Current Events > Racist mfs side with the racist X-Men villain cuz of course they do

(+) Yeah! (+)

UnfairRepresent posted...

Hell say someone's mutant power was that all living things around her died in agony. By your logic since this isn't her choice, it's wrong to safeguard anyone from her? Because that would be akin to hating gay people somehow?

Wrong to safeguard? No.

Wrong to hate the ENTIRE group because she exists? Yes.

That's the entire point. I'm not sure why this is so hard. People are literally supporting the "No Mutants!" comic villains.

Mf "safeguards" mean genocide in the X-Men universe. The humans are always wrong in their efforts to combat the mutants. The humans' entire stance is solely there to make Magneto a sympathetic villain.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Hell say someone's mutant power was that all living things around her died in agony. By your logic since this isn't her choice, it's wrong to safeguard anyone from her? Because that would be akin to hating gay people somehow?

Ok, sure... Why lock up the green guy along with them? Why persecute the one that can blow bubbles, or the one that smells like chocolate?

Safeguards for sure. Hating them all because a dangerous one might exist among them isn't good at all.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Mf "safeguards" mean genocide in the X-Men universe. The humans are always wrong in their efforts to combat the mutants. The humans' entire stance is solely there to make Magneto a sympathetic villain.

This. They literally invented Sentinels to genocide the entire mutant race.

Lock up the bad ones, safeguard against the dangerous ones... But if you support the idea of treating them all differently based on the actions/potential of a few... That's literally racism.

StealThisSheen posted...

Wrong to hate the ENTIRE group because she exists? Yes.

Literally no one has said that. You keep strawmanning this nonsense while arguing with people saying other things and claiming it works as an allegory when it doesn't

UnfairRepresent posted...

Literally no one has said that. You keep strawmanning this nonsense while arguing with people saying other things and claiming it works as an allegory when it doesn't

Multiple people in this topic, such as Aloc, literally have. Hell, you are, by trying to claim it doesn't work as an allegory, specifically because a small amount of dangerous ones exist.

The example posted was people, quite literally, hating ALL mutants. Period. You guys are arguing in support of that, effectively, every time you "Well, listen, it's okay to be afraid of all mutants because..."

UnfairRepresent posted...

Literally no one has said that. You keep strawmanning this nonsense while arguing with people saying other things and claiming it works as an allegory when it doesn't

Even if no one said it, it's is the context of the conversation. That is specifically the issue with mutants.

KogaSteelfang posted...

Even if no one said it, it's is the context of the conversation. That is specifically the issue with mutants.

The context of the conversation was that it doesn't work as an allegory to real world oppressed groups when the group in the fiction has the ability to end all life on the planet within seconds.

These dudes disagreed with that, cowardly avoided literally every question or point raised and then went "Yeah well if you hated people for having green skin that would be a good allegory for hating people for having black skin!"

Well no shit. You're agreeing with the point being raised. That would be an allegory that gels. Star Trek did that in the 60s with the black and white aliens played by the Riddler. But people with green skin can't end all life on Earth within seconds.That's why it doesn't work.

"So you're saying you just hate all green people then!"

it's bizarre. Dudes doing so much mental gymnastics just avoid admitting they were wrong.

I mean the Sheen guy can't even respond without only quoting one sentence from a post, then strawmanning a bizarre horrific sentence out of his ass that no one ever said and going "U R saying this!"

Some message boards ban people for doing that.

StealThisSheen posted...

Multiple people in this topic, such as Aloc, literally have. Hell, you are, by trying to claim it doesn't work as an allegory, specifically because a small amount of dangerous ones exist.

The example posted was people, quite literally, hating ALL mutants. Period. You guys are arguing in support of that, effectively, every time you "Well, listen, it's okay to be afraid of all mutants because..."

If there's an equal chance between someone being born with stretchy nipples and being born with the ability to create nuclear explosions with the snap of a finger, it's kind of hard not to be afraid in a universe that chaotic. That's not even counting the Omega ones that can shatter reality in some cases. Marvel and DC just have a problem where the issues in-universe aren't always believable due to poor writing or the ever-increasing scale of things.

1) Mandatory Power Testing is something that would have to occur, for all mutants. (We do something similar during Pandemics).

2) Any dangerous Mutant Powers would have to be documented, and contingencies arranged.

3) Anyone who had a dangerous Mutant Power, and was not mentally sound would have to be quarantined, just for a safety of the world. Or forced to wear a power inhibitor, while in public.

