Poll of the Day > You get a job offer to beta test a new VR game......

(+) Yeah! (+)

You luck out and get an email offering you a spot to beta test a new game, VR realms. It uses unique and new technology that accesses the part of your brain that dreams, simulating a sleep condition and controlling the dream state to allow you to fully experience the VR world (and interact with others doing the same thing).

No surgery is needed, it's done with a machine that interfaces with your brain directly through electrical impulses. It's been fully tested for functionality, and the game is set and ready to launch. They need a full Beta Test group though to test it from scratch (Without prior knowledge from coding etc), and you have been offered a spot.

The Beta Test will last 3 months and you will be payed $50,000 for participating, but, you will spend almost all your time in the game. Due to the simulated sleep state, you do not actually need sleep at all, while playing, but your body does need to be active some each day. You are expected to play 18 hours a day, and can do what you want with the remaining 6 (broken up into two 3 hours periods every 9 hours. Some exercise is required (About 2 hours a day....or 1 hours worth per 3 hour period), but you can determine what form that takes.

Food is provided during the periods, as well as many entertainment methods, plenty of birth control methods etc.

You will not be able to contact or communicate with anyone once the Beta has started as well, and if for some reason you opt out, you will be held in seclusion until the beta is finished (and forfeit the money as well).

Finally, as a last incentive, while you will not be able to keep your character once the game actually launches, you will get a 1 week head start on the masses.

The game is hardcore, meaning that any death of a character is permanent btw, but you can then start over. You are assured that character creation is varried and customization and leveling options allow for almost an infinite amount of character combinations, and that even with the current content it would take over a decade to max out a character and finish all the quests/content etc available.

Will you take the position?
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Food is provided during the periods, as well as many entertainment methods, plenty of birth control methods etc.

What kind of gaming company is this
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Ya, why am I having sex while sleeping?
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Sure.
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Please tell me this isnt a hypothetical and where I can sign up?
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Fuck yes, this sounds awesome.

Unless it turns out to be an SAO situation or something.
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PMarth2002 posted...

Unless it turns out to be an SAO situation or something.

That was my first thought after reading the topic title.
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Lol the birth control is for the 3 hour periods when your not sleeping/playing the game, also sex is considered exercise hehe.

And nope, not like SoA at all, actually more lifelike then SoA since your not stuck into attack patterns etc, full real life like movements etc.
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Oh, so Avatar.
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I'm leaning towards no. What info will they give us on the game?

Trevor_Belmont posted...

PMarth2002 posted...

Unless it turns out to be an SAO situation or something.

That was my first thought after reading the topic title.

I was thinking that when I started the last paragraph at first... Haha.
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PMarth2002 posted...

Fuck yes, this sounds awesome.

Unless it turns out to be an SAO situation or something.

I wouldnt care.

Put me in a coma and get me out of this boring clown world!
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Did they do that in Avatar? It was so long ago....or did they inhabit real people over a long distance (or robots or something)?.

Thing is we don't have the tech to make a VR experience as good as SoA yet, but.....it's not that much of a stretch that we could develop tech to access dreams and manipulate them while people are sleeping.

So something like this could really work, basically your dream is just used as the "screen" that plays the VR game...and everything is still run by computer etc. The "screen" though allows you to have full immersion because it feels like it's real, and you can react at normal speed, change decisions instantly etc.

Magic etc follows the rules of the game world, but seems natural, just like it can in dreams. You can taste foods, feel pain and pleasure etc.

In effect it's really just controlled and shared dreaming, but utilized to make the best gaming experience possible.
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wolfy42 posted...

Did they do that in Avatar? It was so long ago....or did they inhabit real people over a long distance (or robots or something)?.

They made a body like the inhabitants. And then they would let you use your mind to inhabit the ones you made, IIRC...
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LinkPizza posted...

wolfy42 posted...

Did they do that in Avatar? It was so long ago....or did they inhabit real people over a long distance (or robots or something)?.

They made a body like the inhabitants. And then they would let you use your mind to inhabit the ones you made, IIRC...

