Current Events > Sitting down and talking and compromising with your political enemies is

(+) Yeah! (+)

Prototypic posted...

It's weird how this sentiment always seems directed at Democrats, as if they were the ones unwilling to compromise, as if Democrats don't repeatedly attempt to negotiate and make deals. Compromise and cooperation might be the optimal strategy for getting things done, but there's only so much bad faith, performative, backstabbing bullshit that can be tolerated before that strategy is off the table, and I'd argue we hit that milestone decades ago.

I think it's because republicans have been lead around by the nose by the worst people in media, religion, and politics... and they are now completely divorced from any ethical obligations to truth, intellectual consistency, patriotism, or basic humanity.

You can try and defend the "official" platform and say you just want lower taxes and "state's rights" - which has also been shown to be a fair weather belief - but the rest of that party is embracing religious extremism, white nationalism, bigotry, misogyny, chaotic foreign policy, embrace of dictators, anti-science, and so many more bad positions.

When Republicans demand compromise, what they're really asking for is appeasement. Which is par for the course, given their general misunderstanding of multisyllabic words.

Torgo posted...

I think it's because republicans have been lead around by the nose by the worst people in media, religion, and politics... and they are now completely divorced from any ethical obligations to truth, intellectual consistency, patriotism, or basic humanity.

You can try and defend the "official" platform and say you just want lower taxes and "state's rights" - which has also been shown to be a fair weather belief - but the rest of that party is embracing religious extremism, white nationalism, bigotry, misogyny, chaotic foreign policy, embrace of dictators, anti-science, and so many more bad positions.

This is right, but it is even worse than that. The GOP isnt just embracing bigotry, misogyny etc. when the Party realized no one in the mainstream was going to vote for their dumb platform, they sought out extremists and embraced them as sort of an untapped pool of voters. The anger stoked by the GOP wasnt just a random thing-they actively started tailoring their message to draw in voters who hold vile beliefs.

It is a fine distraction I am making here, but I think an important one. The GOP didnt just evolve into a party of deplorables. They saw bringing extremists in as a way to cling to power when the majority of society rejected their dumb policies-and spent decades actively reaching out to the kind of gullible, hateful moron who would participate in an attempt to overturn a fair election.

The GOP actively chose this instead of, you know, coming up with some policies a rational person might actually support.

Can't compromise with fascists.

ClayGuida posted...

Can't compromise with fascists.

I wrote a lot of words my last two posts, but these four boil it down just fine.

masterpug53 posted...

Which is par for the course, given their general misunderstanding of multisyllabic words.

and mono-syllabic words, particularly pronouns.

Torgo posted...

I think it's because republicans have been lead around by the nose by the worst people in media, religion, and politics... and they are now completely divorced from any ethical obligations to truth, intellectual consistency, patriotism, or basic humanity.

You can try and defend the "official" platform and say you just want lower taxes and "state's rights" - which has also been shown to be a fair weather belief - but the rest of that party is embracing religious extremism, white nationalism, bigotry, misogyny, chaotic foreign policy, embrace of dictators, anti-science, and so many more bad positions.

I think it's even worse than that. So much emphasis is placed on factions and labels that people will consistently act against their own interests just so "their" team can win. I've seen so many self described Republican voters that straight up agree with the far left on many policies when you take teams out of it. This isn't horseshoe bullshit, they have left wing views. However, their identity as a Republican takes priority over their views, mostly because they're so scared of ""them"".

This doesn't change the fact that their actions are harmful, only that many of them aren't inherently evil.

No, you get shit done by not allowing fascists to run around propping up a genocide. You get shit done by identifying the elements that threaten democracy and human rights, then excising them immediately.

So is Civil War the answer then?

reincarnator07 posted...

I think it's even worse than that. So much emphasis is placed on factions and labels that people will consistently act against their own interests just so "their" team can win. I've seen so many self described Republican voters that straight up agree with the far left on many policies when you take teams out of it. This isn't horseshoe bullshit, they have left wing views. However, their identity as a Republican takes priority over their views, mostly because they're so scared of ""them"".

