Board 8 > Board 8 Umineko Discussion Topic *SPOILERS for entire series EP1-EP8*

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Ness26
12/19/11 12:36:00 AM
#1:


We have a playthrough topic and a few announcing patches... might as well have one with a spoiler warning so we can freely discuss things.

I just finished and am fairly tired and I'm pretty sure anything I type up right now would be stupid in one way or another. Right now though... very underwhelmed.

At least there's Ougon Musou Kyoku Cross to look forward to (12/31 release date).

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baron von toast
12/19/11 11:32:00 AM
#2:


Final Character Rankings!

BEST: Erika, Bern
GREAT: Evatrice, Siestas
<GOOD>: Auaurora, 34, Stakes, Eiserne Jungfrau
WHO CARES: [everyone else]
WORST: Battler, Beatrice

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Mega Mana
12/19/11 11:33:00 AM
#3:


I think your ratings are completely backwards.

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baron von toast
12/19/11 12:30:00 PM
#4:


My rankings lack love, and are better off for it.

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#5
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Haguile
12/19/11 12:34:00 PM
#6:


tag

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tcaz2
12/19/11 12:35:00 PM
#7:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Need to get 8 working so bad.

What's wrong?

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#8
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dethfdddddh
12/19/11 12:36:00 PM
#9:


If people are disappointed about the lack of answers in Ep 8, keep in mind that Ryukishi's releasing an Umineko book called "Our Confessions" at the next Comiket.

People are speculating that it'll contain concrete answers.

I really liked Ep 8 for the record, but I can definitely understand why people would hate it. The goats were very insulting to the fanbase. I also wish that Yasu had a bigger role.

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Haguile
12/19/11 12:41:00 PM
#10:


Not really disappointed with the lack of answers, I just didn't like the way the series was structured. Episode 8 didn't feel climactic enough to end the series. I get that he was going for something that wouldn't work well for with climactic tension but...it just didn't do it for me. I'm also not a fan of the overall message of the series about escapism. Kinda rubs me the wrong way.

Those are my problems with the series itself though. Episode 8 was great as a pure fanservice episode and it was fun to read.

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Sceptilesolarbeam
12/19/11 12:42:00 PM
#11:


I didn't really think EP8 needed answers; it'd just be tedious when we already know them. Doing it in a sidebook is probably for the best.

Erika was awesome in EP8, but Ange was annoying. Considering that she was the main character, that's a serious flaw. Still, it was very good; I won't call it the best.

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tcaz2
12/19/11 12:42:00 PM
#12:


The goats are not insulting to the fanbase in any way.

There is a big discussion going on about that in the topics on OT and I'd rather not repost the whole thing, but I'll copy what Captain Panda said earlier today since it basically sums it up.

The goats are not inherently bad. Even Ikuko/Featherine herself, who people note as Ryukishi's avatar in a lot of ways, gets lumped in with them at various points, and Will and Dlanor's fight indicates that there's a lot of mutual respect between them, and that they enjoy that battle. And heck, in the very final battle, many of the goats who fall into the abyss are described as "Beatrice's friends" who attempt to rescue their brethren. Essentially, the goats are simply "Anonymous". Some are good, some are bad, and they are simply the faceless masses of those whose curiosity has been piqued by the stories. They're the fans of the series, in all forms.

The problem is Ryuukishi accidentally focused too much on the 'bad' qualities by accident, and he admits he screwed that up and didn't make it clear enough in an interview.

But they were not in any way intended to be an insult to the fans.

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dethfdddddh
12/19/11 12:43:00 PM
#13:


Haguile posted...
Episode 8 didn't feel climactic enough to end the series.

Ryukishi has an issue with anticlimactic endings. The same thing happened in his other series, Higurashi.

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baron von toast
12/19/11 12:44:00 PM
#14:


I didn't mind the goats, really. I've gotten used to him using Umineko as a soapbox for exclaiming his own profound genius to the world, so that just more of a "yeah yeah I get you're the greatest author of the modern era let's get on with it." I also wasn't bothered by the lack of answers since that ship was abandoned long ago.

