Current Events > House Dems: Socialism and defund police are "Losing Issues"

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https://www.nationalreview.com/news/house-dems-vent-frustration-over-disappointing-election-results-dont-say-socialism/

discuss

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most people are bad or stupid and dont support these policies thatd actually better peoples lives \_()_/

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Bananana posted...

most people are bad or stupid and dont support these policies thatd actually better peoples lives \_()_/

This. Its not rocket science.

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Sure yeah, let's appeal even more to republican voters who have already proven in the last two elections that no matter how far right we go, they still won't vote for us.

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But no one ran on socialism.

Also, apparently treating LGBT community as equals is a losing issue. I'm starting to think America should lose at all costs

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"defund the police" 100% needs rebranded. "reform the police" would work. also, just doing it without making it into an "issue" would be super. show, not tell.

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I mean, theyre not wrong. The Democratic Party isnt shabgalagao or whatever. Its a small vocal minority within the party

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This board never fails to double down on the stupid

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seeing that the senate will be in republican control, i cant see how this is wrong.

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monkmith posted...

seeing that the senate will be in republican control, i cant see how this is wrong.

Remains to be seen

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Medussa posted...

"defund the police" 100% needs rebranded. "reform the police" would work. also, just doing it without making it into an "issue" would be super. show, not tell.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

Socialism is dead and law enforcement will start being respected again even if Trump loses.
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Irony posted...

Remains to be seen

we can hope, but i'm doubtful.

point is that dying on the socialism hill right now isn't going to do shit besides make the democratic party look stupid. mitch will block EVERY BILL that looks even a bit like socialism and use it as a springboard to embolden his party.

progressive ideas are gaining steam, but they dont have enough support in the democratic party to start leading policy. best to keep pushing for more legislators with that leaning first. 2022 election looks promising.

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They're still correct, and should be pushed for as hard as possible.

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Meanwhile, all the house seats lost were dems who condemned Medicare for All and defunding the police.... then those for it were all re-elected.

You know, the Democrats rejecting the left is just going to kill them in 2022 again. It's ridiculous they expect everyone to unite under the party if they refuse to actually address issues in this fucking country.

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Every single one of them working in government practice socialism though. How many free hand outs do they get off tax pay money?

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https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1324694301234921474?s=20

Sounds like thats bullshit

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i mean...yeah. learn to word your shit better. half the democrats problems are messaging.

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Democrats really have to start paying attention to what a burden their progressive wing is becoming.

In 4 years I can't think of a single seat in either the house or senate that a progressive flipped from Republicans. All their gains came from moderates. They're not bringing out new voters either like Biden did with suburban voters and winning back some of the blue collar ones in the rust belt.

On the other hand, they galvanize republicans. The GOP loves talking about people like AOC and Bernie even if they aren't running against them because it increases donations and turnout for them. And their dumber policies like defunding the police actually turn away voters who might otherwise vote Democrat. They are a net loss for Democrats right now.

Politics is all about power, winning is the only thing that matters. Losers can't expect a seat at the table.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

The GOP loves talking about people like AOC and Bernie even if they aren't running against them because it increases donations and turnout for them.

That's also, and actually even more so, true of Nancy Pelosi too, tbf

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https://twitter.com/MaxKennerly/status/1324784432763539456
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Balrog0 posted...

That's also, and actually even more so, true of Nancy Pelosi too, tbf

This is hard to imagine for younger voters, but Nancy Pelosi was at one time the AOC of the Democratic party. There was just a weird overton window shift and everyone to the right of Mao became a "corporate democrat".

Antifar posted...

https://twitter.com/MaxKennerly/status/1324784432763539456

Yeah, this is modeling noise.

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PrideOfLion posted...

Democrats seem keen to lose in 2022 if they keep this shit up

More like having a fighting chance. Socialism and defunding the cops are unsuitable for the US, cutting the crazy, unestablishment policies and focusing on issues people care about will only be a windfall for the Democrats.
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Medussa posted...

"defund the police" 100% needs rebranded. "reform the police" would work. also, just doing it without making it into an "issue" would be super. show, not tell.

This is a very good point that needs to be made as soon as possible.

Too many people think that defunding the police means police will be fired or paid less, when actually it will lead to having more police, better paid police, and most importantly better trained police. A better name would actually be REFUND police, or yeah simply reform it.

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Bottom line, I agree Democrats will make their very worst mistake in history if they don't go as radical as they can. Absolutely nobody in the US has any interest in the Republican Light party.

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paerarru posted...

This is a very good point that needs to be made as soon as possible.

Too many people think that defunding the police means police will be fired or paid less, when actually it will lead to having more police, better paid police, and most importantly better trained police. A better name would actually be REFUND police, or yeah simply reform it.

Who the fuck is asking for more police

Who the fuck is asking for better paid police

When we say defund, we mean DEFUND

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Blue_Inigo posted...

Who the fuck is asking for more police

Who the fuck is asking for better paid police

Most of America including minorities.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

Most of America including minorities.

Why are you lying about my people

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Maybe Democrats would perform better if they weren't obviously trying to focus group their message. Republican policies poll terribly on almost every issue but they still win power.

Start with principles and work from there.

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Blue_Inigo posted...

