Current Events > Where do you stand regarding moral codes in Ghost of Tsushima?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jins uncle says When you fight your enemies and end their life, you must do it head on and look them in the eye when you take their life. Only cowards strike from the shadows.

Jin has to adapt to regain control of the island from the Mongols, and breaks his uncles samurai code throughout the game.

What do you think?

I actually found it a pretty annoying fake drama because the samurai were literally never like that. They had no problem at all using assassination and covert tactics.

So basically, lord sakura was going to let thr Mongols gain control over Japan because of a bullshit version of bushido

pinky0926 posted...

I actually found it a pretty annoying fake drama because the samurai were literally never like that. They had no problem at all using assassination and covert tactics.

Im 100% with you. Found Jins uncle annoying as hell and was glad to kill him.

It's just too dumb considering the world they live in

I think it's fine, in an ideal setting, where both sides show honor/respect to each other.

the Mongols, in the game, used every underhanded tactic against Tsushima Island, and should have expected no better.

also, iirc, samurais generally didn't treat non-samurai and lords that well, so idk.

Jin's uncle sucked. Or rather, that moral code sucked.

Would have been better if that choice actually ever mattered at all but the story drops it like a stone immediately.

pinky0926 posted...

because of a bullshit version of bushido

bullshido

The bushido code is trite and tedious. Duty and honor are handicaps, which is a point made painfully clear during the tutorial. The main theme of the plot is Jin, the noble everyman trope, learning to overcome the stupid and arbitrary self-imposed limitations that led to his peoples' ruin.

Jin's uncle would rather lose the war and get himself, his soldiers, and everyone else on the island (who he is responsible for protecting) killed than fight dirty. Which is a moronic way to live.

Jin's uncle represents an impossible, fantasy version of honor and their code. As mentioned above, it's exaggerated to the extremes and real samurai clans had zero issue doing literally anything Jin could think of in-game.

If his actions harmed the invaders, won back territory, minimized samurai and clan deaths and kept their regional stability (see: dgaf about the villages) he'd have been a mystical figure of importance to them. They used their codes and laws to be, at best, neutral and at worst much like a crime syndicate of today. Honor and all that bent to excuse their actions. Jin's uncle should have been bouncing up and down in his fort in joy.

Kaldrenthebold posted...

Would have been better if that choice actually ever mattered at all but the story drops it like a stone immediately.

Yeah, that was such a wasted premise. You can choose to fight "honorably" for the entire game, but it doesn't change anything about the story. A morality system with branching story outcomes would have been cool

Jin's uncle was stupid, and the game doesn't even give you a choice so you're getting shamed for just playing by the game's rules.

Realism and historical accuracy issue aside, when conducting war with clear victory conditions, you should fight to win. Otherwise you are prolonging the conflict and risking more of your own population.

Reminder that the suicide cult version of bushido didn't exist until the early 20th century and was retconned into Japanese history in order to legitimize the rise of fascist imperialist Japan.

https://www.tofugu.com/japan/bushido/

LonelyStoner posted...

Jins uncle says When you fight your enemies and end their life, you must do it head on and look them in the eye when you take their life. Only cowards strike from the shadows.

Jin has to adapt to regain control of the island from the Mongols, and breaks his uncles samurai code throughout the game.

What do you think?

Well, you stick to your principles, die as a result with your honor, and never liberate the island. (realistic outcome, not necessarily in game outcome)
Or...
You can ignore your principles, save the island, and be considered honorless.

The thing is, principles aren't real, they are a construct made by man to feel better about life and the choices therein.

Jin isn't doing anyone any favors by fighting with honor.

Jins uncle was a fucking idiot

Meanwhile during the Bakumatsu the Hitoriki were just like "WEEE" with the out in the daylight assassinations.

MarcoRubio posted...

Jins uncle was a fucking idiot

Its why I didnt feel any guilt about killing him.

I *heavy spoilers* let the uncle live since it made sense for someone like him to be in charge, while Japan sent more support, and Jin living in shadows, helping in his own way

it made sense to me, at least, from a political perspective.

