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Board 8 > So what's all this I hear about the new Mass Effect book being a disaster?

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tereziWright
02/03/12 11:03:00 AM
#51:


From: foolm0ron | #050
Clearly this won't affect it if it's so far gone from the existing canon. Bioware has the real writers of the story, and they can ignore the book if they want.


You should have kept reading the topic!

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Jeff Zero
02/03/12 11:04:00 AM
#52:


BlackMageJawa posted...
And The Illusive Man and Aria are two ME2-introduced characters that were originally introduced in a book and a comic respectively, if you want to get uber-technical about things.

Since the first novel was released long before the game, Saren and David Anderson were both introduced in books as well. Possibly a few other people who showed up in Revelation and then the games, but I can't recall anyone specific off the top of my head.


Oh yeah, duh, heh.

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tcaz2
02/03/12 11:05:00 AM
#53:


Most people actually like the Halo books a good bit.

And the first 3 Mass Effect books were pretty good too. Sad to hear this one was terrible.

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HanOfTheNekos
02/03/12 11:09:00 AM
#54:


I skimmed that list, and this book looks terrible.

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Jeff Zero
02/03/12 11:10:00 AM
#55:


HanOfTheNekos posted...
I skimmed that list, and this book looks terrible.

:)

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Anagram
02/03/12 11:27:00 AM
#56:


Just read the list and the topic (good work Jeff), and I'm glad it's getting retconned, though I don't read ME bokks.

It can't be worse than the Baldur's Gate novelization, though.

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Jeff Zero
02/03/12 12:12:00 PM
#57:


Anagram posted...
Just read the list and the topic (good work Jeff), and I'm glad it's getting retconned, though I don't read ME bokks.

It can't be worse than the Baldur's Gate novelization, though.

I've heard the horror stories on that one.

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muddersmilk
02/03/12 12:14:00 PM
#58:


I was going to comment that JeffZero worked on that list, but I see he is already here.

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02/03/12 12:18:00 PM
#59:


Jeff Zero posted...
I've heard the horror stories on that one.

"Abdel became a paralyzed mass of white hot indignation, and he screamed loud enough to scare birds from trees miles away. A child in Candlekeep began to cry, and his parents didn't know why. A whale swimming past the rocky edges of the Sword Coast took note of the sound and formed a rumbling that gave the Sahuagin communities pause. A god, then another glanced down, but it was by sheer force of will Abdel made himself stand."

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 12:20:00 PM
#60:


Color me confused, but why do people care about this?

I always operated under the idea that the game canon trumps any and all contradictions. In all cases. For example, there's a scene in AC:R where a guy gets controlled be a Piece of Eden. In the game, he just slits his own throat. In the book, his mouth opens up wide enough to shove his own arm down his throat and scramble his internal organs. I would give the canon answer to the former.

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Anagram
02/03/12 12:21:00 PM
#61:


TheRock1525 posted...
Color me confused, but why do people care about this?

I always operated under the idea that the game canon trumps any and all contradictions. In all cases. For example, there's a scene in AC:R where a guy gets controlled be a Piece of Eden. In the game, he just slits his own throat. In the book, his mouth opens up wide enough to shove his own arm down his throat and scramble his internal organs. I would give the canon answer to the former.

Bioware put a lot of effort into making people care about the universe of ME, and then they release a book that is at least ostensibly canon that contradicts a lot of it. It's similar to why people were annoyed about WoW retconning so much of the established lore of the previous Warcraft games.

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 12:27:00 PM
#62:


It's similar to why people were annoyed about WoW retconning so much of the established lore of the previous Warcraft games.

People are over-sensitive morons?

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LeonhartFour
02/03/12 12:34:00 PM
#63:


From: TheRock1525 | #060
Color me confused, but why do people care about this?

I always operated under the idea that the game canon trumps any and all contradictions. In all cases. For example, there's a scene in AC:R where a guy gets controlled be a Piece of Eden. In the game, he just slits his own throat. In the book, his mouth opens up wide enough to shove his own arm down his throat and scramble his internal organs. I would give the canon answer to the former.


The difference is that the book doesn't address in-game events. It deals with stuff that isn't covered in the books but has an effect on the games.

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 12:41:00 PM
#64:


The difference is that the book doesn't address in-game events. It deals with stuff that isn't covered in the books but has an effect on the games.

It only has an effect on the games if you care about the books.

Thankfully I couldn't give a crap less.

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LeonhartFour
02/03/12 12:43:00 PM
#65:


From: TheRock1525 | #064
It only has an effect on the games if you care about the books.

Thankfully I couldn't give a crap less.


So if you don't care, no one else should care, I guess.

It shouldn't be THAT hard to understand why a book containing things that directly contradict established canon would bother people, especially when some of the contradictions are just ridiculous and should never happen.

