Poll of the Day > Which did you like more? The Last Jedi or Rogue One?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think Rogue One is giant donkey doo doo, but The Last Jedi gets better each time I see it.

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I liked both. When I first saw Rogue One I thought it was good not great, and thats how I still feel about it. Like dont get me wrong, the whole Scarif battle at the end was awesome and of course the Vader scene was the best part of the movie, but it just didnt feel like a Star Wars movie to me.

When I saw The Last Jedi, I thought it was fine. Definitely not as good as The Force Awakens, but not bad. The movie gets way way too much hate. To the point where I feel like Ive been seeing a different movie than everyone else this whole time. We all agree that Leia flying through space was dumb, and the whole thing with the casino was pretty meh, but other than that its still a damned good movie (Id still put it second last on my ranking of the nine main movies though lol).

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rogue one was the best of the recent starwars... better than 1 2 and 3.

cuz LASERS... ffs, it's SPACE, shoot something!?

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I actually liked Rogue One better than any of the new main SW movies. The pacing was slow at first but picked up and the final third was really good.

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I would like Rogue one better if the mentioned womp rats when talking about the Death Star.

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They were both good for very different reasons.

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Don't wanna say 'Disliked', but I wasn't 'Blown Away' by either of them on 1st viewing in Theaters...but R1 grown on me, and works waaayyyyy better on the small screen, IMO

As for the TLJ, it's not a 'Bad' film in itself (kinda felt like a ST film/esp), just handles the SW lore/ST continuity badly...

I really liked Rogue One. Hated the last Jedi. Canto Blight seemed like it was entirely done to hamfist some loosely connected political statements into the movie. I hated Rose, Laura Dern's character, the orphan kids, and more than anything the 'humor' that felt way too forced

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^Basically thrown in there to give Finn/Rose something to in the film...like Rian didn't even wanna be bothered with those characters (along with Phasma, etc)

Rogue One is not only better than TLJ, it's better than any other Star Wars movie (though I haven't seen RoS or Solo yet to compare them).

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adjl posted...

Rogue One is not only better than TLJ, it's better than any other Star Wars movie (though I haven't seen RoS or Solo yet to compare them).

Everyones entitled to their opinion, but I cant imagine placing Rogue One above any of the others. I really wish I could see this movie the way others do.

Id like it more if the characters werent so damn forgettable. I remember when I first saw The Force Awakens, I loved all the new characters right away. With Rogue One, most of them are just meh. Except K-2SO. And Jyn, but mainly because shes hot af

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rexcrk posted...

Everyones entitled to their opinion, but I cant imagine placing Rogue One above any of the others. I really wish I could see this movie the way others do.

Id like it more if the characters werent so damn forgettable. I remember when I first saw The Force Awakens, I loved all the new characters right away. With Rogue One, most of them are just meh. Except K-2SO. And Jyn, but mainly because shes hot af

I think a lot of the reason Rogue One is so polarizing is because there are two broad classes of Star Wars fans: People who like it for the story/lore/characters, and people who like it for the pew pew space adventures. Character-wise, Rogue One sucks. Everybody is disposable (which worked out when they were later disposed of) and really just has the bare minimum personality they need to advance the film. Its fight/action scenes, however, are some of the best the series has to offer.

Personally, I valued the action aspects highly enough to ignore the weaknesses in characters, such that it's one of my favourite Star Wars movies. For those who were looking for more insights into existing characters or for interesting new characters to be added to the series' canon, though, I can understand why it would have been a disappointment.

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I liked both, but I liked Rogue One more. It is the best of the Disney-era films and falls only behind the original trilogy in terms of quality.

rexcrk posted...

Id like it more if the characters werent so damn forgettable.

I mean, you really don't watch RO for the characters. Most of them are just one-note paper cutouts - some do their role well (Chirrut and Baz, K-2SO), some are eminently forgettable, but they're all just there because, hey, someone has to be.

But the action sequences in this movie are So. Damn. Good. The last battle is phenomenal, the scene where the group is fleeing from Jehda is amazing (especially when the movie was still in theatre) and "the scene" at the end of the movie is the single best in all of Star Wars, with the sole exception of the end of RotJ's duel.

When I first saw RO, I was almost completely tuned out after the first half, but the movie pulled itself together for the second half enough for me to thoroughly enjoy it. Subsequent viewings gave me a much better impression overall.

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people who think 7,8 and 9 were good additions to the series would have probably enjoyed anything disney pumped out lol

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

people who think 7,8 and 9 were good additions to the series would have probably enjoyed anything disney pumped out lol

7 and 8 were fun movies. They're nowhere near as good as the originals, but those are classics, and they're a huge step up over the prequels, which were absolute dross.

9 was a trainwreck. Palpatine was pretty much the only good part of that entire film and he shouldn't even have been in it in the first place.

