Board 8 > THE Batman Discussion Topic *Major Spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

All right, so I just got out of the theater and I need to process this. Here are my thoughts:

• The first two-and-a-half hours were enthralling thanks to rapid-fire detective work, well-placed action, and the setting. Holy shit, what a setting. This gritty noir Gotham not only felt real but unsafe. Dreary, oppressive atmosphere, lots of tight camerawork, and a slew of sleazy criminals. I couldn't get enough until...
• The last half-hour just didn't work for me. Not only did it feel rushed (Gotham gets flooded in like 20 seconds of screen-time and we don't get any time to absorb the impact of that), but it also felt like those last 30 minutes belonged to a completely different movie. I had 100% bought into the grounded detective story that carried the first 150 minutes, and for me Batman's confrontation with the Riddler at Arkham was the movie's climax. Then we marched on toward a spectacle-heavy finale at Gotham Square Gardens in which Batman foiled a bunch of nameless domestic terrorists. After all the buildup to the Falcone revelation and the capture of the Riddler, taking out a squad of nutjobs felt like a letdown. But at least...
• The line "I am vengeance" coming full-circle was awesome. It was a brutal realization for Batman when he recognized the nature of vengeance. It's dangerous and anyone can wield it, whether it's him, the Riddler, Catwoman, or even random nameless goons.
• Loved that human moment at the end when the injured kid clings to Batman before being airlifted out. I kinda wish the movie had more moments like that to balance out all the grit and gloom.
• Lot of great surprises along the way. Falcone being Catwoman's father caught me off-guard, as did the fake-out where Riddler appeared to leak Batman's identity at Arkham.
• Pattison was a great Batman but a meh Bruce Wayne.
• Jim Gordon is everywhere in this movie. I swear, teleporting is his superpower.
• Batman's new theme sounds like a slowed down Imperial March, and I can't get it out of my head, and I love it.

Some more thoughts trickling in...

• There was a lot of Bat-tech, but the "camera" contact lenses stood out to me. The scene where Catwoman infiltrates the 44 Below club was fun and tense because of them.
• Catwoman in general was great, and I'm bummed she disappeared for a good chunk of the 2nd act.
• Despite juggling four notable Batman antagonists (Catwoman, Penguin, Falcone, Riddler), the movie never felt like a juggling act.

Thought this was great.

Pattinson fits the cowl so well. Bruce was definitely less of the story here and I think he did really well with what this Bruce was.

I didn't have an issue with the last of the movie. It was a catch your breath moment of "Oh shit we aren't done." And it was fast but terrifying. It happening quick was okay, not great, but I felt like the really if anything it added even more interest to that final little chat at Arkham

That's a long damn movie. When are we bringing back the intermission?

I'll be seeing in the morning after I get off work

Do we really need a 3 hour Batman movie?

SwiftyDC posted...

So, who was Riddler talking to at Arkham? At first, when I saw the silhouette I instantly thought Two-Face but then that doesn't really make sense. And then I thought I heard the mystery character mention "clowns" so maybe the Joker?

It's absolutely the later.

TheRock1525 posted...

Do we really need a 3 hour Batman movie?

I thought it was well-paced until the last half-hour. I honestly didn't want the movie to end for much of the time.

banananor posted...

That's a long damn movie. When are we bringing back the intermission?

My buddy had to get up to piss about two hours in. I felt bad for him because an important piece of info got dropped while he was out.

I don't know why this movie thought it needed so many shots of a bright light shining directly into the camera from point blank range

Killer soundtrack though

Soundtrack was fantastic yeah

Really great movie. Really liked the cinematography, score, acting from both Pattenson and Dano, Gordon, the action and cinematography.

Yeah, I loved this other than the weird rooftop scene with Batman and Catwomans first kiss where Batman acts terribly for no reason then they kiss for some reason. That just felt out of nowhere and should have been cut.

The pacing was fine to me, and the visuals and soundtrack were fantastic.

Lightning Strikes posted...

