Current Events > Crunchyroll testing AI for subtitling

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/26/24081180/crunchyroll-president-purini-anime-funimation-shutdown-sony-merger-decoder-interview

With how stuff seems to be exponentially growing, it'll probably be viable in a few years.

Crunchyroll has always been a garbage tier service and always will be. Making millions of dollars and can't even pay translators properly

Theyll be using it for voice dubbing in no time. The tech is already there

Translator's note:

In the intricate world of chess, where strategy and tactics intertwine, **making an illegal move** can happen for various reasons. Let's explore some of them:

1. **Accidental Oversight**: Often, players unintentionally make illegal moves due to oversight or lack of awareness. Perhaps they didn't realize their king was in check or misunderstood a piece's allowed movements.

2. **Pressure and Nerves**: In high-stakes games, nerves can play tricks on even the most seasoned players. The pressure to perform well might lead to hasty decisions, resulting in an inadvertent illegal move.

3. **Complexity of Rules**: Chess has a plethora of rules governing piece movements, castling, en passant captures, and pawn promotion. Amidst this complexity, players might inadvertently violate a rule.

4. **Psychological Tactics**: Some players intentionally make illegal moves as a psychological ploy. They hope to confuse or distract their opponent, disrupting their focus and rhythm.

5. **Desperation**: When faced with a losing position, a player might resort to an illegal move out of desperation. They hope their opponent won't notice, or perhaps they're banking on insufficient mating material to salvage a draw.

Remember, the consequences of an illegal move vary:
- **First Offense**: The opponent gains extra time (two minutes in standard games, one minute in blitz).
- **Second Offense**: The player loses the game.
- **Insufficient Mating Material**: If the opponent lacks enough pieces to checkmate, the game is drawn.

So, whether accidental or strategic, illegal moves add an intriguing layer to the chess battlefield.

AI is the future we need to just get used to it.

AI subtitling won't be good ever for Japanese to English, but it could be a useful tool to get a quick rough draft for amateur translators to spruce up into being meaningful.

All according to keikaku

_Raich_ posted...

AI subtitling won't be good ever for Japanese to English, but it could be a useful tool to get a quick rough draft for amateur translators to spruce up into being meaningful.

But it would help somewhat to avoid shit like this

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/2000121-anime-and-manga-other-titles/80661821

Eh, as much as I hate AI, I understand using it as a tool for translations. An actual human translator should look over the AIs translation. While Im sure AI can do a decent job of basic translation, a literal translation does not always translate the meaning or context of what is spoken.
Admittedly, the bulk of anime Crunchyroll acquires are dime-a-dozen isekai and battle shonen. For that bulk, I doubt most need any special review.

megamanfreakXD posted...

But it would help somewhat to avoid shit like this

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/2000121-anime-and-manga-other-titles/80661821

The op of that topic is a god damn embarrassment to the human race

AI can basically already do the easy part of translating, the literal translation, but the actual hard part, localizing, is such a nuanced, culturally-dependent skill that I have to imagine it's still a long way off.

AI subtitling currently can't do English to English reliably. This will be a little ways out, but would very much be a useful tool to help a human do it

MangaBroski posted...

I understand using it as a tool for translations. An actual human translator should look over the AIs translation.

As someone who does writing, I don't want to be correcting someone else's work. I'd rather produce my own from the ground up. This stifles the creative process.

And even if it didn't, a human needs to make sure it isn't crap, anyway. Just have the human do it.

CyricZ posted...

As someone who does writing, I don't want to be correcting someone else's work. I'd rather produce my own from the ground up. This stifles the creative process.

And even if it didn't, a human needs to make sure it isn't crap, anyway. Just have the human do it.

Thats fine, but if youre translating someone elses work then you are not producing your own work from the ground up. Ultimately translating is a job and as technology advances you have to be able to adapt to tools available to you.

Tyranthraxus posted...

The op of that topic is a god damn embarrassment to the human race

this

CyricZ posted...

As someone who does writing, I don't want to be correcting someone else's work. I'd rather produce my own from the ground up. This stifles the creative process.

And even if it didn't, a human needs to make sure it isn't crap, anyway. Just have the human do it.

I loathe AI for original scripts, but this for translation- the main creative process has already been done.
While I can appreciate stylization for dubs, that probably isnt key to subs, and when it is, a human translator should take the role of adding style.

I've seen some shots of shows that've tried this.

they're uh...well, points for literal accuracy I guess? Never hear people throw "Carcinogen" around in casual conversation before, though.

CyricZ posted...

As someone who does writing, I don't want to be correcting someone else's work. I'd rather produce my own from the ground up. This stifles the creative process.

And even if it didn't, a human needs to make sure it isn't crap, anyway. Just have the human do it.

If you're producing your own work from the ground up while translating something, I don't think you understand what translation is.

I cant wait until we have AI dubs 10 years down the line.

