Current Events > Should basic personal finance be part of high school curriculum?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The topic about how the average American household has $8,000+ in credit card debt makes me think a lot of people are totally clueless about how this debt/interest/etc stuff works.
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Its more important than how to mix some random chemicals Ill never think about after I graduate.
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Nah but students should be given courses on how to file bankruptcy. It's the american way.
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The school district where I went to school did have this as a graduation requirement.
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Hexenherz posted...

The school district where I went to school did have this as a graduation requirement.

did you find it valuable?
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Having everyday people make responsible and knowledgeable financial decisions will wreck the economy.
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Yes, students should learn about making a budget, investing, etc.
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We already teach math. You can't teach common sense.
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No. If they would just tax the super rich, this wouldn't be a problem.
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yes, absolutely.
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ImmatureContent posted...

We already teach math. You can't teach common sense.

username relevant?

does basic match cover things like continuously compounded interest? i dont recall talking about that in my HS math classes and i was in the advanced/AP program
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

ImmatureContent posted...

We already teach math. You can't teach common sense.

username relevant?

does basic match cover things like continuously compounded interest? i dont recall talking about that in my HS math classes and i was in the advanced/AP program

We definitely talked about it in my Algebra 2 classes and Pre-Calculus classes, which I took in 11th and 12th grade. Potentially even Algebra 1, but I could be wrong about that.
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Hexenherz posted...

The school district where I went to school did have this as a graduation requirement.

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Never gonna happen

Musourenka posted...

Having everyday people make responsible and knowledgeable financial decisions will wreck the economy.

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

does basic match cover things like continuously compounded interest?

it does, yes, per e^rt

what it doesnt do is explain how this works in the real world

although i will note most ccs compound their interest on a monthly basis, at least as far as i am aware
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Twin3Turbo posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

ImmatureContent posted...

We already teach math. You can't teach common sense.

username relevant?

does basic match cover things like continuously compounded interest? i dont recall talking about that in my HS math classes and i was in the advanced/AP program

We definitely talked about it in my Algebra 2 classes and Pre-Calculus classes, which I took in 11th and 12th grade. Potentially even Algebra 1, but I could be wrong about that.

Yeah, we did that too. I don't think that really gets people thinking about investing, though. To me it was more just another boring math type we had to do, and most people just throw their money in the bank since they don't know the first thing about investing.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

does basic match cover things like continuously compounded interest? i dont recall talking about that in my HS math classes and i was in the advanced/AP program

It absolutely is covered in today's curriculum, and if you graduated from high school within the last 5 years, you most likely learned it too.

https://www.engageny.org/resource/algebra-ii-module-3-topic-e-lesson-31/file/109776

It's just one state, but that's a curriculum developed by the NY State Board of Education for Algebra II, and in it, they have a sample lesson where you're supposed to spend an entire day explaining the math behind how credit cards work

Here's another lesson on car loans:

https://www.engageny.org/resource/algebra-ii-module-3-topic-e-lesson-30/file/109741

The problem is - how much do people actually remember from high school math? Most people can't solve a basic arithmetic problem.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

Hexenherz posted...

The school district where I went to school did have this as a graduation requirement.

did you find it valuable?

Yeah. It wasn't strictly a class about finances, there were other professional development skills taught and practiced as well.

So basically the course covered budgeting, check book keeping (ok, not the most relevant these days), how credit cards work, the types of bank accounts, some basic investment stuff, and then there were also sections on how to write resumes and cover letters and how to conduct yourself at an interview. It was all around pretty enjoyable.

Once you completed that course you could register for a small business management one where you actually had to work at a mini convenience store in the school, manage the inventory, operate the register, etc.
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Hexenherz posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

Hexenherz posted...

The school district where I went to school did have this as a graduation requirement.

did you find it valuable?

Yeah. It wasn't strictly a class about finances, there were other professional development skills taught and practiced as well.

So basically the course covered budgeting, check book keeping (ok, not the most relevant these days), how credit cards work, the types of bank accounts, some basic investment stuff, and then there were also sections on how to write resumes and cover letters and how to conduct yourself at an interview. It was all around pretty enjoyable.

Once you completed that course you could register for a small business management one where you actually had to work at a mini convenience store in the school, manage the inventory, operate the register, etc.

that sounds awesome.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

and if you graduated from high school within the last 5 years, you most likely learned it too.

im an old fart and graduated HS seventeen years ago
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Master_Bass posted...

Twin3Turbo posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

ImmatureContent posted...

We already teach math. You can't teach common sense.

username relevant?

does basic match cover things like continuously compounded interest? i dont recall talking about that in my HS math classes and i was in the advanced/AP program

We definitely talked about it in my Algebra 2 classes and Pre-Calculus classes, which I took in 11th and 12th grade. Potentially even Algebra 1, but I could be wrong about that.

