Board 8 > -> Kleenex's Top 10 Games of 2011 [list] <-

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah, that might have been it. It also seemed slow and 'bite-sized,' but that could just have been one of the first levels giving me that impression. Probably a big improvement over NSMB DS, in any case!

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

Bite-sized definitely fits, you can easily play a couple quick levels and then put the game down feeling satisfied. It's not really slow though. Some of the levels can be, but it moves along a pretty good pace. It's not as fast as a Mario 3 or Mario World, but not as slow as a Galaxy. And the physics are a lot better than in NSMB, so there's that!

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

Good news. I was wondering how the physics were in this game, since Nintendo has a problem getting them right in their portable versions for some reason.

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

#7 - L.A. Noire (360/PS3/PC)
http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/988983-la-noire

The biggest game of the year that no one remembers. L.A. Noire was kinda huge for about a week and then everyone forgot it existed. This is most likely due to the fact that despite being released to high critical praise, a lot of people seemed to have mixed reactions towards the game. There are certainly a lot of things to dislike about L.A. Noire. The main character is a dick. The gunplay is not so good. The investigation sequences can be very trial and error. Driving around can be very tedious (though this is remedied by an auto-pilot feature). The main character is really a dick. And yet despite all these things, I often found myself captivated by this game.

L.A. Noire does a great job of putting together the backdrop and atmosphere of a late-40s Los Angeles. The story is subdued, but it’s well crafted and interesting. Likewise, as much of a huge, giant dick Cole can be, the same can be said of the majority of the characters. The well crafted and interesting part. Not the being a dick part. Though I guess that can be true for a lot of them too.

The gameplay is kind of bizzare - it’s some sort of weird lovechild of Phoenix Wright and Grand Theft Auto, though when it comes down to it, L.A. Noire is much closer to the former than the later. City traversal is minimal at best, and the biggest part of the game is hunting down clues at crime scenes and grilling witnesses, telling them that they are awful, terrible people. And maybe getting a confession out of them. Not every case is a winner, and the game might feel repetitive at times because rarely is there any deviation from the formula between cases. That never bothered me much though. L.A. Noire’s not going to be a game for everyone, but it’s one of those things I think everyone should at least try, because it’s definitely going to resonate a lot with some people.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

keepin' things rolling

#6 - Dynasty Warriors 7 (360/PS3)
http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/606311-dynasty-warriors-7

Before this, I hadn’t played a Dynasty Warriors game since 4. I always thought they were pretty fun, but not something I cared to buy every iteration of, so I skipped 5, and then I got into the next-gen console cycle late so I missed 6. ZFS then coaxed me into getting 7 and here we are. Dynasty Warriors games are always mindless, but in a good way. There’s always something satisfying about mowing down hundreds and hundreds of dudes with minimal effort. Because I had been away from the series for so long, the improvements with 7 seemed pretty massive to me. For one thing, everything looks a lot nicer. There’s no more random fog obscuring everything and the animations are a lot more fluid. There are also a lot more characters to choose from, as if the series needed anymore.

Another aspect of the game I really enjoyed was the story mode. I’ve always been fascinated by the RotTK story, and Dynasty Warriors 7 does a much better job of fleshing that out that any other previous game in the series. There’s a lot of cool cutscenes, and you get a good variety of characters to play as, even if they don’t all quite match up to the time periods they’re supposed to be alive. Conquest mode, on the other hand, is pretty hit or miss. There’s some cool levels in there, but I really do miss Free mode. There’s also a co-op mode I tried with Dante for like two levels and it really sucks. Very laggy and just kinda ‘whatever’. Oh well, can’t win ‘em all.

I don’t know that I’m going to continue buying into Dynasty Warriors games from here, it’s not the kind of game I have a desire to play constantly, but it was nice to come back to the series after a while and see how it had evolved. The core gameplay is still the game - and that’s good - but the technical improvements make it a more enjoyable experience.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

ok now that they've tackled the film noire genre time for Rockstar to deal with Agent.

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Vote for this guy in every contest, our Guru champion: SuperNiceDog

DW7 good stuff. Best in the series.

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

Bumpo

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

From: The Mana Sword | Posted: 12/23/2011 7:07:31 PM | #055
Before this, I hadn’t played a Dynasty Warriors game since 4.

I stopped playing after 4 myself, big surprise when I decided to buy DW7!

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I do because I can.....and because I'm bored.

