If Smurf's lists were really trash, they wouldn't draw this much viewership and conversation. Smurf takes his sweet ass time (he probably won't finish this), and his lists are obviously not wanting for bias and the occasional troll-job, but his writing and effort are actually quite good.
As for those claims of bias being levied against him... I gotta wonder how anyone can possibly avoid it in a list like this. Unless you've been posting here, uninterrupted, since 2002 and have a finger on the pulse of every social circle in B8 history, then bias is inevitable, whether you try to cull it or not. A top 50 list from Leonhart would likely be far more Stats Topic-centric than one made by Mer, which would be more chat-centric. I'd make an entire Top 50 without once mentioning the word "mafia" because I'm clueless about it. Can't really avoid bias.
-- Yoblazer: http://oi52.tinypic.com/ad21i1.jpg Watch and you'll see... SuperNiceDog own me... in the Guru!
you can defend Smurf and this list all you want, the fact of the matter is the man treats every complaint as if it were some grave mistake on the part of the person making it and he himself can do no wrong. look at his responses to any complaint in any list that he has made over the last 5 years (obviously not literally, unless you somehow have them archived. although you can go back and look through this topic and maybe the one that came before it if it is still around).
this isn't an issue of 'don't try to cater to all of the whiners' it's a matter of blatantly ignoring any instance where someone makes a valid point against him, or responding to a sentiment that could be expressed by MULTIPLE people (are they all wrong?) as if those people have no idea what they are talking about. as for why his lists draw so much viewership it's because he's a massive attention whore who knows exactly how to manipulate people into getting what he wants. popularity does not denote quality (other than maybe the quality of 'how popular is this thing'), and that's an argument no one should ever have to make. it's just basic common sense.
also the whole 'if you don't like the list, make your own' defense is paper thin, bordering on outright stupid. it assumes that I give a tenth of a **** who the top 50 most influential users in board 8 history are, which I don't, and that I'd want to share my thoughts on the matter with the entire board to garner as much attention as possible from them, which I don't. the whole idea behind this list is a joke, and I wouldn't be caught dead putting forth the amount of effort it would take to even attempt something like this because it's monumentally stupid to begin with.
as for the 30+ remark, Vlado aren't you still older than Ed Bellis and you still haven't learned to cope with the fact that when someone says something you don't want to hear that doesn't make it wrong
Let's put it this way... For you, I'll even use a very easy example:
Just because a huge part of gamers laughably consider Zelda: Ocarina of Time to be the best game ever created, does that mean I should actually reconsider my own view on games and what the best ones are?
--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES! Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html
From: Vlado | #356 Let's put it this way... For you, I'll even use a very easy example:
Just because a huge part of gamers laughably consider Zelda: Ocarina of Time to be the best game ever created, does that mean I should actually reconsider my own view on games and what the best ones are?
If it will shut you up, then yes.
--
Congrats to SuperNiceDog for winning the Guru for a Super Bad Contest!
uh smurf is the one who has been and will always continue to ignore any legitimate criticism that is directed his way, that is why all of his lists have always been and will always continue to be trash
Ignoring a couple of WTF-choices like omegaman, I'm very lenient on a list like this, because, like yo said, there's always going to be bias and there simply isn't a superuser on the board who's been here since '02 and has extensive knowledge of all the subgroups that have ever been here. From what I've seen the "legitimate criticism" is basically a bunch of users saying "this isn't how I would've done this list," and their opinions aren't more valid than Smurf's. Just because half the board thinks HM should be in the top 5 doesn't mean they're more objectively right than Smurf is.
UltimaterializerX posted... Is Vlado seriously trying to bash someone's age when he didn't lose his virginity until he was 28 years old?
Again with the false claims? I expect much more from you, Ulti. Smurf brought age into the equation in the first place - in a very hilarious fashion at that. :)
--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES! Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html
From: Vlado | #356 Let's put it this way... For you, I'll even use a very easy example:
Just because a huge part of gamers laughably consider Zelda: Ocarina of Time to be the best game ever created, does that mean I should actually reconsider my own view on games and what the best ones are?
Point completely missed.
Nobody's telling Smurf to redo the list, reconsider his rankings, whatever. They're simply expressing that they think his personal rankings are very different from how they'd do their own list.
You know, the things you do when somebody disagrees with you, only with less 'xd that's what you really believe.'
EDIT: Well, except most people wouldn't want to do their own list. Not that they'd have to in order to criticize a list. Not sure when that became a necessary criterion for disagreeing with someone.
--
"Stay with me until the end. Please." "Not until the end. Always."
Meh. Maybe it's just me, but I like smurf's lists. They give me a chance to look back and reminisce about the folks who've moved on. I think that if you're seriously considering a smurf list about epop to be worth arguing over, you might want to take a step back.
In other news, I want more rankings!
