1. No alt voting 2. Matches will last exactly 24 hours. If someone goes up 15 on their opponent and discussion is clearly over, the match will end early. 3. Be honest with your vote. I can't hold anyone to this, but just pick who you think will win the match regardless of other circumstances. 4. Feel free to debate how much and how ever you like. 5. Don't have fun, fun is your enemy.
There will be spoilers for The Dresden Files and the Order of the Stick in this topic
Harry Dresden is from The Dresden Files, a novel series that centers around his exploits as the one and only wizard detective of the great city of Chicago. Harry is a skilled wizard although he excels at battle magic – the stuff that makes things go boom if you will. He particularly likes fire and is very adept at destroying things, as some of his rivals have noted sarcastically to him over the years. All of his spells can be enhanced with Soulfire, a type of magical energy that may well be best used for illusion magic, although it makes all of Harry’s magic much more powerful. Harry has also learned to completely block out pain, enduring through situations where other lesser wizards would have been knocked out – or worse. Harry is also now the Winter Knight, which grants him massive stamina, a huge power upgrade which puts him on par with wizards much his elder, and the ability to command the cold.
Additionally he has several items on his person at any one time that helps him in battle. He has kinetic rings which he wears on both hands that can unleash a very powerful blast, we well as a blasting rod and a wizarding staff to augment different areas of magic.
Versus
Xykon is from the webcomic The Order of the Stick. He was once a human but has been an undead lich for a very long time now. In battle Xykon prefers shock and awe techniques as his bread and butter to achieve his victories. He is a very powerful magic user who has a natural talent for necromancy, which he used on his dog, grandmother, and just about everyone else he knew. He is kind of a dick like that.
The battlefield will be true neutral, which is whatever you want to make it in your mind as long as it grants no upperhand for either opponent.
Please remember that the write-ups are merely summations of a character. They will not usually tell the complete and detailed story of a fighter. Keep an open mind if someone brings evidence to the table for or against someone, as the stated goal is to determine who wins in a fight and not who is your personal favorite. Thanks and have fun.
We're using Winter Knight Harry? Then he stomps. It'd have been closer otherwise.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
Created a big gravitational field that pulverized an army and smashed up a massive temple. Instantly fired hundreds of ice spears. Cover the area in an instant ice floor + blizzard. Those would be the most impressive feats he displayed in the relatively short time he's had to display his new power.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
Xykon is basically an idiot. He clowns around a lot, while Harry is pretty much business.
Most importantly, he doesn't get buffing time - with buffing he can fly and do other good ****, but as-is he's a landbound caster who takes six seconds to cast against somebody who can do long-ranged grapples with divine fists of energy. You know, like a certain D&D spell designed to screw over casters.
'yeah'. He's a fair bit better than Xykon at the blasty thing, which is all Xykon is going to get because he's not going to take a dude that looks like he came out of World of Darkness seriously.
against dorukan in start of darkness, an other epic-level caster that's pretty similar in power to xykon, his strategy was to cast energy drain over and over. I don't know dnd stuff at all, so i don't know what the spell does exactly but xykon says "all I need to do is keep smacking you with Energy Drains, and soon you won't be able to cast any of your fancy spells at all."
So... seems like that'd be pretty good?
also, Xykon is immune to cold, electricity, and fire.
and xykon only dicks around against opponents when he knows he vastly stronger than them and has already won the fight. he kills npcs in droves without hesitation and he doesn't mess around at all the one or two times he's fought someone that's actually a threat (see: dorukan)
Xykon's not immune to getting smashed into a ball by a gravity field, is he?
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
against dorukan in start of darkness, an other epic-level caster that's pretty similar in power to xykon, his strategy was to cast energy drain over and over. I don't know dnd stuff at all, so i don't know what the spell does exactly but xykon says "all I need to do is keep smacking you with Energy Drains, and soon you won't be able to cast any of your fancy spells at all."
So... seems like that'd be pretty good?
also, Xykon is immune to cold, electricity, and fire.
and xykon only dicks around against opponents when he knows he vastly stronger than them and has already won the fight. he kills npcs in droves without hesitation and he doesn't mess around at all the one or two times he's fought someone that's actually a threat (see: dorukan)
Doesn't work like that. Xykon has to land a hit to drain Harry. Landing hits isn't that easy against someone with excellent reflexes and good magical wards.
