-Matches will last exactly 24 hours. Votes after that much time has elapsed will not be counted, even if a new topic hasn't gone up yet. -This is a contest to determine which character is the most *powerful*. Vote only for the character you think would win in a fight, not the one who's funnier, cooler, or sexier. If you don't do that I can't count your vote. -BOLD YOUR VOTE. Unbolded votes will NOT be counted. -Rallying is allowed. Alts are not. -Fights will take place in a neutral terrain. This does not necessarily mean a *featureless* terrain: assume that both characters will have a chance to use all of their skills to the fullest here, barring setting-specific abilities and anything that requires the presence of multiple enemies (but see below). -Characters start the fight alone. They don't bring allies with them, like Kerrigan and the Zerg Swarm for instance. Summons are allowed though, provided they're brought once combat has started. -Fighters retain their usual personalities. They won't fight to kill unless that's their MO, and won't spam their best attacks to win unless, again, that's how they act in their original media. -You don't have to justify your vote, but it helps. If you feel like you can add something to the debate, go right ahead! -Seriously, BOLD THE VOTE. So important it bears repeating. -Bracket Link, for viewing past results and future matches: http://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?&tid=408528&tclass=
Past Results:
Lord Foul's powerful magic spells and deceitful ways were superior to Alex Mercer's biomass-fueled abilities, allowing the Despiser to achieve an easy victory of 12-2.
(3) Sovereign From Mass Effect, the Sovereign is a massive dreadnaught ship, sapient and capable of mass destruction. Also known as Nazara, it is equipped with immensely powerful Mass Effect fields, strong enough to enable it to land on a planet without difficulty. The Sovereign is equipped with durable kinetic shields, capable of withstanding extremely heavy fire from other ships without suffering so much as a scratch. It is armed with a potent main gun mounted along its spine, capable of destroying dreadnaughts with a single shot, as well as other, lesser weapons. Its two-kilometer long body is crewed by Indoctrinated sapients, which are little more than a shell of their former selves. Notable among them is Saren Arterius, the rogue Spectre, a skilled warrior and biotic who has also been reprogrammed by Sovereign to be fanatically loyal to him. Should Saren die, the Sovereign is capable of reanimating him through his extensive cybernetic implants, using his corpse as a powerful host body.
(6) Luke Skywalker From Star Wars, Luke Skywalker is one of the most powerful Jedi Knights of all time. Able to tap into the Force, the life energy that permeates all things, Luke exhibits this connection through telepathic and telekinetic abilities. He fights with a lightsaber, an energy-based weapon that can instantly cut through most objects, in addition to both his natural and trained Force abilities.
Luke can use Force Sense to judge positions of objects and future movements of people; his Telekinesis has been so strong as to fight the pull of a miniature black hole and crush spaceships, as well as teleport objects around; his use of Force Defend was once described as rooting him in the center of the Force itself, becoming the essence of the immovable object; and his skill with a lightsaber allowed him to cut through countless warriors as well as Yuuzhan Vong Slayers, beings bred and trained solely to kill Jedi. His signature Electric Judgment move consists of green sparks that can disable or kill opponents instantly.
Before we begin the proceedings, let me just say I have to tip my hat to the RNG. It has a wonderful sense of humor. Now, bring on the arguments!
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EU Luke. Movie Luke has no Electric Judgement, of course!
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From: Pirateking2000 | #009 Does Luke have the Millennium Falcon?
Cause that would be ****ing awesome with him solo Force Flying it to fight Sovereign lmao
No Falcon. Luke is alone here. Also, Sovereign would likely start grounded for neutrality's sake. It could take to the skies later on though...
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How fast is Luke going to be able to dodge something? I don't know an exact figure on the speed Sovereign's weapons fire at, but it's pretty damn fast and I doubt anyone would argue Luke would be dead if he took a hit from one of those shots.
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
From: Chrono1219 | #013 Will sovereign be sending in little minions at Luke too?