I think letting the uncle live is also kind of a "fuck you" since he didn't want that. So I was more than happy to say "fuck you and your morals."

When you're fighting an enemy that has no honor or morals, you're never going to beat them if you adhere to the morals and honor that's been beaten into your head for years.

The Samurai and Jin were making very little progress, Jin eventually opened his eyes to this and then decided to fight like his enemy. And it's only then substantial wins started to occur as well as saving the people.

I own the game but I have yet to play it. How good is the story?

CobraGT posted...

I own the game but I have yet to play it. How good is the story?

Pretty awesome. So is the gameplay.

Strider102 posted...

When you're fighting an enemy that has no honor or morals, you're never going to beat them if you adhere to the morals and honor that's been beaten into your head for years.

The samurai had no honor or morals, otherwise there would have been no warring states period.

CobraGT posted...

I own the game but I have yet to play it. How good is the story?

Despite my earlier criticism of the premise the story is actually told very well in a very cinematic way and the characters are compelling, and is probably the most "authentic" samurai game of all time, in the sense that it literally feels like an Akira Kurosawa movie at times.

pinky0926 posted...

Despite my earlier criticism of the premise the story is actually told very well in a very cinematic way and the characters are compelling, and is probably the most "authentic" samurai game of all time, in the sense that it literally feels like an Akira Kurosawa movie at times.

I will agree the story is presented well but I'd say it's also mostly forgettable. Like I remember the overall summarized version if the story but struggle to remember specific story beats.

I played the game as close to the honor code as I could. Unless I HAD to be sneaky to sa e someone, I marched up to every camp and challenged them to face me. No assassinations.

I loved that they made how you play impact the weather throughout the game. I had a nice, sunny world.

Senta posted...

I played the game as close to the honor code as I could. Unless I HAD to be sneaky to sa e someone, I marched up to every camp and challenged them to face me. No assassinations.

I loved that they made how you play impact the weather throughout the game. I had a nice, sunny world.

Didn't know that last bit.

I played middle of the road. Basically whatever mood I was in is what I did. I leaned samurai but always went ninja if there was people to save.

As far as samurai though I preferred the ronin look. Ya know a robe and a straw hat.

I haven't played that game but it would be cool if there was 2 storylines that you go down, depending on what code you use

Zikten posted...

I haven't played that game but it would be cool if there was 2 storylines that you go down, depending on what code you use

Think it only changes some dialogue before the final boss. Don't quote me though it's been awhile.

Jin did nothing wrong

I also can't fuckin wait to replay this game in May when it drops on PC

Sufferedphoenix posted...

I will agree the story is presented well but I'd say it's also mostly forgettable. Like I remember the overall summarized version if the story but struggle to remember specific story beats.

I actually preferred some of the main side quest stories. Lady Masako and Ishikawa were good characters.

This is what sets it apart from something like Horizon Zero Dawn IMO. Ostensibly a similar setup, but I literally can't remember a single character from that game.

sfcalimari posted...

The samurai had no honor or morals, otherwise there would have been no warring states period.

Theres also the fact that honor means different things in different cultures. When you live in the upper tiers of a feudal caste system its very easy to do something most modern cultures would consider dishonorable like massacring peasants for looking at you funny because peasants arent people. As far as theyre concerned, honor just means obeying and respecting your lord.

pinky0926 posted...

I actually preferred some of the main side quest stories. Lady Masako and Ishikawa were good characters.

This is what sets it apart from something like Horizon Zero Dawn IMO. Ostensibly a similar setup, but I literally can't remember a single character from that game.

I don't really remember the side quests either

Kinda wanna play it again now though cause I know I had fun playing it

Strider102 posted...

When you're fighting an enemy that has no honor or morals, you're never going to beat them if you adhere to the morals and honor that's been beaten into your head for years.

At the same time, some things are considered war crimes not just for moral reasons but also pragmatic ones. Like feigning surrender to ambush the enemy when they try to capture you. Thats a war crime because it encourages the enemy to simply shoot anyone trying to surrender because they arent falling for the same trick twice. In fact I believe this very thing happened in WW2.