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darkknight109 posted...

I mean, you really don't watch RO for the characters. Most of them are just one-note paper cutouts - some do their role well (Chirrut and Baz, K-2SO), some are eminently forgettable, but they're all just there because, hey, someone has to be.

Thats the worst possible endorsement for a movie lol

Why would I watch something if half the cast only exists out of some weird obligation to have people around?

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darkknight109 posted...

they're a huge step up over the prequels

wrong. They definitely had their problems but they at least tell an interesting and original story that doesnt ruin the OT characters legacy. I would hate the sequel movies a lot less if they had just decided to set them way in the future and they had nothing to do with Luke, leia and han.

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PK_Spam posted...

Thats the worst possible endorsement for a movie lol

Why would I watch something if half the cast only exists out of some weird obligation to have people around?

Because EXPLOSIONS.

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adjl posted...

I think a lot of the reason Rogue One is so polarizing is because there are two broad classes of Star Wars fans: People who like it for the story/lore/characters, and people who like it for the pew pew space adventures. Character-wise, Rogue One sucks. Everybody is disposable (which worked out when they were later disposed of) and really just has the bare minimum personality they need to advance the film. Its fight/action scenes, however, are some of the best the series has to offer.

Personally, I valued the action aspects highly enough to ignore the weaknesses in characters, such that it's one of my favourite Star Wars movies. For those who were looking for more insights into existing characters or for interesting new characters to be added to the series' canon, though, I can understand why it would have been a disappointment.

It's the Star Wars film that most captures the "War Film" aspect since at least ESB, if not ANH. The last act is unquestionably the best Star Wars battle on the big screen. The rest of it is middling, but not bad.

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Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the potential the Star Wars universe has for interesting stories and characters

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I'd also add Rogue One straddles this nice line (that Mandalorian starddles as well) where it's all "remember this thing that you like please clap" while still doing something that feels different.

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adjl posted...

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the potential the Star Wars universe has for interesting stories and characters

People overstate how bad a lot of the characters are. If anything there's just too many of them given how busy the story already is. Donnie Yen is lame. The pilot is lame. The gun guy is lame.

Krennic, Galen, Jyn, droid and dude are all solid, if underdeveloped. They suit their purpose.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

People overstate how bad a lot of the characters are.

Honestly, people overstate how good the mainline movies' characters are. They're better than Rogue One's, certainly, especially where they get ~3 films to develop instead of one, but most of the real depth and interesting experiences they have are only really found in the EU (especially if you start talking about PT characters instead of focusing entirely on the OT, and count stuff like Clone Wars as part of the EU). Give Jyn and Co. four decades of fanfiction to flesh out their characters, and maybe there'd be less to complain about.

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PK_Spam posted...

Thats the worst possible endorsement for a movie lol

Why would I watch something if half the cast only exists out of some weird obligation to have people around?

Because not all movies are character pieces.

For example, I don't watch Alien for the deep interpersonal relationships.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

wrong. They definitely had their problems but they at least tell an interesting and original story that doesnt ruin the OT characters legacy.

Excuse me?

The PT does nothing *but* shit all over the OT's legacy. They made Anakin Skywalker - the character that the into a whiny little angsty shit whose path to the dark side apparently consisted of humping the leg of a senator he met as a child. Boba Fett changes from an enigmatic badass to a clone of one of the most incompetent characters in the entire saga (seriously, I could write an entire post about how dumb Jango Fett and Zam Wessel's plot to kill Padme is). Obi-Wan becomes a prissy mother hen constantly nagging Anakin (who, admittedly, fully deserved it), Yoda alternates between being an asshole and just settling on being stupid, and R2-D2 randomly decides to just completely forget all of the people he'll eventually run into 20 years later. About the only character that the PT improves upon is Palpatine (and even then, it does a really clumsy job of painting him as a master strategist, given that his sinister machinations could be undone in about five minutes by a mildly observant five-year-old); everyone else is worse off for whatever attentions the PT lavishes upon them and the entire original trilogy is retroactively made worse by its existence.

The prequels introduce a slew of inconsistencies and plotholes into the originals (Obi-Wan claims that Anakin was an amazing pilot when they first met, despite the fact that Anakin was a prepubescent child who had never so much as set foot on a starship, let alone piloted one; Leia claims she remembers her mother, despite the fact that she was dead within hours of her being born; Obi-Wan claims that Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber, which is a very odd interpretation of the words "I HATE YOU!!" being screamed from the shores of a lava river).

And no, they don't tell an interesting or original story. They barely tell a story at all. "Logical coherence" is apparently not a term George Lucas is familiar with, because TPM is a collection of random decisions with no logical thought behind them, yet it still somehow manages to be more sensible than AotC, where the characters all behave like they're suffering from traumatic brain injuries. RotS, on the other hand, manages to dodge the problem of terrible stories by simply not having one and instead settling for taking the end of AotC and the beginning of ANH and connecting them by drawing a straight line in between them.