Yeah, I loved this other than the weird rooftop scene with Batman and Catwomans first kiss where Batman acts terribly for no reason then they kiss for some reason. That just felt out of nowhere and should have been cut.

The pacing was fine to me, and the visuals and soundtrack were fantastic.

The romance definitely felt rushed. That said, I did like the passport scene where they held each other silently/motionlessly while the cop searched the building. Sexual tension suited this movie better than on-the-nose romance.

Waluigi1 posted...

Really great movie. Really liked the cinematography, score, acting from both Pattenson and Dano, Gordon, the action and cinematography.

The camerawork was top-notch. Kinda reminded me of that confining feeling I got while playing RE2 Remake. The Batman makes you feel like you're marching through hell (in a good way obviously).

"The last half-hour just didn't work for me."

Yeah, it felt like the studio notes came down and said "this is a great film, but could we make it more like the Nolan films instead?

"Pattison was a great Batman but a meh Bruce Wayne."

Agreed. He would have been a kick ass version of The Crow, though.

"Catwoman in general was great, and I'm bummed she disappeared for a good chunk of the 2nd act."

I'm actually glad she did. That was a big helping hand in not making the whole endeavor feel like a juggling act and it felt natural for the flow of the narrative.

"That's a long damn movie. When are we bringing back the intermission?"

Hopefully for The Batman 2. I could have watched another hour of this if we had an intermission in the middle. Make the intermission long enough and most people will go round 2 on buying snacks and drinks as well, which is where the real money is for the theaters.

"Do we really need a 3 hour Batman movie?"

We've needed this Batman movie for a long time. This is the Batman I really hoped Affleck would become. This movie was 3 hours so, yeah, we needed a 3 hour Batman movie. Maybe it could have been shorter, but it also could have been longer and still delivered.

"I did like the passport scene where they held each other silently/motionlessly while the cop searched the building. Sexual tension suited this movie better than on-the-nose romance."

Although I've seen it in countless other movies, I still absolutely loved this scene. It felt right, not forced, and would have been a great prelude in the event they saved the "something more" for a sequel.

ChichiriMuyo posted...

"The last half-hour just didn't work for me."

Yeah, it felt like the studio notes came down and said "this is a great film, but could we make it more like the Nolan films instead?

You're probably right. I wanted the movie to end like a classic film noir--no spectacle, just dramatic revelations. Had Riddler revealed Batman's identity to the public, that would've been unreal. We already saw that bullets and bombs can't hurt Batman, so why not attack him in the one way he's vulnerable? Could've been a John Wick 2 type of ending where he's running with the world out to get him.

"That's a long damn movie. When are we bringing back the intermission?"

Hopefully for The Batman 2. I could have watched another hour of this if we had an intermission in the middle. Make the intermission long enough and most people will go round 2 on buying snacks and drinks as well, which is where the real money is for the theaters.

Intermission didn't ruin Godfather 2, so why not?

"Do we really need a 3 hour Batman movie?"

We've needed this Batman movie for a long time. This is the Batman I really hoped Affleck would become. This movie was 3 hours so, yeah, we needed a 3 hour Batman movie. Maybe it could have been shorter, but it also could have been longer and still delivered.

I loved that the runtime allowed for an intricate detective story with fleshed-out worldbuilding. That was the selling point for me, and they nailed it. I wasn't fatigued until the last thirty minutes, and if the movie had maintained it's grounded noir feel, I probably would consider this movie a 10/10.

Im worried that a sequel would draw too much from the last 30 minutes of this film.

I appreciated the high Batman to Bruce Wayne ratio because I don't find him interesting as Bruce Wayne so that definitely helped the movie

Leonhart4 posted...

I appreciated the high Batman to Bruce Wayne ratio because I don't find him interesting as Bruce Wayne so that definitely helped the movie

Agreed. The Wayne parts were flat, and the Alfred subplot felt melodramatic.

redrocket posted...

Im worried that a sequel would draw too much from the last 30 minutes of this film.

They'll definitely draw from the Joker reveal at the end.