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Djungelurban
02/03/12 12:44:00 PM
#66:


Video game books LOL...

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 1:08:00 PM
#67:


So if you don't care, no one else should care, I guess.

Now you're getting it.

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 1:08:00 PM
#68:


Djungelurban posted...
Video game books LOL...

also this

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Dauntless Hunter
02/03/12 1:12:00 PM
#69:


From: LeonhartFour | #065
So if you don't care, no one else should care, I guess.


Rock is one of the main "anyone whose experiences vary from mine is wrong" users.

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 1:14:00 PM
#70:


Dauntless Hunter posted...
From: LeonhartFour | #065
So if you don't care, no one else should care, I guess.
Rock is one of the main "anyone whose experiences vary from mine is wrong" users.

Actually, if you've ever listened to my podcast with RPGLord/Whiskey_Nick, that couldn't be further from the truth.

I rarely say someone's opinion is wrong, Stuff like this just seems like an over-reaction to something that shouldn't really be significant to enjoyment of a game series.

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LeonhartFour
02/03/12 1:20:00 PM
#71:


From: TheRock1525 | #070
Stuff like this just seems like an over-reaction to something that shouldn't really be significant to enjoyment of a game series.


"I don't care, so anyone who does care is just overreacting."

Again, it's not hard to see why people who care about Mass Effect would care about a book that directly contradicts previously established canon could actually be considered "canon."

I've never read the books and probably never will, but it's not hard to understand why bad books bother people.

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Dauntless Hunter
02/03/12 1:22:00 PM
#72:


From: TheRock1525 | #070
Actually, if you've ever listened to my podcast with RPGLord/Whiskey_Nick, that couldn't be further from the truth.

I rarely say someone's opinion is wrong, Stuff like this just seems like an over-reaction to something that shouldn't really be significant to enjoyment of a game series.


Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else. Or you just post like that without really meaning it. I don't listen to your podcast.

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the icon ownz all
02/03/12 1:23:00 PM
#73:


rock is a dick it's true


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TheRock1525
02/03/12 1:27:00 PM
#74:


There's a difference between "care" and "over-reaction." People can care. I really don't think anything of people going "OK, this is f***ing stupid."

People were signing a petition to make the book non-canon and lobbying directly to BioWare about this. You don't see how someone would see this as an over-reaction by the fanbase to something like this? Something that doesn't have a direct impact on the key part of the series: the games?

Why weren't they fighting harder when they were so upset about the changes to Dragon Age II during development? Why didn't they insist on the PC version containing mechanics similar to the previous PC version? Why put so much effort into rendering a book non-canon but not protecting the actual video game you're supposed to care about?

That's why I perceive it as an over-reaction.

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 1:28:00 PM
#75:


the icon ownz all posted...
rock is a dick it's true


Yeah, this is true. But there's plenty of series that I don't like (MGS, Legend of Zelda) that I will still give their props for.

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Gatarix
02/03/12 1:30:00 PM
#76:


Stuff like this just seems like an over-reaction to something that shouldn't really be significant to enjoyment of a game series.

If you enjoy the plot of something, you're probably going to be annoyed if that plot gets screwed up, regardless of the specific medium. Like, if you enjoy a book series and, later, a movie is produced that totally screws up the characters and plot. Or if you enjoy a movie and later they produce a TV mini-series that screws things up. I don't see why it's any different when a video game is involved.


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tereziWright
02/03/12 1:32:00 PM
#77:


"Why care that Episodes 1-3 suck when you could just watch Episodes 4-6?"

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LeonhartFour
02/03/12 1:33:00 PM
#78:


From: TheRock1525 | #074
People were signing a petition to make the book non-canon and lobbying directly to BioWare about this. You don't see how someone would see this as an over-reaction by the fanbase to something like this? Something that doesn't have a direct impact on the key part of the series: the games?


How much effort does it take to sign a petition?

But if your problem is WHY DIDN'T THEY CARE MORE ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE I CARE ABOUT INSTEAD OF SOMETHING I DON'T, then that's something else entirely.

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 1:35:00 PM
#79:


tereziWright posted...
"Why care that Episodes 1-3 suck when you could just watch Episodes 4-6?"

Huge, huge, huge, HUGE difference.

For one thing, the Star Wars movies ARE the main attraction. This comparison would only work if Mass Effect 1 was an awesome game and Mass Effect 2 sucked.

Secondly, people already operate this way, anyway. How many times I've read people declare the first three movies non-canon or say "no one should watch the first three movies."

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 1:41:00 PM
#80:


LeonhartFour posted...
From: TheRock1525 | #074
People were signing a petition to make the book non-canon and lobbying directly to BioWare about this. You don't see how someone would see this as an over-reaction by the fanbase to something like this? Something that doesn't have a direct impact on the key part of the series: the games?
How much effort does it take to sign a petition?

