Current Events > I started playing some old Thief games (ongoing spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Controls are fine, though the intro for Thief Gold seems to be missing, and I had to uninstall when I tried to change the scenery detail on the fly. There might be more between-mission videos to explain what's going on that are missing too, haha. Guess I'll just go along with most of the default stuff. Already did the tutorial and Bafford's Manor without much trouble. Of course, I'm doing no actual alarms or kills, as a true thief should.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/6/2/AABhrNAAE1u2.jpg

I highly suggest modding them. But Thief and Thief 2 are the pinnacle of the stealth genre.

I enjoyed like the 3rd one, I think it was.

Cocytus posted...

I enjoyed like the 3rd one, I think it was.

Deadly Shadows is generally regarded as the worst in the series, FYI. Or at least it was prior to the reboot. I dont know what the community considers worse, Deadly Shadows or the reboot.

I already played the reboot, so I don't need to bother with that again. I have the other three on Steam, though, so I figured I'd go through since I'm done with my other game (Railway Empire).

PraetorXyn posted...

I highly suggest modding them.

Naw, I want the OG baseline experience on first playthroughs.

Shotgunnova posted...

I already played the reboot, so I don't need to bother with that again. I have the other three on Steam, though, so I figured I'd go through since I'm done with my other game (Railway Empire).

Naw, I want the OG baseline experience on first playthroughs.

It is the OG experience they just look better.

Two of my favorite games of all time! Have fun! Also if you like these there is a large community over at ttlg.com that has a huge selection of fan made missions.

Ive made one myself actually and have been working on my second one for some time now.

PraetorXyn posted...

Deadly Shadows is generally regarded as the worst in the series, FYI. Or at least it was prior to the reboot. I dont know what the community considers worse, Deadly Shadows or the reboot.

Shadows is considered bad because it's functionally a different game from the previous titles, but on its own merits it is an amazing stealth game. Same issue with Splinter Cell: Conviction.

These games are some of my favorites. The Return to the Cathedral level is one of the spookiest areas I've ever encountered in a game.

PraetorXyn posted...

Deadly Shadows is generally regarded as the worst in the series, FYI. Or at least it was prior to the reboot. I dont know what the community considers worse, Deadly Shadows or the reboot.

Deadly Shadows is at least considered canon with the other two. From what I've seen, it's seen as the weakest of the three because of clunky gameplay mechanics like all the loading screens and such, though I have found some people who love the other two games and still consider the third their favorite. I don't know if there are any fans of the original trilogy who also like the reboot, but maybe they're out there.

Also, I think this might be because of bugs, but you can just go on a murder spree in some parts of Deadly Shadows with no consequences. There's one level in the original Thief Gold where you can do that, and I think it's also because of a bug, but I always tell myself it's because this area's not only secluded and deep underground, but also easy to permanently dispose of the bodies there (lava everywhere), so I just do the worst to the annoying enemies there. Lol.

Yeah, I remember hearing some Thief fans talk about some of their favorite creepy levels one time. I'm doing some prison-break scenario in this mission, but only tested it a little before quitting for awhile.

A lot of Deadly Shadows issues or limitations are resolved with the fan made patch. Just played it earlier this year and its still so good.

I just use texture mod i found somewhere and the games looked nice.

But yeah, they are still the pinnacle of stealth games.

mercurydude posted...

but you can just go on a murder spree in some parts of Deadly Shadows with no consequences

It's a bug where they didn't let a specific type of enemy have a hitbox low enough to damage you if you were crouching. The enemy type is only there for one level, granted.

I do miss stealth assassin games like Tenchu. I dont understand why the stealth genre as a whole is very preachy and punishes you for killing enemies.

With Thief, I dont consider it preachy, as youre a thief, and if you try to kill a guard theyll kick your ass.

Finished the prison level and wasn't a big fan of the hammer dudes and all the metal flooring. I did manage to cold-cock a lot, but then just slaughtered some 'cause they're so annoying. Good atmospherics, though, with all the moaning, wailing, keening, and so forth.

Shotgunnova posted...

Finished the prison level and wasn't a big fan of the hammer dudes and all the metal flooring. I did manage to cold-cock a lot, but then just slaughtered some 'cause they're so annoying. Good atmospherics, though, with all the moaning, wailing, keening, and so forth.

Lol. When I play these games, Im OCD enough that I have to blackjack every guard and pile them somewhere.

It occurs to me that I might be able to pickpocket keys from guards if I sidled up behind 'em. Should check that later and see if it's possible.

PraetorXyn posted...

Lol. When I play these games, Im OCD enough that I have to blackjack every guard and pile them somewhere.

Understandable. If I didn't kill some dudes in the second level, I probably would've done similar things, although I still tossed corpses into the shadows for old time's sake. I don't want a situation where the alarm is on and multiple hammer guys are using my head as a tympani.

Shotgunnova posted...

It occurs to me that I might be able to pickpocket keys from guards if I sidled up behind 'em. Should check that later and see if it's possible.

Understandable. If I didn't kill some dudes in the second level, I probably would've done similar things, although I still tossed corpses into the shadows for old time's sake. I don't want a situation where the alarm is on and multiple hammer guys are using my head as a tympani.

