Board 8 > Bokonon_Lives' First-Time Playthrough of Final Fantasy Tactics (cont.) SPOILERS!

(+) Yeah! (+)

SPOILERS FOR THIS WHOLE TOPIC





The original topic:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60170652

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH

Play Earthbound

--
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

Bokonon get ready for one of the most punishing/annoying fights in the game.

Although with Brokeandu it probably won't be bad at all.

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Murond Death City

I had an extra Black Robe but not an extra Power Sleeve; Ramza is stuck with a Carabini Mail. The ninjas get to move before any of my characters, so they do a little damage, but on Orlandu's first move he one-shots the boss.

You know, I could resolve to just not use Orlandu. On my next playthrough, I'm probably not going to use any of the special characters, just Ramza and the normal randomly-named people. At this point, though, nobody else is high enough in level, so I'm just gonna use him 'til the end.

Lost Sacred Precincts

Balk inflict's Don't Act on Ramza. A chemist shoots Orlandu. Beowulf hits Balk with Drain. Agrias hits him with Carve Model. Orlandu injures him with Lightning Stab. Balk retreats, gaining HP from moving, and misses Orlandu with Arm Aim. One of the dragons kills Agrias with Triple Thunder. Stella's Demi spell misses Balk. Damn! Now I have to cross the bridge to reach him.

The Chemist gives Balk an X-Potion. Time to kill dragons. Orlandu hits two with Lightning Stab, killing one. Balk shoots Stella, who Regens. One dragon kills Beowulf with Triple Flame, and another kills Stella with Triple Thunder. Oh god, did I really screw up this fight?

A Dark Behemoth uses Sudden Cry on Orlandu, killing him. Yep. Yep I did screw it up.

The Chemist and Balk each shoot Ramza, and then one of the dragons kills him with Triple Flame. Whoops.

All right, mulligan.

Lost Sacred Precincts, Take 2

Balk shoots Ramza. Good - none of that Arm Aim crap. The chemist shoots Ramza and kills him. Triple Flame kills Orlandu. Agrias kills the Dark Behemoth with Crush Punch. Balk is overconfident hops onto my side of the crack and shoots Stella. Beowulf Raises Ramza, and Stella's Raise spell MISSES Orlandu.

Triple Flame kills Agrias. The chemist shoots and kills Ramza. Balk kills Stella. Triple Flame kills Beowulf.

Oh man. This is annoying. An attack that presumably is supposed to hit 3 times in 3 random squares should not hit the 1 square my character is in twice EVERY time.

Lost Sacred Precincts, Take 3

I put Orlandu and Agrias in the first Squad this time so they can actually maybe hit Balk.

Balk seems to not move forward as much as usual, and he shoots Orlandu. Orlandu's Holy Explosion damages Balk and kills a dragon. The chemist raises the dragon with a Phoenix Down. Finally I get lucky and a Triple Flame attack doesn't hit Orlandu at all. But it doesn't really matter, because Agrias decides Orlandu needs to take one for the team - her Holy Explosion kills both Orlandu and Balk in one go.

Well there you have it. The difference between Orlandu/Agrias and Not Orlandu/Agrias. Potentially frustrating battle becomes cake.

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH

I've beaten Earthbound before. Great game. Also, it's a different subgenre. I mostly picked this game because of my love for turn-based tactical games.

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH

From: Bokonon_Lives | #004
Orlandu's first move he one-shots the boss

Kletian is hilarious like this.

--
No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

Graveyard of Airships

Ha! Not a Final Fantasy game without Airships, is it?

Time to defeat Vormav's demon form. Looks awesome IMO. He begins charging. Orlandu hits him with Holy Explosion. Quake hits everyone but Orlandu, and Stella is dead. Ramza gets off a Wave Fist and Agrias a Holy Explosion. Hashmalum begins charging again, and again Orlandu is next to act, so Holy Explosion kills him. Yeah, the latter part of this game would definitely be more fun without Orlandu.

Sad ending but again expected. Got a cool new sword, too.

Graveyard of Airships (Same Name, Different Fight!) - *SPOILERS*

What the heck? So St. Ajora resurrects using Alma's body.... but Alma appears next to her anyway? I..... Sure, whatever.

Okay, so Ajora's demon form is named Altima. And looks like I'm fighting the boss of the game, or near enough. Pretty badass.

Orlandu uses Lightning Stab. It kills two demons and damages Altima. Altima kills Alma (love her attack animation). Ramza punches Altima. Agrias uses Holy Explosion. Stella casts Haste on Agrias, Beowulf and herself. Orlandu takes out the last two demon mooks with another Lightning Stab. Beowulf Raises Alma. Agrias uses another Holy Explosion.