They should address the city being flooded in the sequel, but considering how they downplayed its impact in the final act, I don't expect them to. Seriously, Gotham being flooded is a huge deal, yet they treated it like a change in the weather.

Something else I really liked, world building.

Haven't watched yet but I got my Blu-ray copy already.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/8/8/AAeolZAAC_18.jpg

Waluigi1 posted...

Something else I really liked, world building.

Gotham felt like a gigantic haunted house. Absolutely loved this portrayal.

They really didn't seem to care about all those people who died in the big freeway explosion, did they?

Some people, just want to see the world burn.

Grand Kirby posted...

They really didn't seem to care about all those people who died in the big freeway explosion, did they?

Haha not to mention all they got out of it was a light Spanish lesson

Very good movie

Grand Kirby posted...

They really didn't seem to care about all those people who died in the big freeway explosion, did they?

I had the same though lol. A lot of people died in that for sure

Waluigi1 posted...

I had the same though lol. A lot of people died in that for sure

Obviously, Batman made sure they were okay just before jumping over that truck to get Penguin.

Saw it.

The trailer for The Elvis movie beforehand has Elvis as a child wearing a Black Adam costume which was surreal.

The movie I don't actually have much to say about! I liked it, bit Dark Knight good but yeah it was pretty dang good.

Saw The Batman again this afternoon.

Movie was much more fun the first time because of the mystery, but the finale bothered me less this time.

Also picked up on Falcone strangling Selina's mom, Annika, Selina, and Gotham for 20 years.

that Bullet Train trailer was surprisingly fun

Watched it tonight

Pros:

• Everything about the atmosphere. Music, set design, lighting, direction, the constant mood rain. This is what a Batman movie should look like, and with superhero movies dominating pop culture for the last decade, movies like this that go with unique style and genre over fitting the general superhero film mold have been few and far between.
• Performances were great across the board, but especially Colin Farrell as the Penguin (I was legitimately confused when his name was in the credits, with no idea he was even in the movie) and Paul Dano as Riddler (I was worried when I saw the massive makeover Riddler was getting for this movie, but damn if the Zodiac Killer thing didn't work.

Cons:

• The standout nature of the film is kinda taken away from a little by the announcement that they're already trying to branch it into, bare minimum, two more movies and two TV shows. Why does everything need to be an cinematic universe? And I'll be honest, the teaser toward the end didn't do it for me. There are very few characters less played out than The Joker at this point.
• Like others mentioned, the last 30 minutes were cool, but didn't really fit the overall noir style of the film. The flood didn't get the chance to have its lingering impact, and Batman went from "lingering fear in the darkness" to "jumpy punchy action boy" real fast.
• Minor gripe: It seems like Catwoman needs saved an absurd amount? Like why does she need to be made to keep quiet when sneaking into the safe? That's like her whole thing. And even when she shows up to save Batman, it's still Batman that saves her again.
• Another minor gripe: How does this suit work, logistically? Why is the heavy armor of the suit going down the stairs so loud it draws the attention of the muggers on the subway, but also quiet enough to sneak up on the professional burglar in a silent room?
• And another: How many deaths did Batman cause in the Penguin highway chase, given that literally nothing came of it? They caught Penguin, Penguin reminded him that the Spanish was wrong on the clue (which Alfred had already told him), and then they let him go, and that was it, after an entire busy highway of cars was left actively on fire

Overall that seems like a lot more cons than pros but overall I DID really like it, and 90% of it was for that incredible atmosphere

Wanted to drop in to say I laughed out loud when Batman used the bat symbol on his chest as a knife.

Honestly I think it's pretty genius.

Like why NOT make it a knife??

The bat symbol knife was fine. I liked how it's built into the suit. Very economical design in that regard.

What bothered me was the bat steroids at the end. He couldn't just will himself to stand up and fight? We really needed a new bat gadget introduced with 5 minutes left in the movie?

I don't think an adrenaline shot is much of a bat gadget

The Bat adrenaline was awesome.

Johnbob, I also noticed Selina needing to be saved at least three separate times, which was more annoying each time.

