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Current Events > Maturity is realizing Tony was right and Cap was wrong (MCU spoilers)

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MysteryMan923
04/10/24 11:21:42 PM
#1:


nt

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PoopPotato
04/10/24 11:22:11 PM
#2:


Cap won

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Seaman_Prime
04/10/24 11:23:20 PM
#3:


Tony was mad at Bucky when he shouldve been mad at Hydra. Cap was a true bro now and always
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LSGW_Zephyra
04/10/24 11:23:25 PM
#4:


Maturity is not hanging maturity on what superheroes do or do not do

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GrandConjuraton
04/10/24 11:23:40 PM
#5:


LSGW_Zephyra posted...
Maturity is not hanging maturity on what superheroes do or do not do


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BearlyWilling
04/10/24 11:24:33 PM
#6:


Seaman_Prime posted...
Tony was mad at Bucky when he shouldve been mad at Hydra. Cap was a true bro now and always


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Hmm...
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cjsdowg
04/10/24 11:27:17 PM
#7:


Wanda proves Tony right.

This is Team Cap...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/1ed8af66.jpg

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MysteryMan923
04/10/24 11:28:09 PM
#8:


True bro Cap got his teammates arrested and the Avengers disbanded, which put the entire planet at risk, all so Bucky could

*check notes*

Twirl Rocket around in Endgame. Not exactly a net positive for the risk reward.

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elizajanegirl
04/10/24 11:30:13 PM
#9:


Lol. I go back and forth. But I still love them both

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MysteryMan923
04/11/24 8:53:26 AM
#10:


PoopPotato posted...
Cap won

What did he win?

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mystic_belmont
04/11/24 8:56:18 AM
#11:


Knowing the secret identities allows governments to exert pressure on superheroes to do as they wish.

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cjsdowg
04/11/24 8:56:54 AM
#12:


mystic_belmont posted...
Knowing the secret identities allows governments to exert pressure on superheroes to do as they wish.

MUC everyone already knows them.

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ClayGuida
04/11/24 8:56:57 AM
#13:


PoopPotato posted...
Cap won
At the expense of his friends lives.

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Wedge_Antilles
04/11/24 9:00:34 AM
#14:


They were both right and wrong. Superheroes can't be vigilantes but the government couldn't be trusted to not **** it up.

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superben
04/11/24 9:04:47 AM
#15:


Captain should've died like in the comic
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Irony
04/11/24 9:05:17 AM
#16:


Captain should have been a secret Hydra agent like in the comic

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pegusus123456
04/11/24 9:05:34 AM
#17:


Tony is theoretically in the right, but every time the government is involved in an MCU movie, they're either incompetent or willfully malicious.

So kinda have to go with Cap

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mystic_belmont
04/11/24 9:09:28 AM
#18:


pegusus123456 posted...
Tony is theoretically in the right, but every time the government is involved in an MCU movie, they're either incompetent or willfully malicious.

So kinda have to go with Cap

Exactly. How many governments would love to draft superheroes into wars to end them quicker?

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Metal_Gear_Raxis
04/11/24 9:09:44 AM
#19:


So the thing is, oversight into a group like the Avengers is good, but the Sokovia Accords were ludicrously overreaching.

https://youtu.be/TDMd40a-A4c?si=Wm3PucO7V2K5FFbn

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MysteryMan923
04/11/24 9:17:08 AM
#20:


A hamstrung Avengers is still better than no Avengers.

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lolife67
04/11/24 9:20:13 AM
#21:


In real life, I'd be on Tony's side 100%. I'd definitely want some kind of oversight with superheroes just as I do for normal cops.

In a fictional setting, Cap is right.
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cjsdowg
04/11/24 9:25:29 AM
#22:


Captain America fucked up the timeline just so he can get with his girl. Tony left this his daughter to protect the world. Cap is selfish Tony is selfless.

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WingsOfGood
04/11/24 9:27:12 AM
#23:


Cap had that speech though.

YOU MOVE
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Dungeater
04/11/24 9:30:20 AM
#24:


cjsdowg posted...
Captain America fucked up the timeline just so he can get with his girl. Tony left this his daughter to protect the world. Cap is selfish Tony is selfless.
the man who spent his entire adult life sacrificing himself and going against the odds is selfish

fuck him for wanting to be happy after 70 years

he did the same exact shit iron man did after they lost in infinity war. he stopped fighting so he could experience family

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Makeveli_lives
04/11/24 9:30:20 AM
#25:


mystic_belmont posted...
Knowing the secret identities allows governments to exert pressure on superheroes to do as they wish.
Only one with a secret identity was Spider-Man and Ant-Man at that point. Arguably Black Panther but his entire country knew who he was

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Sufferedphoenix
04/11/24 9:34:11 AM
#26:


mystic_belmont posted...
Knowing the secret identities allows governments to exert pressure on superheroes to do as they wish.