Define little minions. It has its indoctrinated crewmen and Saren/Sovereign Avatar. The rest is debatable as I covered what I could with my knowledge of Sovereign. If I missed something, it's up to voters to point it out!
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Falcon isnt really Luke's thing anyways, that and we dont want more Tardis shenaigans <_<
No idea how MF could reach Tardis Hax status unless it goes (Luke lightspeeds away and thinks of a way to win then comes back with an army) shenanigans
If no MF I could see Sovereign chilling sending out loads of Husks / Indoctrinated soldiers which Luke promptly stomps.
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XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2 "There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama
Yeah currently leaning Sovereign unless there is some kill switch Luke can make his way toward (I know Luke could deal / slaughter the Husks + Indoctrinated etc but Sovereign is still a problem)
Granted Sovereign being arrogant would probably just chill until **** starts to go down (ME3 might reveal a kill switch but atm dunno)
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XBL GT: Demon Ninja X2 "There comes a time in every man's or woman's life where they have to make **** up to cover their ass." - Hazama
From: Panthera | #019 I'm thinking that until such time as anyone can show how Luke might not die as soon as he gets shot at,
Sovereign
gets my vote
Luke can shut down Sovereign's weaponry though. One of the classic Jedi powers is ****ing with tech. What I'm more interested in is if he can punch through the kinetic shields or will have to improvise, and if he can take on the whole crew and the Sovereign Avatar after making his waty in.
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Based on descriptions of the Star Dreadnought Executor, the Imperial Star Destroyer/Star Cruiser cut-off point lay somewhere around a length of 3.8 kilometers
Starkiller, who's a wimp compared to Luke, pulled one of these down. It's a fair guess that Luke can chuck Sovereign around. The question is if that will HURT it.
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Wow. Can this match be any more relevant to my interests, I wonder?
EU Luke
Oh nevermind, the only post-ROTJ novels I've read are the Thrawn Trilogy and the tidbits I've heard from the books thereafter hasn't exactly intrigued me.
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From: KanzarisKelshen | #023 Luke can shut down Sovereign's weaponry though. One of the classic Jedi powers is ****ing with tech. What I'm more interested in is if he can punch through the kinetic shields or will have to improvise, and if he can take on the whole crew and the Sovereign Avatar after making his waty in.
Reaper technology has shown to be pretty hard to **** with though, since no one can really figure it out beyond what they wanted to be learned, EDI can manage to deal with their second hand stuff but s/he/it was designed based on stuff recovered from the wreckage of Sovereign anyway, so Reaper tech is definitely going to be pretty resistant to being shut down (hell, it can remain active even after millions of years of floating around with the bulk of itself more or less destroyed). Plus Luke trying to deal with Sovereign through the Force is probably going to be bringing himself in touch with the indoctrination field as well, which isn't an easy thing to deal with.
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We clasped our hands, our hands in praise of a conquerors right to tyranny
EU Luke is a beast. Someone else pointed out how Starkiller yanked down the Star Destroyer. Luke is way, way above Starkiller. Granted, the SD was already crashing and Starkiller just guided it, but still.
EU Luke is also insanely fast. I have no doubt he could dodge Sovereign's fire.
Sovereign's arrogance would cause him trouble here, I think. Luke's gonna seem insanely powerful and we know the Reapers are interested in humanity. With Luke firing off Force powers that aren't anything Sovereign can recognize, I think he might try to capture Luke. I mean, the Reapers understand biotics, but the Force would be completely foreign to them.
The biggest thing here is that Luke is very skilled at planning on the fly.
Sovereign, by the way. I see no evidence that Luke could replicate the damage, inside and out, that finally did Sovereign in. Killing him just isn't a one man job
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Panthera posted... Plus Luke trying to deal with Sovereign through the Force is probably going to be bringing himself in touch with the indoctrination field as well, which isn't an easy thing to deal with.