This doesn't change the fact that their actions are harmful, only that many of them aren't inherently evil.

Yeah, what you are describing here is an American populism that was born out of the last few decades of growing income inequality and then solidified after a series of financial industry crashes and bailouts created through greed and incompetence.

Both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders tapped into this populism, but unfortunately America picked the fake populist with a gold toilet in his exclusive golf resort none of these rank and file MAGA voters would be allowed to set foot on, even in their nicest clothes.

But this conservative populism, which does share some values with the far left labor movement and other legitimate organizational populist movements on the left... also has some key differences: Right wing populists are extremely xenophobic and want to cut off most of all immigration from poor or non-white countries as an example, while on the left the labor populists think we solve immigration by making jobs have appealing and livable wages for native born citizens, instead of a second class labor force afraid to speak out against employee abuses driving down wages.

Rosstin316 posted...

So is Civil War the answer then?

Those are the only two choices?

Capitulation to fascists, or civil war?

Are you watching Tim Pool?

Rosstin316 posted...

So is Civil War the answer then?

These pussies have been threatening civil war and secession for my entire life. They'll never do it.

Torgo posted...

Those are the only two choices?

Capitulation to fascists, or civil war?

What is option 3?

Rosstin316 posted...

What is option 3?

Outvote them and out work them until they realize that courting extremism is not a viable path to victory long term.

People who say this kind of shit in American politics usually mean democrats need to coddle the already entitled repugs. They're quite supportive of said repugs having this mentality:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7ae1fd1d.jpg

Their "reaching across the aisle" only goes on way, and they usually mean give the repugs 200% of what they want, even if they don't aren't in power.

Working with fascists has never gone well

mercurydude posted...

People who say this kind of shit in American politics usually mean democrats need to coddle the already entitled repugs. They're quite supportive of said repugs having this mentality:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7ae1fd1d.jpg

Their "reaching across the aisle" only goes on way, and they usually mean give the repugs 200% of what they want, even if they don't aren't in power.

Wonder if both of those guys are dead now.

TC is WARNED

Dill will learn this time for sure

I'm sure a mysterious alt will show up in a bit crying about being modded for their opinions

Torgo posted...

Yeah, what you are describing here is an American populism that was born out of the last few decades of growing income inequality and then solidified after a series of financial industry crashes and bailouts created through greed and incompetence.

Both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders tapped into this populism, but unfortunately America picked the fake populist with a gold toilet in his exclusive golf resort none of these rank and file MAGA voters would be allowed to set foot on, even in their nicest clothes.

But this conservative populism, which does share some values with the far left labor movement and other legitimate organizational populist movements on the left... also has some key differences: Right wing populists are extremely xenophobic and want to cut off most of all immigration from poor or non-white countries as an example,

It's not so much that they share the values as much as they're identifying the same problems. This honestly is why Trump did so well in 2016, he tapped into that feeling of being left behind. He's absolutely focused the outrage on other poor people though, classic divide and conquer from fascists.

while on the left the labor populists think we solve immigration by making jobs have appealing and livable wages for native born citizens, instead of a second class labor force afraid to speak out against employee abuses driving down wages.

Eh? Which lefties have been advocating for living wages specifically for native born citizens? Living wages should be for all.

Knew It.

Nah, fuck em. At least start to follow basic laws, gain an understanding that free rights apply to all legal Americans, including the ones you don't like or you think your religion teaches you to hate and make it your purpose to obstruct their rights and lives. Understand that there is a separation of church and state, Stop saying fuck freedom of religion, you need to follow MY religion and we will continue to try to force biblical teaching into law, as Christianity has zero place in our LAW as it's written, same goes with every other religion. Put a lot more focus of your religious energy addressing the ongoing child rape at your churches.

It's the absolute basics that they want to say fuck you to, MY religion is right so we are just going to keep ignoring law and disrespect the Jews, Muslims, Buddhist, and all the rest that live here freely also because they are just "wrong." They don't deserve freedom of religion because Americans should only be whte, Christian and straight or you aren't a "real American."