UnfairRepresent posted...

The context of the conversation was that it doesn't work as an allegory to real world oppressed groups when the group in the fiction has the ability to end all life on the planet within seconds

No, literally the Marvel writers have stated what it represents. Of course it's not going to be exactly 1:1 representation when in that would there are aliens, super people, gods, multidimensional creatures, etc. it's fiction.

Also, "the group" doesn't have the ability to end all life. Individuals within that group do. There is a difference that's being ignored there. Justifying hating and discriminating against an entire race of people because potentially one might be dangerous.

No one is saying not to take precautions, it that the threat isn't real. They're saying that the treatment of all mutants as if they're subhuman and dangerous is unfair. The same way it's unfair to treat minorities and marginalized people like that irl. There are certainly dangerous people among them, but we can't treat them all badly because of that. Look at ISIS, should we be ok discriminating and hating middle eastern people because of ISIS, even when those people have absolutely no connection to them?

UnfairRepresent posted...

The context of the conversation was that it doesn't work as an allegory to real world oppressed groups when the group in the fiction has the ability to end all life on the planet within seconds.

In a universe where literal gods walk the streets of New York every day, the fact that mutants have superpowers doesn't make them that special in their potential for death and destruction.

Red_XIV posted...

In a universe where literal gods walk the streets of New York every day, the fact that mutants have superpowers doesn't make them that special in their potential for death and destruction.

This is the point. It works as an allegory because, as far as the Marvel universe goes, mutants are no more dangerous than other superpowered non-mutants who walk the street every day. And yet mutants, specifically, are prejudiced against. You can't just apply mutants to IRL standards. In their own universe, there are tons of non-mutants who are just as powerful as they are, yet don't get treated with the same prejudice.

Exactly.

Of course they relate to the villians because they are villians themselves

Talking about oppressed mutants is like talking about oppressed millionaires. You could write a story where 2 groups of millionaires have battles causing a lot of collateral damage. That generated hate and fear towards all millionaires, which is really unfair to all those innocent millionaires that end up the targets of violence. Thats an analogy for how discrimination is wrong but its a shallow one that misses a lot of the root issues. Discrimination and prejudice are wrong but theyre more destructive when they target the powerless. Powerful groups are rarely the victims of genocide.

bfslick50 posted...

Talking about oppressed mutants is like talking about oppressed millionaires. You could write a story where 2 groups of millionaires have battles causing a lot of collateral damage. That generated hate and fear towards all millionaires, which is really unfair to all those innocent millionaires that end up the targets of violence. Thats an analogy for how discrimination is wrong but its a shallow one that misses a lot of the root issues. Discrimination and prejudice are wrong but theyre more destructive when they target the powerless. Powerful groups are rarely the victims of genocide.

Did you bother to read any of the previous 265 posts before spouting this shit?

what would you nerds even do with a mutant list. you wouldn't know who any of them are while you are shopping for soy milk in the grocery store.

"oh shit! that's erik lensherr over there! aka magneto" lmao gtfo of here

NoMeLx22x posted...

Did you bother to read any of the previous 265 posts before spouting this shit?

Sure did. You could write a story where the villain is discriminating against innocent millionaires because of the actions of a few. The villain would be wrong but its still a crappy analogy for real world discrimination. Systemic discrimination always comes with a power imbalance.

ironman2009 posted...

what would you nerds even do with a mutant list. you wouldn't know who any of them are while you are shopping for soy milk in the grocery store.

"oh shit! that's erik lensherr over there! aka magneto" lmao gtfo of here

I saw Magneto at a gun store in Texas yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didnt want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for any metal figurines or anything.
He said, Oh, like youre doing now?
I was taken aback, and all I could say was Huh? but he kept cutting me off and going huh? huh? huh? and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen M4s in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like Sir, you need to pay for those first. At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the guns and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually to prevent any magnetical infetterence, and then turned around and winked at me. I dont even think thats a word. After she scanned each gun and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by moving the guns really loudly.

bfslick50 posted...

Sure did. You could write a story where the villain is discriminating against innocent millionaires because of the actions of a few. The villain would be wrong but its still a crappy analogy for real world discrimination. Systemic discrimination always comes with a power imbalance.

The power imbalance is that mutants literally lack the rights of normal people, which means even the weak ones who are no threat to anybody get treated like scum.

I feel like you didn't actually read anything, you just don't want to back down from the point you think you made.

