Board 8 > Some NFL magazine names Peyton Manning league MVP.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Congrats, MWC. I didn't know you were writing for an NFL magazine.

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Surely you mean the NFL Magazine.

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By NFL rules, are you even eligible for the MVP if you haven't played?

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Manning should be retroactively given the MVP for all years of the last decade.

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Dan Marino should have been winning the MVP every year since he retired

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He's more valuable than any other quarterback in the league. He was literally the sole reason why the Colts were any good.

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Deserves it

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While counterintuitive, MWC's reasoning is completely logical and his conclusion could be seen as the natural and unavoidable consequence of that reasoning. The MVP is the Most Valuable Player. The most valuable player is the one who would make the biggest difference to a random team if he were added to it. Actually playing is only evidentiary in nature- actual play is used to prove who is the most valuable. But it's only a matter of evidence, not a matter of the substantive question of who is the MVP.

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By that standard then we should just give the MVP to Jim Brown every year because he was probably the most valuable single player in NFL history.

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I understand the reasoning.

But can you be the most valuable player when you don't even play?

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The whole "Peyton Manning should be MVP" thing was like, a mildly clever point to make on talk radio a few weeks ago.

But to seriously act on it and vote for him is pretty idiotic.

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I always assumed it was just a tongue and cheek thing people said, not that they really thought he should win MVP

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The whole "Peyton Manning should be MVP" thing is funny, but if you think about it he's not really valuable at all sitting on the sideline with a broken neck eating up the Colts' salary and preventing them from having a suitable backup. It does, however, cement the fact that he was far and away the MVP in every year he played, though.

But can you be the most valuable player when you don't even play?

Good point. I guess you could make the argument that he is still a football player, just one that's temporarily not playing. Like a soldier who returns home for a visit is still a soldier. Or, a teacher is still a teacher during summer vacation.

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Yes, but would those people get any sort of awards for some sort of service for periods of time when they are not serving?

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From: red sox 777 | #008
While counterintuitive, MWC's reasoning is completely logical and his conclusion could be seen as the natural and unavoidable consequence of that reasoning. The MVP is the Most Valuable Player. The most valuable player is the one who would make the biggest difference to a random team if he were added to it. Actually playing is only evidentiary in nature- actual play is used to prove who is the most valuable. But it's only a matter of evidence, not a matter of the substantive question of who is the MVP.

"would" is the incorrect term for something perceived to be earned/deserved. and dome players should never win anything.

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"would" is the incorrect term for something perceived to be earned/deserved. and dome players should never win anything.

Nothing in the phrase "most valuable player" suggests it is earned. The most valuable diamond, the most valuable house, etc. certainly didn't earn it.

I don't necessarily agree with MWC's position, but it is logical.

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Nothing is more valuable than actual performance. We aren't discussing diamonds.

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So you think value is simply inherent?

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Hypothetical: (I haven't checked the schedule) Say he plays week 17 against some team in wild card contention, and they win 35-14. MVP?

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Reasonable people understand that this is a complete team collapse, that the defense is awful, and that even if Peyton was playing they'd still be a bad team. IMO he should retire right now and enjoy legendary status. It's only downhill from here for the guy.

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I might even go as far as to say that the phrase "actually made the biggest difference" is logically incoherent.

What does that mean? That there was the biggest difference between what the player actually produced and what a replacement player would have accomplished? That makes sense, but then you are reverting back to "would." The player whose team got the best results? Obviously not what the MVP is for. The player with the best stats? Unless you can identify how those stats impact winning, that doesn't answer the question of who is the most valuable player, though it comes closer to the "best" player. Though it's probably true that there is no such thing as best player beyond most valuable player anyway, so it doesn't help much anyway.

Valuable is valuable is valuable. The question to ask if you want to compare 2 players is: which one do I want on my team? I think the better argument against Peyton Manning being MVP is that an injured player is not valuable, rather than that a player who didn't play is not valuable.

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