Ahh, interesting. Yeah, I don't remember anything about the movie anymore except they were blue, and there was like a flying scene or something lol.
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Do they give us any info on what the game is about?
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LinkPizza posted...

Do they give us any info on what the game is about?

The just give you a general idea of the framework, that you can create a character before playing, giving you starting abilities, spells, skills etc and that you can advance in those ability/skills or learn new ones as you play.

There is no information on the larger scale, other then players will have a major impact on the world over time, and that beta testers will only have access to a small portion of the larger game (but still more then enough to keep them busy for 3 months).
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wolfy42 posted...

LinkPizza posted...

Do they give us any info on what the game is about?

The just give you a general idea of the framework, that you can create a character before playing, giving you starting abilities, spells, skills etc and that you can advance in those ability/skills or learn new ones as you play.

There is no information on the larger scale, other then players will have a major impact on the world over time, and that beta testers will only have access to a small portion of the larger game (but still more then enough to keep them busy for 3 months).

Probably no. Though, I guess it would depend on what was going on in my life.

My main reasons for possible declining is what if I don't like it. My two choices are live in a game I hate for another 3 months. Or live in seclusion, most likely ruining my life. Both option sucks. If I just had tto sign a non disclosure agreement, I might be ok. But being stuck away from family and friends for 3 months, and letting bills not get paid and possibly losing my house, car, and stuff is no good. Not having the money wouldn't be an issue if I could work, but again, being in seclusion means no to that... Also, nver been big about permadeatth games. Can't really experiment without losing everything. And I know betas don't usually let you keep levels and characters, but I'd probably not want to play without the character I may have been using for 3 months. Also, only a week extra for 3 months of my life doesn't really seem like a lot...

For me, there's too many cons that grossly outweigh the pros... But I feel it would be good for others... I just don't like gambling my life of whether or not I'll like the game...
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I get that I guess. I doubt I would dislike the game, pretty much almost no chance.....and I'm generally not a fan of permadeath either, but you would actually get to test various things out while beta testing.....so the permadeath part wouldn't be too bad for that (since you don't get to keep your character anyway).

One week though is huge, especially when you consider/remember that it's done while technically sleeping, meaning you could play almost non-stop for a week without any serious detrimental effects (taking a 20 minute break every 8 hours to eat something, use the restroom if needed and stretch).

Could get a ton of playing done in that time, and since you know the starting areas already, get a big head start on the masses.

This can often be a big deal since the early areas will be very crowded at first when a new game opens up. Having a head start (even 1 day in a normal MMO) can end up giving you a huge lead/advantage over others.

But yeah, this wouldn't be for everyone....hence me asking if you'd be down for it. I totally would though.
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$50k for 3 months of work? Abso-fucking-lutely.

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PK_Spam posted...

$50k for 3 months of work? Abso-fucking-lutely.

Well, considering you "work" for 18 hours a day, that is actually more like 8 months of work....but that work is playing a video game:)

An additional perk that isn't mentioned above is you get the full setup to play the game for free when your done as well (it was implied by the fact you can start 1 week early), which is fairly expensive as well, along with no subscription fees for life (which could add up significantly as it has an introductory $20 a month fee, which increases to $100 a month after 3 months. The equipment to play is also quite expensive, but can be paid in installments so almost anyone can afford it, and you can return it within a month for a full refund).

Still combined if you did end up playing the game long term, you could save significantly.
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wolfy42 posted...

I get that I guess. I doubt I would dislike the game, pretty much almost no chance.....and I'm generally not a fan of permadeath either, but you would actually get to test various things out while beta testing.....so the permadeath part wouldn't be too bad for that (since you don't get to keep your character anyway).

One week though is huge, especially when you consider/remember that it's done while technically sleeping, meaning you could play almost non-stop for a week without any serious detrimental effects (taking a 20 minute break every 8 hours to eat something, use the restroom if needed and stretch).

Could get a ton of playing done in that time, and since you know the starting areas already, get a big head start on the masses.

This can often be a big deal since the early areas will be very crowded at first when a new game opens up. Having a head start (even 1 day in a normal MMO) can end up giving you a huge lead/advantage over others.

But yeah, this wouldn't be for everyone....hence me asking if you'd be down for it. I totally would though.