I didn't like the overall philosophy and didn't care for the sappiness of the whole thing.

Too much W. I wanted more I and O.

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Haguile
12/19/11 12:44:00 PM
#15:


From: tcaz2 | Posted: 12/19/2011 3:42:32 PM | #012
The goats are not insulting to the fanbase in any way.


The problem is Ryuukishi accidentally focused too much on the 'bad' qualities by accident, and he admits he screwed that up


>.>

They weren't meant to come off as insulting, but you can't say they weren't insulting in any way since you just admitted he screwed that up. I do agree that it wasn't his intention though, some scenes made it pretty clear what he was going for he just...sort of worded it somewhat awkwardly. Not sure if it was the translation but if he admitted it in an interview, it must have been in the original too.

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dethfdddddh
12/19/11 12:45:00 PM
#16:


tcaz2 posted...
The goats are not insulting to the fanbase in any way.

There is a big discussion going on about that in the topics on OT and I'd rather not repost the whole thing, but I'll copy what Captain Panda said earlier today since it basically sums it up.

The goats are not inherently bad. Even Ikuko/Featherine herself, who people note as Ryukishi's avatar in a lot of ways, gets lumped in with them at various points, and Will and Dlanor's fight indicates that there's a lot of mutual respect between them, and that they enjoy that battle. And heck, in the very final battle, many of the goats who fall into the abyss are described as "Beatrice's friends" who attempt to rescue their brethren. Essentially, the goats are simply "Anonymous". Some are good, some are bad, and they are simply the faceless masses of those whose curiosity has been piqued by the stories. They're the fans of the series, in all forms.

The problem is Ryuukishi accidentally focused too much on the 'bad' qualities by accident, and he admits he screwed that up and didn't make it clear enough in an interview.

But they were not in any way intended to be an insult to the fans.


Then how about presenting the Witch Hunters as voyeurs?

I didn't care since I have thick skin, but I can see some readers having a problem.

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tcaz2
12/19/11 12:45:00 PM
#17:


I don't think either was anticlimactic. They brought the series themes to conclusion perfectly in both.

What more do you want? It sounds like you hyped it up so much for yourself nothing he could have done would satisfy you.

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dethfdddddh
12/19/11 12:49:00 PM
#18:


tcaz2 posted...
I don't think either was anticlimactic. They brought the series themes to conclusion perfectly in both.

What more do you want? It sounds like you hyped it up so much for yourself nothing he could have done would satisfy you.


Actual logic battles on par with Ep 4/5/6 rather than fantasy duels.

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Haguile
12/19/11 12:49:00 PM
#19:


From: tcaz2 | Posted: 12/19/2011 3:45:35 PM | #017
I don't think either was anticlimactic. They brought the series themes to conclusion perfectly in both.

What more do you want? It sounds like you hyped it up so much for yourself nothing he could have done would satisfy you.


Anyone I talk to can attest I wasn't hyped up at all. To me the series feels like it ended around episode 6 and it just sort of kept going. I say it wasn't climactic enough because I feel it didn't have enough tension. I don't think the series did good enough of a job trying to make us care about Ange's issues(which was the main plot of this episode). I think the series was about Battler and Beatrice and their issue was pretty much settled during 5/6/7. So there wasn't much left to do in episode 8.

I think a series needs to build up to something and finish it in the last episode. Umineko sort of finished all its loose threads before episode 8 so it was more of an epilogue than anything, which just didn't do it for me. I get that's what he was going for, but to me it felt "meh."

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dethfdddddh
12/19/11 12:51:00 PM
#20:


In regards to Higurashi, the main antagonist was defeated far too easily.

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Ness26
12/19/11 1:31:00 PM
#21:


Yeah, I wasn't expecting Ep 8 to have answers, but it still was really disappointing.