And... that's it?

...NOPE. Not even a little. Holy **** balls.

I don't even understand this thing's stats. The game tells me Beowulf's Drain ability will deal 779 damage (he's usually pretty pathetic damage-wise with these abilities), but he misses. The game tells me Stella's Demi spell will also deal 779 damage. but she misses too. Orlandu's Holy Explosion only deals 494. Alma puts up an Mbarrier on herself. Ramza punches Altima for 192.

Altima raises her faith by 3. OH, I think I get it. Her Faith must be off the charts; magic attacks deal extra damage! I didn't know Beowulf's abilities counted as magic, but makes total sense they would be. Agrias and Orlandu each use Holy Explosion. Beowulf gets off a Drain attack - it deals 779 damage as indicated. Amazing. Altima's faith goes up by another 3.

Altima attacks a charging Stella, killing her. It might've been a crit. Alma puts an Mbarrier on Ramza. Agrias uses Holy Explosion; Ramza punches Altima. Orlandu uses Holy Explosion, and Altima dies.

"More..... power......." - I can't tell if she's exploding or turning into a THIRD form! But - the game tells me I've reached the ending.

*watches the ending*

Maaaaan. Not bad. Not bad.

What do I even say now? Fantastic game. Not very well-balanced, but I hear that's what the fan mods are for. And I glanced at the Challenge FAQ - lots of replayability in this thing.

Thanks all for following along and for all your comments! Now what are the things you've been keeping your trap shut about and haven't told me yet? :-) Also, how the hell do I get Cloud? (I know, I know, check the FAQ... but hey, open discussion time, anything goes.)

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH

The reason Drain/Demi type spells do so much damage to Altima is because they're percentage based. When you're fighting ordinary enemies that other units can kill in one or two hits, an attack that deals 1/4 (or 1/3, I can't remember) the max HP of its target is pretty meh, but when you're fighting a final boss with 2000ish HP, they're pretty spiffy.

--
Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.

What are your thoughts on the ending?

--
From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch

Also, how the hell do I get Cloud?

Killing Dycedarg/Adramelk got you the Capricorn Zodiac Stone; bring it to Goug for a cutscene. Then head up to Zarghidas Trade City to get Cloud. (Also, set someone up to have high Jump and Move-Find Item and bring them to Bervenia Volcano. Cloud's skillset only works when he has the Materia Blade equipped, and it's hidden atop the volcano itself.)

--
I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer.

From: Bokonon_Lives | #007
Thanks all for following along and for all your comments! Now what are the things you've been keeping your trap shut about and haven't told me yet? :-) Also, how the hell do I get Cloud? (I know, I know, check the FAQ... but hey, open discussion time, anything goes.)

You gotta stop by Goug after you clear Igros I think. Basically, the different Zodiac stones you get power different machines that Mustadio's dad finds, and one of them pulls Cloud in from another dimension. After you trigger this cutscene you can go to where you bought the flower (assuming you DID buy it) and you'll get in one fight and afterwards he'll be recruited... at level 1.

There's also the Deep Dungeon which is a 10-floor bonus dungeon with fairly difficult enemies. Also, each battlefield is pitch-black. The only thing you can see are characters unless you're doing a spell animation. You gotta go to Warjilis Trade City to open it up.

You steered away from magic as most newbies tend to do. I imagine in your case it's since you ended up using all the swordskillers. When you have unevadable, instant, ranged, multi-targeting, powerful abilities.... yeah, it's nice.

You did quite well for your first time through. You figured out a great way to take on Wiegraf just through trying things out and realizing what was important. There's a few mechanics things that you're still learning, but that's to be expected. I really want to see you go through LFT, but there's plenty you have to discover in vanilla so I guess I won't be seeing that any time soon. The main thing I saw you doing was trying to mix character roles which doesn't tend to end well (e.g. Ramza Monk with Black Magic). Generally things go best if you take a "carrier" class (one with good stats and/or equipment options) and pair it with a strong skillset from another job. Monk can't carry Black Magic well at all due to their poor MA, so it's pretty much a waste. Later on you seemed to be catching onto this though. This is why Agrias is a lot better as a Geomancer -- it's such a better carrier class than Holy Knight.

--
No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

From: MalcolmMasher | #010
Killing Dycedarg/Adramelk got you the Capricorn Zodiac Stone; bring it to Goug for a cutscene. Then head up to Zarghidas Trade City to get Cloud. (Also, set someone up to have high Jump and Move-Find Item and bring them to Bervenia Volcano. Cloud's skillset only works when he has the Materia Blade equipped, and it's hidden atop the volcano itself.)