Yeah, we did that too. I don't think that really gets people thinking about investing, though. To me it was more just another boring math type we had to do, and most people just throw their money in the bank since they don't know the first thing about investing.

Eh, most of the examples we used were about investing money. So it's not unfair to say that they should make the connection.

Kids just thinking of it as another boring math thing to do in math is kind of their own fault to a degree.

That being said, I'm not sure it should go much beyond that, at least in regards to how to choose investments, etc. I don't think the average 16,17, and even 18 year olds are really ready for that. But that was the first time the connection was made for me.
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Personal finance and life skills should be taught by parents not schools.
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Nukleen posted...

Personal finance and life skills should be taught by parents not schools.

Not everyone has parents.
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Who votes no? Lol
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Nukleen posted...

Personal finance and life skills should be taught by parents not schools.

too bad most parents are incapable of teaching these subjects
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Nukleen posted...

Personal finance and life skills should be taught by parents not schools.

That's assuming that parents themselves have a grasp of fiscal responsibility.

Seeing my mom in her current situation really made me wary of over extending myself with credit cards and debt and that attitude got me pretty far. But her advice was always "don't get credit cards", which isn't really solid advice :|
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Nukleen posted...

Personal finance and life skills should be taught by parents not schools.

what if the parents lack said life skills? does that just mean "lol sucks for you kids"?
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Darkman124 posted...

Nukleen posted...

Personal finance and life skills should be taught by parents not schools.

too bad most parents are incapable of teaching these subjects

Yup
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

im an old fart and graduated HS seventeen years ago

Then they might not have back then

They generally do now though

I tutor math part-time, and some of the students I work with are bringing in questions about finding the present or future values of an annuity when given a set of parameters as part of a standard 10th grade curriculum. Regents Examinations in NY State are now asking students to know how to use various formulae to find the downpayment required to buy a car with a given interest rate and monthly payment, and vice versa. They do a pretty bad job of making the questions relatable to some students (sometimes they ask questions about $30,000 cars, which isn't really all that considerate when you're working with students of diverse backgrounds), but it's way better than nothing.

One thing I *have* noticed is that students are generally really awful at that particular topic and they complain about having to learn it all the time
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

ImmatureContent posted...

We already teach math. You can't teach common sense.

username relevant?

does basic match cover things like continuously compounded interest? i dont recall talking about that in my HS math classes and i was in the advanced/AP program

You call me immature but in the topic you mentioned about credit card debt you call people in debt irresponsible. How is me saying people lack common sense any different than calling people irresponsible? Hypocrisy at its finest.
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i was wondering if you were a gimmick, like Complete_Idi0t. there's a lot more to understanding finance than just "common sense". i think its pretty immature to think such a complex subject boils down to nothing more than "common sense".

im sorry if thats not true, no offense was intended.

ImmatureContent posted...

but in the topic you mentioned about credit card debt you call people in debt irresponsible.

here's what i actually said

Giant_Aspirin posted...

not to say that everyone who has CC debt has that problem because yeah sure there are emergencies, but most people with CC debt like that are just flat out irresponsible

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Not like the kids are going to pay attention anyway.

But anyway, sure, teach it in highschool. But I don't think it needs to be a whole class
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Twin3Turbo posted...

Master_Bass posted...

Twin3Turbo posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

ImmatureContent posted...

We already teach math. You can't teach common sense.

username relevant?

does basic match cover things like continuously compounded interest? i dont recall talking about that in my HS math classes and i was in the advanced/AP program

We definitely talked about it in my Algebra 2 classes and Pre-Calculus classes, which I took in 11th and 12th grade. Potentially even Algebra 1, but I could be wrong about that.

Yeah, we did that too. I don't think that really gets people thinking about investing, though. To me it was more just another boring math type we had to do, and most people just throw their money in the bank since they don't know the first thing about investing.

Eh, most of the examples we used were about investing money. So it's not unfair to say that they should make the connection.

Kids just thinking of it as another boring math thing to do in math is kind of their own fault to a degree.

That being said, I'm not sure it should go much beyond that, at least in regards to how to choose investments, etc. I don't think the average 16,17, and even 18 year olds are really ready for that. But that was the first time the connection was made for me.

I don't think it's too much for students to learn basic investment things like picking a low fee fund and to invest in indexes. I would agree that it might be a bit much to learn what makes an individual company's stock a potential good buy, though.
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Also there are a few things to keep in mind here:

First, people don't take out predatory loans because they *want* to. They generally do it because they *have* to. Nobody walks up to a store with a sign that says "FA$TCA$H" and thinks, "Yeah, I can *totally* borrow 1000 bucks for them, no sweat!" They do it because they're desperate and have nothing else to turn to.

