Board 8 > The Show EP6 - Red/Ryu! Dante/Sora! Samus/Bosses! (about time) w/ Leon + Big Bob

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ngamer backtracking. I love it

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that is not breaking news Ngamer, you need better news. Dirk the Daring would kill people in 2k11

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it is a poor idea for a contest, criticize away

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Thinking about voting? In an internet poll? uhhhhhhhhhh Yoblazer gives people way too much credit

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next contest: Fodder Rumble

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SB 3rd biggest fan?

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lol if it means anything, I'm number 1 on the site for banked points :P I decided to bank on Kirby/Sonic..

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the worst that could happen .... OH WOW NGAMER CUTS HIM DEEP

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so next week I'll show up Leon

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Work me in Ngamer. You need to be told some things.

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worst episode of the season 9.4/10

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LeonhartFour posted...
From: Greyfeld | #044
If you think that the '09 games contest is any indication of rivalry strength
And I don't!

Gee, I never thought of it like that! Your arguments confound me, good sir!

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I wasn't aware I needed to make an argument in order for me to be able to disagree with you!

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Yeah, if we get a good contest things will recover somewhat.

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Praise the Black Turtle, Game of the Decade Guru Champ.
(Well, I never promised creativity, did I?!)

But if you want me to make a counterargument...

Street Fighter games aren't strong
Sonic games aren't strong
Mega Man games aren't strong
Mega Man X games aren't strong
Mortal Kombat games aren't strong
Donkey Kong games aren't strong
Ace Attorney games aren't strong

And yet we've seen some rivalries from these series do very well, some better than they normally would do 1-on-1.

If you want to argue "Strong games = Strong rivalries" moreso than "Strong games = Strong characters," then you're gonna need to give me more than Red/Blue.

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Ngamer: Shoot yo, I almost wonder? Is there something else that might be able to save contests on this site that you want to run by SB?

yoblazer: Ugh, I'm just so forgetful today. You know, I think it's this whole Zelda thing. I forgot about the Metal Gear Solid duo, which are 2 of my favorite characters ever. Uh, something about... I don't know, like a bat, sonar... I don't know, like a clown, maybe like this guy who wears this black mask and needs help breathing. Does any of this ring a bell?

Ngamer: It almost sounds as though you're talking about bringing Batman into a All-Fictional Character Battle on the front page of this site.

yoblazer: You know, you got it. See, it's just... I don't know, you play Zelda and everything goes out the door. That's exactly what I meant. Batman, The Joker, Darth Vader, even Homer Simpson. Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny could probably win a lot of matches and get you some more votes.


Sounds like yoblazer had a brain fart on The Show. Also, it took me a while to type out the stuff that Ngamer and yoblazer were saying, as I found myself going back several seconds multiple times just so I can hear exactly what was being said. I also didn't include the nonsense stuff (that I couldn't make out) that yoblazer said during that section of the episode.

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Luster Soldier - Popular at school. ~Shield Bearer~ | ~Data Analyst~

Wow, a Show transcript, how cool is that!

In other news, this Alucard win is slaying a ton of brackets. Now only 77 are left (35%), and we're also down to just 20 perfects.

But I'm afraid there's also some BAD NEWS for tomorrow...

Eternal_Debate posted...
Portal win eliminates:
Ngamer, wazzup, yesmar, grapefruit, jacko, worlds envy, kotetsu, ultima, foxhead, dragon, tofa, sephirot, appreciate, jman and cookie monster

CT win eliminates:
Turus, harrich, linkhatesganon, ngirl, Yoda, Paul, deuce, fastfalcon, nameless, dauntless and lockes

Some big names on the line here.

*gulp*

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Ngamer64 | Posted 11/29/2011 4:14:56 AM | message detail
Wow, a Show transcript, how cool is that!

Only for a small section of the episode. Don't expect me to work on doing an entire transcript for the episode.

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Luster Soldier --- ~Shield Bearer~ | ~Data Analyst~
Popular at school, but not as cool as BlAcK TuRtLe, Guru Champ!

Also had I had time for discussion on Chell/Frog, I would have said that I picked Chell before the brackets locked, but am sticking with Frog now. Because Ness has gotta be pretty weak, and Chell did not put up good numbers on him.