Xykon's not immune to getting smashed into a ball by a gravity field, is he?
how often does dresden do that? is that his primary attack? would he lead with it? how often has he used it? is it his most powerful attack? because i think that energy drain basically cuts people off from accessing their best spells and whatnot. if he doesn't lead with it and xykon gets in an energy drain, is it possible he wouldn't be able to use it at all?
Doesn't work like that. Xykon has to land a hit to drain Harry. Landing hits isn't that easy against someone with excellent reflexes and good magical wards.
"excellent reflexes" plenty of OotS characters have excellent reflexes too. do you mean he moves at supersonic speeds? peak human? much better than peak human? what are some things he's dodged that are very fast? and xykon has immunities to what sounds like a lot of dresden's go-to spells. anything specific on "magic wards"? Is it like he's immune to things or a more general resistance to magic? what have they warded from?
i literally know nothing about harry dresden, so i'd love to get more info and especially examples. like that gravity attacks sounds like it'd probably beat xykon, so i'd like to hear more about that.
Well, he's only used the gravity crush once, so I doubt he'd lead with it. Energy Drain is hard to convert outside of D&D realm; I guess it makes him weaker physically and magically... But Harry can still get around that with Soulfire.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
Well, he's only used the gravity crush once, so I doubt he'd lead with it. Energy Drain is hard to convert outside of D&D realm; I guess it makes him weaker physically and magically... But Harry can still get around that with Soulfire.
and what does soulfire do exactly? "makes spells more powerful" i know, but how much? does it mean that when he goes to light a candle he instead destroys the entire building? how has it been used in the past and what kind of power boost does it give? is there any limitation to how much he can use it, or is it just something that's always on and making him more powerful?
also, what were the circumstances that led him to use the gravity attack? was it some great desperation attack? or has he just not had an occasion to use it again?
and i mean, outside of dnd rules translation and just in terms of what actually happens, i'm looking at the page where he spams energy drain on dorukan, and in five uses it took dorukan from unharmed to dead.
Which reminds me, how tough is dresden? what kind of attacks has he taken?
From: The Destoyer | #013 Xykon's not immune to getting smashed into a ball by a gravity field, is he?
how often does dresden do that? is that his primary attack? would he lead with it? how often has he used it? is it his most powerful attack? because i think that energy drain basically cuts people off from accessing their best spells and whatnot. if he doesn't lead with it and xykon gets in an energy drain, is it possible he wouldn't be able to use it at all?
Doesn't work like that. Xykon has to land a hit to drain Harry. Landing hits isn't that easy against someone with excellent reflexes and good magical wards.
"excellent reflexes" plenty of OotS characters have excellent reflexes too. do you mean he moves at supersonic speeds? peak human? much better than peak human? what are some things he's dodged that are very fast? and xykon has immunities to what sounds like a lot of dresden's go-to spells. anything specific on "magic wards"? Is it like he's immune to things or a more general resistance to magic? what have they warded from?
i literally know nothing about harry dresden, so i'd love to get more info and especially examples. like that gravity attacks sounds like it'd probably beat xykon, so i'd like to hear more about that.
Let's see...
He's reacted to flamethrower jets, raising a shield up in time. Bullets, too. Superfast enemies, yeah, done it. He's fought plenty of nasty stuff, and the Winter Knight boost amplified his parameters considerably above human.
and what does soulfire do exactly? "makes spells more powerful" i know, but how much? does it mean that when he goes to light a candle he instead destroys the entire building? how has it been used in the past and what kind of power boost does it give? is there any limitation to how much he can use it, or is it just something that's always on and making him more powerful?
Power boost is a big deal. He has to activate it, and it weakens him to use.
also, what were the circumstances that led him to use the gravity attack? was it some great desperation attack? or has he just not had an occasion to use it again?
He hasn't had the opportunity to use it again; he just used it to open up his fight with the Red Court.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
From: The Destoyer | #015 Well, he's only used the gravity crush once, so I doubt he'd lead with it. Energy Drain is hard to convert outside of D&D realm; I guess it makes him weaker physically and magically... But Harry can still get around that with Soulfire.
and what does soulfire do exactly? "makes spells more powerful" i know, but how much? does it mean that when he goes to light a candle he instead destroys the entire building? how has it been used in the past and what kind of power boost does it give? is there any limitation to how much he can use it, or is it just something that's always on and making him more powerful?
also, what were the circumstances that led him to use the gravity attack? was it some great desperation attack? or has he just not had an occasion to use it again?
and i mean, outside of dnd rules translation and just in terms of what actually happens, i'm looking at the page where he spams energy drain on dorukan, and in five uses it took dorukan from unharmed to dead.