If it's about CC debt, I think there are a lot of things at work here than people not knowing their math. You know how rich people become so used to their lifestyle that they start to talk about how they have trouble "making ends meet"? Even though the reason they have trouble "making ends meet" is because they buy $60,000 cars and send their kids to $40,000 private schools and $15,000 sleepaway camps? I mean, they'd have *so much* money left over if they just bought a Honda instead. But none of them ever does it.

I think that's what a lot of people do with debt. It's not like anybody wakes up and says, "Man, I should really use my credit card to buy something I can't afford!" It's the fact that they want that thing so badly that they're willing to overlook the long-term consequences of doing it. Their not knowing that the interest on a credit card is compounded monthly and grows exponentially isn't the problem here. The problem is that they desire *so much* to live outside of their means and credit cards offer a way for them to do so.

It's the same reasoning behind why you'll see poor people on food stamps walking around with nice sneakers and TVs that they can't afford either. Because the desire to look nice or enjoy the nicer things in life outweighs the common sense that they have. That's why most Americans lack the cash necessary to cover a small emergency:

https://www.nbcnews.com/better/money/most-americans-lack-reserve-cash-cover-500-emergency-survey-n493096
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Definitely.

But don't do anything relating to taxes, other than "withholding is important"

I always see taxes brought up in these topics, but there's not much you can cover that is actually important in a high school class that you can't just look up yourself.
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Yes but most students wouldn't be able to appreciate the importance of it in their teenage years, and how many of them will remember what they learn?
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Vita_Aeterna posted...

Yes but most students wouldn't be able to appreciate the importance of it in their teenage years, and how many of them will remember what they learn?

You can say that about almost every subject jfc. Why even have school?
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Absolutely. It's shocking how bad Americans are with money.
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Honestly it should be a class that you have to take more than once

Drpooplol posted...

Vita_Aeterna posted...

Yes but most students wouldn't be able to appreciate the importance of it in their teenage years, and how many of them will remember what they learn?

You can say that about almost every subject jfc. Why even have school?

I conceded that in my original draft of that post but I'll defend my argument:

Ok. You can say the same for all of them buuuuuut...learning finances isn't the same as learning something like science/math..The application of it isn't important because you need math/science/ english for post-secondary requirements (very often also mandatory to graduate HS--you can of course make finances mandatory for graduation) and people actually have a passion about this stuff. Finances? Who the fuck in HS cares about this? Business sure, but finances? I don't think so. It's a valuable skill, but people won't care for it until they're home-owners, business-owners or something that requires a lot of care to personal finances. Sure everyone at age 18 will have to file taxes and do stuff related to jobs, or school but that's easy--especially with TurboTax.
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Personal Finance should be a junior-year core requirement. Of course no young adult fresh out of high school can afford a mortgage, but plenty are locking themselves into college tuition loans which they'll be stuck with for decades. These topics shouldn't be relegated to a three-day sub unit of Algebra class.
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Polycosm posted...

Of course no young adult fresh out of high school can afford a mortgage, but plenty are locking themselves into college tuition loans which they'll be stuck with for decades.

In that case it should be their parents who take a personal finance class. What are the odds that some kid 18 years of age is making his own decision about where to go to college and from whom they should borrow?
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duh
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It's required in most schools now lmao

A lot of useful things aren't taught in school, in the hopes that the parents or universities will do it, which is a bad thing.
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The thing is, we really don't even need to make it a class with homework and tests and a teacher. Just have the kids sit in a room and listen to Dave Ramsey on the radio for 45 minutes each day.
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I was actually surprised how few schools did this. We had an elective class in middle school and high school that was called "It's your future". You would learn basic personal finance (how to balance a checkbook, how to make a budget, how to fill out a tax form), basic career type stuff (how to fill out an application, a resume and write a cover letter). It also taught some really basic household maintenance (how to locate and turn off a water main, how to locate and change a furnace filter, the fact you need to replace smoke detector batteries, etc.) and other basic tips on how to be an adult.
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Took one in college and was basically gold. You can do math and everything else,but when you deep dive into it, it's very interesting and a vast subject.

Hell just learning a the jargon can take a whole class
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I seem to recall taking that when I was in High School back in the 90s. It was called career and life management and alternated with the gym classes 2 times per week.

So yeah, it's been tried.
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My high school had it. I think it was last semester of senior year.
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anyone who says no, should have their license and voting rights taken away ASAP. and if you have kids, they have to be put up for adoptions.

Personal finance should be taught in HS at the very least, and more than one year in HS while we're at it. If you have to take many of the same subjects over and over again, you should have to take more than one personal finance class. I'd say one for each year of HS. We have a persona debt and federal debt crisis.

I'd add, anyone running for offense should be able to prove they are not in debt, and know how to handle finances. This would immediately get 99% of all current politicians, but if you aren't fiscally conservative and intelligent then we don't need you in office.