I mean, I may like it. But there are games that I just don't like sometimes. Or get bored of after a while, even if there's stuff to do. It's not too bad at home where I can take a break or whatever. But being stuck in it for months wouldn't be fun if I needed a break or something.

One week is huge if you have time. I don't really get much time for sleep or free time, anyway. And it's still not that long. Even if you can play while sleeping. That still only give me a few hours a day. Someone who's unemployed can probably not only catch up, but overpass me in probably a couple of days. That's why it just doesn't feel like enough time. As for head starts, it's only good if it's really early. And that's only because you can grow levels fast when you're lower leveled. But by the time you get to a higher level, the people who start day one of the worldwide release will have either caught up or surpassed everybody, assuming they haven't died as much. And because of the permadeath, the head starts might not even happen.

And back to the permadeath, that's why I don't feel like I can try out stuff. Getting to a certain level and getting a certain move is fun. But then you want to try it out. And it doesn't work like you thought it would on an enemy. And now you're dead. To try out other moves, you'll have to do everything over again just to get that move and try it out. Same with other moves. Much less time to try out you moves and other characters when you have to restart constantly because nothing works as you think it would. Or isn't as good as you think. Plus, I would end up dying a lot after the death of a good character because you change your playstyle to match characters. And my playstyle would probably match my good character, who is gone forever...

But like I said, just not for me. Probably wouldn't even play the full release, tbh. It would probably cost a lot. And probably more than it would be worth for me...
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wolfy42 posted...

Thing is we don't have the tech to make a VR experience as good as SoA yet, but.....it's not that much of a stretch that we could develop tech to access dreams and manipulate them while people are sleeping.

So something like this could really work, basically your dream is just used as the "screen" that plays the VR game...and everything is still run by computer etc. The "screen" though allows you to have full immersion because it feels like it's real, and you can react at normal speed, change decisions instantly etc.

I have a scifi book idea based on this.

In the future people all have dreamcatchers that let them control their dreams and ludic dream. Thing is turns out the manufacturers are manipulating dreams to brainwash people.
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Depends.... who's the developer/publisher?
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I would do it but I object to the 8 hours they want to force me to be active
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wolfy42 posted...

The game is hardcore, meaning that any death of a character is permanent btw, but you can then start over.

This would be the deal-breaker for me. I loathe roguelikes because I absolutely cannot stand losing hours (or days, or weeks...) worth of effort and progress in an instant due to character death. Especially because there's always the possibility of death that's entirely outside of your control (glitches, distractions, fucked up trolls using exploits to grief you, etc etc).

For a game where "with the current content it would take over a decade to max out a character and finish all the quests/content etc available", I cannot even remotely imagine playing for years to lose literally everything. I would avoid that game like the motherfucking plague.
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A few months ago, I might have said yes, and left my boyfriend with some instructions for handling my FFXIV account for this period, assuming I really can't talk to him for three months. 50k before tax would have lasted me a couple years.

Question, though. You mention protection or birth control, but also a severing of contact from the outside world. Does this mean I'd only be able to pair up with devs or other testers? Not a great deal, especially since I don't wish to do that to my boyfriend.
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What the fuck is SoA?


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Yes TC I have also seen Black Mirror
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Bugmeat posted...

What the fuck is SoA?

SAO stands for Sword Art Online. I'm going to assume that's what you mean...

It's an anime where a certain number of people go to play a VR game, but they all get stuck in it where they can't leave until someone wins. And if you die in the game, you die in real life. And more stuff... But that's what it's about in basic terms, I guess...
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I see SoA and all I can think of is Sons of Anarchy.


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Bugmeat posted...

I see SoA and all I can think of is Sons of Anarchy.

Wolfy just got the letter mixed up. In the other posts, you can see SAO. That's what he meant. Haha.
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Probably not. I like the real world.
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SunWuKung420 posted...

Probably not. I like the real world.

Eww.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

wolfy42 posted...

The game is hardcore, meaning that any death of a character is permanent btw, but you can then start over.

