Poll of the Day > Gotta couple friends who are stoked over UFO shit lately

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Far-Queue
05/03/22 9:03:59 AM
#1:


Do you believe in extraterrestrial life?






Apparently some gubmint stuff was declassified somewhat recently and there's a bunch of documentaries coming out or something?

I'm one who falls into the camp that the universe is probably way too vast to be completely void of intelligent life (I'll leave it to the experts here like PO to decide whether Earth denizens qualify as "intelligent life"), but I'm very skeptical to the notion that we've been visited by extraterrestrials. Wouldn't rule it out one way or the other, tho


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kind9
05/03/22 9:06:43 AM
#2:


I believe there must be more intelligent life beyond earth. I have no reason to believe they've ever visited earth. UFOs are always birds, balloons, airplanes, etc. Never alien spacecrafts. Even the recent declassified videos of UFOs are clearly just birds, considering their size and distance.

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papercup
05/03/22 9:09:08 AM
#3:


kind9 posted...
I believe there must be more intelligent life beyond earth. I have no reason to believe they've ever visited earth. UFOs are always birds, balloons, airplanes, etc. Never alien spacecrafts. Even the recent declassified videos of UFOs are clearly just birds, considering their size and distance.

This

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HornedLion
05/03/22 9:29:11 AM
#4:


At the risk of sounding like a person in the late 1700s doubting flight(airplanes) I dont think any other life in the universe has mastered traveling at the speed of light.

The immense distance and ever expanding universe almost seems like an insurance policy The Great Engineer put in place to ensure different creations dont come in contact with each other.

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BlackScythe0
05/03/22 12:51:35 PM
#5:


They need to start listening to blink 182

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myghostisdead
05/03/22 2:01:35 PM
#6:


I want to believe

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Hejiru
05/03/22 2:47:53 PM
#7:


It's pretty much a statistical certainty that life exists elsewhere in the galaxy.

But we're never going to meet each other.

People really underestimate how BIG space is. You may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.
Even if the closest star system to us had life on it, and they flew here at the maximum possible speed allowed by the laws of physics, it would take four years to get here. That's a very long time for a ship to be running at maximum speed, especially consider the insane amount of energy that would be required to power the trip.

And that's assuming the closest star has life. It's far more likely that the nearest alien race is hundred or even thousands of light-years away. The alien crew would have to be put into some kind of biological stasis for the trip, and by the time they got here, eons would have passed on their home planet, making it essentially a one-way trip. They would never see their families again. Nobody on their home planet would probably even remember them. Who would be willing to make that sacrifice just to visit a comparatively primitive race like us? Hell, the human race might even be extinct when they arrived.

Everything we've learned about physics has told us that traveling faster than light is literally impossible. So unless aliens discover some technology that can break the laws of reality itself, they can't get here. Or even know we exist. It's kind of like if the entire earth was uninhabited except for one person in China and one in America. How likely is it for those two people to find the other exists, let alone travel to them?

I do believe there's alien life somewhere in the galaxy. But they've never been to Earth. And it's very unlikely they ever will.

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Zareth
05/03/22 5:11:02 PM
#8:


kind9 posted...
I believe there must be more intelligent life beyond earth. I have no reason to believe they've ever visited earth. UFOs are always birds, balloons, airplanes, etc. Never alien spacecrafts. Even the recent declassified videos of UFOs are clearly just birds, considering their size and distance.
Yeah this. If an alien spacecraft were to visit earth, they'd either contact us or obliterate us.

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captpackrat
05/03/22 5:25:13 PM
#9:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/5/3/AAQwHjAADMdN.jpg

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wwinterj25
05/03/22 5:28:11 PM
#10:


I believe in life on other planets but not to the point where I believe said life has travelled to our planet.

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Yellow
05/03/22 5:39:25 PM
#11:


Aliens visiting Earth is not something that clicks with my view of reality, no.