Oh, right, I forgot about the Volcano. It makes it even more of a hassle to make Cloud useful. Even if you do use him, he's a gimmick character with two useful abilities and two very situational ones -- the rest are near useless due to how long it takes for them to charge.

--
No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

The reason Drain/Demi type spells do so much damage to Altima is because they're percentage based.

Ohhhh. I'm used to Demi being percentage-based in the FF games, but Drain threw me off. Thanks.

What are your thoughts on the ending?

Oh, god. I'm glad you asked, because yesterday I decided not to watch through the credits, but when I saw your question I reloaded and watched the after-the-credits cutscene, and that changes everything.

Firstly, I thought Balmafula was already dead, but I guess not.

So many people die in this game (it's such an opera) that I honestly believed it when they said Ramza and Alma are dead. It almost seemed fitting. Delita, a commoner, married Ovelia and became King, probably the first King who was a "man of the people" - the member of the last of the Beoulves who will be most remembered is probably Dycedarg for the atrocities he committed, making the Beoulves a black stain on nobility, so the end of the Beoulve line was symbolic of the dawn of a new age where Delita will presumably promote equality and try to remove any kind of status that people get born into.

The fact that Ramza and Alma survived is kinda nice because most people don't like an ending quite as dark as it would've been without that - but keeping them dead would've been a much bolder move and also would've made a lot more sense, seeing as we have no idea how they escaped Hell.

Presumably something about the death of Altima created some kind of temporary dimensional jump that they rode off from the airship - or, when Altima was trying to get "more power" at the end there, what we really saw was her absorbing the entire dimension of Hell, so Ramza and Alma got sort of shunted back to reality. The thing is, they didn't give us *anything* to really go off of there; it's all just aimless theories. So what we're really left with is the sequence of events from the perspective of Olan, who by now sees them as almost these mythical, larger-than-life heroes, now finished with their calling and off to live their life away from the eyes of the people. Which is also kinda cool, and not altogether unfitting.

I really liked the bit about Olan compiling this story and being executed for it, then Alazlam recovering it and releasing it. Because Alazlam appeared in the "Person" category of the Brave Story section of the menu, I just assumed he was living at the same time as everyone else, but this does add something to the story.

I have mixed feelings on the epilogue. One of my minor gripes with the ending before it was that Delita, for all his good intentions, did go a little mad with power and was acting as though people were expendable, just like everyone else who was vying for the position of King. I didn't necessarily want to see him get his comeuppance, but either he needed to get redeemed, or the game needed to lay the cold truth on us that ruthless people acting in a gray moral area are sometimes necessary, because there's rarely such a thing as a truly good leader, and Delita was the lesser of all evils, bringing about an age that was better than the alternatives but still imperfect and nowhere near making up for the war leading up to it - but an age that at least was peaceful and progressive, so that is the cost.

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH

Instead........ we're reminded that this game is very opera-like - Delita is wounded (possibly killed) by the love of his life, and he lives to see her die at his hands too. All Delita's work, all his sins and atrocities, the sacrifice of his soul in the name of becoming possibly the best King the realm has seen in generations, is for nothing, because Ovelia has seen what he's done and now fears for her life because of it. The world can't help but fall into chaos again at this point. And Delita's last words were chilling... He was looking back on his life and all the things he did and people he lost, realizing fully that he's just hit absolute rock bottom... and his final thought is for his old friend Ramza - "what did you get?" Like it would be some solace if at least he got something out of this whole mess.

I think the moral here is that it's impossible to win in politics without playing dirty - so dirty that if any good and honest person, even the love of your life, were to see it out of context, they'd decry you as one of the worst human beings on the planet.

So, not an ending I'd ever expect to see from a Final Fantasy game, one that ends in tragedy for pretty much everyone, and a kingdom once again on the brink of dissolution. But yeah. Pretty damn good.

Killing Dycedarg/Adramelk got you the Capricorn Zodiac Stone; bring it to Goug for a cutscene.

AAAAHHHH! I completely forgot killing Dycedarg gave me a Stone! Of course I had to bring it to Goug! I should have recognized that pattern by now. From there I'm sure I would have figured out the rest. Damnit, so close. (Ness: I already bought the flower, already released Cloud from his machine, and proceeded to scour every dot on the map for him - but this was before Igros.) In any case, sounds like I wouldn't have used Cloud this playthrough anyway.

You steered away from magic as most newbies tend to do. I imagine in your case it's since you ended up using all the swordskillers. When you have unevadable, instant, ranged, multi-targeting, powerful abilities.... yeah, it's nice.

