As much as I give the game crap for certain things (lol Kefka), I'm actually rather fond of FFVI. So I tried picking it up again today, and I realized: I don't care about what's going on. I didn't care for the mediocre dialogue, the slooooooow pace... I mean, what happened to starting close to the action? Gameplay/town exploration was still a blast, but it really hampered my experience.
Does anyone else feel this way? Compare FFVI to, say, EarthBound, which is kinda exposition-heavy for the first ten minutes and then just lets the player go for about thirty hours. Nice! And it really plays to the strength of gaming- immersion, not storytelling.
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Without story all you're left with is gameplay, and that is rarely an RPG's strong suit.
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Well, DQV has a non-complicated story but its epic. Is that what you mean?
I haven't played that particular game, so I can't comment. What I'm getting at is that, for the most part, an RPG is better off steering clear of arduous dialogue/plot/exposition and focusing more on letting the player set his own pace.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.
So, you are arguing that because you do not enjoy a thing, there should be less of that thing and more of a thing you like? Because last time I checked there are people who would feel the exact opposite and the best course of action for a genre would be to have games high in story and also games high in immersion.
Hell, there are weird people who play games that are 99% text and 1% game; to each their own.
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This, but five is far too many, and the more ridiculous-sounding words count double, triple if they are used frequently or are central to the plot. Tales of Vesperia was a major offender.
Hell, there are weird people who play games that are 99% text and 1% game; to each their own.
Well sure, and I'm not arguing that I'm just hands-down right or anything like that; it's a matter of preference, and I'm just curious as to what B8's preferences are!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBpfwpOPXNc&NR=1&feature=fvwp I watch Planet Chasers Starlight Excellent all day, every day.
Both are fine. It's more important that whatever the game focuses on doing is done well. There bad RPGs with simple stories, and bad RPGs with complicated stories.
I can easily enjoy RPGs with simple and shallow plots if I like the gameplay. I guess because it doesn't get in the way. But RPGs with good gameplay but ridiculous and overbearing plots usually just become chores to play through. I often go through dialogue and cutscenes praying they'll end soon just so I can get on with the next dungeon. The Golden Sun games are a great example of the latter.
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I feel like a games story if fine as long as it keep me wanting to play to find out more, and not just seem like something I have to cycle text through. A lot of JRPGs take away character to promote some overthetop story, which should not happen. A game like Bioshock, where you slowy reveal information about the game world as you play is a great example of using story as an engine to get you to play.
this is true for most games. video games are meant to be played, not watched. having the gameplay constantly broken up by long cut scenes just takes you out of its world and makes you more cognizant of its ficticiousness, more game developers need to understand that narrative is something that should come from every part of the game, not just shoehorned into cutscenes.
Going to have to disagree. I pretty much play RPGs for the story and enjoy when there's plenty of focus on it and the characters. The ones with really little focus on story tend to be kind of boring to me.
swordz9 posted... Going to have to disagree. I pretty much play RPGs for the story and enjoy when there's plenty of focus on it and the characters. The ones with really little focus on story tend to be kind of boring to me.
this is why JRPGs are a dying genre btw, and it's frustrating because you play something like FFX where everything but the gameplay is really good but it's difficult to force yourself through it because they never really considered fun an objective while making it. almost at the end of this game now and I really WANT to like it but they make it so hard to enjoy -_-
Disagree. Gameplay in RPGs is boring, no exceptions.
Minimalism is usually amazing in videogames (and is ALWAYS ALWAYS associated with ART for some whatever reason, see SotC, Braid, Limbo, Ico, Journey) but for RPGs I don't think it works. Earthbound isn't even all that minimalist, if you ask me.
The best stories are told via gameplay, not via cutscenes. Unfortunately it's much harder to do it that way than with cutscenes so we don't see it often.
Imagine a game that manages to tell an interesting, rich and compelling story without any interruption of gameplay? Yeah.
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Minimalism is usually amazing in videogames (and is ALWAYS ALWAYS associated with ART for some whatever reason, see SotC, Braid, Limbo, Ico, Journey
because it's easier to appreciate a game that fully exploits its interactivity than a game that makes a mediocre attempt at being a TV show
kojima is the only one that consistently makes cutscene heavy games work and even he could stand to tone it down, it's no surprise MGS3 is so much better than MGS2 and 4...
Ayuyu posted... The best stories are told via gameplay, not via cutscenes. Unfortunately it's much harder to do it that way than with cutscenes so we don't see it often.
Imagine a game that manages to tell an interesting, rich and compelling story without any interruption of gameplay? Yeah.
Quick time events basically? The thing everyone hates.
Disagree. Gameplay in RPGs is boring, no exceptions.
Well, I think that's a pretty terrible opinion but it's certainly a valid one (I feel that way about gameplay in some genres too).
Makes me wonder why you play the games though. With very few exceptions, RPG stories aren't that great - they're matched by stories in many other genres these days. Unless you just really dig the types of tropes RPG stories are fond of (I don't!).
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metaIslugg posted... Ayuyu posted... The best stories are told via gameplay, not via cutscenes. Unfortunately it's much harder to do it that way than with cutscenes so we don't see it often.
Imagine a game that manages to tell an interesting, rich and compelling story without any interruption of gameplay? Yeah.
Quick time events basically? The thing everyone hates.
Nope just like this : Show, don't tell, don't need quick time events to do that !
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Best LPer ever, Gix ! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt5YKmP7ecY
Why do you think JRPGs are dying, idly? Pretty sure its sales are about where they've always been (certainly the big-name games are). I tend to agree it feels like there's been fewer RPGs this gen than last (although I only recently finally got a current-gen system besides the Wii so I haven't paid much attention; certainly the portables have done for for the genre in the meantime!), but the PS2 was just an incredible gen for their proliferation and the splitting of the console fanbase between NA and Japan has made it a bit harder for all developers who can't afford to develop cross-platform.
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NeoElfboy posted... Disagree. Gameplay in RPGs is boring, no exceptions.
Well, I think that's a pretty terrible opinion but it's certainly a valid one (I feel that way about gameplay in some genres too).
Makes me wonder why you play the games though. With very few exceptions, RPG stories aren't that great - they're matched by stories in many other genres these days. Unless you just really dig the types of tropes RPG stories are fond of (I don't!).
Yeah ya know thatmight have been a little harsh. It's rather enticing exploring a good battle system like the sphere grid for instance or fighting a boss battle. But what always ends up coming back to my mind is going around talking to NPCs and fighting random battles, which is some boring ass ****, and it's what you spend most of the time doing in these games anyway.
Liquid Wind posted... again, why JRPGs are dying. good story at the expense of gameplay doesn't work anymore because other forms have caught up on that front
"RPG" doesn't have to mean "linear as hell with turn based monotony that breaks the flow of exploration and sense of atmosphere" btw
RPGs usually try all different kinds of gameplay systems, actually. There aren't many high-profile games in the genre anymore, but gameplay is the one area where things are constantly changing - and not always for the better. Their stories have gotten considerably worse over time, though.