. they'll play a game with me and if we're not equal in skill they'll keep playing and catch up, maybe with some suggestions here and there.
second category is non-competitive friends, and I haven't had much success getting them into fighting games. they'll mostly just push buttons and complain about how fireballs are cheap and I'm an ass. so I play co-op games with them instead!
i also don't know how i feel about on-disc dlc. i get why it exists, and it maybe leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but i don't think this is as black-and-white as the internet is making it out to be. but hey, that's life - you're either with me, or you're wrong.
well it's more pressing here because the dlc is key content. I don't think there was nearly this much of a fuss when costumes were DLC in SF4. but here, where actual characters are locked away and they were already finished when the game shipped? it upsets a lot of people who are into the genre. this is the fanbase who gets angry about having to grind single player mode for characters, most of them certainly aren't pleased about having to pay for them.
I think Capcom could take some cues from Blizzard on how to set up a competitive game well and keep the fanbase happy. Even Blizzard has been kind of sketchy with battle.net and no LAN but they've done the rest a lot smarter.
The worse thing to me about on-disc DLC is not just charging for it, but holding it back in some cases for months before letting players buy it. Especially when it's something that's 100% completed, like the UMvC3 alternate costumes.
-- SuperNiceDog may be the Guru Champion... But SuperBowlGiants are the NFL Champions!
well it's more pressing here because the dlc is key content.
yeah, totally. which is why it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. before I went onto youtube to see if the characters were complete, I just assumed it was dummy code in place of complete content that we would download later. that would be a quick way to get around the compatibility issues WB Games had with MK last year, and it would ensure a smooth, stable online experience for all sfxt players in the fall. and then i saw a video of sakura pulling off combos and i thought 'ugh. really?'
The way I see it, anything like picture #3 is bad. And it's equally bad whether the data happens to be located on or off the disc. Incomplete games are the problem, and they're no less of a problem if you have to go through the procedure of downloading the extra characters (or whatever).
-- You put your RESOLVE HAT back on, which conveniently is the same hat as your NORMAL HAT. {Drakeryn}
Yeah, it's just that on-disc means without a doubt you know it's 100% incomplete by design.
It's still garbage that they make so much DLC and other stuff that makes the game itself pointless and devalued instantly. See MvC3 vs UMvC3 and essentially everything capcom does.
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I have no idea who you are, but I thank you for arousing me. - Beruga Brawl FC: 3823-8243-5663
My biggest complaint with it is simply how many characters they put up as DLC. Twelve of them? Really? That's a full 20% of the game's roster, on the disc, that you can't play as. Six characters might have been fine. But you can't argue that it's "a complete game" when there's that many characters missing.
For example, Soul Calibur V has an on-disc DLC character, Dampierre. But he's just one gimmicky character with no place in the plot. The game doesn't feel any less complete for not having him. I'm not even defending SCV's DLC policies here, the way they dealt with Dampierre was honestly pretty dumb, but at least it wasn't literally sealing away a full fifth of the game's content.
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xfd dude, it's just a popularity contest on the internets. -Vlado