I really, really liked DW7. The story was fanastically implemented compared to previous games and it was a blast to play. Makes me kind of sad I can't really find a place for it in my top 10; more of a testament to the strength of 2011 than anything, though.

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You saved science, SuperNiceDog!
Call me numbers.

I don't think the main character being a dick is necessarily a bad thing about LA Noire. In fact, on best new character of the year, Cole has being doing pretty decently already in my games committee thing. It kind of makes him more interesting as you uncover who he really is.

Also man, seeing a lot of DW7 love this year. I'm gonna have to get it sometime next year. I also haven't played one since 4, I imagine that helps a lot in keeping the game fresh. I have no idea how some people play like every iteration of it.

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omg did u red text from last night dats so me LMAO : )
im not a slut i jus liek 2 haev fun LOL : )

Oh I'm fine with Cole's character, I did like him a good bit. I just understand that his characterization can be off-putting to some people.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

The Mana Sword posted...
Worst Game of the Year 2011 - Rise of the Immortals (PC)
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/622496-rise-of-immortals

holy crap

For reals

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For your SuperNiceDog.
At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza

it wouldn't even patch for me it was so bad

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boring and mundane signature congratulating SuperNiceDog
Now with more bold! Less Italics due to bold

Rise of the never play this game ever.

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Vote for this guy in every contest, our Guru champion: SuperNiceDog

Looks like this won't actually get done before Christmas, so I'm gonna try to get 5 and 4 done today then finish off the top 3 on Monday.

#5 - Dragon Age II (360/PS3/PC)
http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/988966-dragon-age-ii

Dragon Age II gets a lot of flak that I don’t think it quite deserves. Maybe it’s because I was never overly obsessive about the original, I really don’t know what it is. That’s not to say that it doesn’t have problems. The game definitely does feel like a bit of a lazy effort on BioWare’s part. The dungeons are just copy+paste jobs with different corridors blocked off and the areas you end up exploring are fairly limited. Story-wise Dragon Age II doesn’t hit the same highs are the originals, and certainly isn’t as sweeping in scale. Overall, yes, the original Dragon Age was a better game. I don’t think necessarily makes the sequel bad, though.

Dragon Age II is a game I just plain had fun playing. It’s hard for me to name particular aspects of the game I really liked. I found the combat pretty enjoyable regardless of how goofy and over the top it could sometimes be. The characters were fun for the most part and the was a nice amount of content that never felt too overwhelming. Dragon Age II doesn’t do anything spectacularly, but it does everything well enough to make it a fun experience. That’s about all I got, really. Don’t worry though, I have a lot to say about the next game on the list.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

why do people still play dynasty warriors

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Genesis does what Nintendon't
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7nsBoqJ6s8

Also man, seeing a lot of DW7 love this year. I'm gonna have to get it sometime next year. I also haven't played one since 4, I imagine that helps a lot in keeping the game fresh. I have no idea how some people play like every iteration of it.

There's usually a few years in between each numbered sequel, so it's not a big deal. It isn't a yearly franchise or anything.

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

it's a good stress reliever

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

because they're fun

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

I tried the demo of Dragon Age II back in March. Don't think that series is for me!

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

Probably not! Certainly not something I'd recommend to you.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

DA2 was pretty fun.

the flaws with it are so stupid, mostly the repetition, like why did they think it was OK to take such crazy shortcuts with level design and such?

but it still had some great characters, the usual BIOWARE STUFFZ that I like, and fun combat.

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omg did u red text from last night dats so me LMAO : )
im not a slut i jus liek 2 haev fun LOL : )

Yeah, the level design stuff is definitely a big problem. I'd actually call it offensive at how blatantly lazy it is.

Rest of the game is fine, though!

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

i was literally more offended by that level design than I was by this one time I was called a cracka

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omg did u red text from last night dats so me LMAO : )
im not a slut i jus liek 2 haev fun LOL : )

xenobleb

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It's iubaris, not Lubaris.

stand back

#4 - The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (Wii)
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/960633-the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword

Oh hey, a Zelda game came out this year. Maybe you heard about it.

Skyward Sword is a strange beast. There are a lot of things I don’t like it about it. There are a lot of good things to say about it. Overall, it excels at doing what I like about Zelda games the best, which is why it’s so high. I’ve also grown to accept some of the misgivings I have towards the game as I’ve had time to look back and reflect upon it - I was actually pretty down on the game immediately following its completion.