Thor could do more damage to humanity than 99% of mutants, but Thor is pretty much never discriminated against.

"X type of people frighten me, so I support them not having rights" is pretty much the most racist argument one can make. I can't believe how much this silly topic outed people. It's amazing.

bfslick50 posted...

Sure did. You could write a story where the villain is discriminating against innocent millionaires because of the actions of a few. The villain would be wrong but its still a crappy analogy for real world discrimination. Systemic discrimination always comes with a power imbalance.

To use your shitty analogy (which I already used many posts ago that you claimed to have read) it's more like there's one millionaire who does something shitty and you target and discriminate against everyone in the millionaire's race regardless of how much money they have, and most don't even have more than $20 in the bank at any given time.

StealThisSheen posted...

The power imbalance is that mutants literally lack the rights of normal people, which means even the weak ones who are no threat to anybody get treated like scum.

I feel like you didn't actually read anything, you just don't want to back down from the point you think you made.

Thor could do more damage to humanity than 99% of mutants, but Thor is pretty much never discriminated against.

Right, cause Thor cant be discriminated against. You cant bully the guy you cant intimidate. You could write a conservative horror story where evil liberals declared millionaires have less rights but its a shitty analogy for discrimination. The powerful mutants should be able to exploit a capitalist society to make bank in turn giving them influence to ensure their own protection. It doesnt make any fucking sense that mutants would be the victims of discrimination. Those that are actually feared are more likely to become dictators than oppressed. Lynch mobs dont actually fear their target, theyre a hateful group of bigots wanting to cause fear.

bfslick50 posted...

It doesnt make any fucking sense that mutants would be the victims of discrimination.

How doesn't it, when like 95% of mutants are weak as fuck, and have powers like "Squeal when they burp?" Your entire argument is "The powerful mutants COULD be dictators, and thus it's okay to be racist against ALL mutants!"

Get the fuck out of here with that.

StealThisSheen posted...

The powerful mutants COULD be

There are literally stories where powerful mutants wipe out entire universes for shits and giggles dude.

Im sorry.what? The X-Men and mutants have historically been marginalized in the comics as targets regardless of their powers while non-genetical supes (Spider-Man, Iron-Man, Captain America, Hulk, etc.) were celebrated

For what it's worth, bfslick50 is somebody who previously made the argument that as long as Christians believe their hatred is moral based on their own beliefs, it's a reasonable excuse for their actions, so you will never agree with them on this, since their own logic supports things like hating gay people as long as you believe it's "moral"

When the X-Men were originally conceived, they were mostly unassuming. Jean Grey holding the universe would not happen for a very long time. She was known as the weakest X-Men since her debut up until the Phoenix Saga. Magneto was just a guy who could telekinetically move metal. It would be patiently ridiculous to think any of these guys could pose a danger to society. Individual people, sure. A random dude isn't going to win a fight against wolverine. But it was perfectly reasonable to think mutants had a great deal to fear from humans collectively joining together to lynch them.

Decades of power creep happened and they got mixed in with the rest of 616 and things don't really make sense anymore, but that's a different issue.

Well the good thing about this is, it makes it real easy to tag all the racists.

Dudebusters posted...

For what it's worth, bfslick50 is somebody who previously made the argument that as long as Christians believe their hatred is moral based on their own beliefs, it's a reasonable excuse for their actions, so you will never agree with them on this, since their own logic supports things like hating gay people as long as you believe it's "moral"

Well that saves me a lot of time. Appreciate it.

Omega level mutants were a mistake.

bfslick is in another topic supporting the idea of timing and limiting how long a child's shit takes, so... this topic is no surprise

St0rmFury posted...

Omega level mutants were a mistake.

Idk I think theyre interesting as hell in a universe where World War Hulk and Sentry exist.

I love everything X-Men but I don't blame humans for fearing mutants. I mean as other people have said any psychotic mutant could destroy the world if they wanted.

StealThisSheen posted...

Yeah, the confusion is people are talking comics, famfam was talking MCU. Miscommunication, it's all good.

I think it's easy to forget, when deep in comic discussion, that a lot of people's main reference is the MCU itself.

Mine is if talking Marvel. If talking DC then it depends on character. But I've for the most part only been exposed to the main versions of DC heroes in comics. No sun dipped superman or cosmic armor superman hellbat suite batman BS.

The_Sock posted...