All the popular VAs could just sell the rights to their voice profile and they can do dubs with their voices long after they are out of the biz.

They could even meld popular VAs voices to create new ones for a different experience.

Companies need to go all in on AI tech.

TheDurinator posted...

If you're producing your own work from the ground up while translating something, I don't think you understand what translation is.

Well, that depends. Are we merely translating, or localizing, which is the actual process involved when it comes to foreign media?

Alles-Losen posted...

I cant wait until we have AI dubs 10 years down the line.

All the popular VAs could just sell the rights to their voice profile and they can do dubs with their voices long after they are out of the biz.

They could even meld popular VAs voices to create new ones for a different experience.

Companies need to go all in on AI tech.

2005 account

embarrassing

bytedance and meta already seem to be using it in some capacity

but i feel like context is that much more important in anime subtitling, so it may not be a trivial undertaking

mario2000 posted...

Well, that depends. Are we merely translating, or localizing, which is the actual process involved when it comes to foreign media?

Whoa whoa careful with the L-word bro that's a dirty word in some circles.

But don't worry bro, AI will totally get the cultural nuances just right and make it perfectly understandable to the right people.

Anyone supporting this has never actually attempted to use machine translation for Japanese to English in their life. No matter how advanced AI gets, it will NEVER produce something presentable on its own. There are SO many quirks with Japanese that make it difficult even for professionals to get right 100% of the time. A machine that has no concept of context doesn't stand a chance. Just a few examples:

1. Wordplay. Japan loves their puns. An AI isn't going to understand homophones, portmanteaus, etc. It will either completely fail to translate accurately, or it will be overly literal and come out as complete nonsense. It lacks the creativity to come up with an equivalent pun that makes sense in English.

2. In-universe jargon. There are several ways you can translate into English. Usually this would be literally translated as "precious fantasy". But in the context of Fate, it is always exclusively translated as "Noble Phantasm".

3. Pop-culture references. If you're quoting a famous line from another piece of media, it is essential that you translate it the exact same way that it was said in the official translation for that work. An AI won't pick up on that and may use a technically accurate but less obvious interpretation.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/fa07742a.jpg

CyricZ posted...

Whoa whoa careful with the L-word bro that's a dirty word in some circles.

But don't worry bro, AI will totally get the cultural nuances just right and make it perfectly understandable to the right people.

oof sorry my bad

wouldn't want anyone to die from hypertension because they saw the word "sus"

mario2000 posted...

Well, that depends. Are we merely translating, or localizing, which is the actual process involved when it comes to foreign media?

How many good localizations are there in anime? The only one I can specifically think of was in a dub (High School of the Dead) and admittedly, the jokes wouldve seemed out of place if theyd appeared as subtitles.
Again, Im not saying no human translators should be involved, but that AI could do the base translation and have humans handle the nuanced parts.

I do think that a lot bits that only work in Japanese almost never work when trying to be adapted to English, at least from why Ive seen. I feel like you always get some weird stretch they never works well (at least for comedy) or you have a lengthy explanation that you cant read before it disappears. I liked scanlators and Del Rey whod have a note on the side or the back respectively explaining the joke or reference.

Nemu posted...

With how stuff seems to be exponentially growing, it'll probably be viable in a few years.

Doubtful, translating Japanese to English is very annoying and nuanced that an AI would flub most of it most of the time.

LightHawKnight posted...

Doubtful, translating Japanese to English is very annoying and nuanced

it's really not that bad and you're underestimating AI

MangaBroski posted...

How many good localizations are there in anime? The only one I can specifically think of was in a dub (High School of the Dead) and admittedly, the jokes wouldve seemed out of place if theyd appeared as subtitles.
Again, Im not saying no human translators should be involved, but that AI could do the base translation and have humans handle the nuanced parts.

I do think that a lot bits that only work in Japanese almost never work when trying to be adapted to English, at least from why Ive seen. I feel like you always get some weird stretch they never works well (at least for comedy) or you have a lengthy explanation that you cant read before it disappears. I liked scanlators and Del Rey whod have a note on the side or the back respectively explaining the joke or reference.

Many of them. In fact, the bad ones are the ones that DON'T make an attempt to localize. Dry 1:1 translation for the sake of "accuracy". They come out bland, boring, or nonsensical.

LightHawKnight posted...

Doubtful, translating Japanese to English is very annoying and nuanced that an AI would flub most of it most of the time.

It depends on how things develop. From 5 years ago to now, MTL is way, way better, even if far from perfect. With how much generative AI has improved in just a couple years, it's not unreasonable to think that other areas in AI will start making leaps and bounds from here. Right now, relying too much on AI would be silly, but hypothetical AI in two years could very well be amazing.

Nemu posted...

It depends on how things develop. From 5 years ago to now, MTL is way, way better, even if far from perfect. With how much generative AI has improved in just a couple years, it's not unreasonable to think that other areas in AI will start making leaps and bounds from here. Right now, relying too much on AI would be silly, but hypothetical AI in two years could very well be amazing.