This would be the deal-breaker for me. I loathe roguelikes because I absolutely cannot stand losing hours (or days, or weeks...) worth of effort and progress in an instant due to character death. Especially because there's always the possibility of death that's entirely outside of your control (glitches, distractions, fucked up trolls using exploits to grief you, etc etc).

For a game where "with the current content it would take over a decade to max out a character and finish all the quests/content etc available", I cannot even remotely imagine playing for years to lose literally everything. I would avoid that game like the motherfucking plague.

This. Take out the permadeath and ridiculous grinding and I'd do it.
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I would definitely sign up. Three months wouldn't be too bad for me as long as all of my immediate family/friends knew I was okay. Assuming the world was massive I could spend all of my time just exploring low level zones.

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Permadeath is needed to give the game weight, otherwise people could just constantly throw themselves against challenges until the defeat it.

You lose your levels/stats/skills/spells but you do not lose any equipment etc that you have stored (you do lose whatever was on you at the time of death though). You also do not lose the skills you yourself have developed in playign the game etc (how well you use the skills spells etc), which you definately develop over time. Unlike many MMO's today, your real skill plays a drastic effect on how effective you are (since you control everything yourself just like in real life).

Entity, yes it's meant to allow the players to sleep with each other without any pregnancies as part of the mandatory exercise every day. All applicants would also be tested to make sure they have no STDs (wouldn't disqualify you from participating but would have to agree to allow all other players to know about it to participate).

You sadly could not have congical visits from loved ones (or booty calls) because of the secrecy, so if you/they were not ok with a "free pass" for 3 months, no sex for you 1 year!! (ok 3 months, but still...sex nazi).

Also, permadeath sucks, nobody likes it, but...death doesn't happen commonly or easily, especially the further into the game you go, and the better you get. At first, mistakes will happen etc, new players might die repeatedly before reaching a higher level (which does let them expiriment a bit as well), but as you get stronger, death is far less common, and you can often retreat before dying. There are items and spells that can be used to prevent death etc as well.

Still if a low level character goes up against a much stronger enemy, they will die....without permadeath, if 100 low level characters teamed up on something they might take it down without any real consequences.
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wolfy42 posted...

Permadeath is needed to give the game weight, otherwise people could just constantly throw themselves against challenges until the defeat it.

I dont see the problem here...

wolfy42 posted...

You lose your levels/stats/skills/spells but you do not lose any equipment etc that you have stored (you do lose whatever was on you at the time of death though). You also do not lose the skills you yourself have developed in playign the game etc (how well you use the skills spells etc), which you definately develop over time. Unlike many MMO's today, your real skill plays a drastic effect on how effective you are (since you control everything yourself just like in real life).

I guess thats better, but still eh... Also, can you do stuff that you cant in real life?

wolfy42 posted...

Entity, yes it's meant to allow the players to sleep with each other without any pregnancies as part of the mandatory exercise every day. All applicants would also be tested to make sure they have no STDs (wouldn't disqualify you from participating but would have to agree to allow all other players to know about it to participate).

Which sucks for people in relationships...

wolfy42 posted...

You sadly could not have congical visits from loved ones (or booty calls) because of the secrecy, so if you/they were not ok with a "free pass" for 3 months, no sex for you 1 year!! (ok 3 months, but still...sex nazi).

I would be surprised if anyone was ok with a free pass. But whats up with the secrecy? Its a bet, right? And couldnt a non-disclosure agreement work, as well?

wolfy42 posted...

Also, permadeath sucks, nobody likes it, but...death doesn't happen commonly or easily, especially the further into the game you go, and the better you get. At first, mistakes will happen etc, new players might die repeatedly before reaching a higher level (which does let them expiriment a bit as well), but as you get stronger, death is far less common, and you can often retreat before dying. There are items and spells that can be used to prevent death etc as well.

I feel that means you would have to grind a lot for any boss. Because Im a normal game, I might reach a hard boss. But after maybe dying once or twice, I understand how to beat it. But this makes me feel like I would need to grind before anything for fear or dying and losing all my progress. And would make me start to hate the game. And eventually just stop playing as it feel like a waste. I dont need death to hold weight for me to not want to die. It just brings fear and takes away the fun of the game... For me, at least...

wolfy42 posted...