This. My only thing would be heroes should be held accountable for their actions as much as say a cop should realistically be (I say realistic cause we know they get too much immunity)

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Revisited
04/11/24 9:39:48 AM
#27:


Holy crap the avengers literally caused the problems of both movies! Well the 2nd one is more egregious, Tony literally created the robot that destroyed sokovia and also hacked the internet (since that's a thing after all)

How is Tony not paying like 1 trillion dollars to the nation of sokovia and all the people and families in South Africa and wherever Ultron was. It's literally Tony's fault. Forget "paying for the tuition of everyone at MIT" how about you, oh I don't know, pay money to the people who got affected by your own fucking robot?

At least with the first movie it's Thor's brother not Thor himself, so if I understand the law correctly (and I do) he's only half culpable for what happened, so deserves only half the punishment and fine/reparations for the NYC family and the dude who got his eye plucked out.
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cjsdowg
04/11/24 9:40:49 AM
#28:


Dungeater posted...
the man who spent his entire adult life sacrificing himself and going against the odds is selfish

fuck him for wanting to be happy after 70 years

he did the same exact shit iron man did after they lost in infinity war. he stopped fighting so he could experience family

Not 70 of his years. And he compromised everyone's life because of his want. They explained how dangerous time travel could be. And does it anyway. Yeah he is selfish. Just like he didn't want his friend that killed people to face trial like everyone else. He literally attacks and kos innocents people on the raft to get his criminal friends out. All pretty selfish .

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Sufferedphoenix
04/11/24 9:44:11 AM
#29:


cjsdowg posted...
Not 70 of his years. And he compromised everyone's life because of his want. They explained how dangerous time travel could be. And does it anyway. Yeah he is selfish. Just like he didn't want his friend that killed people to face trial like everyone else. He literally attacks and kos innocents people on the raft to get his criminal friends out. All pretty selfish .

I wouldn't call bucky a criminal he was brainwashed. At worst I'd have him confined for mental evaluation until deemed sane and of his own mind.

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Revisited
04/11/24 9:45:57 AM
#30:


Sufferedphoenix posted...
I wouldn't call bucky a criminal he was brainwashed. At worst I'd have him confined for mental evaluation until deemed sane and of his own mind.
This is like advocating for rehabilitation over incarceration/punishment.
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Sufferedphoenix
04/11/24 9:50:28 AM
#31:


Revisited posted...
This is like advocating for rehabilitation over incarceration/punishment.

For someone who did things totally against their will. Yes.

In a more realistic scenario if someone committed some crimes and it was discovered they where being forced by like idk say the real criminal had their kid hostage I'd definitely give them leniency

This case being brainwashing I'd want confinement just to evaluate him and make sure he's of his own mind and should no longer be problematic.

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UnsteadyOwl
04/11/24 9:50:37 AM
#32:


If the Avengers can legally operate without government oversight then any other billionaire could fund their own paramilitary group who could operate however they choose and may not be so interested in serving the best interests of the public. Some kind of oversight is needed for that reason alone.

That said, we kinda saw in Infinity War that the Sokovia Accords effectively meant Ross was in charge of the Avengers, which isn't a great solution.

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RchHomieQuanChi
04/11/24 9:52:20 AM
#33:


Tony telling the government "Superheroes need accountability!" when he was the one who caused 90% of the problems lol

(Yes I realize it was his own guilt that drove this decision.)

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DarthAragorn
04/11/24 9:53:49 AM
#34:


The previous Captain America movie proves that shit wrong so nah lol

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WingsOfGood
04/11/24 9:53:55 AM
#35:


Cap whispers silently
"Hail hydra"
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MysteryMan923
04/11/24 9:56:25 AM
#36:


DarthAragorn posted...
The previous Captain America movie proves that shit wrong so nah lol

Ross is a Hydra agent?

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Metal_Gear_Raxis
04/11/24 9:57:11 AM
#37:


UnsteadyOwl posted...
That said, we kinda saw in Infinity War that the Sokovia Accords effectively meant Ross was in charge of the Avengers, which isn't a great solution.
Yeah, the fact that a guy who did ALL OF THIS:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/cfaf52ae.png

would have been in charge of the Avengers raises about ten billion red flags, roflmao. The bit about Brazil was legally the United States invading the country.

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Sufferedphoenix
04/11/24 9:59:27 AM
#38:


UnsteadyOwl posted...
If the Avengers can legally operate without government oversight then any other billionaire could fund their own paramilitary group who could operate however they choose and may not be so interested in serving the best interests of the public. Some kind of oversight is needed for that reason alone.

