Current Events > Maturity is realizing Tony was right and Cap was wrong (MCU spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sufferedphoenix posted...

I wouldn't say it's the same. Nobody had a clue what kinda president he would be as he had no political past. Then he didn't get reelected and in my lifetime I don't think that's ever happened. It's always seemed to be 8 years of a dem 8 years of a rep. Rinse and repeat.

I mean Trump is still actively in a position to be president again though

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

I mean Trump is still actively in a position to be president again though

Yeah but if Biden loses that's his own damn fault. It will be more people where displeased with him than liking Trump. Yeah trumps got a cult following but it's not enough to carry him should Biden have enough support. Only way I think Trump wins is not people swinging to his side and voting for him but enough people just not voting.

Tony: *pushes for accords and says "you have to take responsibility" like he's an anime character in a hentai porn*

Also Tony: *gets a 16 year old kid involved in his bullshit and fight superpowered beings*

I shiggy diggy-doo

Tony was right in theory, but since this is about the specific situation and not a hypothetical in a vacuum, Cap was 100% correct in practice, as the movies illustrated. And it wasn't like it was a lucky guess or anything, they knew about Ross and the government, so that made Cap even more correct since Tony wanted to do it, anyway.

Imagine wasting that huge arc on that one-off flick.

cjsdowg posted...

Captain America fucked up the timeline just so he can get with his girl. Tony left this his daughter to protect the world. Cap is selfish Tony is selfless.

It's not the same timeline.

So he fucked up a different timeline?

Tony was right in the sense that the group needed to play nicely because the common people were upset with them, but ultimately, Cap was right that the team should be able to act of their own accord.

Cap was right in the movies and the comics, and even the games. He was the betterment of the people as a whole.

MysteryMan923 posted...

So he fucked up a different timeline?

Nah, just created a new one.

HashtagSEP posted...

Cap was 100% correct in practice, as the movies illustrated.

The movie had Cap being lead by the nose by Zemo with there being no actual threat. The final fight could have been avoided had Steve told Tony about his parents, but was too afraid to due to the Bucky component. Cap took no responsibility for his failure leading to the bombing despite Wanda being held responsible for it and his team ended up on the run or under house arrest.

hyperskate65 posted...

Cap was right in the movies and the comics, and even the games. He was the betterment of the people as a whole.

Wanda messes up two African City, and Cap things come confinement is too much. Then he is nowhere to be found when she goes on a killing spree.

cjsdowg posted...

Wanda messes up two African City, and Cap things come confinement is too much. Then he is nowhere to be found when she goes on a killing spree.

The Ultron situation is one thing (that Tony was mostly responsible for in the first place), but in Civil War, there wasn't much Wanda could do about the situation. The guy was gonna kill a bunch of people regardless.

And what do you mean on the second point? Cap was either dead or a frail old man.

Tony was right, but the way he handled it was wrong. Cap was wrong, and the way he handled it was wrong.

I wouldn't be willing to trust any centralized authority after finding out that my own government was just being run by Nazis

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

The Ultron situation is one thing (that Tony was mostly responsible for in the first place), but in Civil War, there wasn't much Wanda could do about the situation. The guy was gonna kill a bunch of people regardless.

And what do you mean on the second point? Cap was either dead or a frail old man.

Ultron was Wanda too. She literally messed with Tony's mind to get him to do that. Then help Ultron every step of the way until the very end. Also Banner was there too, he also gets off. But what I was talking about was when Wanda mind control the Hulk and set him lose in South Africa.

Besides Cap making the choice to not stay around and do anything. That is the point, Captain America would not always be there, it could be someone horrible who is doing stuff like Frank Castle and there needs to be oversight over people like that.

A lot of things piss me off about avengers 3/3.5, but cap going back in time to peggy is up there.

You know what its like? It's literally the male version of titanic, that awful scene where rose dreams her happiest moment is not the life she lived, man she married and family she had, but that one time she banged some dude on a ship, even if he was teen heartthrob Leo de Caprio.

Except here it's worse because not only did it actually happen in the movie, but we know that peggy married another man and had a full life with him, so cap effectively erases that man. Also makes out with his... I guess would-be neice, Sharon Carter? Literally channeling a reverse that futurama episode there...

God I loathe those 2 movies, they're when I personally consider the downfall of the mcu, you can trace it back to them.

The whole thing is a farce. The real UN has no real teeth in the world. The USA set the bar for interfering in the world. Russia wanted a war with Ukraine, so it got one. Israel wants to genocide Gaza, so it is currently doing so. The UN is impotent. Imagine the MCU UN arguing about some small nation using the Avengers in a way that Ross doesnt agree with. No way that happens. Theres no way any oversight is possible. Its like the Avengers are the only set of nuclear weapons in the world and theyre just gonna get shared and passed around. Get outta here with that nonsense.