The fantasy fighting scenes are really not very good. Plus the amount of "oh wait, not reallys" that happened were obnoxious. "It was an afterimage. Bern isn't really dead. Lambda isn't really dead. The seal isn't broken yet. The fragment shattered." Not to mention stupid things like: "oh yeah, we had weapons that could destroy the Golden Land in about 5 seconds but we decided not to use them until now." It feels like he wrote each scene individually without even considering what happened at any other point.

... actually, that might sum up my entire impression of Umineko outside of the actual murder mysteries.

Episode Ranking (based on my enjoyment first time reading):
3 > 1 > 5 > 2 >>> 4 > 7 > 8 > 6

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#22
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_Regaro_
12/19/11 9:33:00 PM
#23:


character ranking:

Kyrie > Ange > Kinzo > Erika > Lambda = Bern > Beatrice (Ignoring 5/Pre-Wedding 6) > Rudolf > Battler > It's a fairly large cluster**** here > Featherine


Featherine is the only character I probably really dislike. I mean, she's not really that bad, but she annoys the hell out of me.

As for episodes...

8 > 4 > 3 > 7 > 1 > 5 > 2 > 6 feels right.

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Team Rocket Elite
12/19/11 11:18:00 PM
#24:


I like how Lambdadelta used the game to campaign for votes then actually ended up 3rd in the popularity poll.

http://when-they-cry.net/Cgi/vote/umi8/vote_end.html

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Sceptilesolarbeam
12/19/11 11:21:00 PM
#25:


From: _Regaro_ | #023
character ranking:

Kyrie > Ange > Kinzo > Erika > Lambda = Bern > Beatrice (Ignoring 5/Pre-Wedding 6) > Rudolf > Battler > It's a fairly large cluster**** here > Featherine


Featherine is the only character I probably really dislike. I mean, she's not really that bad, but she annoys the hell out of me.

As for episodes...

8 > 4 > 3 > 7 > 1 > 5 > 2 > 6 feels right.


Ange so damn high

why

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YoboD
12/19/11 11:24:00 PM
#26:


Team Rocket Elite posted...

http://when-they-cry.net/Cgi/vote/umi8/vote_end.html


Wow, Japan has some awful opinions.

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baron von toast
12/19/11 11:27:00 PM
#27:


The thing that strikes me most about the poll if 556 over Kinzo. What a world.

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Team Rocket Elite
12/19/11 11:28:00 PM
#28:


Which characters did you feel they had too high/low?

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YoboD
12/19/11 11:34:00 PM
#29:


Kyrie, Kinzo and Rudolf being so low is what jumps out. Very weird seeing Ange so high too, compared to here where everyone hates her.

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Haguile
12/19/11 11:35:00 PM
#30:


From: Team Rocket Elite | Posted: 12/20/2011 2:18:27 AM | #024
I like how Lambdadelta used the game to campaign for votes then actually ended up 3rd in the popularity poll.

http://when-they-cry.net/Cgi/vote/umi8/vote_end.html


Ignoring a few characters that are too high, let's just focus on the most important thing here.

GODDAMN KRAUSS is the most popular adult male in the series. Yesss.

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YoboD
12/19/11 11:37:00 PM
#31:


Clearly it's because he remembered to tie his shoes.

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Haguile
12/19/11 11:45:00 PM
#32:


Ushiromiya Krauss. Punching little girls since ever.

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SuperAngelo128
12/19/11 11:45:00 PM
#33:


I'll check this out this topic once I finish ep8

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Ankleslam101
12/19/11 11:48:00 PM
#34:


It's a shame that episode 8 was the worst, but I should have taken hints from episode 7 and 6 that this wasn't going anywhere. Wasted potential, really.
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_Regaro_
12/20/11 8:18:00 AM
#35:


From: Sceptilesolarbeam | #025
Ange so damn high

why


cuz ange

From: Haguile | #030
GODDAMN KRAUSS is the most popular adult male in the series. Yesss.