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adjl posted...

Honestly, people overstate how good the mainline movies' characters are. They're better than Rogue One's, certainly, especially where they get ~3 films to develop instead of one, but most of the real depth and interesting experiences they have are only really found in the EU (especially if you start talking about PT characters instead of focusing entirely on the OT, and count stuff like Clone Wars as part of the EU). Give Jyn and Co. four decades of fanfiction to flesh out their characters, and maybe there'd be less to complain about.

This is true.

In the case of most "nerd" fiction, the only difference between bad and iconic is exposure.

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darkknight109 posted...

The PT does nothing *but* shit all over the OT's legacy. They made Anakin Skywalker - the character that the into a whiny little angsty shit whose path to the dark side apparently consisted of humping the leg of a senator he met as a child. Boba Fett changes from an enigmatic badass to a clone of one of the most incompetent characters in the entire saga (seriously, I could write an entire post about how dumb Jango Fett and Zam Wessel's plot to kill Padme is). Obi-Wan becomes a prissy mother hen constantly nagging Anakin (who, admittedly, fully deserved it), Yoda alternates between being an asshole and just settling on being stupid, and R2-D2 randomly decides to just completely forget all of the people he'll eventually run into 20 years later. About the only character that the PT improves upon is Palpatine (and even then, it does a really clumsy job of painting him as a master strategist, given that his sinister machinations could be undone in about five minutes by a mildly observant five-year-old); everyone else is worse off for whatever attentions the PT lavishes upon them and the entire original trilogy is retroactively made worse by its existence.

The prequels introduce a slew of inconsistencies and plotholes into the originals (Obi-Wan claims that Anakin was an amazing pilot when they first met, despite the fact that Anakin was a prepubescent child who had never so much as set foot on a starship, let alone piloted one; Leia claims she remembers her mother, despite the fact that she was dead within hours of her being born; Obi-Wan claims that Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber, which is a very odd interpretation of the words "I HATE YOU!!" being screamed from the shores of a lava river).

And no, they don't tell an interesting or original story. They barely tell a story at all. "Logical coherence" is apparently not a term George Lucas is familiar with, because TPM is a collection of random decisions with no logical thought behind them, yet it still somehow manages to be more sensible than AotC, where the characters all behave like they're suffering from traumatic brain injuries. RotS, on the other hand, manages to dodge the problem of terrible stories by simply not having one and instead settling for taking the end of AotC and the beginning of ANH and connecting them by drawing a straight line in between them

nitpicking and biased. I win, bye bye.

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Rogue One easily. I don't think it needed to exist but there's a big difference between 'doesn't need to exist' and 'makes things worse'.

Also, the problem, in my eyes, with the Prequel Trilogy is purely that PM didn't need to exist. I would have gladly axed it in favor of another movie set in the height of the clone wars.

Edit: Actually, can we do that? Axe TPM and just consider RO the 'new Episode III"?

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Rogue One is the only good newer Star Wars movie. Episode 7 was okay... the rest were dog shit.

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darkknight109 posted...

Because not all movies are character pieces.

For example, I don't watch Alien for the deep interpersonal relationships.

But Alien still makes you understand Ripley and her wants and makes fear for her death.

Thats the reason people still talk about that.

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

nitpicking and biased. I win, bye bye.

Yeah, I think I'm starting to understand why you think the prequels aren't flaming piles of trash.

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PK_Spam posted...

But Alien still makes you understand Ripley and her wants and makes fear for her death.

Thats the reason people still talk about that.

Sure, but none of that hinges on anything particular to Ripley as a character. You could have replaced her with any one of the other crewmates - or an entirely new character - and the movie could run pretty much unaltered.

Here's a fun exercise: using only the information that's revealed in Alien (i.e. not any of the sequels or ancillary materials), try and write up the most detailed character synopsis of Ripley or any of her fellow crewmates that does not include their physical characteristics or any actions they take during the movie. It's difficult to come up with more than maybe 2-3 sentences for any of them.

Which is fine, because Alien - by its very nature - doesn't need super fleshed-out characters. It gives you just enough information about the characters to show you their personalities ("This one's the leader; that one's the woman who doesn't handle stress well; that one's the nine-to-fiver that's only interested in earning his paycheque", so on and so forth) and that's all, because that's all that's necessary to contextualize the plot.

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Rogue One by far imo

I want more Star Wars movies like that

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adjl posted...

Rogue One is not only better than TLJ, it's better than any other Star Wars movie (though I haven't seen RoS or Solo yet to compare them).

I agree. R1 is the best Star Wars film period.