Stop attacking women's bodies and rights, and letting women die because "no exception" abortion is now killing women. It's fucking disgusting, you aren't medical professionals, you are overpaid politicians.

Maybe then i'd begin to consider compromise, but if they are too incompetent to follow the laws they are hired to uphold and abide by, it's like me calling a plumber to fix my car. I'd rather people who understand and are capable of doing their jobs as it's written in our amendments and constitution. The current Republican party is hateful, obstructive, and incompetent, while backing a criminal, draft dodging rapist selling bibles with an American flag on them as your primary candidate. There's nothing there right now, they exist to anger and make people's lives miserable that don't vote for them. Again, fuck them, I hope they get obliterated in November.

DarthAragorn posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c867e095.jpg

The great thing is that this has evidence in both Biblical and historical contexts. (Well both are history, but for those who aren't religious...)

Turns out human rights usually aren't won by asking nicely, but by having terrible things done to the people who get in the way of those rights.

What if my enemies can't be reasoned with? What if they know they're wrong, don't care they're wrong and are intent on being spiteful?

Literal posters on this board have said that the Democrats need to realize that some LGBTQ issues are election losers and move on, such as gender-affirming healthcare for teens

hockeybabe89 posted...

Literal posters on this board have said that the Democrats need to realize that some LGBTQ issues are election losers and move on, such as gender-affirming healthcare for teens

Oh yeah. Pretty awful.

Of course it's easy for someone to list another as an "acceptable loss" when they aren't part of the group. Which is naturally what the opposition wants.

"Throw trans people under the bus. They're politically unpopular."

"Throw bisexual people under the bus. They're politically unpopular. "

"Throw brown people under the bus. They're politically unpopular."

It's a lot easier to take away our rights when we're convinced the other person is a sacrifice.

When it comes down to economics both parties are corporatists, so are quite willing compromise if it means helping out their benefactors. Even on some of the side stuff it is mostly Kubuki theater, a lot of wind is exchanged, but ultimately nothing meaningful in terms of actual substance. Like illegal immigration for instance. The Republicans will talk the talk, but when it comes down to it, they like the cheap labor that comes along with it, so don't legislate against it too harshly. Dispite the increased drama, I see more similarities than differences amongst the parties now a days.

RadDude9000 posted...

how things get done.

That's life.

You all need to accept this. It's not ideal, but it's reality.

Peace.

You're absolutely right and I got a good laugh of the first few replies you got. So much for being tolerant, moral high ground, yada yada yada

@xlr_big-coop

You're absolutely right and I got a good laugh of the first few replies you got. So much for being tolerant, moral high ground, yada yada yada

So you think racism, sexism and homophobia are minor issues?

xlr_big-coop posted...

You're absolutely right and I got a good laugh of the first few replies you got. So much for being tolerant, moral high ground, yada yada yada

Care to respond to any of the questions directed at TC before he got warned?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/19c6c97d.jpg

Westernwolf4 posted...

Outvote them and out work them until they realize that courting extremism is not a viable path to victory long term.

You can't out-vote fascists because they'll cheat. You can outlaw them, though.

xlr_big-coop posted...

You're absolutely right and I got a good laugh of the first few replies you got. So much for being tolerant, moral high ground, yada yada yada

"Why won't you tolerate our intolerance!" - the post

MabusIncarnate posted...

free rights apply to all legal Americans

I haven't done the math, but of all the rights enumerated in the Constitution, like 90% of them apply to everyone on American soil, and not just "legal" Americans.

There are a few corner cases, though, where non-citizens are locked out of certain rights or privileges. By and large, though, the rights we recognize are ones we recognize for anyone within our borders.

DnDer posted...

You can't out-vote fascists because they'll cheat. You can outlaw them, though.

Sure you can. The last few elections we have. I think we will in November too.

The fascist cheating adds a degree of difficulty. It is absolutely not going to be easy, for that and other reasons. The main reason being that the GOP has cultivated a rabid, uninformed base that will vote R no matter what.

