o Antifa Activist is MURDERED by a Far-Right Man with a FURRY FETISH!!!

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mrduckbear 02/22/22 10:47:36 PM #1:	Are you surprised there's alt-right freaks in the furry community? Yes No Are you surprised there's alt-right freaks in the furry community? - Results (64 votes) Yes 45.31% (29 votes) 29 No 54.69% (35 votes) 35 60 y/o Disabled Antifa Activist, June Knight was shot at point blank range in the head by a far-right FURRY, 43 y/o Benjamin Jeffrey Smith as she was protesting and blocking traffic at a BLM event in Portland!! She was murdered on Saturday at Normandale Park when the suspect walked right up to her and directly shot her. The Machinist who is known in the community to have a FURRY FETISH, has regularly posted on far-right forums and backed Kyle Rittenhouse and moaned about crime in Portland as he also shot four other women. He's a known member of the furry community where he dresses up in animal outfits and gathered at conventions After he killed her, he himself was shot by another marcher and is now in critical condition in hospital The BLM group were marching for Patrick Kimons, a black man shot and killed by police in 2018 as well as Minneapolis victim, Amir Locke June's wife, Katherine Knapp said she would have reasoned with him and tried to de-escalate had he just talked it out. She said June was good at de-escalating situations like this Knightly was a known LGBT rights activist who also has a grown son and survived 2 rounds of cancer. She had to use a cane to get around after getting knee surgery and was partially retired who operated a vape store At the protest, Knightly was "corking" meaning she was stopping traffic along the route to ensure try and ensure the safety of other protesters. She wrote on her FB that she was "born to cork" and was thankful for the opportunity to work and learn from them She started protesting after the murder of George Floyd and ended up shielding protesters from motorists veering too close. Knapp said it became her mission to protect the activists June also shared her opinion openly writing "F* Rittenhouse" as her cover photo and that she has a healthy distrust of authority and is vaccinated Tributes poured in for the social justice warrior describing her as a beatiful human being who wanted to do good in the world. An antifascist twitter page also wrote about June's love and solidarity to the family and friends. Those who knew trailer trash Smith however for 14 years said he had become angry throughout the years because of protets and homeless people picking through his trash. He criticized the BLM movement and posted on far-right forums going under the name Polybun. His roommate, Kristine Christensen said he had been getting more radicalized over the years stating he went from "FU Police" to "Blue Lives Matter" last year She said he started realizing his race was being threatened in the country and gave into Donald Trump's message of being an "oppressed" white man. His brother who live in Indiana said Smith had no love for left wing activists and described them as communists who wanted to destroy America's capitalist society. He was also angered over covid restrictions and started collecting guns and made anti-semitic comments on reddit Despite Smith now in the hospital, he is NOT charged with the shooting yet but neighbors confirmed he was the man with the gun. He was just days from leaving Portland to move to Alabama because it was getting too "liberal" here. Are you surprised that there's even conservative freaks in the furry community?. https://i.imgur.com/yCu9TUJ.png https://i.imgur.com/l6CUIMs.jpg https://i.imgur.com/1UimJGs.jpg https://i.imgur.com/no2lqZV.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IOqjZxr.jpg https://i.imgur.com/5k8rWbw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/o6iCNVf.jpg https://i.imgur.com/36iEjIn.jpg https://i.imgur.com/kc2uZDg.jpg --- No More Everyday News. Goodbye The LAST News Topic To Come.. <cite>mrduckbear posted [p:962884015] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote> Are you surprised there's alt-right freaks in the furry community? Yes No Vote View Results Are you surprised there's alt-right freaks in the furry community? - Results (64 votes) Yes 45.31% (29 votes) 29 No 54.69% (35 votes) 35 Show Voting Form 60 y/o Disabled Antifa Activist, June Knight was shot at point blank range in the head by a far-right FURRY, 43 y/o Benjamin Jeffrey Smith as she was protesting and blocking traffic at a BLM event in Portland!! She was murdered on Saturday at Normandale Park when the suspect walked right up to her and directly shot her. The Machinist who is known in the community to have a FURRY FETISH, has regularly posted on far-right forums and backed Kyle Rittenhouse and moaned about crime in Portland as he also shot four other women. He's a known member of the furry community where he dresses up in animal outfits and gathered at conventions After he killed her, he himself was shot by another marcher and is now in critical condition in hospital The BLM group were marching for Patrick Kimons, a black man shot and killed by police in 2018 as well as Minneapolis victim, Amir Locke June's wife, Katherine Knapp said she would have reasoned with him and tried to de-escalate had he just talked it out. She said June was good at de-escalating situations like this Knightly was a known LGBT rights activist who also has a grown son and survived 2 rounds of cancer. She had to use a cane to get around after getting knee surgery and was partially retired who operated a vape store At the protest, Knightly was "corking" meaning she was stopping traffic along the route to ensure try and ensure the safety of other protesters. She wrote on her FB that she was "born to cork" and was thankful for the opportunity to work and learn from them She started protesting after the murder of George Floyd and ended up shielding protesters from motorists veering too close. Knapp said it became her mission to protect the activists June also shared her opinion openly writing "F* Rittenhouse" as her cover photo and that she has a healthy distrust of authority and is vaccinated Tributes poured in for the social justice warrior describing her as a beatiful human being who wanted to do good in the world. An antifascist twitter page also wrote about June's love and solidarity to the family and friends. Those who knew trailer trash Smith however for 14 years said he had become angry throughout the years because of protets and homeless people picking through his trash. He criticized the BLM movement and posted on far-right forums going under the name Polybun. His roommate, Kristine Christensen said he had been getting more radicalized over the years stating he went from "FU Police" to "Blue Lives Matter" last year She said he started realizing his race was being threatened in the country and gave into Donald Trump's message of being an "oppressed" white man. His brother who live in Indiana said Smith had no love for left wing activists and described them as communists who wanted to destroy America's capitalist society. He was also angered over covid restrictions and started collecting guns and made anti-semitic comments on reddit Despite Smith now in the hospital, he is NOT charged with the shooting yet but neighbors confirmed he was the man with the gun. He was just days from leaving Portland to move to Alabama because it was getting too "liberal" here. Are you surprised that there's even conservative freaks in the furry community?. https://i.imgur.com/yCu9TUJ.png https://i.imgur.com/l6CUIMs.jpg https://i.imgur.com/1UimJGs.jpg https://i.imgur.com/no2lqZV.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IOqjZxr.jpg https://i.imgur.com/5k8rWbw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/o6iCNVf.jpg https://i.imgur.com/36iEjIn.jpg https://i.imgur.com/kc2uZDg.jpg</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Soup_or_Science 02/22/22 10:53:51 PM #2:	haha that's funny, cause literally everyone has had an xxx fetish at some point i'm just laughing cause someone "died" again and now I'm not "im dying rn im literally dying" doesn't that mean lmao? I guess in this case, it was Leaving My Ass Out. --- "the great nation of Japan" -Nanaue <cite>Soup_or_Science posted [p:962884151] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>haha that's funny, cause literally everyone has had an xxx fetish at some point i'm just laughing cause someone "died" again and now I'm not "im dying rn im literally dying" doesn't that mean lmao? I guess in this case, it was Leaving My Ass Out. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66 02/22/22 10:59:15 PM #3:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/8/8/AAFUswAAC9Wk.jpg --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. <cite>Metalsonic66 posted [p:962884277] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/8/8/AAFUswAAC9Wk.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/22/22 11:32:30 PM #4:	mrduckbear posted... Smith had no love for left wing activists and described them as communists who wanted to destroy America's capitalist society. Yes, that's how communism works; it's the process of transitioning away from the destructive system of oppression that is capitalism. But no, let us continue to sacrifice a thousand souls a day to the golden throne to keep the Emperor's decaying body in his permanent state of un-death. mrduckbear posted... Are you surprised that there's even conservative freaks in the furry community?. Once upon a time, yes, but then I saw the Foxes in their Hugo Boss designed uniforms a few years back and thought I had seen everything (I had not) --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962884976] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>mrduckbear posted... </cite> <quote>Smith had no love for left wing activists and described them as communists who wanted to destroy America's capitalist society.</quote> Yes, that's how communism works; it's the process of transitioning away from the destructive system of oppression that is capitalism. But no, let us continue to sacrifice a thousand souls a day to the golden throne to keep the Emperor's decaying body in his permanent state of un-death. mrduckbear posted... </cite> <quote>Are you surprised that there's even conservative freaks in the furry community?.