Let’s start by tackling the big elephant in the room: motion controls. I have mixed feelings about how Skyward Sword handles them. On one hand, I think the combat itself is implemented mostly well. The biggest hurdle you have to get over is realizing that despite what Nintendo might have tried to sell you, this isn’t true 1-to-1 motion control. You have to make movements in certain directions to get Link to perform predetermined slashing moves. Once you realize this and learn that the game wants you to be more patient, making broad, calculated slashing motions, it begins to click a lot better. That’s not to say it’s perfect by any means, there will still be time when the expected movement doesn’t register and you’ll get something you didn’t want, which can be especially frustrating in some boss battles. With some iteration on how the motion control combat is done, however, it could become something truly great. While I may not have been entirely enthralled with it during the course of the game, it definitely made me feel like it’s something that can really add to the experience when refined.

The rest of the motion controls are another story. Everything beyond the swordfighting, to me, felt very tacked on with little purpose other than to show off motion controls - and often they don’t even do that very well. This is excluding aiming for the bow/slingshot, etc. That’s fine and definitely needs to be kept around, though I’d still like to be able to target and use the items in third person on occasion. What I’m talking about is stuff like flying the Loftwing around, using the beetle, sky diving, drawing, etc. I personally didn’t feel like motion controls in those aspects of the game added anything meaningful to how those segments were played out. Everything there could have been done as well or better with a regular old control scheme. It’s also pretty obnoxious to have to recalibrate the center of your screen so often throughout the game, but I at least understand why it happens and it’s a pretty quick and easy fix. So the bottom line on the motion controls is refine the good stuff, and drop everything unnecessary.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

Another significant change Skyward Sword made to the typical Zelda formula was how the overworld was dealt with. Instead of a wide-open field (or ocean) with dungeons spotting the extremities, Nintendo opted for a more focused, linear approach funneling you towards each dungeon. There’s still an overworld area of sorts - the sky - but this place is pretty much entirely useless. Traversal is slow - there are only 5 or so islands that have anything of consequence on them - and the majority of the sidequests are garbage. And even that’s minimal. The rest all plays out as a sort of dungeon-lite that’ll often introduce you to some concepts you’ll have to utilize in the dungeon at the end of the road. Some of these are truly awful - sup tadtones - but some of them are actually pretty clever. While I do like more involvement in these in-between segments, I’d be lying if I said I didn’t miss the exploration offered by the old way of doing things. The game never really lets up and offers you a chance to roam and find any kind of hidden areas. There was a complaint that Twilight Princess didn’t offer any proper rewards for doing this, but I think Skyward Sword swings the pendulum too far in the other direction. There has to be some kind of happy medium that they weren’t able to find here.

The dungeons themselves, however, are spectacular. Dungeoneering is my absolute favorite part of any Zelda game, and Skyward Sword delivers in that aspect (sans the final dungeon, which I actually thought was rather disappointing). Instead of lots of smaller rooms, the game opts for fewer larger rooms with more to do within them. Despite seeming smaller in size, they still feel rich in content and are all designed extremely well. They never overstay their welcome and some of them have really cool gimmicks. To top it all off, almost every dungeon is topped off with an excellent boss battle. While some of them still require you to make use of the item you found within the dungeon, it’s not used as the crutch as was the case in previous Zelda games. The last string of bosses is particularly excellent, and the final confrontation puts Twilight Princess’s to shame.

I’d also like to say that the story in Skyward Sword is “pretty good for a Zelda game”. The characters in general have a bit more relevance than they used to previously, Ghirahim ended up being a pretty cool villain, and there’s some cool scenes at a couple key points in the game. It’s not going to win any awards, but it was nice to see something a little more meaty than what we’re used to.

Some quick hits on other, smaller aspects of the game: upgrading equipment is a near idea, but the benefits don’t really make up for the time spent trying to find the items needed. Breaking shields were a terrible idea. Fi talks too much. The harp is such a waste. Link looks kinda goofy. Actually, I’m gonna take a second to talk a bit more about that. I think Skyward Sword has a pretty cool graphical style, and I like the aesthetic of the world you explore. The great orchestrated soundtrack helps out here a lot as well. On a technical level, however, goddamn. This game wants the Wii to be an HD system so, so bad. There’s some hardcore aliasing going on here, and nothing really looks as sharp as it should. It’s really a shame, because it would look fantastic in crisp 1080p.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

Skyward Sword is a strange beast. While I do think the game is pretty good, I can’t help but feel somewhat frustrated with the whole thing. I think that it truly could have been that “best Zelda game ever” that everyone wants if it was designed just a little bit differently. I can see the potential for it in multiple facets of the game, but there are some unsavory design choices holding it back. And overall, I think that’s my biggest problem with Skyward Sword. They seemed so close to having something magical on their hands, but couldn’t quite get all the way there. Perhaps next time they’ll hit the sweet spot, but for now, Skyward Sword will have to settle with “pretty good” as opposed to “best of all time”.