Which reminds me, how tough is dresden? what kind of attacks has he taken?
The ultimate example is his first use of Soulfire. He wanted to do a force spell, normal blast of energy.
What he got? Gigantic silver hand that easily held a superhuman adversary (a caster too - a caster that managed to trash a palace of eternal ice made by the queen of winter with the fires of hell, which means HELLA powerful), preventing him from doing anything. There's other examples, too. Soulfire is a massive amplifier for Harry's spells.
He's reacted to flamethrower jets, raising a shield up in time. Bullets, too. Superfast enemies, yeah, done it. He's fought plenty of nasty stuff, and the Winter Knight boost amplified his parameters considerably above human.
Shielding, does that need a physical movement or just a thought? and how fast is a "superfast enemy"? mach 1? slower? faster? or is it not clear because books are rarely clear about this kind of stuff?
regardless, he has great defenses and reflexes. The other side of the question: what does hit him? And what kinds of things do his shields tank and how powerful does something have to be to hurt him?
He hasn't had the opportunity to use it again; he just used it to open up his fight with the Red Court.
i see. i presume the red court is something pretty big and important? Was it taxing on him to use or anything like that?
how does magic work for dresden, anyway? hand movements, magic words, just thoughts, etc? Does it tire them out or anything?
at this point i'm reasonably convinced that xykon is outclassed, but i would like some more info
Oh wait, about the gravity crush, he had a leyline to access in that part. That probably would violate the neutral terrain rules.
how does magic work for dresden, anyway? hand movements, magic words, just thoughts, etc? Does it tire them out or anything?
Depends. He can do magic via thought but does so very rarely because it's hard to control like that. Magic words almost always. Hand movements are just extra.
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick
Oh wait, about the gravity crush, he had a leyline to access in that part. That probably would violate the neutral terrain rules.
yeah, probably. Dresden prefers fire spells, but i imagine he'd quickly figure out that xykon is immune to them. i assume he has reasonable non-fire, non-ice spells? from where i am right now, it sounds like without soulfire, this fight would probably be reasonably close, since xykon is pretty tough and would probably get in a free shot or two while dresden used ineffective fire/ice magic or whatever, but depending on dresden's defense, which i still wanna hear about, dresden very likely has time to power out a soulfire'd spell, and it seems like that would either end the fight or at least give him a pretty crushing advantage
dumb question but when, say, his fire spell doesn't work, would he think "oh this guy is immune to fire" or would he think "oh this guy is really tough but if i super charge my favorite fire spell it'll totally get him"? this is like 99.9% irrelevant, but i'm curious =)
Depends. He can do magic via thought but does so very rarely because it's hard to control like that. Magic words almost always. Hand movements are just extra.
i see, so it's pretty similar to oots (and presumably dnd). huh, he can talk really fast then if he can stop bullets via magic words =)
so is he mostly limited to one spell at a time? can he fire off a bunch of spells in succession?
i would like to hear any examples on his defenses, mainly, since i think that's the last thing i really need. that wikipedia article didn't really give too much specifics on how good his defense is aside from his shields "can deal with significant attacks without a problem." which doesn't tell me all that much.
Dresden's defense varies. Without soulfire, his shield tanks some potent stuff (IIRC it tanks a gigantic explosion of C4 at one point? As-in, enough to destroy a whole tunnel system). WITH Soulfile, it's considerably above that.
Harry faces things with immunities all the time, it wouldn't be anything new to him to see a spell not work.
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"intention doesn't matter? clearly your cashier degree did not require a law course." - ND to Joyrock on the legality of drinking a soda before paying
From: Achromatic | #023 Harry faces things with immunities all the time, it wouldn't be anything new to him to see a spell not work.
Specifically, he's even faced an enemy immune to everything until he figured out his weakness (it was a fear-eater if you're curious). This included fire. In the end, Harry came out on top. He's extraordinarily bullheaded, and until he dies he'll keep on going and going.
on his shields, what about spells that don't cause physical damage, per se. like, are their spells in his universe that would drain away your attributes/stamina/strength/etc and does he have the same kind of defensive power against something like that as well?
from what it sounds like, he can probably tank xykon's offensive spells, and off the top of my head the only thing xykon would likely use on his own that doesn't cause physical damage is energy drain, so i'm mainly wondering if dresden can shield from that as well.
also how many times can he soulfire in a fight? would go for it pretty quickly?