Still if a low level character goes up against a much stronger enemy, they will die....without permadeath, if 100 low level characters teamed up on something they might take it down without any real consequences.

How high do the levels go?
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Hell yes!
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wolfy42 posted...

Permadeath is needed to give the game weight, otherwise people could just constantly throw themselves against challenges until the defeat it.

So then...like a video game?

I don't mind permadeath, but I do want an option to turn it off if it's present in games.
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AllstarSniper32 posted...

wolfy42 posted...

Permadeath is needed to give the game weight, otherwise people could just constantly throw themselves against challenges until the defeat it.

So then...like a video game?

I don't mind permadeath, but I do want an option to turn it off if it's present in games.

I actually turn it off in Fire Emblem...
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wolfy42 posted...

An additional perk that isn't mentioned above is you get the full setup to play the game for free when your done as well (it was implied by the fact you can start 1 week early), which is fairly expensive as well, along with no subscription fees for life (which could add up significantly as it has an introductory $20 a month fee, which increases to $100 a month after 3 months. The equipment to play is also quite expensive, but can be paid in installments so almost anyone can afford it, and you can return it within a month for a full refund).

That is just terrible as a business model. Expensive entry fees and ridiculous month to month expenses sounds like it's going to go down the shitter very quickly.

wolfy42 posted...

Permadeath is needed to give the game weight, otherwise people could just constantly throw themselves against challenges until the defeat it.

This is just terrible game design. Permadeath in roguelikes work because roguelikes are much shorter games in contrast to most other genres of games. Permadeath in anything else is usually just a challenge option. Considering how long you are supposed to spend with this game, permadeath is just a terrible option.

wolfy42 posted...

Still if a low level character goes up against a much stronger enemy, they will die....without permadeath, if 100 low level characters teamed up on something they might take it down without any real consequences.

That just sounds like a valid strategy and it's how many species including humans have survived for so long. Plus with decent design, that wouldn't be a problem.
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They are building more of a virtual world, where magic works, mythical creatures exist to fight etc, then just a video game. The point of permadeath is to ensure that players are motivated (Very motivated) to not die. As mentioned there are magical ways to avoid dying (even teleporting you to safety when you would die normally), so it's not all or nothing in most situations. In addition it's possible raise spells could be used within a shortperiod of death etc to keep a battle going etc. The point of permadeath though is that long term, you grow a character and care for it deeply, and avoid death just as much (or more...considering the game world is...well magical) as you would in real life.

Meanwhile it's only 3 months guys, if your in a relationship, you just don't have sex for 3 months if your partner (or you) is not ok with sharing or free passes etc. Also, such relationships are WAY more common now aday, especially in Washington it seems lol.

Grinding isn't really a thing in this game either since it's so large, there are always new quests and ways to improve your skills and power around your level, so you don't have to do the same thing over and over again, and your improving REAL skills (your ability to use the abilities you have chosen) all the time as well. Magic for instance would require mental skills, memorization, pronunciation (or gestures, or a combination) etc to cast, and the more you do it, the better you become, faster you can perform the required actions etc.

Using a sword....requires skill, just like using a sword in real life, you just have additional abilities you can use, magical swords, movement abilities etc, which eventually become second nature for you to use.

All of those things you don't lose if you die, since they are a part of you. The game is geared to eventually make the loss or death of a character to have significant weight within the game, more and more as players advance further.

The option to not have deaths be permanent till a certain level, or to allow you to regress to a certain point (by choice) when you die, could be implemented later if the perma death ended up being too much, but I think it would fit well with the over all concept of the game. Without a serious consequence for death, it would remain just a game...although a very addictive one. By having death be final for a character it adds more weight to the game and your decisions, especially if the game eventually expands to the point where real life currency is used and people spend more time playing the game then in real life on average.

In effect, by using dreams as a platform, you are creating a virtual life, not just a video game, where people can do things not possible in real life, and be who or what they want to be. Part of that realism needs to be a real sense of danger and loss based on your decisions.