Merry Christmas!

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

oh geez. I would totally read that writeup if I cared about that game!!!

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omg did u red text from last night dats so me LMAO : )
im not a slut i jus liek 2 haev fun LOL : )

LMAO!!

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

Need to play this.

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

Yeah, I pretty much agree with your take on SS, except that perhaps I thought the dungeons ranged from the truly amazing (4) to rather average (6), and turning the overworld stuff into effectively one giant dungeon was great, since I've never been too impressed by much other than dungeons in Zelda. Only big flaws are the game's intrusive hand holding (paired with slow text) and sometimes going a little overboard with the fetch-questing. Happy with Fujibayashi's first attempt otherwise.

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Who knew the Rivalry Rumble would be so predictable? SuperNiceDog, that's who.

I think 6 seems worse than it actually is because the ramp up from 1-5 is just so great, and then 6 is just good as opposed to even better than the last.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

Bump because I don't remember when the purge kicks in.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

Can't believe I read that Skyward Sword stuff even though I have no intention of ever getting it.

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I do because I can.....and because I'm bored.

#3 - Xenoblade Chronicles (Wii)
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/960564-xenoblade-chronicles

Now it's Reyn time.

Xenoblade is the best JRPG to be released this gen. It’s not even remotely close. In fact, Xenoblade is one of the best JRPGs to be released ever. 2011 has been a really strong year for games, quite possibly the greatest we’ve ever seen. To hit this point home, my top three games this year are all at the very least top 20 games of all time, and all three of the game make a very strong case for top 10. The gap between 1-3 and 4-10 is considerably large, and that’s not to say that 4-10 are bad games, 1-3 are just that good.

So Xenoblade. I’d been waiting for this game for a while. I was following it back when it was still called Monado, and for two-ish years I waited and waited for Nintendo to announce a U.S. launch date for this thing. It never happened so I said screw it and went for the European version. As of recently it finally was announced for a release here, so everyone that didn’t take the plunge early should mark your calendars for April 2012 and get this game day 1.

What makes Xenoblade good? Everything, really. The game is packed with sprawling, lush environments to traverse, and they look great. Monolith found a way to take advantage of the Wii’s aging hardware and craft a beautiful world that’s actually fun to explore. This is aided by an absolutely spectacular soundtrack. Every song fits flawlessly and there's not a clunker in the bunch. The cast of characters you travel that world with are great, too. No one stands out as a cut above the rest, but everyone’s really enjoyable, they all have significant character development, and they play off each other really well. Some of them can be voiced a little goofy at times (what a bunch of jokers) but once you get accustomed to it, the overwhelming British-ness works. No one is useless in battle either, you can make a good case for using any of them in combat.

Combat is good too. It plays out as sort of MMO-ish but it keeps you active and involved. It’s fast paced as well, so battles never feel like a chore. It's rather addicting too, because you're constantly getting some kind of reward whether it be experience, a new skill, items you need to complete quests, or a new achievement (in-game achievements that give you experience are the greatest video game innovation in the last 20 years - take note developers). The amount of content in the game is staggering, and the sheer number of quests you'll obtain is very likely going to be overwhelming. Completionist types with both revel and loathe this - the rewards are usually worth it, but hunting for that last collectable can sometimes be a severe test in patience.

If there one minor flaw in Xenoblade, it's that the story kind of unravels in the final hours. It's more than competent throughout the vast majorty of the game, with some really cool scenes and plot twists that you may or may not see coming from a mile away, but the ending stretches a little too far. I ended up being okay with it because I've come to expect that kind of thing from Xeno games, but it certainly could be a little offputting. In the grand scheme of things though, that seems incredibly minor and it's hardly a knock against it.