Who the f*** is asking for more police

Who the f*** is asking for better paid police

When we say defund, we mean DEFUND

Yeah, defunding the police is a terrible idea. I really don't understand where this notion comes from that taking money away from something makes it better.

Is there corruption in American police departments? Sure. Should some cops not be cops? Sure.

But starving police departments financially is only going to make it worse. Just like starving education of funding only makes it worse.

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I agree with them.
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I'm fine with just throwing out all the white supremacists on the police force.

DoctorPiranha3 posted...

I'm fine with just throwing out all the white supremacists on the police force.

Yup

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CableZL posted...

Is there corruption in American police departments? Sure. Should some cops not be cops? Sure.

It's not about corruption; their raison d'etre is putting people in jail. You can't reform cops any more than you could reform Trump.

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Intro2Logic posted...

It's not about corruption; their raison d'etre is putting people in jail. You can't reform cops any more than you could reform Trump.

Eh, I think cops can be reformed, but again, said reform requires funding. You'd need to have money to hire better people. Better people generally means higher pay demands. You'd need to have money to reform their training process so that their raison d'etre becomes de-escalation and other tactics that would avoid the need to put people in jail.

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Not all police forces are going around armed like a mini army.

But almost all police forces DO need retraining and money directed towards other ventures than murdering the person they are sent to arrest, or often help in many cases. Vast amounts need to be removed and put on a list so they can never work in the police force again and the upper managements need to essentially entirely replaced.

This is gonna cost money.

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Intro2Logic posted...

It's not about corruption; their raison d'etre is putting people in jail. You can't reform cops any more than you could reform Trump.

I personally even agree with this but y'all want me to believe this plays better in the suburbs than the actual 'reform the police' message most of these dems (centrist or progressive afaik, like what did Katie porter say about that) ran on?

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CableZL posted...

Yeah, defunding the police is a terrible idea. I really don't understand where this notion comes from that taking money away from something makes it better.

Is there corruption in American police departments? Sure. Should some cops not be cops? Sure.

But starving police departments financially is only going to make it worse. Just like starving education of funding only makes it worse.

You're not "taking money away from the police"

The police exist to deal with problems. If you can fix the problem some other way, then you can reduce the police budget without impacting the other expenses the police have because they no longer have to deal with some shit.

For example, a little hyperbolic here but if all drugs were just legal the amount of money the police spend on conducting drug busts now drops to $0 which frees up that money to be spent on other things (such as medical addiction programs).

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Intro2Logic posted...

It's not about corruption; their raison d'etre is putting people in jail. You can't reform cops any more than you could reform Trump.

Oh, another very good point. You can't reform law enforcement without reforming the legal system for starters. And there are many other related systems, actually. It's an absolute mess.

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Instead of reform the police we should continue saying defund or abolish the police.

And instead of expand the courts we should continue saying to pack the courts

And instead of blaming progressivism the DINOs should git out

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Until trump far right nationalism was considered a losing issue

calling immigrants and refugees rapists and criminals was a losing issue

they just found the right person to package that rhetoric and pass it along to the masses

dems need to do the same for socialism/progressive policies

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Tyranthraxus posted...

You're not "taking money away from the police"

The police exist to deal with problems. If you can fix the problem some other way, then you can reduce the police budget without impacting the other expenses the police have because they no longer have to deal with some s***.

For example, a little hyperbolic here but if all drugs were just legal the amount of money the police spend on conducting drug busts now drops to $0 which frees up that money to be spent on other things (such as medical addiction programs).

I agree, but what Austin, TX did, for example, was just cut the police department budget before fixing said problems another way. The same problems exist in the legal system. The same problems exist with drugs. The city didn't fix any of those problems before cutting the police department budget.

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CableZL posted...

I agree, but what Austin, TX did, for example, was just cut the police department budget before fixing said problems another way. The same problems exist in the legal system. The same problems exist with drugs. The city didn't fix any of those problems before cutting the police department budget.

Well that's stupid anyone whose played sim city for 10 minutes can probably explain why you don't just cut shit like that

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iPhone_7 posted...

Instead of reform the police we should continue saying defund or abolish the police.

And instead of expand the courts we should continue saying to pack the courts

And instead of blaming progressivism the DINOs should git out

Oh yeah fracture your base. That will help get your guy elected.

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Balrog0 posted...

I personally even agree with this but y'all want me to believe this plays better in the suburbs than the actual 'reform the police' message most of these dems (centrist or progressive afaik, like what did Katie porter say about that) ran on?

Probably not! But Republicans will run ads accusing Democrats of wanting anarchy regardless,and voters base their decisions on way more than just policy.

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Yeah that's true for sure, I'm just pretty sure that works against the left of center politically

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None of the people that lost ran on defunding the police or socialism. They simply let themselves be defined by their opponents, and had no affirmative message, as usual.

To say that this is the fault of progressives is essentially to say that progressives shouldn't exist in elected office and should never advocate for their ideas because others will become associated with them.

That ignores the fact that the Republican strategy is the same regardless of your ideology. You are either Ilhan Omar or they paint you as her. You have to learn to combat that by redirecting the focus to your message or to destigmatize Omar. You can't just tell her not to exist.

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