At least I can't be eliminated from the Guru until the Trainers lose!

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Looks like we'll be down to 66 after tomorrow.

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More people need to listen.

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From: LeonhartFour | #065
But if you want me to make a counterargument...

Street Fighter games aren't strong
Sonic games aren't strong
Mega Man games aren't strong
Mega Man X games aren't strong
Mortal Kombat games aren't strong
Donkey Kong games aren't strong
Ace Attorney games aren't strong

And yet we've seen some rivalries from these series do very well, some better than they normally would do 1-on-1.

If you want to argue "Strong games = Strong rivalries" moreso than "Strong games = Strong characters," then you're gonna need to give me more than Red/Blue.

See, the problem is that those series are stronger than the sum of their parts. Sure in a 6-way poll, Mega Man 2 and 3 would dominate, but put any one of the original series up against another opponent, and they all probably do pretty close to the same. Also, given the age of most of those series, there's definitely a lot of SmartVoterFAQs involved.

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Game of the decade? More like Guru of the decade mirite?

I'd also make the argument that the characters are more timeless than the games. We never really got to see this in effect because games were always divided by generations, but whenever you did see a crossover, aside from the top 5-6, most of the other old games would get thrashed by newer games.

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Game of the decade? More like Guru of the decade mirite?

The newer games are stronger on average, but the very strongest games are older games.

But no matter how you want to look at it, the DK series, the MK series, and the AA series are not strong on this site.

And the point that Greyfeld seems to be trying to make is that having a strong game/series matters more in this contest than it normally does (Because otherwise, why would he make it? We already know stronger games have the potential to have stronger characters, although it's not guaranteed). I don't really see any evidence that it matters more in this contest than it usually does. It might. I won't outright deny it because we can't tell for sure, but I haven't seen it.

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Ngamerrrrr!!

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Remember, we all predicted Frog/Magus would win this!

When has The Show ever let you down?

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IS there any reason why your podcasts don't update on Icrap?(aka Itunes)

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I'll let you guys know I was listening to the show as I typed this post.

Here's something weird: in both of our recent "character" contests, Pokemon seemed to be unexpectedly on steroids, yet during GOTD, the Pokemon series was disappointing all-around (with RSE's performance against Mario Galaxy being the sole exception). Worth noting is that last time we saw Metroid against Pokemon, the Metroid entity vastly exceeded expectations.

What's this about both DMCs disappointing in GOTD? They finished in the stats more or less where I expected. Either way though, I think Sora's team wins just due to natural character strength (heck, I even considered a KH > FFVIII upset in this bracket and chickened out at the last minute because no one was considering it).

Okay, all three of Sora, Dante, and Riku tanked last contest, but I kinda want to view losses to 4-seeded Nintendo characters in a different light than a loss to Ryu.

Yeah remember when Dante broke 80% in the first round and then was held under 60% by Tails? Oh my.

MMX guys > Mortal Kombat guys has been a mortal lock (pun intended?) since the contest began. All of those guys are very similar in where they draw most of their contest strength from (iconic appeal and character design), and then MMX the game would slaughter any Mortal Kombat (forget that MK2 won a match in BGE2009 while MMX didn't...).

I know that K. Rool is the main villain of all the Rare-developed DK platformers, but how prominent is he in those games? Too lazy to look it up on Super Mario Wiki.

Samus's performance against the FFVI guys was supposed to be disappointing? Quite frankly I was expecting worse. Also I thought we agreed in the stats topics that Samus was the easy favorite in R3 since most of us would take the FFVI guys over the RE guys, and that even otherwise, Samus still had plenty of breathing room. That said, I do agree with considering the FFVI guys to be the star, and it'll only be helped if Samus murdered the Bosses!

Also just to defend the Samus/Ridley rivalry, technically Ridley is meant to be Samus's rival - it's hinged in the series' overarching plot, and Ridley usually confronts Samus twice in every Metroid game he appears in. The fact that Ridley is considered to be the main villain of the series even though he's never the final boss (though he's usually the penultimate boss) does not help matters. The only caveat is that people don't play Metroid games for plot (at least, I hope no one does!).