The Carmine confrontation could have been so much better. Instead of making him talk about unapologetically killing her mother, have him say something like she was an unfortunate casualty or weakness I had to make up for and then have her drop the gun and he starts to strangle her, instead of her just losing to an old ass man in her element.

saw this yesterday

pros

- i liked robert pattison way more than i expected during the first trailer. the way batman looked coming out of the shadows repeatedly was really cool. this is a fantastic characterization of batman - they really play up the fact that this is a messed up dude the way that penguin reacts during the chase scene is great.

- the way batman sustains damage here is really cool. he gets hit, from behind, a lot. it's mostly by endurance and luck and (as we saw) adrenaline that he manages to do what he does. he's not captain america in terms of strength/power, the way that bale's batman often appears to be. so yeah, overall ups to the fight scenes.

- loved the judicious use of bruce wayne. this is batman depicted as someone who only becomes who he is by putting on the mask, and he shows his face only once to the general public (and once later in the game to falcone).

- gotham was fantastically dingy and corrupt-looking. loved that. i'm not sure any other batman movie has made gotham look so specifically like manhattan, down to the cultural touchpoint of gotham square garden.

- the first few scenes are really fantastic - the binoculars shot of the riddler, the sloooow buildup to the first time batman appears, the rorschach-esque voiceover narration (though honestly, i wish they'd shown us more of that). that contact-lens camera is fantastic too.

- selina and batman had nice chemistry. felt like some of their scenes were a little ridiculous, but the actors brought it during those scenes, which was great.

- the overall mystery (that falcone was in fact running the city entirely) was pretty cool on paper, and it took a satisfying amount of time to unravel - . batman's daddy issues tying closely with this plot also worked.

- i think batman's character development was good. while the dialogue with selina was a little hamfisted at times, the fact that his ultimate act of heroism is to start saving people on the ground is a nice touch. the mayor suggests that bruce wayne should become more philanthropic; i think that his final acts as batman in this movie suggest we're likely to go that route in the future.

cons

- the riddler was unbearable to me when on screen. he wasn't a fun villain and he had no charisma, and while this is a different type of movie from most superhero movies, a superhero movie isn't fun without a fun villain. the domestic terrorists actually were a little more enjoyable than the riddler, simply because they represented the sort of creeping rot that's at the heart of this gotham. the riddler himself reminded me of the villain of se7en in terms of the way he's held til later in the film and the way he reacts/his motives, but the spectacle there was more enjoyable than this, and that villain had more charisma too. this is the one biggest area where the movie would've been a lot better with a more enjoyable villain - see point two...

- alongside the villain, if the rest of the cast were more enjoyable, then i think i would've liked it a lot more. carmine and penguin are probably the only other characters that i particularly liked here. selina was... okay. commissioner gordon was fine, but i don't understand why he was in the movie this much. and all this meant that we spent a lot of time with batman. pattinson was great in the role but it got tiring.

- the way they solved the riddles was kind of ridiculous, but whatever, that's a really minor gripe.

- the looooong lingering shots and dramaaaaatic music swelling, in many cases, didn't do it for me. not enough charisma/fun factor as payoff to justify it. i generally disliked the sound direction because the movie dragged so much, despite in many isolated scenes (especially in the intro) being above average. the riddler's loud sounds were particularly unbearable. while i understand it's to indicate disorientation, the constant flashlight-directly-into-the-camera annoyed me too.

- for a movie this gritty, having batman constantly appear so high profile, and walking in and out while the cops are right there, was disappointing. commissioner gordon was in this movie way too much to me. batman having a daring escape from the precinct followed by just showing up at a later crime scene just didn't work for me. really felt counter to the "lurks in the shadows" motif established early on.

- tying to this - the batmobile chase scene was pretty iffy to me. it was not super-fun to follow visually, other than the ending.

- there were just a few narrative devices that didn't work well for me. characters react with "jesus" just a few too many times; . this is a pretty minor point too.

- why the flying squirrel?! it's already a superhero movie, just do cool bat wings!

