Poll of the Day > How many innocent people actually died by Stalin's order?

(+) Yeah! (+)

People claim he killed an exorbitant amount of people. The claims range from 9 million to 60 million, some even claim that he killed 500 million people (lolwut).

But I just don't see it. So many of these numbers are bullshit and just cries propaganda. Some studies even include the amount of fucking nazis that were killed by Soviet Russia for fuck's sake.

THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...

People claim he killed an exorbitant amount of people. The claims range from 9 million to 60 million, some even claim that he killed 500 million people (lolwut).

But I just don't see it. So many of these numbers are bullshit and just cries propaganda. Some studies even include the amount of fucking nazis that were killed by Soviet Russia for fuck's sake.

They are counting people who died from starvation due to his policies.

Let me ask you this:
There's a grandma who's 60, sick and dying while not having enough food to properly get her strength back.
Did Stalin kill her?

shadowsword87 posted...

Let me ask you this:
There's a grandma who's 60, sick and dying while not having enough food to properly get her strength back.
Did Stalin kill her?

If Stalin was the reason for her not having food, yes.
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A lot of the massive numbers stated for figures like Mao and Stalin are heavily inflated by things like famine related deaths.
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Smarkil posted...

If Stalin was the reason for her not having food, yes.

OK sure, but it's perfectly reasonable for someone else who could claim she died from disease or old age, and not include her in their stats.

shadowsword87 posted...

Smarkil posted...

If Stalin was the reason for her not having food, yes.

OK sure, but it's perfectly reasonable for someone else who could claim she died from disease or old age, and not include her in their stats.

But they don't do that because then they wouldn't be able to push an anti-stalin narrative

shadowsword87 posted...

Smarkil posted...

If Stalin was the reason for her not having food, yes.

OK sure, but it's perfectly reasonable for someone else who could claim she died from disease or old age, and not include her in their stats.

The argument is pointless.

It's akin to using an anecdote to win an argument. When people cite death tolls in the millions it's not because of sick old people dying on their own. Additionally you didn't even attempt to clarify that the sickness wasn't due to hunger.

BlackScythe0 posted...

When people cite death tolls in the millions it's not because of sick old people dying on their own.

Bullshit. If people count something like the amount of Nazis they kill in war they'd most definitely count random natural causes that they could find any little shred of blame on Stalin

THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...

BlackScythe0 posted...

When people cite death tolls in the millions it's not because of sick old people dying on their own.

Bullshit. If people count something like the amount of Nazis they kill in war they'd most definitely count random natural causes that they could find any little shred of blame on Stalin

So Stalin was a good guy?

Statlin was nuts he killed 30k people in his own military which is why the war dragged on so long
Even the people he sent out to fight were ill equipped
no artillary, no medics
just marching in a straight line to the nazi's machine guns
if you flee'd you'd get shot in the back by your own people or worse for your family back home
Statlin should NOT be remembered as a good guy
No matter what a russian speaks to you

To show you what kind of man Statlin was there is an old story about
Statlin and two cohorts walking outside just after a storm
they come to a bridge and the river below it is swollen from the flood waters
a calf is stuck out on a lonely island in the middle
Statlin being the kind of man he is, rips off his clothes and jumps in before anyone says anything
he swims out to the calf and breaks it's legs
that's the kind of guy Statlin was
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BlackScythe0 posted...

THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...

BlackScythe0 posted...

When people cite death tolls in the millions it's not because of sick old people dying on their own.

Bullshit. If people count something like the amount of Nazis they kill in war they'd most definitely count random natural causes that they could find any little shred of blame on Stalin

So Stalin was a good guy?

I don't think so, he stretched out his countries borders and kept the concentration camps running long after the Nazi's lost
think of kim jon ill now to get a sense of what dictators where like or middle easterners are like, certain prisons in africa, yada yada yada
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Katyn massacre in poland was directly his order
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At least a dozen.
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kislev posted...

Katyn massacre in poland was directly his order

Holodomor too

but Hitler did the same thing almost a decade later to starve Russia
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shadowsword87 posted...

Smarkil posted...

If Stalin was the reason for her not having food, yes.

OK sure, but it's perfectly reasonable for someone else who could claim she died from disease or old age, and not include her in their stats.

And given that a dictatorial regime that was slaughtering its populace isn't likely to have kept detailed statistics on causes of death, it does get hard to tell who's actually right.
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AlleRacing posted...

A lot of the massive numbers stated for figures like Mao and Stalin are heavily inflated by things like famine related deaths.

I'd rather die by firing squad than famine.
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A lot of the numbers come from The Black Book of Communism, which supposedly has some serious errors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism

Shut the fuck up Tankie.
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RoboXgp89 posted...

kislev posted...

Katyn massacre in poland was directly his order

Holodomor too

but Hitler did the same thing almost a decade later to starve Russia

Hitler,Stalin,Mao and Pol Pot were all monsters. I really dont know how people like them slept at night knowing what they did
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A lot of it is due to food related policies, but this is partly a consequence of ruling over a large country with known food problems and trying to experiment with new food related policies. Similar to what happened with Mao. A lot of it is argued to have been a deliberate population purge though. Hard to say.

It gets more complicated if you're trying to look at what Stalin was personally responsible for, as opposed to the policies of those working for him. The famous Russian purges were carried out mostly on the instructions of the head of the secret police from my understanding, who later ended up being killed on Stalin's orders himself. It's arguable if you want to blame Stalin primarily for that, though he certainly shares a great deal of responsibility for it.