Yeah, those abilities are ridiculous, but something I kind of downplayed towards the end was how much I was loving my Time Mage. It really doesn't take much time to unlock it, so I could have been using one from the beginning and never taken her out of it, so by now I'd know Meteor and all that good stuff. Haste and Slow are so awesome, I almost wonder how I beat the first half of the game without them. Beowulf was also really the closest thing to my first serious venture into status-afflicting spells. I like them. And I probably would have kept using my Wizard, too, but she would consistently die in one hit, and her damage was starting to be less than what my swordsmen could dish out with no charge time. I think I'd really get a kick out of Calculator, but it probably changes the game too much because every turn you need to check EVERYONE'S stats to make sure you're hitting more enemies than allies.

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH

The main thing I saw you doing was trying to mix character roles which doesn't tend to end well (e.g. Ramza Monk with Black Magic). Generally things go best if you take a "carrier" class (one with good stats and/or equipment options) and pair it with a strong skillset from another job. Monk can't carry Black Magic well at all due to their poor MA, so it's pretty much a waste. Later on you seemed to be catching onto this though. This is why Agrias is a lot better as a Geomancer -- it's such a better carrier class than Holy Knight.

Yep. I absolutely figured this out by the end, though obviously it took me a long time. The fight with Wiegraf was where I really started looking at what stats you get from being a certain class - it was the main reason I picked Squire and one of the first times I strongly considered Geomancer. And yeah, once Agrias lost some equipment, Geomancer was first on my list to try, and I loved it so much I never took her back out of it. The whole "Monk with Black Magic" thing was because I was trying to be a "one-man team" - infinitely versatile with high stats in every area. I assume that end result is more or less reachable, just not with these classes. Probably with something like Geomancer.

But after a while I did realize my poor M-AT was making that pretty unplayable (I was using Black Magic as more of a last resort in case Ramza couldn't reach anybody, kind of like a poor-man's Elemental ability set, and it was occasionally useful, just not optimized). And then I started playing with Squire, and I realized it fit too well for me to want to go anywhere else.

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH

Oh... I got mistaken on the order of events. You don't need to return to Goug with the new stone if Cloud is already released -- he'll show up in Zarghidas after Igros. For some reason you do need to clear that series of fights. No wonder you didn't quite figure this one out. That's a stupid flag since there's no indication it changes things.

Some people interpret the ending as Olan hallucinating and Ramza/Alma actually being dead. I like this ending more (since like you, I think it's more powerful if they end up dead), but there's nothing really to support it. The argument is that Balmafula doesn't acknowledge them, but she doesn't say anything through the cutscene anyway (which has led some people to claim that her tongue got slit by Delita when he came upon her earlier). It's... not a very strong argument.

If they're alive, people generally say they escaped by using the stones. Somewhere the game says that when all 12 stones are together a miracle can occur, so that leads to possibilities.

--
No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

Interesting theories.. I'll have to think about it.

In the other topic, somebody recommended an Oracle SCC. I'm going to start that today. If I do a playthrough topic of that, should I move it to the FFT board, or would people still be interested here, or what?

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH

From: Bokonon_Lives | #017
In the other topic, somebody recommended an Oracle SCC. I'm going to start that today. If I do a playthrough topic of that, should I move it to the FFT board, or would people still be interested here, or what?

I'd be fine with it here. If you go to the FFT board I don't think it'd go too well. The community has changed a lot since the game came out, and now it's mostly pretty hardcore fans that are all into modding and stuff, and according to them if you ever die in Vanilla FFT it means you're a moron and you should go back to playing Barbie: Super Model.

Not to say they're all like that, and maybe I'm exaggerating to have you keep it here!

I still don't like SCCs though. The fun of FFT is the huge amount of customization, and limiting your entire party to one class really takes the wind out of its sails. Oracle is probably the most interesting of classes, but even then, you have 5 identical units (except for Ramza and maybe Zodiac) and you keep those units for the entire game. If you think you're up to it, go for it! Learning to play without revival is always tough. =P

--
No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

SCCs are fun imo, but you might want to try another regular playthrough just using generics this time. Either way is awesome though, that's the strength of this game!

--
From his looks Magus is Macho Man Randy Savage as an anime zombie. The black wind howls, and one of you will snap into a Slim Jim ooh yeeeah! -sonicblastpunch

Hmm. Yeah, I was considering a playthrough with only generics. All right, I think you guys are right, I'll do that first. The first half of the playthrough will be different enough because I'll likely be using different builds, and the second half will be different because it will actually be a challenge. >_>

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH

congrats on finishing the game!

--
Black Turtle won the Guru Contest.

Thank ya sir! :-)

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH

Seems like a waste of a topic, but I decided a second playthrough deserves its own. So here's the link:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/60579900

--
bokonon get your sense-making the **** out of this topic now - Cat1001
Brawl FC: 1461-9803-2942 /// X-Box Live Gamertag: AGGGH