I love everything X-Men but I don't blame humans for fearing mutants. I mean as other people have said any psychotic mutant could destroy the world if they wanted.

The same is true of a lot of non-mutant characters with superpowers, yet in-universe they (usually) don't get the hate and fear that mutants do. Even in cases where those other superheroes are (unlike mutants) literally not human. The mutant-haters will be more accepting of a robot or an alien with superhuman powers than they will of a mutant. That's how it still works as an allegory for racism.

Baron_Ox posted...

even if they're correct about the X-Men, the average mutant doesn't have access to those resources.

it would be like, using the experiences of rich people from marginalized groups to make a statement about the marginalized groups in general.

but bigots tend to be dumb dumbs

They do, do that though. They will use rich marginalized groups to put down the whole group.

I'll side with the villain, but only because he's kicking Cyclops' ass. Doing God's work right there

Dudebusters posted...

For what it's worth, bfslick50 is somebody who previously made the argument that as long as Christians believe their hatred is moral based on their own beliefs, it's a reasonable excuse for their actions, so you will never agree with them on this, since their own logic supports things like hating gay people as long as you believe it's "moral"

Sounds like he went from Friends of Humanity to a full blown Purifier.

Red_XIV posted...

The same is true of a lot of non-mutant characters with superpowers, yet in-universe they (usually) don't get the hate and fear that mutants do. Even in cases where those other superheroes are (unlike mutants) literally not human. The mutant-haters will be more accepting of a robot or an alien with superhuman powers than they will of a mutant. That's how it still works as an allegory for racism.

You have a point.

LightHawKnight posted...

Well the good thing about this is, it makes it real easy to tag all the racists.

I wonder if thats why Aloc cant use their original account anymore.

This is just a good villain. Easy to hate.

bfslick50 posted...

Lynch mobs dont actually fear their target, theyre a hateful group of bigots wanting to cause fear.

Their fear of what they represent: a future in which being someone unlike them is normal is 100% the reason they wish to cause fear.

Technically its not racism because mutants are a separate species from Homo sapiens. I guess its speciesism?

Then again, Homo sapiens have committed genocide against pretty much every species on the planet

StealThisSheen posted...

How doesn't it, when like 95% of mutants are weak as fuck, and have powers like "Squeal when they burp?" Your entire argument is "The powerful mutants COULD be dictators, and thus it's okay to be racist against ALL mutants!"

Mutants with powers not helpful in a fight by and large still have a power that can be used somehow to get an advantage in a capitalist society and make bank. The rich are rarely the targets of economic oppression.

Dudebusters posted...

bfslick is in another topic supporting the idea of timing and limiting how long a child's shit takes, so... this topic is no surprise

Im a teacher and kids saying they have to go to bathroom and wondering unsupervised for 20 minutes is a problem that can lead to liability issues. The better solution is a strong hallway presence but apps timing tracking how much instructional time a student missed is cheaper than hiring more people so I understand why schools go with it.

Dudebusters posted...

For what it's worth, bfslick50 is somebody who previously made the argument that as long as Christians believe their hatred is moral based on their own beliefs, it's a reasonable excuse for their actions, so you will never agree with them on this, since their own logic supports things like hating gay people as long as you believe it's "moral"

WTF you talking about? I very clearly argued in that topic that I believe there are objective morals and those bigots are wrong regardless of what they believe is right.

Dont engage with busters, youre not winning that. If they are set on ruining your reputation just accept it.

There are no metahumans as powerful as the top tier mutants.

That's a fact.

Lol we literally see eva bell defeat the entire avengers with ease. She's not even an omega.

bfslick50 posted...

Mutants with powers not helpful in a fight by and large still have a power that can be used somehow to get an advantage in a capitalist society and make bank. The rich are rarely the targets of economic oppression.

The episode in OP starts with FoH attacking the Morlocks. Mutants outcasts who literally live in the sewers because they can't pass as humans. And the human supremacists still came down to kill them.

absolutebuffoon posted...

Their fear of what they represent: a future in which being someone unlike them is normal is 100% the reason they wish to cause fear.

Fascists hate them who are not us and so on the surface hating them mutants who are not us works as an analogy. But that ignores the inconsistencies of fascism. Fascists frequently have malleable beliefs to incorporate anyone that can help them take power. Mutants are a group they would want to include. Any nation whose ruling power rejects mutants is not going to be able to militarily or economically compete with the one that embraces them so in that sense the analogy doesnt ring true.