Yeah this is my gripe with the genre.

In Dishonored for example, you can unlock a power that literally disintegrates bodies when you kill someones, a stealth assassins dream as you dont even have to hide bodies anymore.

So you know they didnt find a single body, so long as you dont kill anyone until youve unlocked that power, yet if you start killing people with it, the world magically goes to shit with weepers and rats everywhere and you automatically get the bad ending.

Its like Hey, here are all these cool powers and tools to kill people with, but dont use them!

It's tempting to use those nifty tools/powers you get in stealth games, but I have to admit, there are few times where I stab some dude to death where I couldn't also just wait five seconds for him to patrol elsewhere and just escape. So, I'm okay with the Rambo approach being a marked step down in rewards compared to ghosting through a level. (I do, however, want to see Rambo take on a level with a massive silenced minigun. TF2 has one...)

I guess in the first Dishonored game, if you kill the bad guys, there's some internal logic of "these are the only people actually working during the plague, and if they die, so do their families" or something. They can't all be going out for whiskey and cigars with the boys, haha.

It would be fine if the genre wasnt 99% that. Tenchu, Aragami, and a smattering of others are all I can think of that dont preach at you for killing.

I would never Rambo a level, because if Im detected, I reload a save or start over, period.

Well, I just used some fire arrows on this dinosaur thing (burrick?), so I don't mind that.

Started the Bonehoard mission and traversed the first part after finding some secrets, including a dead explorer guy up near the top of a room. Nearly had to break out my ESP to find that hallway entrance since I'm playing in first-person. Then I did the tunnels where the dinosaur things and their spitter attacks are. Didn't care much about stealth there since there's a ton of 'em and glowing mushrooms are constantly betraying my position.

Climbed a ladder and am back in the normal tomb area now.

God I love Down in the Bonehoard so much. Im jealous tc, I wish I could experience these games first time again.

Finally found the Horn of Quintus after exploring that damned cave. I did sneak all the way through there perfectly, though, so that somehow worked out. I do like the verticality of this dungeon, even if it is annoying (screen is just some random player I pulled off Youtube).

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/6/7/AABhrNAAE2Br.jpg

Now it's time to track down some assassins who shot my dealer (???????) in his shop. I'm glad I failed by not following the first time, 'cause this dude's shop has a ton of stuff for free, so why do any pre-mission planning?

Beat the Ramirez/assassin mission. I found that douchebag down in the basement vault, knocked him out, then dumped him in the burrick pen he kept -- almost felt like a Hitman mission. But then I thought better of it and kept him alive, even though the evidence of him crossing me was two feet away. I also saw that there was a hidden chest behind some slashable banner, but didn't find it. The mission ended when I went back upstairs and took some goblets and stuff. I didn't pick 'em up earlier 'cause I thought it was generic stuff you throw, but eh well.

Now it's time to rob the Thieves' Guild. Kinda lame my dude doesn't start with all the freebie weapons he found last time, but that's just how it goes, I guess.

Good luck tc, a great deal of players hate that level but I love it.

Okay, just finished it and now I see why people hate it. At first I thought it was just a pleasant little romp through the restaurant, sewers, and then the vase mansion...until I got to the safe...and found out the key I needed was actually in the part of the sewers that I skipped...and it accounted for about 60% of the entire level. Once you know some shortcuts, it's not too bad, but, yeah, fumbling around took two hours and that includes save scumming here and there.

Next mission is to find a sword in another mansion. We'll see how it goes later.

Congrats! You mantled over the wall that is Thieves Guild, I think you will be pleased with the The Sword as it is full of.. well youll find out yourself.

Full of load-ass tiles with little islands of carpet everywhere. Oh joy.

I've explored it a little, from the first-floor gardens and parlors to the 2F funhouse weirdness. Up to 3F already thanks to this weird little Habitrail thing, but I dunno what theme it has.

Stole the sword and skidaddled back whence I come, although getting out took me down some tree trunks and stuff that I never saw before. Still no idea how all that was contained in a three-story mansion -- must be a supernatural aspect or something. I didn't circle all the way around the house, so maybe it made geographical sense after all.

Anyway, now it's time for a haunted cathedral.

Okay, that thing that's a cross between Funguy, Edward Scissorhands and a preying mantis needs to die. I decided to do an exploratory expedition and just see what was up with the level without saving, and I ran into the underground and heard this weird clicking noise. I turn around and this mushroom thing attacks me with its claw blades and straight up murders me. I was injured from killing burricks, I guess, but man, having that come out of the shadows was...yeah.

Yeah, thats the first real spooky level of the game. My absolute favorite in the series. I just love the lore and aesthetic of it.

Explored around more, but haven't really found the path to the cathedral. So much old buildings and debris here -- it's almost like an entire city quarter is lying in ruin. Might have to go underground again or something (found a weird tunnel). I've been turning on the lights when I could, but that maybe counter-productive to my stealthy goals, haha.

The AI was amazing for the time! Still is pretty awesome, but Thief II is even better.

PraetorXyn posted...