Indoctrination won't do a thing to Luke. He's not only come back from the Dark Side, but he also deals with its tempation every single day. And he's got what are probably the strongest mental shields in Force user history.
And just tossing Sovereign around through the Force doesn't open him up to anything. I'm betting Luke's initial move will be to reach out with the Force to investigate Sovereign. He'd feel the indoctrination field, then pull back and just use offensive abilities that don't have anything to do with interfacing mentally. Luke's also noted for being able to completely withdraw and shield his Force presence from detection, so I really don't think indoctrination is gonna come into play here.
Destroying oversized and seemingly invincible vehicles of mass destruction is what Luke lives for.
This post instantly convinced me
Luke Skywalker
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I was always under the impression that when Saren died, Sovereign devoted most of his attention to trying to kill Shepard, and when Shep's team stopped the Saren corpse, it sent Sovereign reeling long enough for the fleet to attack.
Regardless, the Husks and whatnot are nothing to Luke, Saren's not even a threat. And I do think that Luke can survive long enough to put Sovereign down with a shatterpoint. Or he could Fold Space pieces of him away.
From: Murphiroth | #033 I was always under the impression that when Saren died, Sovereign devoted most of his attention to trying to kill Shepard, and when Shep's team stopped the Saren corpse, it sent Sovereign reeling long enough for the fleet to attack.
Murphiroth is correct. For those who for whatever reason never pieced that together, a recent tweet from series lead writer Mac Walters confirmed it.
I don't have it handy right now but I can fetch if given enough time, if requested. I'd hope on B8 most people would take my word at face value, especially since as some of you know I've done some moderating over there on BSN's chatroom.
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From: Jeff Zero | #025 Wow. Can this match be any more relevant to my interests, I wonder?
EU Luke
Oh nevermind, the only post-ROTJ novels I've read are the Thrawn Trilogy and the tidbits I've heard from the books thereafter hasn't exactly intrigued me.
New Jedi Order is all worth it IMO. You should give it a read, plus it's where most of Luke's super hax showings come from, like the Green Lightning.
From: Panthera | #027 Reaper technology has shown to be pretty hard to **** with though, since no one can really figure it out beyond what they wanted to be learned, EDI can manage to deal with their second hand stuff but s/he/it was designed based on stuff recovered from the wreckage of Sovereign anyway, so Reaper tech is definitely going to be pretty resistant to being shut down (hell, it can remain active even after millions of years of floating around with the bulk of itself more or less destroyed). Plus Luke trying to deal with Sovereign through the Force is probably going to be bringing himself in touch with the indoctrination field as well, which isn't an easy thing to deal with.
Luke could really care less about the Indoctrination Field. If there's one area where I'd straight-up take him over the Sovereign, it's in a battle of minds. He's in incredible control of himself, and no matter how long you see this fight lasting I doubt he'll be affected much by it. I'm really curious about Sovereign's shields. How well do they hold to persistent stress, AKA being drilled through the ground for instance? What about shortcircuiting some of the Sovereign's systems?
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From: Murphiroth | #031 Indoctrination won't do a thing to Luke. He's not only come back from the Dark Side, but he also deals with its tempation every single day. And he's got what are probably the strongest mental shields in Force user history.
So far the best response anyone has managed in resistance to indoctrination was to let themselves be able to take control for a minute or so, once. That's Matriarch Benezia, who wouldn't have been indoctrinated fully because it would make her useless. There doesn't seem to be much to fully fight it unless the Reaper is holding the effect back to keep you useful. Although after reading up on it a bit it seems as though the timeframe necessary for indoctrination to take enough effect to matter is way longer than this fight would ever last, so it shouldn't play a factor anyway.
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You really don't get how powerful Luke is mentally. It would not affect him in the slightest.
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So if Luke kills Saren, which is likely, and Sovereign possesses the corpse, Luke has a few options. He can kill it again, which will knock Sovereign for a loop. We don't know for how long.