As far as the buisiness model, the cost is because it actually costs that much to make the equipment, and the cost to actually play...may seem alot, but the number of people constantly working on expanding the game to keep additional content for the players etc would be quite expensive. As more and more players joined, the cost could possibly go down (or just more people would be hired). The company would try and ensure that everyone who wanted to, was able to play the game though, just requiring payment plans like with cell phones initially.
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Ok. Ready player one.
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Permadeath doesnt motivate me not to die. Its scares me to play and waste my time. Permadeath becomes the game killer once real currency is used... As for grinding, I feel like you would have to. If you die after a year of playing, you cant just pick up where you left off with a brand new character. The enemies would be too hard for you. I dont see how they wouldnt be...
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SunWuKung420 posted...

Ok. Ready player one.

More like The Matrix, but run by the most wealthy/elite goverments and coperations (same thing pretty much), to occupy the masses and keep them from uprising, while drastically reducing population/birth rate.

Meanwhile as far as permadeath and not getting back where you were right away, that is true, but you would acumulate wealth and magical items etc that would enable you to progress much faster.

For instance casting a simple attack spell early on might require you to say 4 phrases exactly while making a certain series of signs with your hands. Initially when playing that could take a significant amount of time, even over a second, and seem quite difficult. After doing that for months, and even harder more difficult spells, it would be cake for you even after dying, and instead of casting say 1 spell every 2 seconds, you could now cast 2 per second.

Meanwhile your equipment and supplies would allow you to finish quests over your level and progress very fast, you certainly wouldn't make up 2 years of play over night, but since leveling slows down as you advance, you could probably re-level up to about 70% of your previous one in a month or so, while having the opportunity to change things, focus on new stats, specialize in new skills and refine your character.

You would also know the best quests to do in the areas you played before, and therefore you could do other quests that you didn't try yet, and gain more valuable items bonuses...so when you do finally achieve your previous level, you will be stronger, and more able to take on the challenge that killed you the first time (not to mention having knowledge about the fight etc in advance).

Initially the concept was to use the dreamlike ability to have you forget about your real life while playing, making you ONLY the character, and then on death, erase all previous memories, all equipment etc, and have you start over from scratch. This ended up being too much of a loss and players would just stop playing after death. By allowing memories to carry over, and accumulated items/wealth as well, the number of people who ended up just stopping after death (or at least for any period of time...more then a month), would be very low.

The game is massively addicting, more so then any previously, it allows for those with medical issues, loss of limbs etc, to be whole again, to walk if they can't, to talk if unable to in real life etc. It allows you to be any gender you want while playing as well, and to a large degree determine your appearance (Within parameters).

The general concept behind the game is to make something nobody will want to stop once they start playing it, and permadeath was required for that. Many people eventually become bored if there is no real risk, no danger or loss if you lose. Permadeath causes serious loss, but without getting to the point where players become dissilusioned and unwilling to play again. Especially at lower levels, a player can quickly make back the time lost, which works perfectly when people are still learning the game, and are far more likely to actually die.
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I feel thats the opposite. When I play a game for the first time, I get really strong. This is because I dont know where to go and what to do. I go exploring and level up a ton by doing a bunch of random stuff. If I knew where to go, I would get as high a level. I know because I restart and play games multiple times. And Im never as strong as my first file. Because I was exploring. Id be weaker each time...

And I feel the opposite abjtnthe permadeath, too. Permadeath is what would make me want to stop playing it. I can play short roguelike games like that. But not a decade long game. Id quit after the first few deaths...

People get addicted to games like WoW, and theres no permadeath, AFAIK. I feel that would have made it much less popular...
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They got permadeath now because of China.
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Permadeath is in many games like WoW and alot of players like it, but I have never liked the system (in games like path of exile.

Getting stronger each play through though is fairly normal for games, that last months (per league etc), and that I have participated in over the years (Path of exile resets every 3 months or so, with a new league, new characters and all your EQ is gone etc....but there are new challenges/rewards etc).

In this game though it's a bit different, death is fairly....common in Path of Exile, and players create characters that are VERY hard to kill in order to avoid getting killed in hardcore. Players finish the game and the hardest boss fights even in hardcore mode, but again, it's a matter of months at most (and honestly I think players reach the end game in weeks at this point, even in hardcore).

