Current Events > Remember if you aren't paid properly your employer is not entitled to good work

(+) Yeah! (+)

You should do what you can to avoid screwing coworkers or customers over within reason though. There is no moral failing in giving half effort for half a reasonable wage.

This cannot apply to safety natch. A shit wage does not mean you can decide you don't feel like giving the bed ridden nursing home patient their meds.

I would argue this should be enshrined in the law. If you pay well under market rates/living wages, working conditions are too bad etc. a certain degree of poor performance or insubordination will not preclude you from unemployment if fired or quitting. As well as being inadmissable or weighted lower as a employer argument in possible discrimination cases.

It's weird that there's this kind of cultural expectation that you as a worker are supposed to go above and beyond in the labor you provide for an employer who will not go above and beyond when it comes to compensation.

UnsteadyOwl posted...

It's weird that there's this kind of cultural expectation that you as a worker are supposed to go above and beyond in the labor you provide for an employer who will not go above and beyond when it comes to compensation.

Agreed. Its wild shit.

I agree to a certain extent

sounds like I wont be asking for a promotion any time soon

UnsteadyOwl posted...

It's weird that there's this kind of cultural expectation that you as a worker are supposed to go above and beyond in the labor you provide for an employer who will not go above and beyond when it comes to compensation.

Unsuprised_Pika posted...

Agreed. Its wild shit.

It is.

There are employers out there that will match your commitment with proportionate compensation, but they are very much the minority.

Wtf are you even talking about

Kind of a crappy attitude.

Going above and beyond is rewarding in itself.

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

Kind of a crappy attitude.

Going above and beyond is rewarding in itself.

Not as rewarding as tons of the other things I'd rather do than work. I like my job and the people I work with, but I'd be out of there in a heartbeat without appropriate compensation.

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

Kind of a crappy attitude.

Going above and beyond is rewarding in itself.

Sometimes.

Feeling good about yourself isn't worth injury, off the clock work(like answering emails on your vacation time or working thru your break clocked out) and such.

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FkMWsO_-X7Y&pp=ygUUY2hhcmxpZSBtdXJwaHkgbGF1Z2g%3D

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

Kind of a crappy attitude.

Going above and beyond is rewarding in itself.

You can if you want to. An employer doesn't get to expect you to go above and beyond while they give you as little as they can get away with.

Besides, you can go above and beyond in your personal life. It's such a Boomer attitude that your career must be the thing that defines you.

Youre never going to get paid properly with a shitty loser attitude like that

I mean, it's enshrined into the law here that you have to work to the best of your ability

Through crucially, that also means that your employer can't demand a certain level of performance, only your best

My employer probably should be getting more out of me

I agree but it's better to just quit. Better for you and more taxing on a terrible employer.

Sure, but that attitude also almost assuredly feeds into a positive feedback loop where the employer never thinks well enough of an employee to give them meaningful raises, promotions, or job recommendations.

And to stem off a knee-jerk reaction, I'm in favor of increasing the minimum wage to an established living wage that's tied to inflation.

eggcorn posted...

I agree but it's better to just quit. Better for you and more taxing on a terrible employer.

Depends. The vast majority of so called "low skilled jobs" (and a fair amount of other jobs) underpay and a majority can afford to compensate better especially with better government policies enacted.

Like you cannot tell me Mcdonalds can't pay all its workers better. There are billions in profits + hundreds of millions if not billions in excessive executive pay to take from that would still leave quite a bit of profit.

Not everyone has a high value degree or many options around either.

And the way insurance is setup often makes switching jobs even harder.

eggcorn posted...

I agree but it's better to just quit. Better for you and more taxing on a terrible employer.

It's pretty common career advice these days that if you want to get paid what you're worth you're probably going to have to change employers several times over the course of your career. Most employers aren't willing to go very far to retain long-term employees like they used to.

UnsteadyOwl posted...

It's pretty common career advice these days that if you want to get paid what you're worth you're probably going to have to change employers several times over the course of your career. Most employers aren't willing to go very far to retain long-term employees like they used to.

Its more so just using their conflicting interests to your advantage. A company that wants to recruit you is going to offer up to as much as its worth to them to do so whereas your current employers goal is to keep you as cheaply as they can so they dont have to pay to train your replacement.

That's why they created performance reviews, so they can fire you for poor performance. All whilst slowly pushing up kpis to punishing levels that make you hate your life.

I'll preface this with, I like my current job. But here's how they do merit review:

• It's a 1-5 rating scale. They've come out and said, no one is deserving of a 5, no matter how much you do. So it's really a 1-4 rating scale.
• They give final ratings based on a forced bell curve. An example of this, I'm on a small team of 8. My boss straight up told me, even if he doesn't think any of us are doing a poor job, he has to rate one of us as "underperforming" on every review cycle.
• Merit increases are a fixed percentage. Let's say I'm rated a 3, and someone else is rated a 3, but they're really like a 3.5, even though we don't do fractions. Basically in my bosses eyes, the 3.5 performed better. We still get the same raise.

So yeah, I do as little as possible to get by, and keep myself out of the underperforming firing line.

UnsteadyOwl posted...

It's weird that there's this kind of cultural expectation that you as a worker are supposed to go above and beyond in the labor you provide for an employer who will not go above and beyond when it comes to compensation.