Generative AI has hit a plateau. It could be amazing eventually but it's going to take way more than 2 years.

There are situations where Google Translate is more accurate than DeepL.We are nowhere near MTL being a substitute for manual translation. And we never will be, as I already explained.

AI will be able to "translate" but it won't have the capability to "localize" in a way that will make sense to the context the lines are given in a situation. AI is a great tool, but it will need a human touch to make dialogues sound more natural. AI shouldn't be replacing humans, but it should be used as a supplemental tool to help with it. Whether we like it or not, AI is the future and the faster we adapt to it and make legislature to punish people/corporation who use it in bad faith the better off we are.

big "a computer will never beat a human expert at chess" energy ITT

ArsGoetia posted...

big "a computer will never beat a human expert at chess" energy ITT

Chess is mathematical in nature. Translation requires a level of creativity.

MangaBroski posted...

How many good localizations are there in anime?

I've got a dozen in the front of my head right now:

Cowboy Bebop
Dungeon Meshi
Steins;Gate
Monster
Pluto
Zom100
Fullmetal Alchemist
Summertime Rendering
Excel Saga
Spy X Family
Chainsaw Man
Great Pretender
Cyberpunk Edgerunner (which you may consider an honorable mention given the based-on work was primarily English)

Kaguya-sama: Love is War is maybe not a super accurate localization but goddamn is the dub really fucking good.

pokedude900 posted...

Chess is mathematical in nature. Translation requires a level of creativity.

you are overstating the difficulty of translation and understating the potential of ai
i have a degree in japanese. it blows me away how far even google translate has come in the last 3-5 years.

You keep making sweeping statements like that while disregarding any actual arguments. How about responding to post #25?

I think it's coming to the point where some people just believe AI will be able to do it all.

And what use is there arguing against such a belief?

Vyrulisse posted...

AI is the future we need to just get used to it.

I agree that AI is the future, it's not going away, and people should get used to this fact regardless if they like it or not. There are places something like AI will seriously be helpful, but it feels like every god damn company out there is trying to find ways to just flat out replace humans with AI wholesale when that probably will never work.

However I do also think we should be getting ahead of the problems that AI are clearly going to introduce to the world with proper regulation and rules, but this government is useless and controlled by companies so no protections are coming anytime soon.

Error1355 posted...

However I do also think we should be getting ahead of the problems that AI are clearly going to introduce to the world with proper regulation and rules, but this government is useless and controlled by companies so no protections are coming anytime soon.

This is the issue everyone that has a problem with AI is actually having an issue with, that I've seen(barring the AI universally bad crowd). But, we will never get ahead of the problems because there's too much profit potential. AI is going full steam ahead. Governments are slow rolling anything in regards to AI because the first country to nail it down will basically run the show.

Sounds like it'll cause more headaches than anything else. AI can be used for like rotoscoping live action effects and that's about it. That would put like half the Indian film workforce out of a job tho so I have problems with that too.

Would be best to just keep it out of the entertainment industry all together but that will never happen unfortunately. I've been on 3 AI focused sets (different aspects from writing, camera, post production etc) and they've been nightmarish experiences.

Live action and animation are different worlds sure, but the tech we have as is in my world (camera) already doesn't work 10% of the time and adding something unproven that doesn't work 80% of the time just adds more problems to the day. And this AI shit isn't being fully tested before it hits sets. We're the guinea pigs and it's costing a lot of money lol

Tbh if that means faster translations cool but I already know the translations will either be off the wall or super direct neither of which will be good

pokedude900 posted...

You keep making sweeping statements like that while disregarding any actual arguments. How about responding to post #25?

you dont think the model could be trained to parse things like a simple swap and replace? lol
or that certain phrases could be flagged ahead of time? (ie: movie quotes). human translators get shit like that wrong without notes too.
puns, etc. seem like a steep challenge, but again, human localization rarely does a good job either (because there's rarely any way to do a good job without TL/N)
and you're basing your assumptions off of current AI capability. i wholeheartedly believe in the next decade or so we'll have AI translation that's mostly indistinguishable from hand done, and i think it's absolutely foolish to say it will "NEVER" happen

Axiom posted...

Tbh if that means faster translations cool but I already know the translations will either be off the wall or super direct neither of which will be good

Dude. They already do same-day simulcasts because they're given the show early. How much faster do you need it?

This is just going to make me avoid Crunchyroll/Netflix/etc. and stick to fansubs even more because if ever I watch an official translation I'm always going to be thinking "is this what the characters are really saying?"

mario2000 posted...

This is just going to make me avoid Crunchyroll/Netflix/etc. and stick to fansubs even more because if ever I watch an official translation I'm always going to be thinking "is this what the characters are really saying?"

Fan sub groups will generally stop once an official localization is announced so you're going to watch predominantly niche, incomplete series.