My gut pick was actually to pick the Bosses to escape their division, but then I remembered three key things:

1) Not only is Samus easily the strongest of those four characters, but The Boss is easily the weakest of those four (I guess the counterpoint to this is that Samus and Ridley both draw most of their strength from Smash Bros., but meh).
2) Samus's rivalry spans 24 years and at least 7 games, while the Bosses' rivalry is in one seven-year old game (don't care if it just got a rerelease).
3) I picked Half-Life 2 > Metroid Prime last year, so I don't want to be snakebitten by the Metroid series again. To be fair, every Metroid entity has exceeded expectations in our last two contests, although then again, perhaps Other M hype played a huge role (that game was more hyped than any other Wii game that wasn't Zelda or Smash, after all).

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The Show with another clutch performance!

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This was my first time listening to The Show and now I can't wait for more.

You guys made some excellent points and have gotten me excited over the Trainers vs. Fighters match. I'm one of the few perfect battlers remaining and as it stands right now, I have the Fighters winning the match. I may change it to the Trainers because Big Bob made a great argument; definitely need to think carefully over this one.

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So much for CT > CV (Was that even discussed?). CT looks pretty bad here.

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BlAcK TuRtLe is a black turtle.

I dunno. 51.5% on Portal characters sounds a lot better to me than 56% on Phoenix Wright characters...

...oh, whatever. I still want to bank on Frog next round, but I just don't know.

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From: tazzyboyishere | #081
So much for CT > CV (Was that even discussed?). CT looks pretty bad here.

Most people are siding with Alucard now. Frog/Magus was the favorite pre-contest though.

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I switched to Frog/Magus only because of The Show (plus CT fanboyism).

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Well, I've now been convinced to take Sora in my battle bracket, so when I drop down to 0 points it;s going to be your faults.

Why did we even give Dante any consideration?

Right now that upsets seems to hinge entirely on anti-KH votes. If the KH guys lose, I'm calling for Cloud's head.

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You know, I should probably listen to this sometime.

It's been a busy week!

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Okay, now that I've actually got some free time to listen to this, let's do it!

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Before I forget, just wanna say: Big Bob is an awesome dude. It was great having him on The Show and getting a chance to talk to him for a bit. We haven't really interacted much on the board, but he's a fun guy. Too bad he couldn't hang around for the entire Show.

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"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

Nintendoboy375 posted...
This was my first time listening to The Show and now I can't wait for more.

Another satisfied customer!

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I'd search B8 for The Show if I were you. *wink wink*

No Pokefear here!

...Maybe I should have some.

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"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

This was pretty fun to listen to, although it probably helped that I haven't listened to an episode of the show since before round 1 ended (I tend to enjoy something more when I don't do it so often).

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HM and I will be comforting each other during the board vote, don't worry.

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My nostalgia may be my undoing.

As usual.

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Note: Threats against Ngamer's person by me should not be taken seriously

Yes, not to be taken seriously.

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I didn't mention this on The Show, but I feel like "RIVALRY FACTOR" could help the Bosses here. Samus/Ridley is obviously not benefiting from it, and a lot of people like The Bosses, so it may be an advantage to them.

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WARNING SALVOS the best

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"So cold. I am always by your side."
"There ain't no gettin' off of this train we on!"

I mentioned it in the other thread, but Samus vs. Bosses will probably be Metroid Prime vs. Half-Life 2 all over again.

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Currently Playing - StarCraft: Brood War

The good news is that a 24-hour Prime/HL2 match probably helps out HL2 a lot!

Also, I consider my Terra/Kefka rant the high point of my Show career to this point. I was actually pretty pleased with how that one came out despite the fact that I came up with most of that on the fly!

yoblazer forgetting Raiden/Vamp's names was awesome, by the way. Trying hard not to laugh the whole time he was messing up there.

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When discussing the future of the contests, I think sometimes Allen tries too hard to keep the contests "fresh." I feel like he may think that he has to keep mixing things up in order to "sustain" interest, even though we've seen that people still care enough to vote in straightforward Character Battles and Games Contest. We've also seen these "specialized" contest ideas haven't turned out all that great overall either.

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