Because Marxism is frowned upon.

Unsuprised_Pika posted...

Feeling good about yourself isn't worth injury, off the clock work(like answering emails on your vacation time or working thru your break clocked out) and such.

Well that much goes without saying.

bluezero posted...

I'll preface this with, I like my current job. But here's how they do merit review:
* It's a 1-5 rating scale. They've come out and said, no one is deserving of a 5, no matter how much you do. So it's really a 1-4 rating scale.
* They give final ratings based on a forced bell curve. An example of this, I'm on a small team of 8. My boss straight up told me, even if he doesn't think any of us are doing a poor job, he has to rate one of us as "underperforming" on every review cycle.
* Merit increases are a fixed percentage. Let's say I'm rated a 3, and someone else is rated a 3, but they're really like a 3.5, even though we don't do fractions. Basically in my bosses eyes, the 3.5 performed better. We still get the same raise.

So yeah, I do as little as possible to get by, and keep myself out of the underperforming firing line.

Thats gross as hell wow. You could have every single person hitting every goal and still have someone getting dogged for "underperforming"

And no matter how exceptional they will always value you at least 20% below that.

Solid_Snake07 posted...

Its more so just using their conflicting interests to your advantage. A company that wants to recruit you is going to offer up to as much as its worth to them to do so whereas your current employers goal is to keep you as cheaply as they can so they dont have to pay to train your replacement.

Yeah, you should definitely be looking and interviewing for new positions every so often even if you ultimately end up staying with the same company. Having something else lined up gives you so much more leverage to ask for a raise. Maybe you get lucky and have an employer who's going to give you a nice pay increase just because they like you and they think you deserve it but most of the time that's not how it works.

bluezero posted...

So yeah, I do as little as possible to get by, and keep myself out of the underperforming firing line.

My job used to be 1-5 as well but now they changed it to "not always meeting expectations", "meeting expectations", and "exceeding expectations" for multiple criteria. I'm an analyst and I usually handle doing the analysis for our biggest transportation RFPs. This year they did the five biggest ones at the same exact time instead of spread out over a couple of months like in the past. This involved me having many late nights where I was working sometimes until 9 or 10:00 PM every night (if I was done by 7:00 PM it was a good day) in order to get everything done that was needed to be reviewed. My reward for this when I get my review last week? The same exact overall score of "meeting expectations" that I got last year and a 2% raise. Meanwhile, final decisions haven't been made on all of the RFPs but we're currently at over $20 million in save from these projects that I've done. The best part is you're required to do a self-evaluation prior to your own and no matter what score you give, it's usually ignored so what's the point? So yeah, from now on, if I work late it's only to make things a little easier for myself the next day because I'm expecting something else to be time consuming. Really the only benefit for this job is that I work with my best friend and it's 99% WFH except for 1 (2 at most) day(s) per month.

bluezero posted...

Merit increases are a fixed percentage. Let's say I'm rated a 3, and someone else is rated a 3, but they're really like a 3.5, even though we don't do fractions. Basically in my bosses eyes, the 3.5 performed better. We still get the same raise.

So yeah, I do as little as possible to get by, and keep myself out of the underperforming firing line.

Ugh... my first job was a bit like that. The manager kept telling me how I was doing a great job but once it came to the written performance reviews, which were directly tied to raises, he gave me mediocre marks for a lower raise. The effect on my work performance was so drastic and sudden that he shortly asked me after that, "What happened? You used to do such great work?" I was too young to say much, but if I faced that situation again today I'd just tell him, "Then pay me like I do. If my extra work isn't worth an extra percentage point or two of pay to you then why would I bother? I'm not running a charity here."

Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

My employer probably should be getting more out of me

This for me too lol

How are some people just realising in 2024 the work smart but not hard concept

I've been refusing to go above and beyond in the workplace since I was a teenager. It was always, always a case of "well I'll do this because I literally have to but I certainly don't want to"

UnsteadyOwl posted...

Yeah, you should definitely be looking and interviewing for new positions every so often even if you ultimately end up staying with the same company. Having something else lined up gives you so much more leverage to ask for a raise. Maybe you get lucky and have an employer who's going to give you a nice pay increase just because they like you and they think you deserve it but most of the time that's not how it works.

Eh, its typically going to be easier to get a job that pays better than to get a raise to that pay where you already work. And if youre working in the corporate world its become less and less common to promote from within. If your company promotes you they now have to replace you in the position your were originally in, whereas a company looking to fill a position just wants someone qualified to fill it.

Its just the way it is. People who change jobs every few years statistically will make a pretty substantial amount more over the course of their career.

Solid_Snake07 posted...

Eh, its typically going to be easier to get a job that pays better than to get a raise to that pay where you already work. And if youre working in the corporate world its become less and less common to promote from within. If your company promotes you they now have to replace you in the position your were originally in, whereas a company looking to fill a position just wants someone qualified to fill it.

Its just the way it is. People who change jobs every few years statistically will make a pretty substantial amount more over the course of their career.

Ive always been a job hopper, but Ive also had several occasions where Ive gone to my employer and told them Ive got a better offer elsewhere and theyve either offered to match it or beat it.

TC are you by chance my boss, pissed off that the quality of my work is making you feel like your job is threatened?