-- Fett is ****ing crafty. Don't underestimate him.- Blade The Fettbox - http://fettbox.byethost8.com/
see, ed bellis knows how to argue with vlado. Vlado has literally never been intelligent enough to comprehend other peoples' arguments, hence why most of his responses have nothing to do with whatever was said, so why bother? Just do a quick condescending remark and get on with your day imo.
^5 ed
--
omg did u red text from last night dats so me LMAO : ) im not a slut i jus liek 2 haev fun LOL : )
ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis ed bellis
LeonhartFour posted... Nobody's telling Smurf to redo the list, reconsider his rankings, whatever. They're simply expressing that they think his personal rankings are very different from how they'd do their own list.
So why don't they freaking do it! They can even post it here, at least like their Top 10 without write-ups. That doesn't take that much of an effort.
Ed Bellis posted... Vlado this is like the first time I've read a post by you in years. I see you haven't changed a bit. It's kind of refreshing.
Anyway you are absolutely right.
True, true.
Icehawk posted... see, ed bellis knows how to argue with vlado. Vlado has literally never been intelligent enough to comprehend other peoples' arguments, hence why most of his responses have nothing to do with whatever was said, so why bother? Just do a quick condescending remark and get on with your day imo.
^5 ed
See, you still don't have a clue... That's almost depressing. Being condescending towards me is nothing a sign that you are far below my level. Not that we didn't know that, of course. I do have excellent conversations with people who would make intelligent comments and criticisms. "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, Smurf's list sucks" is not very intelligent.
--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES! Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html
Good, then you can delete that post and most posts you've made in this topic.
But again, whether the complaint is "valid" or not is completely irrelevant. People are free to say what they want regardless of whether Smurf agrees with it, you agree with it, or whoever.
See, you still don't have a clue... That's almost depressing. Being condescending towards me is nothing but a sign that you are far below my level. Not that we didn't know that, of course. I do have excellent conversations with people who would make intelligent comments and criticisms. "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, Smurf's list sucks" is not very intelligent.
Dude, this is such a dumb comment. This reminds me of your views on Tifa. You really think shes a great character, but in reality, you are blinded by big breasts.
--
omg did u red text from last night dats so me LMAO : ) im not a slut i jus liek 2 haev fun LOL : )
I suppose I can sum it up with this: Telling people not to post things that you disagree with is silly and childish.
Doesn't really matter if the complaint itself is silly and childish. If someone doesn't like it, then they're free to say so. To try to say that someone needs to make a "valid" complaint or make their own list to be qualified to disagree with your opinions is arrogant.
I've made several lists on this board over the years, and my tastes are pretty unorthodox for what this board normally goes for. I've had many people disagree with my lists, many of those disagreements coming with no explanation or little substantive explanation. I don't really mind it at all. In fact, I enjoy the debate and the disagreement quite a bit. It'd be pretty boring if everyone just went 'oh ya great pick that is exactly what I would have done' for everything I posted.
--
"But you have been given freedom. Freedom to be...outside." "I am lightning...the rain transformed."
From: Vlado | #388 But when you make yourself look dumb AND Smurf owns you, AND you proceed as if nothing happened, I am more than entitled to point it out. :)
LeonhartFour posted... I suppose I can sum it up with this: Telling people not to post things that you disagree with is silly and childish.
Doesn't really matter if the complaint itself is silly and childish. If someone doesn't like it, then they're free to say so. To try to say that someone needs to make a "valid" complaint or make their own list to be qualified to disagree with your opinions is arrogant.
I've made several lists on this board over the years, and my tastes are pretty unorthodox for what this board normally goes for. I've had many people disagree with my lists, many of those disagreements coming with no explanation or little substantive explanation. I don't really mind it at all. In fact, I enjoy the debate and the disagreement quite a bit. It'd be pretty boring if everyone just went 'oh ya great pick that is exactly what I would have done' for everything I posted.
That's cool and all, but Bellis' comment that started the whole debate was completely hostile. That was the problem. Nothing would have started if he had said "Well, I disagree with your choices, you could have done better" or something like that. He had to be an ass to Smurf, and then his little buddy came to add some more bullying and didn't withdraw even after Smurf flattened them with a one-liner. That's absolutely pathetic.
--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES! Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html
Right. Weird how you're the only one who actually sees it that way, but whatever.
(Ed's comment didn't "start" the whole debate anyway. It was more of a response to Smurf's initial whining about people not liking his list and being aghast and appalled at the idea to begin with)
Anyway, I'm done talking to a wall. Gonna go play some FFVIII and tell people to talk to a wall instead.
See? I was trying to explain things in a completely polite manner to you, and then I'm compared to a wall. How can I get anything done with you when you're so prejudiced against me?
th3l3fty posted... I have no recollection of Smurf flattening anyone
Post #348.
--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES! Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html