So you know they didnt find a single body, so long as you dont kill anyone until youve unlocked that power, yet if you start killing people with it, the world magically goes to s*** with weepers and rats everywhere and you automatically get the bad ending.

There's no way that happens with that power unless you were reckless with it. High and low chaos do not only consider body count. If you were sneaky with it, you should still be on low chaos

Goddamn, I still haven't found my way through this place. I found 650 of the 750 requisite gold to get through, but man, I don't want to go into the tunnels with two health left. I could probably take out one crab-looking dude if I get a height advantage, but it wouldn't be pleasant. I also saw some glowing zombie thing through a basement hole, so I want to go down there even less, haha.

Have you explored thoroughly near the drawbridge?

I lowered one earlier, but I'll have to look again. I've generally been looking around in a vertical way, but may have missed something. Maybe got distracted braining these zombies.

I ran all over and didn't really find where to go, but stumbled upon a second drawbridge with a burrick near it, so that may be the road to the cathedral. I was mostly looking around that other drawbridge where the fast-moving current is. (I'm sure there's a ladder to escape it somewhere, but I didn't see one. The weird room at the end of the tunnel is kind of hard to escape from, too.)

Hmm, I found a boarded-up passage that I can break into -- not sure if this is where I'm supposed to go, but there's a spider and a ladder down to one of those weird "I'm totally cool with being on fire" guys/ghosts. I thought dousing them with water arrows would be their secret weakness, but it didn't do much of anything. Broadhead arrows to the dome didn't do much either. I'm only at 2 HP right now, so I don't have too much wiggle room, haha.

I'm a little embarrassed that I forgot there was a map function, haha.

Shotgunnova posted...

I'm a little embarrassed that I forgot there was a map function, haha.

How about the fact you can put notes on it? This is a concept weirdly not adapted today despite all these huge maps we jump around in. Seems kinda silly not being able to.

Either way, good luck on the rest of the journey taffer!

I have a cartographer's mind, so once I do some mental mapping, it's not as annoying. Still, the cathedral prelude -- all those ruined buildings with tunnels, multiple layers, rope ladders, sluices, etc. -- do complicate things. Not that it's a bad feeling or anything; in fact, I kinda wish there were more modern games like this out on the market. Dishonored kinda fits the bill, I guess, to the point that Garrett voices Corvo (IIRC).

Finally got to the cathedral but didn't have the key to get in. Some ghostly voice said something about a pedestal and lighting it on fire, which made me think of that weird statue near a dead end's statue. That might not be the right place, but at least I sort of know where it is. Also went back to the first drawbridge area and found a secret door above it (gotta leap on the wall), which lead to a long-forgotten mansion where some red-garbed psycho killed me.

The problem at this point is that I have one health and no health potions, so I'm not sure how far I can go. The regular ghosts can be taken down with about 7 broadhead arrows, though, so I can probably shoot them from afar (and have).

Okay, the hidden exit to the level was in some weird room with a statue you illuminate while standing on a central key-shaped altar? The hell kind of puzzle is that? I already looted that room, so I probably wouldn't have figured that out, even if I did light up the statue. Anyway, I looked up how to finish this since I'm sick of being bogged down in this level, haha.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/9/6/AABhrNAAE4R4.jpg

Next is the Mage Towers.

EDIT: Also, I learned that you can reobtain rope arrows you used? I didn't know that.

I heard the Shalebridge Cradle level in Thief: Deadly Shadows is scary.

I look forward to seeing what lessons later games learned in terms of exploration. I do have Deadly Shadows, too, although at the rate I'm going (currently splitting my time between this and Dragon Age: Origins), it might take a while. Not really fond of using walkthroughs on my first time playing, but I couldn't take running around that creepy level with one health any longer, haha. From now on, I'll be buying a health potion if I don't start with one.

Been playing the towers for about an hour and haven't found the Earth Medallion or whatever yet. Still doing perfect stealth this time (even though I hit a mage in the face with a water arrow, haha) and it's way easier when enemies don't constantly revive on you. Might have to go back down to ground level and explore some mages or something, 'cause there's no way to do these elemental towers yet, despite what the updated objectives say.

Also looking for the area where I can do the answer to that "eight old men in the tower" poem. It was obviously the answer to some puzzle, but I haven't found it yet. I have three different keys, though, so it hopefully won't be too annoying. (I also found the exit to the level in the sewers and committed that to memory.)

Okay, the fire tower was complete trash. Some dudes wandering around in the lava heard me floors below and then wouldn't let me get past them without outing my position. Maybe I could've used the gas arrows for that part (???), but I didn't want to accidentally get environmental kills either. Ah well, I made off like a bandit with only 450 coins worth of stuff missed.

Onto the Lost City now. Sounds like a zombie hangout, so I brought flashbangs.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/8/8/AABhrNAAE4cs.jpg

God I hate the mages tower. You have a greater fortitude for that level than I sir.

Going through four towers just to get a single key that unlocks a door in a different tower for a rock. Yeah, it wasn't super awesome or anything, but it had potential just from all the verticality. I liked all the hedge mazes and how you could hop around on top if you needed.