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Revelation34
05/03/22 6:09:31 PM
#12:


Hejiru posted...
It's pretty much a statistical certainty that life exists elsewhere in the galaxy.

But we're never going to meet each other.

People really underestimate how BIG space is. You may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.
Even if the closest star system to us had life on it, and they flew here at the maximum possible speed allowed by the laws of physics, it would take four years to get here. That's a very long time for a ship to be running at maximum speed, especially consider the insane amount of energy that would be required to power the trip.

And that's assuming the closest star has life. It's far more likely that the nearest alien race is hundred or even thousands of light-years away. The alien crew would have to be put into some kind of biological stasis for the trip, and by the time they got here, eons would have passed on their home planet, making it essentially a one-way trip. They would never see their families again. Nobody on their home planet would probably even remember them. Who would be willing to make that sacrifice just to visit a comparatively primitive race like us? Hell, the human race might even be extinct when they arrived.

Everything we've learned about physics has told us that traveling faster than light is literally impossible. So unless aliens discover some technology that can break the laws of reality itself, they can't get here. Or even know we exist. It's kind of like if the entire earth was uninhabited except for one person in China and one in America. How likely is it for those two people to find the other exists, let alone travel to them?

I do believe there's alien life somewhere in the galaxy. But they've never been to Earth. And it's very unlikely they ever will.


I think you meant to say universe and not galaxy.

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Metalsonic66
05/03/22 6:13:20 PM
#13:


They've already been here

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DeSantis2024
05/03/22 6:20:28 PM
#14:


I believe that life exists in some form elsewhere in the universe, but weve never been visited by it. Also on that note I think there is a high chance life started here on earth by some microbe that hitched a ride on an asteroid and crashed into the ocean or something.
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Hejiru
05/03/22 6:21:56 PM
#15:


Revelation34 posted...
I think you meant to say universe and not galaxy.

No, I meant what I said. Our galaxy has over 100 billion stars. Statistically, it's nearly impossible for Earth to be the only planet in the Milky Way that has life.

Also, our galaxy is over 100,000 light-years across. If we start to consider life from another galaxy, then the distances involved would make alien content a virtual impossibility. (As if it wasn't already.)

DeSantis2024 posted...
I think there is a high chance life started here on earth by some microbe that hitched a ride on an asteroid and crashed into the ocean or something.

That theory is called panspermia, and it's dismissed by most scientists.

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shadowsword87
05/03/22 6:42:36 PM
#17:


Hejiru posted...
It's pretty much a statistical certainty that life exists elsewhere in the galaxy.

But we're never going to meet each other.

People really underestimate how BIG space is. You may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.
Even if the closest star system to us had life on it, and they flew here at the maximum possible speed allowed by the laws of physics, it would take four years to get here. That's a very long time for a ship to be running at maximum speed, especially consider the insane amount of energy that would be required to power the trip.

And that's assuming the closest star has life. It's far more likely that the nearest alien race is hundred or even thousands of light-years away. The alien crew would have to be put into some kind of biological stasis for the trip, and by the time they got here, eons would have passed on their home planet, making it essentially a one-way trip. They would never see their families again. Nobody on their home planet would probably even remember them. Who would be willing to make that sacrifice just to visit a comparatively primitive race like us? Hell, the human race might even be extinct when they arrived.

Everything we've learned about physics has told us that traveling faster than light is literally impossible. So unless aliens discover some technology that can break the laws of reality itself, they can't get here. Or even know we exist. It's kind of like if the entire earth was uninhabited except for one person in China and one in America. How likely is it for those two people to find the other exists, let alone travel to them?

I do believe there's alien life somewhere in the galaxy. But they've never been to Earth. And it's very unlikely they ever will.

  1. This is the fermi paradox, and something a lot of people talk about.
  2. The technology for FTL, or similar lighthugging technology to accelerating to .9c is something we can work on. There are always other avenues than just shooting something into space.
  3. There's other ideas, including the great barriers and the dark forest theory that explain why things are so quiet. I'm partial to the dark forest theory right now, I think it's got a lot of good points.
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SKARDAVNELNATE
05/03/22 6:52:28 PM
#18:


Lets say there is some intelligent species that has figured out a viable means of interstellar travel.
I expect they put as much thought toward earth as we do toward an anthill on the side of a major highway.
You'd notice it if you looked, but why do that?