From: The Destoyer | #025 on his shields, what about spells that don't cause physical damage, per se. like, are their spells in his universe that would drain away your attributes/stamina/strength/etc and does he have the same kind of defensive power against something like that as well?
from what it sounds like, he can probably tank xykon's offensive spells, and off the top of my head the only thing xykon would likely use on his own that doesn't cause physical damage is energy drain, so i'm mainly wondering if dresden can shield from that as well.
also how many times can he soulfire in a fight? would go for it pretty quickly?
He can use it until he dies because he doesn't have a soul anymore.
It isn't on short supply though, and he'll use it as much as needed.
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Behold the majesty that is Doom. Feast upon his greatness, and know you will never measure up. http://img.imgcake.com/Punny/scenemaybecompletepngre.png
Achromatic posted... From: The Destoyer | #025 on his shields, what about spells that don't cause physical damage, per se. like, are their spells in his universe that would drain away your attributes/stamina/strength/etc and does he have the same kind of defensive power against something like that as well?
from what it sounds like, he can probably tank xykon's offensive spells, and off the top of my head the only thing xykon would likely use on his own that doesn't cause physical damage is energy drain, so i'm mainly wondering if dresden can shield from that as well.
also how many times can he soulfire in a fight? would go for it pretty quickly? He can use it until he dies because he doesn't have a soul anymore.
It isn't on short supply though, and he'll use it as much as needed.
Does his soul replenish itself over time?
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From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch
From: redrocket | #027 Achromatic posted... From: The Destoyer | #025 on his shields, what about spells that don't cause physical damage, per se. like, are their spells in his universe that would drain away your attributes/stamina/strength/etc and does he have the same kind of defensive power against something like that as well?
from what it sounds like, he can probably tank xykon's offensive spells, and off the top of my head the only thing xykon would likely use on his own that doesn't cause physical damage is energy drain, so i'm mainly wondering if dresden can shield from that as well.
also how many times can he soulfire in a fight? would go for it pretty quickly? He can use it until he dies because he doesn't have a soul anymore.
It isn't on short supply though, and he'll use it as much as needed.
Does his soul replenish itself over time?
Yes, over days or weeks.
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"intention doesn't matter? clearly your cashier degree did not require a law course." - ND to Joyrock on the legality of drinking a soda before paying
From: The Destoyer | #025 on his shields, what about spells that don't cause physical damage, per se. like, are their spells in his universe that would drain away your attributes/stamina/strength/etc and does he have the same kind of defensive power against something like that as well?
from what it sounds like, he can probably tank xykon's offensive spells, and off the top of my head the only thing xykon would likely use on his own that doesn't cause physical damage is energy drain, so i'm mainly wondering if dresden can shield from that as well.
also how many times can he soulfire in a fight? would go for it pretty quickly?
There are mindrape spells, for instance. And...I THINK there's something like an energy drain in the form of necromancy, but not quite like the whole 'black tendril of gameplay mechanics, dodge or lose life experience' that that spell is.
what about a paralyzing/immobilizing spells? would dresden be incapacitated if xykon rendered him incapable of moving/speaking with Hold Person? or would he be able to defend against it/fight through it/etc?
note, i don't know that xykon would actually use this in a serious fight, because he typically only uses it in situations where he's already won a fight against a non-threat.
Those require a...wanna say will save, and they have a mind affecting tag. Dresden has resisted way, way worse mental attacks. Besides the incarnation of fear above, he faced down an enemy that was a demigod of murder, saw it in its trueform, yet bounced back easily (something seen with true sight is always vividly recalled and much more powerful than what normal eyes can see), and defeated a Thing That Should Not Be when he was a teenager, who crept into his mind. Hold Person won't be able to hold him much. Maybe something like a Web or something that requires physical effort to bypass would have a better shot, but it's unlikely. Damage is the best bet against him, provided you can hit hard enough.
if xykon were a trickier fighter he might stand more of a chance, but this is fight between two guys who prefer brute force and dresden seems to have the superior offense/defense. xykon winning would probably require both him getting off a bunch of unresisted energy drains AND dresden not hitting him with a soulfire'd spell, which seems like it's very unlikely.
i can imagine xykon maybe getting a couple hits on dresden due to his immunities, but dresden should quickly realize what's going on and find a spell that will hurt xykon and it's probably over from there.
From: Wanglicious | #035 huh. harry seems moderately interesting
Moderately is putting it mildly. As far as magic that isn't world-rending goes, not only is he top of the heap (pretty sure he could take even a Zelretch-toting Rin Tohsaka with ease), but as far as character goes he's godly. He's a super, super likeable hero and you really should read his books!