Xenoblade is a huge undertaking - I clocked in 105 hours in my playthrough, but every single hour is worth it. It's hard for me to say enough about this game. I had high expectations, but even those were surpassed. JRPGs are my bread and butter, and this gen hasn't had a lot to offer in that aspect. Xenoblade more than makes up for the draught. The fact that it's only #3 on the list is kind of absurd, but it just speaks to the strength of the best games of 2011.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

Xenoblade is absolutely amazing, but Valkyria Chronicles still runs it close for "Best JRPG of the gen" IMO!

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Who knew the Rivalry Rumble would be so predictable? SuperNiceDog, that's who.

Lost Odyssey still the best RPG this gen. Need to try Cenoblade, though!

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

had a feeling you'd drop that to 3

Skyward Sword seems kind of goofy at 4 seeing as how it was only slightly behind ACR for complaints.

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add the c and back away
iphonesience

I only complain because I care

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

I don't get the Lost Odyssey hype on this board. it was fine, but it was so unremarkable in a lot of ways.

also yeah, with Xenoblade and Skyward Sword, I'm considering getting a Wii next year OH MANZ

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omg did u red text from last night dats so me LMAO : )
im not a slut i jus liek 2 haev fun LOL : )

Lost Odyssey sux ballz

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

#2 - Portal 2 (360/PS3/PC)
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/991073-portal-2

Alright, I’ve been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don’t lemonade, make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life’s manager! Make life rue the day if thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man who’s gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I’m gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon to burn your house down!

Words to live by, to be sure.

I wasn’t the biggest fan of the original Portal. Maybe it was because the Internet had soured me on it before I finally got around to play it. There wasn’t really any surprise. I heard all the jokes already. It wasn’t a bad game, just not one I felt I needed to go crazy about. I didn’t ‘get’ it. As a result, I didn’t go into Portal 2 with very high expectations.

Portal 2 blew me away.

From start to finish, Portal 2 is a near flawless experience. It’s not a long game - I think I clocked about 6 hours - but for those 6 hours I couldn’t put the game down. The puzzles themselves are well put together and fun to solve. I know a lot of people think that the fact that there are less portal-able surfaces, but I think this allowed each room to have more complexity, which I liked. Portal 2 feels less tutorial-like than the original and they get you into to the beefier puzzles faster. I also appreciated what Valve did to inject a little variety into the gameplay. I think the gels were a great addition, specifically the repulsion and propulsion gels. Conversion was not as good, but it did lead to some pretty tricky brain teasers in the later portion of the game. Environments you visit are varied, rather than the same sterile rooms you were used to in the first game, and the pacing is great.

Portal 2 excels in the character department as well. I’m not the biggest GLaDOS fan in the world, but she’s pretty good here, and less one-note than in the original game. Cave Johnson’s a fun one too, even though he has less relevance than others. The real star of the game, though, is Wheatley. He completely steals the show. I loved this little dude - he’s voice fantastically, he has great writing, he’s funny, everything. Wheatley is without a doubt my favorite new character of the year, and if I were to do another top characters list, I imagine he’d find himself very close to the top.

The game’s even got co-op! I haven’t done too much of this yet, played a bit with HM, but it’s great fun. Being able to place two independent sets of portals makes for some neat gameplay twists and you have to approach the puzzles from a different angle than you do in the single player. It’s a great addition to the series, and doesn’t feel like a tacked-on multiplayer option - obvious care was put into making it as good as the single player experience. You just have to make sure you co-op partner isn’t a dick.

I honestly can’t think of a single thing wrong with Portal 2. It’s as close to what I’d consider a “perfect” game as I’ve played in a long time. It takes all the good concepts from the original game and expands on them tenfold. Everyone owes it to themselves to play this. You can get it on Steam for $15 right now, and it’s worth every penny. I can’t really recommend it enough.

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

Portal 2 good stuff

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SuperNiceDog also has the right of way.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7760/222bj.jpg

I wonder what number 1 could be

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

Can't wait for that Sonic Generations writeup

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SuperNiceDog also has the right of way.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7760/222bj.jpg

Sonic Generations is only $10 on Steam right now - buy it for me and maybe I'll play it !

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker

Yeah sure why not

What's your user name

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"I can set you free, SuperNiceDog."
"My freedom was forfeit long ago!"

I'm kidding I won't actually play it

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FF fans don't hang around the internet on a monday morning they are out doing shopping or asleep hungover from parties. They got lives. -The_Djoker