No one said it is going to be easy. The hill to climb is huge in fact. But it is absolutely possible. And, in fact, it is the only plausible way out of the mess the GOP has created long term.

DragonClaw01 posted...

Dispite the increased drama, I see more similarities than differences amongst the parties now a days.

"Both sides."

Heineken14 posted...

"Why won't you tolerate our intolerance!" - the post

I've always been a fan of the Red Skull, "So much for the tolerant left!" meme, especially when he literally says the thing.

Westernwolf4 posted...

Sure you can. The last few elections we have. I think we will in November too.

Lol they're still fucking there. Ain't shit got voted out.

Antiyonder posted...

@xlr_big-coop

So you think racism, sexism and homophobia are minor issues?

Yes, because they don't effect him.

Antiyonder posted...

@xlr_big-coop

So you think racism, sexism and homophobia are minor issues?

I checked their tag. This definitely tracks.

hockeybabe89 posted...

Literal posters on this board have said that the Democrats need to realize that some LGBTQ issues are election losers and move on, such as gender-affirming healthcare for teens

It's like they think we only support the LGBTQ community because we want their votes.

They don't seem to be able to understand empathy and that some people support them because they think they should have a right to exist.

The fucking speaker of the house claimed that his god spoke directly to him and told him he's to be the next Moses. What compromise exists with the people who choose that lunatic as their representative

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Lol they're still fucking there. Ain't shit got voted out.

Of course they are still there. Who thinks an election suddenly changes the heart of people? Or changes the balance of power in one shot? Your post completely misses the point.

Keeping them away from the levers of power as much as possible is the point. Pushing this MAGA crap into the wilderness through diminishing power is the point. Forcing the toxic GOP or whatever takes their place after their losses leave them broke and without a viable path to power to get back to good faith governing is the point. This is a process, and it is hard, and it is going to take a long time. But we are low on realistic options.

Of course it hasnt happened yet. The GOP spent 40 plus years laying the foundation for MAGA, so chances are we cant vote or wish it away overnight. But we can keep winning elections and pushing them out of our way. Anyone who thinks we cant just needs to look at 2020 and the most recent midterms to see that we can.

Beating them at the voting booth over and over again is the only real option. Cementing the levers of power in the favor of the good guys and gals over time is the only option. The rest of the options-civil war, red states and blue states having different federal laws they choose to obey etc. are not going to happen. But we are the majority in this country, so we can outvote them.

Or we can just wave a magic wand and get rid of them all, or change the laws in our favor I guess. Jesus.

ForsakenHermit posted...

Despite what Star Trek says the pen is not that mightier than the sword.

Show them the pencil trick.

havean776 posted...

It's like they think we only support the LGBTQ community because we want their votes.

They don't seem to be able to understand empathy and that some people support them because they think they should have a right to exist.

It's just exposing themselves as seeing them as tools to put away when not 'needed'.

As opposed to, you know, actual people.

DragonClaw01 posted...

When it comes down to economics both parties are corporatists, so are quite willing compromise if it means helping out their benefactors. Even on some of the side stuff it is mostly Kubuki theater, a lot of wind is exchanged, but ultimately nothing meaningful in terms of actual substance. Like illegal immigration for instance. The Republicans will talk the talk, but when it comes down to it, they like the cheap labor that comes along with it, so don't legislate against it too harshly. Dispite the increased drama, I see more similarities than differences amongst the parties now a days.

Guarantee you can't list these many similarities in any meaningful way.

Westernwolf4 posted...

Of course they are still there.

Yes, that's the problem. The fascists are still there, running for office, waiting to be voted in because they aren't in prison.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

If there's anything I've learned from gamefaqs, it's that people with post counts literally 10 times as high as their karma are always good faith posters who are truly interested in spirited debate.

Also, how has RealDill's latest alt not been clapped yet?

This whole topic is blatant trolling. Yeah, I'm sure the longtime Trump supporter and sewer subreddit chud is totally legitimately interested in compromise and working with dems.