Or he can try to avoid the corpse and try to find a way to shut down or destroy Sovereign himself. Since most of his attention would be in Saren's body I'm not sure Sovereign himself will be moving too much. And Luke would definitely be able to sense that Sovereign had transferred into the corpse.
Then again, Sovereign may not do that and instead might just let Saren die. Who knows? His whole thing with Shepard is that Shepard's team was actually messing up his plans, which ticked him off.
Yeah, I'll second the NJO recommendation. Great series, especially since it focuses on more than just the big three.
And honestly, Matriarch Benezia is nothing compared to Luke. Luke's the most powerful Force user ever. As in no one has ever been and no one will ever be equal to him. I wouldn't even put Benezia on someone like Jax Pavan's level. Indoctrination is a nonfactor here.
That's the problem I'm seeing. Luke has to get *in* to Sovereign, then go find and kill Saren, and then kill him again, and then generate an attack at least as big as the Alliance Fleet and the Normandy combined had to put Sovereign down. Without dying during any of this
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From: DeathChicken | #041 That's the problem I'm seeing. Luke has to get *in* to Sovereign, then go find and kill Saren, and then kill him again, and then generate an attack at least as big as the Alliance Fleet and the Normandy combined had to put Sovereign down. Without dying during any of this
And avoid weapons that fire liquid metal at near-light speed, which is probably a pretty big task, especially since Sovereign can be firing multiple shots at once.
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
From: DeathChicken | #041 That's the problem I'm seeing. Luke has to get *in* to Sovereign, then go find and kill Saren, and then kill him again, and then generate an attack at least as big as the Alliance Fleet and the Normandy combined had to put Sovereign down. Without dying during any of this
Killing Saren is sort of just the win condition we know about. It's very likely that Luke could just rip the Sovereign to shreds from the inside and that'd do the trick, the Sovereign Avatar merely works as a way to KO the Sovereign briefly so he can set up something.
PS: Note that I am stating that it's likely that mass destruction would kill the Sovereign, not that said mass destruction is very likely to happen.
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DeathChicken posted... That's the problem I'm seeing. Luke has to get *in* to Sovereign, then go find and kill Saren, and then kill him again, and then generate an attack at least as big as the Alliance Fleet and the Normandy combined had to put Sovereign down. Without dying during any of this
Shatterpoint.
Or he could just TK and rip him in two, or crush him.
Or he could Fold Space him in half.
There's a lot more Luke could do then just running around slashing, and he doesn't even have to go inside to do it. Though from the inside he'd only have to face the inner defenses and not giant cannons and whatnot.
Luke just fought and beat the Star Wars equivalent of an eldritch abomination in the most recent series, not once, but twice. Granted she managed to live but it's still impressive. He took down a being basically composed of pure Dark Side energy that the frigging Celestials locked up out of fear.
Sovereign's basically a Death Star combined with an eldritch abomination. Luke's got this.
DeathChicken posted... Sovereign, by the way. I see no evidence that Luke could replicate the damage, inside and out, that finally did Sovereign in. Killing him just isn't a one man job
This. So far as we know, Sovereign doesn't have a small thermal exhaust port leading directly to the reactor system. I don't know of any convincing way for Luke to not get shot by Sovereign, meanwhile killing Saren twice, and then somehow generating the destructive power of a whole star fleet to take Sovereign down. He's a powerful dude, but he's still just one dude.
Isn't Fold Space kind of still at the "small objects" level IIRC? As I recall discussion about it mentioned it was an all-new ability that Luke was only just now beginning to learn and that it hadn't reached crazy levels yet.
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From: Jeff Zero | #047 Alright. I'm mostly convinced here. The fact that I look like Mark Hamill has nothing to do with it anymore.
Luke Skywalker
You need to put up a picture of you posing like Luke Jeff. Finding Luke pics was a nightmare and every little bit helps! :P
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From: KanzarisKelshen | #049 You need to put up a picture of you posing like Luke Jeff. Finding Luke pics was a nightmare and every little bit helps! :P
XD I'll get on that.
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