</quote> Once upon a time, yes, but then I saw the Foxes in their Hugo Boss designed uniforms a few years back and thought I had seen everything (I had not) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Muscles 02/22/22 11:35:15 PM #5:	KodyKeir posted... Yes, that's how communism works; it's the process of transitioning away from the destructive system of oppression that is capitalism. Because communist countries have such a great track record of not oppressing people... --- Muscles Chicago Bears \| Chicago Blackhawks \| Chicago Bulls \| Chicago Cubs \| NIU Huskies <cite>Muscles posted [p:962885033] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>KodyKeir posted... </cite> <quote>Yes, that's how communism works; it's the process of transitioning away from the destructive system of oppression that is capitalism.</quote>Because communist countries have such a great track record of not oppressing people... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/22/22 11:57:56 PM #6:	Muscles posted... communist countries Communist in name only, while failing to understand how communism actually works, and in the process became fascist states. There are plenty of socialist states that are successful, and largely because they understand that communism means transitioning away from laissez faire capitalism while also balancing the reality of a world that is still largely beholden to capitalist interests. --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962885445] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Muscles posted... </cite> <quote>communist countries</quote> Communist in name only, while failing to understand how communism actually works, and in the process became fascist states. There are plenty of socialist states that are successful, and largely because they understand that communism means transitioning away from laissez faire capitalism while also balancing the reality of a world that is still largely beholden to capitalist interests. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kimbos_Egg 02/23/22 12:49:03 AM #7:	https://i.imgur.com/kc2uZDgl.jpg so fucking creepy --- You think you've Got problems? https://imgur.com/OnEOsdT <cite>Kimbos_Egg posted [p:962886429] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>https://i.imgur.com/kc2uZDgl.jpg so fucking creepy </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/23/22 1:56:34 AM #8:	Yes, that's how communism works; it's the process of transitioning away from the destructive system of oppression that is capitalism. But no, let us continue to sacrifice a thousand souls a day to the golden throne to keep the Emperor's decaying body in his permanent state of un-death. I apologize in advance as the 'real communism has never been tried' thing serious grinds my gears and ticks me off. If this wasn't what you meant, feel free to disregard the following Yea. Let me guess. 'Real Communism has never been tried'. You might wanna look into those 'socialist' states because they're basically capitalist nations with high taxes that turn around and use said tax money to fund social welfare systems. They're not communist or 'socialist' by any means besides delusion. The simple fact is that 'real communism' results in tyrants, starvation, horrific prison conditions, and so-forth because it's very core concept is inherently flawed. Let's take a simple set-up. Assume you are in charge of building a train to an outlying village on the other side of a mountain. You can go around it which will take more steel, or through it which will require more engineers. Firstly you'll need an entire infrastructure just to MAKE the steel and train the engineers in the first place so already the concept is flawed because this means you need mundane workers to mine and smelt the steel but educators to train the engineers who won't be working the mines and will not directly produce any sort of material gain on their own... but let's ignore that. Which do you, as a true communist, wish to do? One costs more material resources but will impose a lesser strain on the engineers and workers, another will cost less resources but put more strain on the workers. Which is correct? Let me tell you the answer. Neither is correct. Instead you go through the mountain (saving raw resources) and press the villagers on the other side to become 'engineers'. If any resist they are capitalist sympathizers and to be imprisoned and forced into prison labor. I then proceed to have the 'engineers' tunnel through the mountain while bragging about the great success that the project has been. Falsify financial reports and passenger numbers to indicate that the railroad is a massive success. When the railroad inevitably fails I proceed to blame it on either capitalist sabotage or the local officials or something and ensure the media runs a non-stop smear campaign so that no one ever finds out the truth. Meanwhile I pocket the money and laugh all the way to the bank as I come off as a hero of the communist people when all I actually did was force unskilled laborers into dangerous conditions to produce a shoddy product that was doomed to fail. This is exactly what we see happening in places like China and saw in the U.S.S.R. Government officials gladly forced what was effectively slave labor to work on shoddy and dangerous products while they profit off the rich... Because this is what communism BREEDS! Equality among workers... in that all are equally miserable and effectively enslaved. If you dissent you're likely to... vanish... But... BUT! Did you ask yourself 'do we even need this railroad in the first place?' I wager you didn't and you simply assumed that it was needed. For all you know this is a village of, like, 50 people with no need of a railroad and all you've done is produce a wasteful railroad that only exists because the government says it should exist. If you think that there will be some perfect communist utopia let me tell you, you're better off hunting unicorns. What you will see, every time, is massive mono-parties that claim to be 'for the people' but instead quash any dissent and opposition and even people who simply wish to do something as simple as move a garbage pile but don't have the parties endorsement (that actually happened in China) as the workers will be effectively turned into a slave force and the party elites live lives of opulent indulgence. We're freaking out in America because our Walmart's, while still having food and other products, are having issues keeping stock... while in places like Venezuela people are having to fight to defend their lemon trees because the people are starving while the 'president' dines on feasts and always seems to get at least 51% of the vote no matter how unpopular he is. Why do you think your vision of communism will succeed? Because you wished it to be? --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962887282] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Yes, that's how communism works; it's the process of transitioning away from the destructive system of oppression that is capitalism. But no, let us continue to sacrifice a thousand souls a day to the golden throne to keep the Emperor's decaying body in his permanent state of un-death. I apologize in advance as the 'real communism has never been tried' thing serious grinds my gears and ticks me off. If this wasn't what you meant, feel free to disregard the following Yea. Let me guess. 'Real Communism has never been tried'. You might wanna look into those 'socialist' states because they're basically capitalist nations with high taxes that turn around and use said tax money to fund social welfare systems. They're not communist or 'socialist' by any means besides delusion. The simple fact is that 'real communism' results in tyrants, starvation, horrific prison conditions, and so-forth because it's very core concept is inherently flawed. Let's take a simple set-up. Assume you are in charge of building a train to an outlying village on the other side of a mountain. You can go around it which will take more steel, or through it which will require more engineers. Firstly you'll need an entire infrastructure just to MAKE the steel and train the engineers in the first place so already the concept is flawed because this means you need mundane workers to mine and smelt the steel but educators to train the engineers who won't be working the mines and will not directly produce any sort of material gain on their own... but let's ignore that. Which do you, as a true communist, wish to do? One costs more material resources but will impose a lesser strain on the engineers and workers, another will cost less resources but put more strain on the workers. Which is correct? Let me tell you the answer. Neither is correct. Instead you go through the mountain (saving raw resources) and press the villagers on the other side to become 'engineers'. If any resist they are capitalist sympathizers and to be imprisoned and forced into prison labor. I then proceed to have the 'engineers' tunnel through the mountain while bragging about the great success that the project has been. Falsify financial reports and passenger numbers to indicate that the railroad is a massive success. When the railroad inevitably fails I proceed to blame it on either capitalist sabotage or the local officials or something and ensure the media runs a non-stop smear campaign so that no one ever finds out the truth. Meanwhile I pocket the money and laugh all the way to the bank as I come off as a hero of the communist people when all I actually did was force unskilled laborers into dangerous conditions to produce a shoddy product that was doomed to fail. This is exactly what we see happening in places like China and saw in the U.S.S.R. Government officials gladly forced what was effectively slave labor to work on shoddy and dangerous products while they profit off the rich... Because this is what communism BREEDS! Equality among workers... in that all are equally miserable and effectively enslaved. If you dissent you're likely to... vanish... But... BUT! Did you ask yourself 'do we even need this railroad in the first place?' I wager you didn't and you simply assumed that it was needed. For all you know this is a village of, like, 50 people with no need of a railroad and all you've done is produce a wasteful railroad that only exists because the government says it should exist. If you think that there will be some perfect communist utopia let me tell you, you're better off hunting unicorns. What you will see, every time, is massive mono-parties that claim to be 'for the people' but instead quash any dissent and opposition and even people who simply wish to do something as simple as move a garbage pile but don't have the parties endorsement (that actually happened in China) as the workers will be effectively turned into a slave force and the party elites live lives of opulent indulgence. We're freaking out in America because our Walmart's, while still having food and other products, are having issues keeping stock... while in places like Venezuela people are having to fight to defend their lemon trees because the people are starving while the 'president' dines on feasts and always seems to get at least 51% of the vote no matter how unpopular he is. Why do you think your vision of communism will succeed? Because you wished it to be? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66 02/23/22 2:00:09 AM #9:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/5/AAFUswAAC4BH.jpg --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. <cite>Metalsonic66 posted [p:962887318] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/5/AAFUswAAC4BH.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/23/22 2:30:47 AM #10:	Unbridled9 posted... But... BUT! Metalsonic66 posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/5/AAFUswAAC4BH.jpg KodyKeir posted... while failing to understand how communism actually works, and in the process became fascist states. There are plenty of socialist states that are successful, and largely because they understand that communism means transitioning away from laissez faire capitalism while also balancing the reality of a world that is still largely beholden to capitalist interests. --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962887644] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>But... BUT!</quote> Metalsonic66 posted... </cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/5/AAFUswAAC4BH.jpg</quote> KodyKeir posted... </cite> <quote>while failing to understand how communism actually works, and in the process became fascist states. There are plenty of socialist states that are successful, and largely because they understand that communism means transitioning away from laissez faire capitalism while also balancing the reality of a world that is still largely beholden to capitalist interests.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/23/22 2:51:45 AM #11:	Yea. Keep telling yourself that. Maybe, one day, you'll wish upon a star and that will happen. --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962887835] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Yea. Keep telling yourself that. Maybe, one day, you'll wish upon a star and that will happen. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/23/22 3:12:22 AM #12:	Thing is, what you wrote could easily be a copypasta for capitalism. Most times people criticize communism, they end criticizing capitalism, largely because they don't understand what communism is. Capitalism will one day end, the choice we have is whether it will end with the destruction of the human species, or with the concerted effort to shift to a new economy. Communism is merely that shift from our current state to some new paradigm more aligned with a civilized society. Turn off Faux News, read Das Kapital. --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962888011] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Thing is, what you wrote could easily be a copypasta for capitalism. Most times people criticize communism, they end criticizing capitalism, largely because they don't understand what communism is. Capitalism will one day end, the choice we have is whether it will end with the destruction of the human species, or with the concerted effort to shift to a new economy. Communism is merely that shift from our current state to some new paradigm more aligned with a civilized society. Turn off Faux News, read Das Kapital. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ozmose 02/23/22 4:25:43 AM #13:	KodyKeir posted... Capitalism will one day end, the choice we have is whether it will end with the destruction of the human species, or with the concerted effort to shift to a new economy. Communism is merely that shift from our current state to some new paradigm more aligned with a civilized society. Yeah, when I think of civilized society Russia, China, North Korea, and Cuba are the first places that come to mind, lol. I always hear the argument, "Well, communism has never been done right!". Yeah, neither has Capitalism. No economic system ever has. The difference is, when capitalism does a poor job you still have enough personal autonomy to do something about it. With communism you yield every shred of power to the party, so you either keep your mouth shut, or take a one way trip to the gulag. --- Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. - Oscar Wilde <cite>Ozmose posted [p:962888580] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>KodyKeir posted... </cite> <quote>Capitalism will one day end, the choice we have is whether it will end with the destruction of the human species, or with the concerted effort to shift to a new economy. Communism is merely that shift from our current state to some new paradigm more aligned with a civilized society.</quote>Yeah, when I think of civilized society Russia, China, North Korea, and Cuba are the first places that come to mind, lol. I always hear the argument, "Well, communism has never been done right!". Yeah, neither has Capitalism. No economic system ever has. The difference is, when capitalism does a poor job you still have enough personal autonomy to do something about it. With communism you yield every shred of power to the party, so you either keep your mouth shut, or take a one way trip to the gulag. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kind9 02/23/22 4:46:06 AM #14:	mrduckbear posted... Are you surprised that there's even conservative freaks in the furry community?. Not in the slightest. Conservatives are hypocrites and they have kinks and fetishes like everyone else. --- http://i.imgur.com/NkZUeFd.gif <cite>kind9 posted [p:962888741] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>mrduckbear posted... </cite> <quote>Are you surprised that there's even conservative freaks in the furry community?.</quote>Not in the slightest. Conservatives are hypocrites and they have kinks and fetishes like everyone else. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/23/22 5:09:02 AM #15:	Thing is, what you wrote could easily be a copypasta for capitalism. Most times people criticize communism, they end criticizing capitalism, largely because they don't understand what communism is. Capitalism will one day end, the choice we have is whether it will end with the destruction of the human species, or with the concerted effort to shift to a new economy. Communism is merely that shift from our current state to some new paradigm more aligned with a civilized society. Turn off Faux News, read Das Kapital. Stop reading Das Kapital, read Animal Farm. Or 1984. Or really any history book about communist nations. Seriously, it's one of those annoying arguments that, when it fails, they argue 'well, it wasn't REAL communism'. So when it succeeds it's real communism, but when it fails and results in two nations that killed more than WWII Germany on their own, not to mention multiple other nations with massive death counts that failed to reach those amounts, the common man being reduced to an effective slave, an oligarchical upper class of privileged elites, dissenters vanishing in the middle of the night, and many other horrors, it's 'not real communism'. Wake up. This IS real communism! Das Kapital is the fantasy here. A perfect society that can't be obtained held up by fanciful dreams and fairy dust. Capitalism has problems, yes, but it's done FAR more to improve peoples lives and make the world a better place than Communism; which has done the exact opposite. Do you seriously think you'll end up working, say, a 20 hour work week and then spend the rest relaxing and playing video games? No. You won't. Someone needs to grow that food. Someone needs to clean those sewers. Someone needs to do all the hard labor that makes a society run. However now, instead of choosing to do so and getting paid arguably decent money for it, you're going to be drafted into doing it by the government and paid in being allowed to eat. You won't get some decent house or something; you'll get shoved into some grey block apartment building that will be utterly miserable to live in and will consider yourself lucky if the bread line isn't too long... and this is if you're LUCKY and don't end up in a nation where, say, you're forced to farm all day but end up starving to death in your little shack. Real Communism has been tried. Multiple times. What you're reading is a Communist fantasy. There won't be some magical society where you're free to pursue leisure because you're free of landlords, enjoying the arts in your free time because artists are now free to create, and working only a few hours at a job you'll love. You're going to be thrust into a communal farm where you'll work until you drop and the only 'art' will be a television with six channels that provide only the bare needs and a constant loop of propaganda only interrupted when the glorious leader wishes to make an announcement. THAT is Communism! The system that considers it's own citizens traitors and/or corrupted by capitalism if they get caught eating a snack roll and actively tries to shoot down balloons sent carrying them from their more prosperous neighbor. A system that has no problem engaging in ethnic cleansing then having someone of said ethnicity run the Olympic torch to try and claim that they're not. --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962888907] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote> <quote>Thing is, what you wrote could easily be a copypasta for capitalism. Most times people criticize communism, they end criticizing capitalism, largely because they don't understand what communism is. Capitalism will one day end, the choice we have is whether it will end with the destruction of the human species, or with the concerted effort to shift to a new economy. Communism is merely that shift from our current state to some new paradigm more aligned with a civilized society. Turn off Faux News, read Das Kapital.