I also don't think any of the Star Wars films are particularly great. Influential, yes, undeniably, but most of them, even the original trilogy, are corny and not particularly well written. Rogue One is a solid war film that just happens to take place in the star wars universe and it has just the right amount of sap to be dramatic but not ridiculous.

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I mean they both sucked its just comparing eating a hot chilipeper vs someone eating you after eating a hot pepper.

Argueable disney needs to back away. So does george for that matter. They have volumes of content to draw upon and had multiple canons. Then they try to make merch of every little detail. Its more exploitive of the fan bas than giving us what we want. Hell why you think ford wanted to leave the series and had his character killed so early on in the sequels. He was like a rat leaving a sinking ship. Thats not meant to put h hi m down he just had the foresight to know it was doomed from the start

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ScritchOwl posted...

Hell why you think ford wanted to leave the series and had his character killed so early on in the sequels.

Ford wanted his character killed in ESB, which is generally accepted as the best of the Star Wars movies, so he might not be the best judge of character there.

Also worth noting that the reason he wanted Han killed off, even back then, was because he found the character uninteresting and thought it was a good way to conclude his arc. If he really thought the sequels were going to be trash, he simply wouldn't have bothered to show up.

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ScritchOwl posted...

Hell why you think ford wanted to leave the series and had his character killed so early on in the sequels.

I thought writers/directors made that decision to mirror the Kenobi death of New Hope

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They both sucked, but I'm inclined to say I dislike Rogue One more because I feel like it's way overrated.

darkknight109 posted...

Yeah, I think I'm starting to understand why you think the prequels aren't flaming piles of trash.

but the sequels are sooo good, right?

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Rogue One is probably the third or fourth best film in the franchise. TLJ ranks in the bottom four or five.

Offhand, the only films worse than TLJ are Solo, TFA, and TPM. If you cut the pointless Rose/Finn sidequest, it might be better than AotC and RotS... but, then again, you could trim those to make them better (although I guess you'd actually lose more in that case, whereas Rose/Finn was a complete throwaway)

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Rogue One was probably the best recent Star Wars movie. It's one drawback is that you already went into it knowing nobody in it was going to have a happy ending.

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Only saw Episode VII and Rogue One, Rogue One was better.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

It's the Star Wars film that most captures the "War Film" aspect

This is a good way to put it. It's not a "Star Wars" film, it's a "War Film" that takes place in the Star Wars Universe.

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Rogue One is the best Star Wars I've seen since the OG trilogy.

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Rogue One wasn't that interesting, tells a story nobody wanted to hear, with a conclusion you already know. But it was okay.

Last Jedi was an incomprehensible mess that wanted to push interesting themes but didn't care if the story used to execute those themes made any sense. For all it's talk of change, at the end of the day they refused to make changes in the places that actually mattered, and you still ended up with Jedi Rey vs Sith Kylo at the end. They actually set up the Rey and Kylo team up running the First Order together, but chickened out on it and reverted back to black and white villains and heroes.
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ForteEXE3850 posted...

Rogue One wasn't that interesting, tells a story nobody wanted to hear, with a conclusion you already know. But it was okay.

To be fair, Solo sucked as an idea because there was literally no amount of peril you could have subjected Han to that was going to build any sort of tension whatsoever, we all know he's alive and well in Episode 4. All you were going to get was possibly a bit of fanservice, a demystification of things that were never supposed to explained like Cyclops's "Eye punches from the eyepunch dimension", and a fistfull of disposable characters nobody was ever going to give two shits about that weren't even worth making action figures or funko pops out of.

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Rogue One was the only decent disney fan fic

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I am STUNNED by these results! Holy shit!

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

but the sequels are sooo good, right?

When did I say that?

TLJ was good. TFA was fun, but was basically just an HD-remake of ANH, so dock some points for creativity. TRoS was awful - worse than literally every other movie in the saga except AotC and RotS.

Zareth posted...

This is a good way to put it. It's not a "Star Wars" film, it's a "War Film" that takes place in the Star Wars Universe.

And I wish Disney had leaned into this more, because it's ripe for exploration here. I would love to see more "side-stories" out of Star Wars, like Rogue One (and no, not more "origin stories" like Solo, which always wind up trying to answer questions that no one was asking). I'd still love to see a Top Gun-style starfighter movie in the vein of the old TIE Fighter video game, or a Sin City-style film noir set in the Coruscant undercity or Nar Shaddaa or something like that.

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adjl posted...

Rogue One is not only better than TLJ, it's better than any other Star Wars movie (though I haven't seen RoS or Solo yet to compare them).

Pretty much the way I feel. I enjoyed rogue one specifically because it didn't feel like a star wars movie. It was grittier

Sequels > Prequels but Rogue One was a good prequel

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