---

overall, i think there was a lot to like and dislike about this movie, but the massive runtime has me leaning a little down on it. it did a lot of stuff great, but i think it needed a higher fun factor. bale's batman was pretty fun without his mask, but pattison isn't that bruce wayne (yet) and that worked here. specifically i think the movie needed more charisma from the villainous side. the riddler is supposed to be camp and hilarious. the alt-right feel is not that. for all the movie's seriousness, it still has batman turning into a flying squirrel, and massive explosions during a night chase.

Oh about the running from the police station scene, I could not take the chief of police seriously with that squeaky voice of his.

SeabassDebeste posted...

this is a fantastic characterization of batman - they really play up the fact that this is a messed up dude the way that penguin reacts during the chase scene is great.

The look of terror on Penguin's face as upside-down Batman approaches was priceless.

- the way batman sustains damage here is really cool. he gets hit, from behind, a lot. it's mostly by endurance and luck and (as we saw) adrenaline that he manages to do what he does. he's not captain america in terms of strength/power, the way that bale's batman often appears to be. so yeah, overall ups to the fight scenes.

Wish he had a weakness though. Aside from sustaining a concussion from the DA's bomb and getting winded from a shotgun blast at the end, he's basically a tank.

- the overall mystery (that falcone was in fact running the city entirely) was pretty cool on paper, and it took a satisfying amount of time to unravel - . batman's daddy issues tying closely with this plot also worked.

On my second watch, Falcone as the rat seemed super obvious, especially after Penguin's interrogation. I feel stupid for not realizing it sooner on opening night.

- the way they solved the riddles was kind of ridiculous, but whatever, that's a really minor gripe.

YES. The first time I watched, I was caught up in the story and didn't care. The second time, however, I noticed the same thing with the riddle solutions. It was almost as if Batman had some kind of videogame-esque hint system working in his favor.

Also, the fact that Batman outs Falcone right before Bella Real's celebration required some suuuuper convenient timing.

batman having a daring escape from the precinct followed by just showing up at a later crime scene just didn't work for me.

That and the car chase were the only notable spectacle scenes until the finale. Seemed like every time there was spectacle involved, it broke the grounded feel of the detective/noir story. Not saying you can't have spectacle in this type of movie, but you also need appropriate consequences.

- tying to this - the batmobile chase scene was pretty iffy to me. it was not super-fun to follow visually, other than the ending.

Fun, but definitely a challenge to follow.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Oh about the running from the police station scene, I could not take the chief of police seriously with that squeaky voice of his.

Same. Odd casting choice. This guy would get laughed out of the building by the other officers if he tried to become chief.

Just got back from The Batman.

Best Batman movie for me hands down.

He was actually a detective, and his relationship with Gordon made sense for once.

Loved it.

Great movie.

Wasn't a fan of the Riddler but I've never liked Jigsaw serial killer Riddler when they do that in the comics either.

Odd casting choice for me was Alfred, dude didn't really feel like an Alfred to me

Leonhart4 posted...

Odd casting choice for me was Alfred, dude didn't really feel like an Alfred to me

Yep. The whole Alfred subplot didn't work for me. Lot of forced emotion when he and Bruce hold hands in the hospital.

Okay I saw this but I don't keep up with DC so I'm confused on a few things about the franchise at this point - is this like a separate canon running simultaneously with Affleck Batman, or more of a reboot? They tease Joker at the end but it's not Jokin' Phoenix, so was he just like a standalone iteration?

Seginustemple posted...

Okay I saw this but I don't keep up with DC so I'm confused on a few things about the franchise at this point - is this like a separate canon running simultaneously with Affleck Batman, or more of a reboot? They tease Joker at the end but it's not Jokin' Phoenix, so was he just like a standalone iteration?

Joker movie might be all in his head, so I'd say it was a standalone.

Not sure if The Batman is connected to the DC universe. Probably not.

Im assuming theyre retconning Batman and this is part of it, because before my showing was a trailer for DC Universe 2022 and all the movies coming out like Black Adam, The Flash, and this.

It was really weird because it was cut like a trailer and had scenes from the movie we were literally there to see.