</quote> Stop reading Das Kapital, read Animal Farm. Or 1984. Or really any history book about communist nations. Seriously, it's one of those annoying arguments that, when it fails, they argue 'well, it wasn't REAL communism'. So when it succeeds it's real communism, but when it fails and results in two nations that killed more than WWII Germany on their own, not to mention multiple other nations with massive death counts that failed to reach those amounts, the common man being reduced to an effective slave, an oligarchical upper class of privileged elites, dissenters vanishing in the middle of the night, and many other horrors, it's 'not real communism'. Wake up. This IS real communism! Das Kapital is the fantasy here. A perfect society that can't be obtained held up by fanciful dreams and fairy dust. Capitalism has problems, yes, but it's done FAR more to improve peoples lives and make the world a better place than Communism; which has done the exact opposite. Do you seriously think you'll end up working, say, a 20 hour work week and then spend the rest relaxing and playing video games? No. You won't. Someone needs to grow that food. Someone needs to clean those sewers. Someone needs to do all the hard labor that makes a society run. However now, instead of choosing to do so and getting paid arguably decent money for it, you're going to be drafted into doing it by the government and paid in being allowed to eat. You won't get some decent house or something; you'll get shoved into some grey block apartment building that will be utterly miserable to live in and will consider yourself lucky if the bread line isn't too long... and this is if you're LUCKY and don't end up in a nation where, say, you're forced to farm all day but end up starving to death in your little shack. Real Communism has been tried. Multiple times. What you're reading is a Communist fantasy. There won't be some magical society where you're free to pursue leisure because you're free of landlords, enjoying the arts in your free time because artists are now free to create, and working only a few hours at a job you'll love. You're going to be thrust into a communal farm where you'll work until you drop and the only 'art' will be a television with six channels that provide only the bare needs and a constant loop of propaganda only interrupted when the glorious leader wishes to make an announcement. THAT is Communism! The system that considers it's own citizens traitors and/or corrupted by capitalism if they get caught eating a snack roll and actively tries to shoot down balloons sent carrying them from their more prosperous neighbor. A system that has no problem engaging in ethnic cleansing then having someone of said ethnicity run the Olympic torch to try and claim that they're not. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
adjl 02/23/22 9:32:40 AM #16:	Unbridled9 posted... You might wanna look into those 'socialist' states because they're basically capitalist nations with high taxes that turn around and use said tax money to fund social welfare systems. So... Capitalism, with socialist policies applied as needed to prevent that capitalism from reducing people's quality of life? What a novel concept that I'm sure nobody has suggested before as being a way to improve countries that are taking capitalism too far. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. <cite>adjl posted [p:962892090] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>You might wanna look into those 'socialist' states because they're basically capitalist nations with high taxes that turn around and use said tax money to fund social welfare systems.</quote> So... Capitalism, with socialist policies applied as needed to prevent that capitalism from reducing people's quality of life? What a novel concept that I'm sure nobody has suggested before as being a way to improve countries that are taking capitalism too far. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/23/22 5:54:08 PM #17:	Metalsonic66 posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/5/AAFUswAAC4BH.jpg Ozmose posted... "Well, communism has never been done right!" Unbridled9 posted... Stop reading Das Kapital, KodyKeir posted... Most times people criticize communism, they end criticizing capitalism, largely because they don't understand what communism is. Capitalism will one day end, the choice we have is whether it will end with the destruction of the human species, or with the concerted effort to shift to a new economy. Communism is merely that shift from our current state to some new paradigm more aligned with a civilized society. Turn off Faux News, read Das Kapital. Continue spouting off the propaganda you've been brainwashed your entire life to believe, but all you sound like is Tuck Carlson: I refuse to understand what I'm talking about, I've made up my mind that it is evil and no amount of facts will change that. I will use examples of fascist states that are communist in name only as proof that I'm right while I "well, actually" the actual examples of successful socialist states. [tilts head, mouth agape] --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962906452] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Metalsonic66 posted... </cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/3/5/AAFUswAAC4BH.jpg</quote> Ozmose posted... </cite> <quote>"Well, communism has never been done right!"</quote> Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>Stop reading Das Kapital,</quote> KodyKeir posted... </cite> <quote>Most times people criticize communism, they end criticizing capitalism, largely because they don't understand what communism is. Capitalism will one day end, the choice we have is whether it will end with the destruction of the human species, or with the concerted effort to shift to a new economy. Communism is merely that shift from our current state to some new paradigm more aligned with a civilized society. Turn off Faux News, read Das Kapital.</quote> Continue spouting off the propaganda you've been brainwashed your entire life to believe, but all you sound like is Tuck Carlson: <quote>I refuse to understand what I'm talking about, I've made up my mind that it is evil and no amount of facts will change that. I will use examples of fascist states that are communist in name only as proof that I'm right while I "well, actually" the actual examples of successful socialist states. [tilts head, mouth agape]</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/23/22 5:55:17 PM #18:	adjl posted... So... Capitalism, with socialist policies applied as needed to prevent that capitalism from reducing people's quality of life? What a novel concept that I'm sure nobody has suggested before as being a way to improve countries that are taking capitalism too far. I wouldn't call it that. It's more of capitalism with a government in place that has placed a higher value on the quality of life for it's citizens than other endeavors. The high taxes simply add more fuel for them to burn in the fire to keep the engine going. For better or worse a lot of America's wealth goes into things like the military which a lot of these other nations simply don't do. It's made America arguably the strongest military in the world, but it's also COSTLY! I'm not going to debate if America should or shouldn't be doing that, just accepting that it is. I'm certain that if America adjusted it's budget percentages (within reason) to mirror many of these nations we'd see a drastic QoL improvement for all of America's citizens but it wouldn't be without sacrifices. I also feel like a lot of Americans have come out against capitalism because, for all intents and purposes, capitalism has failed and collapsed into what is effectively an oligarchal corporatism (not sure if that's the right word). Jobs get exported overseas while wages get kept low for the average citizen in an increasingly starved job market. Prices go up through inflation while incomes remain stagnant or even go down. Many people need multiple jobs just to be able to be classified as 'poor'. Meanwhile the heads of major companies horde wealth to the point where they could probably use $100 bills as fireplace logs and not even notice. They seem to dictate policies and hold sway in government equal to, if not superior to, people. Many go to college for degrees and get into massive debt only to find a job market that puts them on-par with the people who never went to college if not worse off due to 'lack of experience' and so-forth. When presented with that it's easy to believe that capitalism has unconditionally failed due to the personal misery many live in. I suspect a lot of people don't so much 'support communism' as they are 'sick of capitalism and want it gone' and they're willing to take ANYTHING to replace it and Communism has that nice promise of helping the worker out... --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962906492] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>adjl posted... </cite> <quote>So... Capitalism, with socialist policies applied as needed to prevent that capitalism from reducing people's quality of life? What a novel concept that I'm sure nobody has suggested before as being a way to improve countries that are taking capitalism too far.</quote> I wouldn't call it that. It's more of capitalism with a government in place that has placed a higher value on the quality of life for it's citizens than other endeavors. The high taxes simply add more fuel for them to burn in the fire to keep the engine going. For better or worse a lot of America's wealth goes into things like the military which a lot of these other nations simply don't do. It's made America arguably the strongest military in the world, but it's also COSTLY! I'm not going to debate if America should or shouldn't be doing that, just accepting that it is. I'm certain that if America adjusted it's budget percentages (within reason) to mirror many of these nations we'd see a drastic QoL improvement for all of America's citizens but it wouldn't be without sacrifices. I also feel like a lot of Americans have come out against capitalism because, for all intents and purposes, capitalism has failed and collapsed into what is effectively an oligarchal corporatism (not sure if that's the right word). Jobs get exported overseas while wages get kept low for the average citizen in an increasingly starved job market. Prices go up through inflation while incomes remain stagnant or even go down. Many people need multiple jobs just to be able to be classified as 'poor'. Meanwhile the heads of major companies horde wealth to the point where they could probably use $100 bills as fireplace logs and not even notice. They seem to dictate policies and hold sway in government equal to, if not superior to, people. Many go to college for degrees and get into massive debt only to find a job market that puts them on-par with the people who never went to college if not worse off due to 'lack of experience' and so-forth. When presented with that it's easy to believe that capitalism has unconditionally failed due to the personal misery many live in. I suspect a lot of people don't so much 'support communism' as they are 'sick of capitalism and want it gone' and they're willing to take ANYTHING to replace it and Communism has that nice promise of helping the worker out... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/23/22 5:58:26 PM #19:	Continue spouting off the propaganda you've been brainwashed your entire life to believe, but all you sound like is Tuck Carlson: See, here's the thing. All the examples and things I mentioned are REAL. It's not propaganda. I can point to things like how China treats it's citizens terribly, the horrors of the gulags, the starvation in North Korea, and so-forth. You can't point to an example of a 'real communism/communism done right/whatever'. Because it doesn't exist. --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962906610] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Continue spouting off the propaganda you've been brainwashed your entire life to believe, but all you sound like is Tuck Carlson: See, here's the thing. All the examples and things I mentioned are REAL. It's not propaganda. I can point to things like how China treats it's citizens terribly, the horrors of the gulags, the starvation in North Korea, and so-forth. You can't point to an example of a 'real communism/communism done right/whatever'. Because it doesn't exist. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/23/22 6:20:01 PM #20:	Unbridled9 posted... China ... North Korea And neither are communist states except in name only, but because you've been told and conditioned to believe this is what communism looks like, you will continue to parrot that misconception. We'll make it simple for you: Do you believe in democracy? Yes or No --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962907261] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>China ... North Korea</quote> And neither are communist states except in name only, but because you've been told and conditioned to believe this is what communism looks like, you will continue to parrot that misconception. We'll make it simple for you: Do you believe in democracy? Yes or No </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/23/22 6:39:20 PM #21:	And neither are communist states except in name only, but because you've been told and conditioned to believe this is what communism looks like, you will continue to parrot that misconception. We'll make it simple for you: Do you believe in democracy? Yes or No Irrelevant (I don't believe 51% should be able to dictate what the other 49% does, but I do believe that a government should be representative of the people it governs as opposed to a opposed to a select faction of elites and should serve it's people instead of said elites). I reject communism. You'll notice that all these nations claim they have it, yet in practice they don't in the slightest. You don't seem to understand that you're presenting a 'no true Scotsman' type fallacy. I.E. presenting your idea from counter-examples by excluding them. Russia, China, North Korea, Vietnam, etc. All nations that claimed to be communist and, for all practical intents and purposes, are. Yet you are excluding them because 'they're not true communisms' while ignoring that either, A) this IS true communism or B) any attempt to form a 'true communism' will inevitably be destroyed and turned into a despotic regime. So pick your poison. It either fails because it's core idea is inherently flawed and promises a system it can't deliver... Or it fails because it creates a system that is so easily exploited by despots and elites that it can never exist for long, if at all. I find it funny that you're accusing me of brainwashing when your entire argument is an uninventive and generic 'real communism has never been tried' while I'm presenting real-world examples, showing why it can't work via written examples, and so-forth. All while you repeat lines that, no doubt, were likely taught to you by your college professor and you're repeating without a thought or question. --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962907830] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote> <quote>And neither are communist states except in name only, but because you've been told and conditioned to believe this is what communism looks like, you will continue to parrot that misconception. We'll make it simple for you: Do you believe in democracy? Yes or No</quote> Irrelevant (I don't believe 51% should be able to dictate what the other 49% does, but I do believe that a government should be representative of the people it governs as opposed to a opposed to a select faction of elites and should serve it's people instead of said elites). I reject communism. You'll notice that all these nations claim they have it, yet in practice they don't in the slightest. You don't seem to understand that you're presenting a 'no true Scotsman' type fallacy. I.E. presenting your idea from counter-examples by excluding them. Russia, China, North Korea, Vietnam, etc. All nations that claimed to be communist and, for all practical intents and purposes, are. Yet you are excluding them because 'they're not true communisms' while ignoring that either, A) this IS true communism or B) any attempt to form a 'true communism' will inevitably be destroyed and turned into a despotic regime. So pick your poison. It either fails because it's core idea is inherently flawed and promises a system it can't deliver... Or it fails because it creates a system that is so easily exploited by despots and elites that it can never exist for long, if at all. I find it funny that you're accusing me of brainwashing when your entire argument is an uninventive and generic 'real communism has never been tried' while I'm presenting real-world examples, showing why it can't work via written examples, and so-forth. All while you repeat lines that, no doubt, were likely taught to you by your college professor and you're repeating without a thought or question. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/23/22 8:50:42 PM #22:	KodyKeir posted... Do you believe in democracy? Yes or No Unbridled9 posted... Irrelevant (I don't believe 51% should be able to dictate what the other 49% does, So no. And there's the answer; socialism is incompatible with your core beliefs. Nothing I say will ever change that or convince you otherwise; it is not worth taking the time to explain how wrong you are. (BTW in Canada where we have five and a half major federal parties, 36% constitutes a majority) --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962911705] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>KodyKeir posted... </cite> <quote>Do you believe in democracy? Yes or No</quote> Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>Irrelevant (I don't believe 51% should be able to dictate what the other 49% does,</quote> So no. And there's the answer; socialism is incompatible with your core beliefs. Nothing I say will ever change that or convince you otherwise; it is not worth taking the time to explain how wrong you are. (BTW in Canada where we have five and a half major federal parties, 36% constitutes a majority) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BEERandWEED 02/23/22 8:53:44 PM #23:	A left vs. right murder, how convenient for the left vs. right mass media. --- Always have a hamms in hand. <cite>BEERandWEED posted [p:962911789] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>A left vs. right murder, how convenient for the left vs. right mass media. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/23/22 11:32:06 PM #24:	So no. And there's the answer; socialism is incompatible with your core beliefs. Nothing I say will ever change that or convince you otherwise; it is not worth taking the time to explain how wrong you are. (BTW in Canada where we have five and a half major federal parties, 36% constitutes a majority) I said it was irrelevant. Which it is. If your argument for communism depends entirely on me living in a democratic nation, than you don't have an argument. Likewise, if your argument can be undone by me simply NOT agreeing with democracy, you don't have an argument. Remember, this is not about 'convincing me'; this is about if communism WORKS. What if I was FROM a communist nation like Venezuela or China and said communism didn't work and democracy was being abused to maintain the powers of a despot and, thusly, I didn't believe in it anymore? Would you have a case then? Also, I find it hilarious that you claim I don't believe in democracy when all I said was that I don't believe 51% should be able to dictate what the other 49% does. Especially when I followed it up by saying I did believe a government should represent and serve it's people as opposed to a select group of elites. It's almost like I believe in democracy but not that a simple majority vote is the right way to do it. --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962916468] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote><quote>So no. And there's the answer; socialism is incompatible with your core beliefs. Nothing I say will ever change that or convince you otherwise; it is not worth taking the time to explain how wrong you are. (BTW in Canada where we have five and a half major federal parties, 36% constitutes a majority)</quote> I said it was irrelevant. Which it is. If your argument for communism depends entirely on me living in a democratic nation, than you don't have an argument. Likewise, if your argument can be undone by me simply NOT agreeing with democracy, you don't have an argument. Remember, this is not about 'convincing me'; this is about if communism WORKS. What if I was FROM a communist nation like Venezuela or China and said communism didn't work and democracy was being abused to maintain the powers of a despot and, thusly, I didn't believe in it anymore? Would you have a case then? Also, I find it hilarious that you claim I don't believe in democracy when all I said was that I don't believe 51% should be able to dictate what the other 49% does. Especially when I followed it up by saying I did believe a government should represent and serve it's people as opposed to a select group of elites. It's almost like I believe in democracy but not that a simple majority vote is the right way to do it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/24/22 12:01:25 AM #25:	Unbridled9 posted... I don't believe in democracy Democracy is inherently a socialist concept; you don't believe in democracy and you don't believe in socialism. You see fascist states and mislabel them communist and scream "Communism Bad" while never actually knowing what communism is. You only double down on your misinformed position while ignoring everything else There is no way to have a good faith argument with you, so I won't bother to try and hold one. --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962917200] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>I don't believe in democracy</quote> Democracy is inherently a socialist concept; you don't believe in democracy and you don't believe in socialism. You see fascist states and mislabel them communist and scream "Communism Bad" while never actually knowing what communism is. You only double down on your misinformed position while ignoring everything else There is no way to have a good faith argument with you, so I won't bother to try and hold one. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ozmose 02/24/22 3:04:00 AM #26:	KodyKeir posted... Democracy is inherently a socialist concept; you don't believe in democracy and you don't believe in socialism. You see fascist states and mislabel them communist and scream "Communism Bad" while never actually knowing what communism is. You only double down on your misinformed position while ignoring everything else There is no way to have a good faith argument with you, so I won't bother to try and hold one. I don't see how you can take the philosophy of Karl Marx seriously. I don't know how anyone can. The guy was a huge fucking hypocrite. He was a little rich boy born and raised. Even when he was in exile he lived in a big house full of servants at his beckoned call. --- Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. - Oscar Wilde <cite>Ozmose posted [p:962920234] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>KodyKeir posted... </cite> <quote>Democracy is inherently a socialist concept; you don't believe in democracy and you don't believe in socialism. You see fascist states and mislabel them communist and scream "Communism Bad" while never actually knowing what communism is. You only double down on your misinformed position while ignoring everything else There is no way to have a good faith argument with you, so I won't bother to try and hold one.</quote>I don't see how you can take the philosophy of Karl Marx seriously. I don't know how anyone can. The guy was a huge fucking hypocrite. He was a little rich boy born and raised. Even when he was in exile he lived in a big house full of servants at his beckoned call. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/24/22 4:09:11 AM #27:	Democracy is inherently a socialist concept; you don't believe in democracy and you don't believe in socialism. You see fascist states and mislabel them communist and scream "Communism Bad" while never actually knowing what communism is. You only double down on your misinformed position while ignoring everything else There is no way to have a good faith argument with you, so I won't bother to try and hold one. Considering you didn't even read what I said, I would say it's the other way around. I literally said ' It's almost like I believe in democracy but not that a simple majority vote is the right way to do it.' You know... Like I believe in Democracy just not the whole 'simple majority' rule. You've also not only put the cart (socialism) before the horse (democracy), but your cart is a wardrobe instead of a cart. In other words, if anything, socialism would a democratic concept as democracy not only came first as a political concept (dating all the way back to ancient Greece and, itself, is an off-shoot of Republics), but socialism really has nothing to do with democracy. After all, what happens when the people democratically vote to reject socialism and communism? This isn't to even mention you've deluded yourself into a extreme black/white mentality in which any form of governance in which the common man holds a vote or a nation enacts a public welfare program is an inherently socialist concept and couldn't/wouldn't happen under a capitalist system. But hey, you keep trying a generic argument parroted a thousand times over by ignorant college youths who got brainwashed by a professor who claim to be intelligent yet also keep believing that real communism will work THIS time if they click their heels together three times and all those other communists weren't the inevitable result of such a system while calling ME misinformed on the matter. Heck, what even IS your argument? That, somehow, I have no knowledge of Communism because I haven't read that book (While it seems you haven't read history books or stuff like Animal Farm)? Why do you even think it 'will be different' this time? --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962920984] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote> <quote>Democracy is inherently a socialist concept; you don't believe in democracy and you don't believe in socialism. You see fascist states and mislabel them communist and scream "Communism Bad" while never actually knowing what communism is. You only double down on your misinformed position while ignoring everything else There is no way to have a good faith argument with you, so I won't bother to try and hold one.</quote> Considering you didn't even read what I said, I would say it's the other way around. I literally said ' It's almost like I believe in democracy but not that a simple majority vote is the right way to do it.' You know... Like I believe in Democracy just not the whole 'simple majority' rule. You've also not only put the cart (socialism) before the horse (democracy), but your cart is a wardrobe instead of a cart. In other words, if anything, socialism would a democratic concept as democracy not only came first as a political concept (dating all the way back to ancient Greece and, itself, is an off-shoot of Republics), but socialism really has nothing to do with democracy. After all, what happens when the people democratically vote to reject socialism and communism? This isn't to even mention you've deluded yourself into a extreme black/white mentality in which any form of governance in which the common man holds a vote or a nation enacts a public welfare program is an inherently socialist concept and couldn't/wouldn't happen under a capitalist system. But hey, you keep trying a generic argument parroted a thousand times over by ignorant college youths who got brainwashed by a professor who claim to be intelligent yet also keep believing that real communism will work THIS time if they click their heels together three times and all those other communists weren't the inevitable result of such a system while calling ME misinformed on the matter. Heck, what even IS your argument? That, somehow, I have no knowledge of Communism because I haven't read that book (While it seems you haven't read history books or stuff like Animal Farm)? Why do you even think it 'will be different' this time? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kind9 02/24/22 4:53:33 AM #28:	KodyKeir posted... Democracy is inherently a socialist concept; you don't believe in democracy and you don't believe in socialism. You see fascist states and mislabel them communist and scream "Communism Bad" while never actually knowing what communism is. You only double down on your misinformed position while ignoring everything else There is no way to have a good faith argument with you, so I won't bother to try and hold one. Out of curiosity do you consider socialism and communism to be the same? Is there something wrong with democratic socialism that you prefer full on communism? --- http://i.imgur.com/NkZUeFd.gif <cite>kind9 posted [p:962921482] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>KodyKeir posted... </cite> <quote>Democracy is inherently a socialist concept; you don't believe in democracy and you don't believe in socialism. You see fascist states and mislabel them communist and scream "Communism Bad" while never actually knowing what communism is. You only double down on your misinformed position while ignoring everything else There is no way to have a good faith argument with you, so I won't bother to try and hold one.</quote>Out of curiosity do you consider socialism and communism to be the same? Is there something wrong with democratic socialism that you prefer full on communism? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/24/22 5:03:52 PM #29:	Unbridled9 posted... I have no knowledge of Communism because I haven't read that book All you've done is parrot radical right talking points while you refuse to actually learn what communism is. kind9 posted... Out of curiosity do you consider socialism and communism to be the same? No. Socialism can be a step toward communist ideals but still requires a form of capitalism to function. kind9 posted... Is there something wrong with democratic socialism that you prefer full on communism? No, and I never said I prefer communism over democratic socialism. KodyKeir posted... Capitalism will one day end, the choice we have is whether it will end with the destruction of the human species, or with the concerted effort to shift to a new economy. Communism is merely that shift from our current state to some new paradigm more aligned with a civilized society. We will never achieve a communist economy in my lifetime, but we can have a more socialist one as part of the process of shifting away from capitalism. --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962938608] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>I have no knowledge of Communism because I haven't read that book</quote> All you've done is parrot radical right talking points while you refuse to actually learn what communism is. kind9 posted... </cite> <quote>Out of curiosity do you consider socialism and communism to be the same?</quote> No. Socialism can be a step toward communist ideals but still requires a form of capitalism to function. kind9 posted... </cite> <quote>Is there something wrong with democratic socialism that you prefer full on communism?</quote> No, and I never said I prefer communism over democratic socialism. KodyKeir posted... </cite> <quote>Capitalism will one day end, the choice we have is whether it will end with the destruction of the human species, or with the concerted effort to shift to a new economy. Communism is merely that shift from our current state to some new paradigm more aligned with a civilized society.</quote> We will never achieve a communist economy in my lifetime, but we can have a more socialist one as part of the process of shifting away from capitalism. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/24/22 5:17:15 PM #30:	Unbridled9 posted... Animal Farm Speaking of failing to read, if your take away from Animal Farm was "Communism = Bad" you grossly missed the point. (Orwell was a socialist btw) --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962938983] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>Animal Farm</quote> Speaking of failing to read, if your take away from Animal Farm was "Communism = Bad" you grossly missed the point. (Orwell was a socialist btw) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66 02/24/22 5:29:39 PM #31:	Yeah the whole point of Animal Farm was that corrupt people in power can warp the best of intentions --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. <cite>Metalsonic66 posted [p:962939368] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Yeah the whole point of Animal Farm was that corrupt people in power can warp the best of intentions </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/25/22 1:59:01 PM #32:	Metalsonic66 posted... Yeah the whole point of Animal Farm was that corrupt people in power can warp the best of intentions You seemed to have missed the whole point. It's a fairy tail retelling of the rise of the Soviet Union using the story of an animal farm as a medium (for example, Snowball is Trotsky, Napoleon is Stalin). The point that it tries to drive home the hardest is that, even though the farm STARTED with seemingly-good intentions, it was doomed to fail almost right from the start. The animals were both unwilling to stand up to Napoleon's abuses of power and incapable of understanding that his power was even BEING abused in the first place. That's how the commandments go from 'Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. No animal shall wear clothes. No animal shall sleep in a bed. No animal shall drink alcohol. No animal shall kill any other animal. All animals are equal.' to being ruled by a group of pigs who break every one of those rules with 'All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others' as their only remaining commandment and not even being able to remember IF there were other commandments and, as I recall, other human farmers noting how he'd managed to deprive his animals of even more feed and get more productivity and what they could do to do the same to their own farms. I don't see how you go from a distinct retelling of the Soviet Union and it's many failings and shortcomings to 'it's about how corrupt people can warp the best of intentions'. The whole POINT is that communism is bad as the animals routinely suffer and have their lot in life made worse while the pigs accrue more and more power, even selling one of them off 'to the knacker' to make a quick buck. While it's true that the good intention was corrupted by the pigs in charge, that's not the whole point of the novel. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. In the end they cannot tell the difference between the pigs (who claimed to have been doing their best for the animals) and the oppressive humans (whom they rebelled against). All you've done is parrot radical right talking points while you refuse to actually learn what communism is. Communism is what brought misery and death to millions upon millions of people who lived horrific lifestyles yet were deluded into believing they were better than in the evil, capitalist, west by their government espousing the belief that they were 'for the people' while enacting mono-party absolutist rule and stripping away every right they could have possibly had in the process. 'Communism hasn't really been tried.' is a fantasy told by worthless college professors to students who don't know any better because they believe that, with enough pixie dust, unicorn tears, and a pot of leprechauns gold, it will be different THIS time. --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962963002] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Metalsonic66 posted... </cite> <quote>Yeah the whole point of Animal Farm was that corrupt people in power can warp the best of intentions</quote> You seemed to have missed the whole point. It's a fairy tail retelling of the rise of the Soviet Union using the story of an animal farm as a medium (for example, Snowball is Trotsky, Napoleon is Stalin). The point that it tries to drive home the hardest is that, even though the farm STARTED with seemingly-good intentions, it was doomed to fail almost right from the start. The animals were both unwilling to stand up to Napoleon's abuses of power and incapable of understanding that his power was even BEING abused in the first place. That's how the commandments go from 'Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend. No animal shall wear clothes. No animal shall sleep in a bed. No animal shall drink alcohol. No animal shall kill any other animal. All animals are equal.' to being ruled by a group of pigs who break every one of those rules with 'All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others' as their only remaining commandment and not even being able to remember IF there were other commandments and, as I recall, other human farmers noting how he'd managed to deprive his animals of even more feed and get more productivity and what they could do to do the same to their own farms.I don't see how you go from a distinct retelling of the Soviet Union and it's many failings and shortcomings to 'it's about how corrupt people can warp the best of intentions'. The whole POINT is that communism is bad as the animals routinely suffer and have their lot in life made worse while the pigs accrue more and more power, even selling one of them off 'to the knacker' to make a quick buck. While it's true that the good intention was corrupted by the pigs in charge, that's not the whole point of the novel. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. In the end they cannot tell the difference between the pigs (who claimed to have been doing their best for the animals) and the oppressive humans (whom they rebelled against). All you've done is parrot radical right talking points while you refuse to actually learn what communism is. Communism is what brought misery and death to millions upon millions of people who lived horrific lifestyles yet were deluded into believing they were better than in the evil, capitalist, west by their government espousing the belief that they were 'for the people' while enacting mono-party absolutist rule and stripping away every right they could have possibly had in the process. 'Communism hasn't really been tried.' is a fantasy told by worthless college professors to students who don't know any better because they believe that, with enough pixie dust, unicorn tears, and a pot of leprechauns gold, it will be different THIS time. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/25/22 2:17:09 PM #33:	Unbridled9 posted... Heck, what even IS your argument? That those who criticize communism often no nought what they talk of. And on cue, as if summoned by magic to prove my point Unbridled9 posted... communism is bad --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962963514] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>Heck, what even IS your argument?</quote> That those who criticize communism often no nought what they talk of. And on cue, as if summoned by magic to prove my point Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>communism is bad</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/25/22 4:48:12 PM #34:	That those who criticize communism often no nought what they talk of. And on cue, as if summoned by magic to prove my point My point is that Communism is a system of government that brings nothing but death and misery, not only fails in it's intended goal but swings in the opposite direction so hard it's extremely difficult for a modern mind to comprehend, provides a breeding ground for corruption that's not just ample but effectively ensured by it's very nature, and the people defending it blindly believe that it hasn't been tried before because their professors told them so and this time it will be different without even providing a reason as to why it MIGHT be different in the slightest, effectively relying on wishes to change things. Let me ask, let's say you have your perfect communist utopia. How will you ensure everyone is equal? Who will hold the power to ensure equality, or that the workers hold the power, or whatever you plan on claiming? How will you hold them accountable? How will you stop them from abusing their power? Who will decide what goods need to be produced, what labor is required, and how said labor is performed? How will you reconcile the uneducated but hard working with the educated but lazy? What about people who produce goods that hold no direct value like art, music, or the like? What about luxury goods like smart phones, non-utilitarian cars, jewelry, reclining chairs, and such? Does a man who has a dog deserve more food than a man who doesn't have one or does he need to feed the dog from his own food ration? How will you even decide how to distribute things like food and wealth? How many hours do you think you will be REQUIRED to work or that everyone will work hard to maintain the system while you live a decent life working 10 hours a week if at all? Have you even thought this through? I don't believe that capitalism is a perfect system. I would argue that we're no longer in a capitalist system and have transitioned into some form of corporate oligarchy. I certainly support some issues such as universal healthcare as I believe they will help out many people. This system certainly needs fixing and changing. However, claiming that, not only Communism is the solution, but that 'real communism hasn't been tried yet' is insane. If you cannot muster up a real argument here, than we're done. --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962967527] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote><quote>That those who criticize communism often no nought what they talk of. And on cue, as if summoned by magic to prove my point</quote> My point is that Communism is a system of government that brings nothing but death and misery, not only fails in it's intended goal but swings in the opposite direction so hard it's extremely difficult for a modern mind to comprehend, provides a breeding ground for corruption that's not just ample but effectively ensured by it's very nature, and the people defending it blindly believe that it hasn't been tried before because their professors told them so and this time it will be different without even providing a reason as to why it MIGHT be different in the slightest, effectively relying on wishes to change things. Let me ask, let's say you have your perfect communist utopia. How will you ensure everyone is equal? Who will hold the power to ensure equality, or that the workers hold the power, or whatever you plan on claiming? How will you hold them accountable? How will you stop them from abusing their power? Who will decide what goods need to be produced, what labor is required, and how said labor is performed? How will you reconcile the uneducated but hard working with the educated but lazy? What about people who produce goods that hold no direct value like art, music, or the like? What about luxury goods like smart phones, non-utilitarian cars, jewelry, reclining chairs, and such? Does a man who has a dog deserve more food than a man who doesn't have one or does he need to feed the dog from his own food ration? How will you even decide how to distribute things like food and wealth? How many hours do you think you will be REQUIRED to work or that everyone will work hard to maintain the system while you live a decent life working 10 hours a week if at all? Have you even thought this through? I don't believe that capitalism is a perfect system. I would argue that we're no longer in a capitalist system and have transitioned into some form of corporate oligarchy. I certainly support some issues such as universal healthcare as I believe they will help out many people. This system certainly needs fixing and changing. However, claiming that, not only Communism is the solution, but that 'real communism hasn't been tried yet' is insane. If you cannot muster up a real argument here, than we're done. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/25/22 5:11:00 PM #35:	The word you are looking for is: *"Fascism"* Conflating the two is ignorant but then... Unbridled9 posted... I don't believe in democracy --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962968133] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>The word you are looking for is: "Fascism" Conflating the two is ignorant but then... Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>I don't believe in democracy</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66 02/25/22 5:15:08 PM #36:	Unbridled9 posted... You seemed to have missed the whole point Nah I don't think so Unbridled9 posted... It's a fairy tail retelling of the rise of the Soviet Union using the story of an animal farm as a medium Yes, like I said. Unbridled9 posted... even though the farm STARTED with seemingly-good intentions, it was doomed to fail almost right from the start. The animals were both unwilling to stand up to Napoleon's abuses of power and incapable of understanding that his power was even BEING abused in the first place. Yes, like I said. --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. <cite>Metalsonic66 posted [p:962968263] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>You seemed to have missed the whole point</quote>Nah I don't think so Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>It's a fairy tail retelling of the rise of the Soviet Union using the story of an animal farm as a medium</quote>Yes, like I said. Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>even though the farm STARTED with seemingly-good intentions, it was doomed to fail almost right from the start. The animals were both unwilling to stand up to Napoleon's abuses of power and incapable of understanding that his power was even BEING abused in the first place.</quote>Yes, like I said. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Unbridled9 02/25/22 7:35:10 PM #37:	The problem with that is that there was no way that what happened on the farm wouldn't have inevitably happened. Even in some hypothetical setting in which both Snowball and Napoleon got turned into sausage before the uprising you would still have had a bunch of animals who would have been in a leaderless society that would, almost inevitably, fallen apart the moment someone took power. While Benjamin would likely have been the best choice and he likely would not have treated the animals anywhere near as badly as the pigs (it's very difficult to tell when dealing with what-ifs) you'd still inevitably have had a system that defeats itself. The farm would still need to produce to survive, work would still have needed to have been done, and it would have been impossible to maintain the preached philosophy. While it would be nice to believe that 'four legs/wings = good, two legs = bad' especially given what the other farmers tried, it would be inevitable that other farmers would have appeared. There are only two ways that the system could have progressed without the animals coming under the sway of humans once again. Namely some animal rises to take the role of farmer who owns the property and manages it like a farmer (granted, very likely a better one than Napoleon) or there is a mass collapse of society (at least at the local level) resulting in the humans leaving and the area becoming 'wild'. Or, to take it out of fairy-tale stories, a communist society in which everyone is equal/the workers own the means of production/etc. cannot exist on a macro-scale because either products and labor needs to happen which means the development of, at the very least, a worker and manager class; or you live in a society in which said things are not required which means effective regression to pre-historic levels. It's why small-scale communes can work for a time. Because the workload to maintain twenty to fifty people is relatively small and those present are willing to give up a lot of things to live at what is, effectively, a basic level. But once you try to move beyond that it simply doesn't work or apply anymore. Or, put another way, the animals dream was doomed to failure right from the start because it's not how the world works unless they were also willing to escape into the wild. That the pigs were cruel masters who abused their power just doomed the situation harder. Likewise, even a commune that did, somehow, purge itself of corruption would be doomed to failure as, in order to keep running and functioning as a society, it would need to betray its core principles. Equality, worker-controlled, call it what you like. You have a bunch of workers just producing with no oversight you get nowhere and each type of work holds different values and so-forth. You can never achieve the ideals Marx laid out because they are a fantasy that sounds sweet but is unobtainable until such times as labor itself becomes irrelevant. --- No more shall man have wings to bear him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk. - Venat <cite>Unbridled9 posted [p:962971797] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>The problem with that is that there was no way that what happened on the farm wouldn't have inevitably happened. Even in some hypothetical setting in which both Snowball and Napoleon got turned into sausage before the uprising you would still have had a bunch of animals who would have been in a leaderless society that would, almost inevitably, fallen apart the moment someone took power. While Benjamin would likely have been the best choice and he likely would not have treated the animals anywhere near as badly as the pigs (it's very difficult to tell when dealing with what-ifs) you'd still inevitably have had a system that defeats itself. The farm would still need to produce to survive, work would still have needed to have been done, and it would have been impossible to maintain the preached philosophy. While it would be nice to believe that 'four legs/wings = good, two legs = bad' especially given what the other farmers tried, it would be inevitable that other farmers would have appeared. There are only two ways that the system could have progressed without the animals coming under the sway of humans once again. Namely some animal rises to take the role of farmer who owns the property and manages it like a farmer (granted, very likely a better one than Napoleon) or there is a mass collapse of society (at least at the local level) resulting in the humans leaving and the area becoming 'wild'. Or, to take it out of fairy-tale stories, a communist society in which everyone is equal/the workers own the means of production/etc. cannot exist on a macro-scale because either products and labor needs to happen which means the development of, at the very least, a worker and manager class; or you live in a society in which said things are not required which means effective regression to pre-historic levels. It's why small-scale communes can work for a time. Because the workload to maintain twenty to fifty people is relatively small and those present are willing to give up a lot of things to live at what is, effectively, a basic level. But once you try to move beyond that it simply doesn't work or apply anymore. Or, put another way, the animals dream was doomed to failure right from the start because it's not how the world works unless they were also willing to escape into the wild. That the pigs were cruel masters who abused their power just doomed the situation harder. Likewise, even a commune that did, somehow, purge itself of corruption would be doomed to failure as, in order to keep running and functioning as a society, it would need to betray its core principles. Equality, worker-controlled, call it what you like. You have a bunch of workers just producing with no oversight you get nowhere and each type of work holds different values and so-forth. You can never achieve the ideals Marx laid out because they are a fantasy that sounds sweet but is unobtainable until such times as labor itself becomes irrelevant. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Metalsonic66 02/25/22 10:08:19 PM #38:	Unbridled9 posted... unobtainable Yes because Metalsonic66 posted... corrupt people in power can warp the best of intentions --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. <cite>Metalsonic66 posted [p:962975566] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>unobtainable</quote>Yes because Metalsonic66 posted... </cite> <quote>corrupt people in power can warp the best of intentions</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KodyKeir 02/25/22 10:21:46 PM #39:	Unbridled9 posted... doomed to failure right from the start C- And I'm being generous. --- Why didn't you DODGE‽‽‽ Quoting me will trigger the profanity filter, Not Joking. I've been Scunthorped! Consider yourself warned. <cite>KodyKeir posted [p:962975895] in 60 y/o Ant... [t:79911343]...</cite> <quote>Unbridled9 posted... </cite> <quote>doomed to failure right from the start</quote> C- And I'm being generous. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Poll of the Day > 60 y/o Antifa Activist is MURDERED by a Far-Right Man with a FURRY FETISH!!! (+) Yeah! (+)

Poll of the Day > 60 y/o Antifa Activist is MURDERED by a Far-Right Man with a FURRY FETISH!!!