For such a big game like they are creating though, it's a journey of a lifetime eventually, not months or even years, for characters. Initially starting characters might die a few times while getting the hang of things, and the threat is always there, but as players progress, less and less deaths should happen.

In effect, the longer you play, the less likely you are to die, and the more is lost if you do die.

A new character that plays for 2 weeks for instance must spend a ton of time finding where everything is, figuring out how to play the game etc. If that character dies after 2 weeks at level 10 for instance, he or she could probably easily get back to that level (and make their character stronger in the process as they will know better what skills/stats etc to focus on, have better higher level equipment early on etc) in a day.

That character could then continue playing, being more careful after dying last time....until reaching level 25 and trying to fight a boss by themselves (that actually warns against doing so...or ignoring the sign etc). The character then dies, and that is a serious loss, the player feels despondent because they have grown to love their character even in only after a month (Twice as long as it took to get to level 10 last time they died).

Perhaps they take a day or too off, but they come back, and find out that things are very different. They have much better equipment to use early on, and they are far better at using the skills/spells etc then they were last time at a low level. They find that at least initially they can fight enemies and do content 3-4 levels higher then before, and they level up MUCH faster. In 2 days they reach level 20 and in only 4 days they are back at the level 25 that took them a full month to reach before. This time though they have streamlined their character even more, picked up some more useful skills and abilities (things with better synergies), and did quests that rewarded them with better/new equipment that boosted areas they hadn't last time.

They also don't rush in and fight the boss by themselves....and in the future, they actually read signs and listen to warnings.

By level 50 or so, characters who die can take significant periods to recover from a death. Early levels are fast, and if you know what your doing and have advanced equipment you can rush to 25 in less then a week and 50 in less then a month....not too bad, level 100 though takes a significant amount of time to reach the first time, more and more time as you get closer to 100, so a death at that point would be devestarting....but...you could still rush back to 50 quickly, and level every day or so for quite awhile, while still making your character over all stronger then it was before you died.

Deaths post 100 should be extremely rare, and only happen in special circumstances, against major bosses and after being warned repeatedly about the danger. By such levels magic items should be available to escape most battles, cleric spells can ressurect characters if used fast enough etc. The fear of death is still there, it prevents crazy tactics, but actually death is rare.
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wolfy42 posted...

Permadeath is in many games like WoW and alot of players like it

I haven't heard of permaseath in WoW unless you're talking about players deleting their character. I actually used WoW to show that people can get addicted to a game without permadeath.
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By "like WoW" I meant MMO's like wow...then used path of exile as an actual example.

As far as I know WoW never implemented permadeath, but Wow is also an extremely simplified MMO, which I heard has become even more simplified over time (not as many talents etc, you just choose one ever 5 or 10 levels now or something etc).

Some people like the thrill/risk of permadeath....and in some games there is even PvP. Both for instance were in a mud I played for many years (and that has people who have 6+ years in game and mutliple years in combat time) harcore and pvp is a evil combination. Not only can you die from lag or mistakes (Cause unlike a dream VR game....that was still very possible), but you can die because a bunch of other evil players gang up and set a trap for you etc.

Characters have lost years of playtime/effort because of being jumped by others in PvP.

But again, some people like the thrill/risk, and the mud I played actually had some ways you could protect against losing internet/lag spikes etc (server side disconect for instance if your health drops below a certain point etc).

In theory the VR game could have servers go down etc, but that would just simply log everyone out, and the game would be reset to a point a few minutes before the crash, to ensure players didn't randomly die etc.

Individual cases of bugs etc could be dealt with as needed.....but should be almost non-existant.

Death therefore would be a constant threat, but would also be a threat that players would choose to risk. Some of the best items/rewards etc would require such risks, and players would take them, some would die, but imagine having access to a skill only a few players have, because to obtain it you need to fight a boss solo, in a no-teleport/raise room. If you win, you get the ability, if you don't, you die and start over.

Nobody forces you to fight that boss, or take the risk, but if you do, you'llhave an advantage over those who have not.
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