Would Cap have even done what he did were it not for Peggy's eulogy? Seems like that line really stuck in his mind that others should move, which isn't a bad line. But when national security and his team is on the line he might be putting a little too much stock into something an old lady he wanted to fuck said.

Revisited posted...

Except here it's worse because not only did it actually happen in the movie, but we know that peggy married another man and had a full life with him, so cap effectively erases that man.

It's a new timeline, so he didn't erase that man, that men just never got with Peggy.

Agreed tbh

HashtagSEP posted...

It's a new timeline, so he didn't erase that man, that men just never got with Peggy.

Great hero there

cjsdowg posted...

Great hero there

We get it, you don't like Captain America.

cjsdowg posted...

Besides Cap making the choice to not stay around and do anything. That is the point, Captain America would not always be there, it could be someone horrible who is doing stuff like Frank Castle and there needs to be oversight over people like that.

...which is precisely why he already chose his successor.

MysteryMan923 posted...

Would Cap have even done what he did were it not for Peggy's eulogy? Seems like that line really stuck in his mind that others should move, which isn't a bad line. But when national security and his team is on the line he might be putting a little too much stock into something an old lady he wanted to fuck said.

not really because again it wasnt about regulation. It was about being contracted to follow orders.

So putting stock into the statement that the government shouldnt try to control things out of their control makes a lot of sense.

I too would be in favor of the mutant registration act.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

which is precisely why he already chose his successor.

This is hard for me to say . Since there are so few black male heroes in the MCU. But that dude was nicer to terrorist than a goofy hero who asked for his help. Sam is horrible .

HashtagSEP posted...

We get it, you don't like Captain America.

It was a valid critique.

MysteryMan923 posted...

It was a valid critique.

Was it? Was it even a critique at all? They didn't explain said viewpoint at all. They made an assumption, were proven wrong on said assumption, and then just... Gave a sarcastic reply. Not exactly a "critique."

StealThisSheen posted...

Was it? Was it even a critique at all? They didn't explain said viewpoint at all. They made an assumption, were proven wrong on said assumption, and then just... Gave a sarcastic reply. Not exactly a "critique."

Seemed straightfoward to me. He "stole" someone else's girl. Generally, that's not a white meat babyface thing to do.

I don't remember what they were fighting about tbh

I just remember the part where the real bad guy was just some nerd with a computer that nobody had ever seen before.

MysteryMan923 posted...

Seemed straightfoward to me. He "stole" someone else's girl. Generally, that's not a white meat babyface thing to do.

He didn't, though, because in the timeline that was created, they never even met. That dude likely ended up happy with somebody else. She only met the guy in the first place because Steve "died." In the timeline that was created, Steve just never fully "died." The version of the guy that actually ended up with Peggy literally knows no difference.

MysteryMan923 posted...

Seemed straightfoward to me. He "stole" someone else's girl. Generally, that's not a white meat babyface thing to do.

Wasn't it his girl before the other guy though? Can't blame thr woman for moving on after assuming Steve dead

MysteryMan923 posted...

Seemed straightfoward to me. He "stole" someone else's girl. Generally, that's not a white meat babyface thing to do.

Captain America is funny.. Well Steve Roger is. People love him so much no matter what he does people will support him. So he either made a whole new time life for his own wants , or the went back in time and let every bad thing happen from 1945 until 2011.

There is not way these two things are not horrible and doesn't prove the point Tony's point. He just took it on to himself to say fuck the world .

Gotta go with Cap

Tony is 100% right especially since they basically ignore the treaty anyway in Infinity War and suffer zero consequences for it proving Cap's fears were completely unfounded.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Tony is 100% right especially since they basically ignore the treaty anyway in Infinity War and suffer zero consequences for it proving Cap's fears were completely unfounded.

There were no consequences because half the world was wiped out.

And none of them in that movie stopped and waited for the UN to ask them to intervene.

Are we explicitly talking about the MCU or the comics?

Because Cap was blatantly in the wrong during MCU Civil War, even with Tonys poor handling of the situation. It didnt need to be just the U.S. government trying to keep supes in check and monitored. It was a global issue for any supe from any part of the world.

Caps ideology in this scenario is exactly why we had/have war in the Middle East.

Cap was obviously right. Heroes... they're not like us.

Yet when everyone was unblipped Sam didn't recieve any consequences for aiding Cap and breaking out of jail. They sound feckless.