That said, we kinda saw in Infinity War that the Sokovia Accords effectively meant Ross was in charge of the Avengers, which isn't a great solution.

Yeah I'm on the fence. I feel like both sides where extremes where a more acceptable middle ground coulda been met. It wouldn't be easy but something where super heroes could be held accountable but there is things put in place where any government can coerce them into doing their bidding.

But then again are you really gonna coerce say Thor into being a government lackey? It only works with superman on the DC side because he has a sense of patriotism. To the point he initially wouldn't oppose lex Luthor being elected president because it was the will of the people.

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MysteryMan923
04/11/24 10:01:06 AM
#39:


Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...
Yeah, the fact that a guy who did ALL OF THIS:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/cfaf52ae.png

would have been in charge of the Avengers raises about ten billion red flags, roflmao. The bit about Brazil was legally the United States invading the country.

Apparently, people like what he's doing. He's the president in the next Cap movie.

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DarthAragorn
04/11/24 10:02:36 AM
#40:


Also didn't Tony himself completely ignore everything about the accords in Infinity War? I sure don't recall him giving Ross a phone call before taking any action.

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RchHomieQuanChi
04/11/24 10:03:47 AM
#41:


Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...
Yeah, the fact that a guy who did ALL OF THIS:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/cfaf52ae.png

would have been in charge of the Avengers raises about ten billion red flags, roflmao. The bit about Brazil was legally the United States invading the country.

Plus we've already seen from Wakanda Forever and FATWS that the U.S. government is still just like the real U.S. government in that they want to exploit foreign nations for their resources and use their military might to bully the rest of the world.

What stops them from sending in the Avengers to colonize foreign nations or perform a military coup?

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lolife67
04/11/24 10:05:12 AM
#42:


The only reason Cap is right is because we know the inner thoughts of these characters. So we know their true motivations and how they think.

However, irl, we don't have that luxury and if the Avengers did exist and the same events happened, you're damn right we'd probably all be on Tony's side.
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RchHomieQuanChi
04/11/24 10:05:18 AM
#43:


MysteryMan923 posted...
Apparently, people like what he's doing. He's the president in the next Cap movie.

It likely has something to do with all the fear mongering about the Skrulls from Secret Invasion

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lolife67
04/11/24 10:06:02 AM
#44:


DarthAragorn posted...
Also didn't Tony himself completely ignore everything about the accords in Infinity War? I sure don't recall him giving Ross a phone call before taking any action.
Yes and and that was also his point. Just agree to appease the U.N. and then do what you want anyway lol
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DarthAragorn
04/11/24 10:06:14 AM
#45:


MysteryMan923 posted...
Apparently, people like what he's doing. He's the president in the next Cap movie.
We live in a country barely 3 years removed from Donald Trump being president

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MysteryMan923
04/11/24 10:09:56 AM
#46:


RchHomieQuanChi posted...
Plus we've already seen from Wakanda Forever and FATWS that the U.S. government is still just like the real U.S. government in that they want to exploit foreign nations for their resources and use their military might to bully the rest of the world.

What stops them from sending in the Avengers to colonize foreign nations or perform a military coup?

Ignore the order. If he pushes it, push him out. Wouldn't be the first time they deposed a powerful political figure.

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Sufferedphoenix
04/11/24 10:10:23 AM
#47:


DarthAragorn posted...
We live in a country barely 3 years removed from Donald Trump being president

I wouldn't say it's the same. Nobody had a clue what kinda president he would be as he had no political past. Then he didn't get reelected and in my lifetime I don't think that's ever happened. It's always seemed to be 8 years of a dem 8 years of a rep. Rinse and repeat.

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RchHomieQuanChi
04/11/24 10:11:27 AM
#48:


MysteryMan923 posted...
Ignore the order. If he pushes it, push him out. Wouldn't be the first time they deposed a powerful political figure.

Considering what Cap just went through by this point in Cap 2 though, he probably wouldn't be convinced that Ross's orders aren't coming directly from the White House.

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MysteryMan923
04/11/24 10:15:25 AM
#49:


RchHomieQuanChi posted...
Considering what Cap just went through by this point in Cap 2 though, he probably wouldn't be convinced that Ross's orders aren't coming directly from the White House.

Push them out too. They did that in Iron Man 3.

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ssb_yunglink2
04/11/24 10:15:43 AM
#50:


RchHomieQuanChi posted...
It likely has something to do with all the fear mongering about the Skrulls from Secret Invasion
Secret invasion needed to be way fucking better than it was if movies are gonna hinge on its events

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