But if your problem is WHY DIDN'T THEY CARE MORE ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE I CARE ABOUT INSTEAD OF SOMETHING I DON'T, then that's something else entirely.

About the same amount of effort to sign a petition for Dragon Age II, or even not buy the game (which takes literally no effort). And it's not an issue of what I care about, because I LIKED Dragon Age II more than Dragon Age: Origins. But listening to them b**** and moan about the game and call it worse than Big Rigs, and doing literally nothing about it, it's funny to watch them get up in arms over a book and actually lobby BioWare directly to have it stricken from the canon.

And my point is that BioWare fans are all over the place when it comes to priorities when it comes to their series.

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LeonhartFour
02/03/12 1:43:00 PM
#81:


From: TheRock1525 | #080
And my point is that BioWare fans are all over the place when it comes to priorities when it comes to their series.


People care a lot more about Mass Effect than Dragon Age, I would wager, yeah.

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tereziWright
02/03/12 1:46:00 PM
#82:


ME IS a ridiculously better series, yeah. DA doesn't even come close.

Seems like a good reason for more people to care.

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 1:48:00 PM
#83:


LeonhartFour posted...
From: TheRock1525 | #080
And my point is that BioWare fans are all over the place when it comes to priorities when it comes to their series.
People care a lot more about Mass Effect than Dragon Age, I would wager, yeah.

Here's the thing: Dragon Age: Origins outsold Mass Effect 2.

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LeonhartFour
02/03/12 1:49:00 PM
#84:


From: TheRock1525 | #083
Here's the thing: Dragon Age: Origins outsold Mass Effect 2.


Doesn't mean people like it more.

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tereziWright
02/03/12 1:50:00 PM
#85:


From: TheRock1525 | #083
LeonhartFour posted...
From: TheRock1525 | #080
And my point is that BioWare fans are all over the place when it comes to priorities when it comes to their series.
People care a lot more about Mass Effect than Dragon Age, I would wager, yeah.

Here's the thing: Dragon Age: Origins outsold Mass Effect 2.


Did you really just make this post?

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 1:50:00 PM
#86:


LeonhartFour posted...
From: TheRock1525 | #083
Here's the thing: Dragon Age: Origins outsold Mass Effect 2.
Doesn't mean people like it more.

I'd be with, except there's a large portion of the BioWare fanbase that prefers ME1 to ME2, and a lot of them prefer DA:O to both.

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Dauntless Hunter
02/03/12 1:51:00 PM
#87:


Sales don't quantify how much people care about it though. Everyone cares about some of the games they buy more than others, but they still just bought 1 copy of it.

Like Rock Band outsold Phoenix Wright but I don't think you could argue that people who like Rock Band care more about Rock Band than people who like Phoenix Wright care about Phoenix Wright.

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tereziWright
02/03/12 1:53:00 PM
#88:


large portion =/= vocal minority.

The Real Truth isn't a large portion.

ME2 is overwhelmingly preferred.

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LeonhartFour
02/03/12 1:53:00 PM
#89:


From: TheRock1525 | #087
I'd be with, except there's a large portion of the BioWare fanbase that prefers ME1 to ME2, and a lot of them prefer DA:O to both.


Not sure what that has to do with this.

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 1:55:00 PM
#90:


tereziWright posted...
large portion =/= vocal minority.

The Real Truth isn't a large portion.

ME2 is overwhelmingly preferred.

Not talking among us.

Talking about the BioWare fans. When I was at PAX, I ran into nothing but people who said ME2 was a disappointment. All BioWare fans.

The average person thinks ME2 is far superior to ME1.

The average BioWare fan doesn't.

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Gatarix
02/03/12 1:58:00 PM
#91:


I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. Are you saying that BioWare fans don't like ME, so they shouldn't care about the canon?


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tereziWright
02/03/12 1:58:00 PM
#92:


I think he's just being stubborn.

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 2:01:00 PM
#93:


I'm just saying, 90% of my interactions with BioWare fans is this way, because they got so friggin' pissy about the removal of "RPG elements" and said ME2 was just a big dumb shooter.

Maybe I'm just unlucky like, but I spent most of my time at PAX defending ME2 rather than actively talking about how excited I was about ME3. And every time I've been on the BioWare forums, the users there have been largely awful.

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TheRock1525
02/03/12 2:02:00 PM
#94:


Gatarix posted...
I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. Are you saying that BioWare fans don't like ME, so they shouldn't care about the canon?


At this point, I don't know where we've gotten so far off track, so I'm just going to kindly exit this topic and let you go on your merry way.

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LeonhartFour
02/03/12 2:02:00 PM
#95:


There are stupid fans everywhere.

Doesn't really have any impact on what they care about or why they should care.

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tereziWright
02/03/12 2:02:00 PM
#96:


Those weren't Bioware fans, they where morons.

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