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Metalsonic66
05/03/22 7:09:48 PM
#19:


SKARDAVNELNATE posted...
Lets say there is some intelligent species that has figured out a viable means of interstellar travel.
I expect they put as much thought toward earth as we do toward an anthill on the side of a major highway.
You'd notice it if you looked, but why do that?
Depends on how common life actually is in the universe

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shadowsword87
05/03/22 7:22:00 PM
#20:


SKARDAVNELNATE posted...
Lets say there is some intelligent species that has figured out a viable means of interstellar travel.
I expect they put as much thought toward earth as we do toward an anthill on the side of a major highway.
You'd notice it if you looked, but why do that?

Yes you would.
Have you seen how many people study anthills?
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Metalsonic66
05/03/22 7:30:01 PM
#21:


Or at least poke them with a stick

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Far-Queue
05/03/22 7:31:26 PM
#22:


Metalsonic66 posted...
Or at least poke them with a "stick"

( )

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Metalsonic66
05/03/22 7:32:44 PM
#23:


Stick, probe, tomato, tomahto

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SKARDAVNELNATE
05/03/22 7:34:37 PM
#24:


Metalsonic66 posted...
Depends on how common life actually is in the universe
If a lot, then another inhabited planet is insignificant.
If a little, then they wouldn't expect to find any and might not bother looking.

shadowsword87 posted...
Have you seen how many people study anthills?
Significantly less people than those that pass by it without even know it's there.

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ParanoidObsessive
05/03/22 10:17:22 PM
#25:


Hejiru posted...
It's pretty much a statistical certainty that life exists elsewhere in the galaxy.

It's really not. And people who assume this generally don't understand how statistics work.

This line of thinking usually boils down to "There are so many planets in the universe, therefore there has to be life out there", but that doesn't take into account just how likely (or unlikely) life is. Which is something we generally can't answer with our current level of understanding. Almost every attempt to guess (like the Drake Equation) is mostly just making up bullshit to argue a hypothetical.

If the formation of life is statistically likely, then yes, lots of planets would theoretically imply lots of life. But if the initial creative spark of life is infinitesimally small, then even a near infinite number of planets wouldn't necessarily be enough to result in multiple life-bearing planets. If the odds of life forming are small enough, then even our existence could be utterly unlikely, let alone anyone else's.

And that's because we even start factoring in things like:

*) Questions of scale - is it just life alone that matters, or specifically sentient life? Sapient life? Life intelligent enough to develop technology? Actual space-faring civilizations? Each successive step in development will by definition have its own statistical likelihood, so it's possible we live in a universe where there are millions of planets that could develop microbes but almost none where those microbes will ever evolve beyond single-cellular forms. Discussing the likelihood of life existing elsewhere is not the same thing as the likelihood of intelligent life, or life that has the capacity to actually travel through space.

*) The limiting factors of time - humans have existed for a fraction of an eyeblink in the timeline of the universe. When you take into account the full timeline of universal existence, it's possible that you could have multiple intelligent alien species form yet never exist at the same time, thus making each species functionally "alone". If the last species died out millions of years ago and the next one won't crawl out of the primordial ooze for millions of years to come, they essentially don't really exist from our narrow perspective.

*) The "primacy" argument - even in a universe that has millions of sapient species, one of them has to be the first one. From the perspective of that species, they will be alone in the universe (at least until the second species manages to spawn). This could easily be us because the universe is actually very young in cosmic terms - in the vast cosmic timeline, humans would probably come very early in universal history. It's entirely possible we ARE the first, even if we won't be the last.