I can live with this

From: baron von toast | #027
The thing that strikes me most about the poll if 556 over Kinzo. What a world.


Japan's #1 export is bad taste. They Did get Beato, Lambda, Erika, and Ange being high relatively right though. But things like Natsuhi, Rosa, Kanon, and Jessica in the top 15 'what'

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Ness26
12/20/11 8:43:00 AM
#36:


That poll really makes you realize how many more female characters are in the series. There's 5 males in the top 25.

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TRE Public Account
12/20/11 8:56:00 AM
#37:


Not counting Kanon and Lion as male?

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Ness26
12/20/11 8:59:00 AM
#38:


Oh oops, skipped over Ange's bodyguard.

I was counting Kanon but not Lion.

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Ness26
12/20/11 9:02:00 AM
#39:


From: baron von toast | #027
The thing that strikes me most about the poll if 556 over Kinzo. What a world.


The freaking social worker that checks in on Maria/Rosa is above Kinzo (as well as Genji/Kumasawa).

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TRE Public Account
12/20/11 9:14:00 AM
#40:


The lower end of the poll probably isn't very reliable. The characters there will suffer from large amounts of SFF and the low vote counts means a small joke rally can get a joke character above more legitimate characters.

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Ness26
12/20/11 9:16:00 AM
#41:


Well, yeah, but it's still funny.

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Haguile
12/20/11 1:38:00 PM
#42:


I would ask what's likable about Ange but I think Regaro already tried to explain it to me like three times and I still didn't get it >.>

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voltch
12/20/11 1:56:00 PM
#43:


Meh the big vote getters took up so much percentage that the rest of the rankings ispretty irrelevant.

Looks like Lambda got her wish of top 5.

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TRE Public Account
12/20/11 2:05:00 PM
#44:


Lambdadelta actually asked for a Top 3 finish at first before changing it to top 5 and she got the top 3 finish.

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_Regaro_
12/20/11 2:58:00 PM
#45:


From: TRE Public Account | #044
Lambdadelta actually asked for a Top 3 finish at first before changing it to top 5 and she got the top 3 finish.


tcaz3: lol
Lambda is amazing as hell in Ep8
Regaro: she's pretty bro-tier
tcaz3: I love how she's all "WELL IF I HELPED YOU I'D PROBABLY SHOOT WAY UP THE POPULARITY POLLS, TOP 3 EVEN"
Regaro: and then goes "no thanks"
tcaz3: instantly funnier if you know she in fact got #3 in the last popularity poll
Regaro: ...oh god
more like instantly ****ing hilarious

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th3l3fty
12/21/11 10:30:00 PM
#46:


Ronove in 20th that poll is an absolute disgrace

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KamikazePotato
12/22/11 12:37:00 AM
#47:


Just finished.

It felt like Episode 6 a lot, in that it had some really low points but also some really high points, and I don't agree with the overall message of escapism. But it was also much better than Episode 6 and I loved the ending. Not a fan of fantasy battles instead of mystery battles but the fantasy battles were done much better than they usually are and I loved solving the puzzles.

Overall, it's actually a lot better than I could have hoped for. Stuff as 'unique' as Umineko usually ends really goddamn stupidly, or at least weird. It wasn't nearly as weird as I thought it would be and the endings had some of my favorite scenes of the entire series, so hey.

I don't know how anyone can be mad at the goats. They're more funny than anything else.

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KamikazePotato
12/22/11 12:38:00 AM
#48:


Also, I'd like to give special thanks to Witch Hunt for translating everything. Fantastic job from all of you, thanks for letting me experience this story.

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KamikazePotato
12/22/11 12:41:00 AM
#49:


Also uh

7>5>2>1>8>4>3>6

Something like that.

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Team Rocket Elite
12/22/11 1:06:00 AM
#50:


I don't know how anyone can be mad at the goats. They're more funny than anything else.

I think a lot of the fans didn't appreciate being represented by goats that eat everything around them even the ground they stand on.

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