*) The Great Barrier - there's been lots of discussion about whether or not the universe acts as a filter in some way that prevents civilizations from reaching obvious galaxy-spanning existence. This is usually in regards to talk about the Fermi Paradox and why, if there are tons of alien species out there, why we never find any real evidence of them. If there is some step in development that is nearly impossible to pass without going extinct, then any potential civilization is essentially doomed from the start. While it's possible that such a thing exists and we've already passed the threshold, it's also possible that we're already in the process of inevitably destroying ourselves.

When it comes down to it, us being alone in the universe (for whatever reason) isn't necessarily any more or less statistically likely than there being tons of life out there. Because we don't really know the objective odds of any of this shit. It's hard to calculate odds when you're dealing with a single system. Which is part of what gives us the mistaken assumption that life is likely (after all, it's happened 100% of the time in the single case we've examined!).

The most we can really say with any degree of accuracy is that it's possible we're not alone. But it's also possible that we are.



Hejiru posted...
People really underestimate how BIG space is. You may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.

That's why it's always vitally important to know where your towel is.

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Metalsonic66
05/03/22 10:34:06 PM
#26:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/4/1/AAFUswAADMht.jpg

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GGuirao13
05/04/22 4:00:38 AM
#27:


Only Earth has intelligent life.

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captpackrat
05/04/22 7:21:26 AM
#28:


Metalsonic66 posted...
Depends on how common life actually is in the universe
Not just how common life is, and not just intelligent life, but life that has begun transmitting radio signals.

The first experimental radio broadcasts on Earth began around 1895, with the first commercial broadcasts beginning in 1920. So our radio signals have now traveled over 100 light years and encompasses a volume of over 4 million cubic light years. There are at LEAST 59,722 visible stars within this range. There are at least 34 planets in this area discovered so far, 11 of which are within the habitable zone. And this does not consider the possibility of an alien ship or probe passing through this modest sphere of space picking up one of our signals.

(This is actually part of the plot of Robert Reid's novel Year Zero, in which aliens discovered human music through radio signals in 1977 and begin sharing it, unknowingly racking up a copyright fine that will bankrupt the entire known universe.)

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Gaawa_chan
05/04/22 7:26:26 AM
#29:


kind9 posted...
I believe there must be more intelligent life beyond earth. I have no reason to believe they've ever visited earth. UFOs are always birds, balloons, airplanes, etc. Never alien spacecrafts. Even the recent declassified videos of UFOs are clearly just birds, considering their size and distance.
This more or less.

There's no reason at all to believe that extraterrestrial life will visit us or vice versa. The universe is way too big for that, imo. It's just very statistically unlikely in the same way that the existence of that life is statistically very likely.

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Nade Duck
05/04/22 10:57:30 AM
#30:


i believe it. i also believe they've visited us, if they aren't watching us. given how miserable and violent we are to each other i wouldn't be surprised if they decided not to contact us. i used to be a little more skeptical but i saw a UFO a few years back and figured it wouldn't hurt to open my mind up a little bit. that plus all the things the gubment's been releasing just screams something weird is going on to me.

dunno about ancient aliens or whatever, but we definitely aren't alone and i personally think they're well aware that we exist.

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ParanoidObsessive
05/04/22 11:03:08 AM
#31:


captpackrat posted...
So our radio signals have now traveled over 100 light years and encompasses a volume of over 4 million cubic light years. There are at LEAST 59,722 visible stars within this range

The problem there is, contrary to science fiction and laypeople's understanding of science, radio waves aren't really infinite. While they do travel outwards at the speed of light, it wouldn't necessarily radiate outward as a perfect sphere, and they suffer from signal degradation (weaker signals are also distorted and absorbed into the atmosphere to some degree, and potentially drowned out by the "louder" radiation from the sun). The farther away radio waves get, the more diffuse they get, which means the more garbled and static-y they get, until you reach a certain point where they'd become almost indistinguishable from the general background radiation of the universe.

It's currently theorized that you wouldn't be able to really receive any useful information from normal radio waves beyond the range of our own solar system - even Alpha Centauri (the closest star to us) is too far away to actually detect our radio waves in any meaningful way. By that point all they'd really be able to pick up is a single photon or two, not enough to actually detect anything resembling a coherent pattern. Definitely not enough to then assume it was a sign of life (and in the same vein, we won't be detecting anyone else's radio waves either, for the same reason).

About the only way you'd detect anything is if we (or "they") deliberately sent a tight-beam direct transmission aimed at a specific star (and remember, space is moving, so we'd have to aim at where it's going to be, not at where it appears to be now). Even then it would still potentially diffuse over time and distance, so you still only have a limited range you could feasibly reach. And you'd have to be sending repeated bursts at every star you can see in the sky and hope you get lucky that one of them has a civilization that is capable of detecting your signal and willing to try and respond.

It's the equivalent of throwing a message in a bottle into the sea off the coast of England and assuming it will eventually be found by someone in New York. Sure, it could happen... but it probably won't.



GGuirao13 posted...
Only Earth has intelligent life.

I've seen no evidence of it.

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Far-Queue
05/04/22 11:18:57 AM
#32:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
laypeople
Hey das me!

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Revelation34
05/04/22 12:02:54 PM
#33:


shadowsword87 posted...


1. This is the fermi paradox, and something a lot of people talk about.
2. The technology for FTL, or similar lighthugging technology to accelerating to .9c is something we can work on. There are always other avenues than just shooting something into space.
3. There's other ideas, including the great barriers and the dark forest theory that explain why things are so quiet. I'm partial to the dark forest theory right now, I think it's got a lot of good points.


"This leads to all civilizations attempting to hide in radio silence."

That theory already fails since humans already broke that.

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ParanoidObsessive
05/04/22 1:45:24 PM
#34:


Revelation34 posted...
"This leads to all civilizations attempting to hide in radio silence."

That theory already fails since humans already broke that.

Not really, because you're ignoring two things:

1) There's always the possibility that any given civilization broadcasts openly at first, before realizing why you probably shouldn't do that, and then stopping. So you have a narrow window to send/receive before silence kicks in. And civilizations that don't come to this conclusion quickly enough eventually get murderfucked (and thus stop transmitting for an entirely different reason).

2) Humans, in general, are stupid and self-destructive. So us being the one group of dopes that do the most stupid possible thing makes perfect sense.

And that's not counting less sinister possibilities. Like the possibility that there are more effective means of transmitting information, and only the most primitive civilizations use radio, later evolving past it. So universal radio silence is less caution/fear and more pragmatism. It would be akin to us being in the smoke signal or semaphore stage while everyone else has already moved on to telephones.

Stephen Hawking said we probably shouldn't be constantly broadcasting where we are or shouting into the void in the hopes that something will eventually answer back. And he's generally smarter than most of the people saying "but wouldn't it be cool if aliens?!", so I'm probably going to back his opinion on the matter.

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shadowsword87
05/04/22 8:07:07 PM
#35:


Revelation34 posted...
"This leads to all civilizations attempting to hide in radio silence."

That theory already fails since humans already broke that.

There's a difference between general AM/FM radiowaves and pointing at a nearby star that potentially could hold life, and directionally blasting humanitys personal information.

Stuff like the voyager satellite is a Potential Bad Idea.
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Justin2Krelian
05/04/22 8:21:53 PM
#36:


Prime Directive?

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ParanoidObsessive
05/04/22 9:24:58 PM
#37:


shadowsword87 posted...
There's a difference between general AM/FM radiowaves and pointing at a nearby star that potentially could hold life, and directionally blasting humanitys personal information.

Yeah, what species would be stupid enough to do that?

It would be like posting all of your personal information on Facebook, then mentioning you're going on vacation for a week, and being surprised to find that someone broke into your house while you were gone because they knew you'd be away.

...wait...

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Metalsonic66
05/04/22 10:23:43 PM
#38:


Aliens from Uranus

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