Current Events > Ultima may be the most forgotten important video game series in history

(+) Yeah! (+)

I was watching a video on the history of RPGs and learned a lot about the Ultima series. Previously, I didn't really know much about these game besides how Spoony from the Spoony Expirement loved these games and was severely disappointed by how the series ended.

It made me realize how foundational these games are to the RPG series (especially, 4,5,6, and 7). It seems like it should be recognized as a foundational series just as Super Mario Bros. is to platformers or Doom is to FPS games.

4 seems like one of the most unique and ambitious games I've ever heard of, especially for a game from 1985. Its an open world RPG that doesn't have some great evil to defeat. Instead the goal is to become a paragon of virtue through the actions you take in the game. Most RPGs with moral choices seem very shallow to how they work in this game.

Its kind of shocking how you rarely hear about this series in any "greatest of all time lists".

I think the biggest issue is how the series ended on a really bad note and there hasn't been a good game in the series since Ultima Online from 1997. Ultima 8 and 9 seemed to have really tainted the reputation of the series. I think if the Internet was big in 1999 Ultima 9 may have been a bigger scandal than Cyberpunk 2077's launch.

The tragic end to the series and no new games seems to have accelerated how these games have been forgotten to time.

Lots of series are like that
Everyone sites Resident Evil 1 as the granddaddy of the survival horror franchise. Very few bring up Alone in the Dark, and even less bring up Sweet Home

Ultima Underworld and Catcomb 3-D were there at the beginning of time.

Probably, yeah. It's basically the videogame RPG grand-daddy and it's basically unknown now. And nearly every game genre now has RPG mechanics in some form, even sports games, so its influence goes far beyond its own genre.

It's like how everyone knows it as a "Groundhog Day Loop" when it should really be a "Beautiful Dreamer Loop" or "Urusei Yatsura Loop".

Turbam posted...

Lots of series are like that
Everyone sites Resident Evil 1 as the granddaddy of the survival horror franchise. Very few bring up Alone in the Dark, and even less bring up Sweet Home

Sweet Home and Clock Tower are so tragically unknown despite creating the entire horror game genre.

@YellowSUV

Was this history of RPG video you watch from the NeverKnowsBest YouTube channel?

If so, I literally watched that last night/this morning before work

Its almost like the series suffered a great betrayal...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeaGJRV-whU

Anyway...if the series gets as much as a overhaul as Balder's Gate did for 3 it could be a hit again but only that level of effort would be enough.

EA killed everything, EA sucked before it sucked.

Scorsese2002 posted...

@YellowSUV

Was this history of RPG video you watch from the NeverKnowsBest YouTube channel?

If so, I literally watched that last night/this morning before work

Yeah, I've been watching it on and off over the past few days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o3i10OuMFQ

I remember hearing a lot of hate for Ultima 8 and didn't really understand it. Like, I didn't think it was that bad. It wasn't great or anything but I had fun.

I would later find out I never actually played Ultima 8. I only played Pre-patched Ultima 8 Gold Edition which fixed a bunch of bugs, restored all the cut content so the game actually has an ending, and had a bunch of other QoL fixes.

I think the game would benefit a lot from a remake with modern sensibilities.

I feel like maybe you're just talking to the wrong people, most people I talk to who actually care about gaming are aware of ultima and its influence (although not that many have actually played any of them)

At least more people remember it than Wizardry >_>

FL81 posted...

At least more people remember it than Wizardry >_>

Wizardry is apparently still alive in Japan. It's had a bunch of Japan only adaptations over the years.

Zikten posted...

Wizardry is apparently still alive in Japan. It's had a bunch of Japan only adaptations over the years.

There have also been a good number of Japanese video games continuing the series unofficially (a lot of them have even been translated and released on Steam)

What's a paladin?

Ultima IX destroyed its legacy tbqh.

Name
Job
Bye

Sigh one of the earlier casualties of EA and its horrible management

I dunno, how many of you remember Monster Bash? or The Incredible Machine? how about Super Solvers?

YellowSUV posted...

Yeah, I've been watching it on and off over the past few days.

Small GameFAQs world huh?

That channel looks like it has a decent amount of long form gaming docs

Had that as a recommended video while watching GameRanx.

Ivany2008 posted...

I dunno, how many of you remember Monster Bash? or The Incredible Machine? how about Super Solvers?

TIM was great.

PurpleOutsider posted...

What's a paladin?

I'm not entirely sure.

Foppe posted...

TIM was great.

The devs made a sequel

https://store.steampowered.com/app/241240/Contraption_Maker/

Tyranthraxus posted...

The devs made a sequel

https://store.steampowered.com/app/241240/Contraption_Maker/

The original series got a Ghost n Goblins spinoff.
https://youtu.be/QrpcDNuxuJY?si=zukIaG9HiX2NlnPt

kirbymuncher posted...

I feel like maybe you're just talking to the wrong people, most people I talk to who actually care about gaming are aware of ultima and its influence (although not that many have actually played any of them)

Yeah never played it never seen videos or pics of the game. However when I saw this topic I said to myself isn't that the original rpg video game? Don't even know where I learned this.

Would any of the early ones still hold up today?

Sufferedphoenix posted...

Yeah never played it never seen videos or pics of the game. However when I saw this topic I said to myself isn't that the original rpg video game? Don't even know where I learned this.

Would any of the early ones still hold up today?

Ultima 7 holds up the best IMO. The graphics are primitive but it's a surprisingly big and detailed open world. If you can get it working it's a lot of fun still.

As you go back, it gets more and more primitive. I absolutely love Ultima 4 and recommend it if you have the patience but it is VERY obtuse and the UI can be a huge pain. The beginning is also extremely frustrating at first.

Ultima 5 and 6 gradually improve on the open world.

Really this series built the open world RPG as we know it. If you go from 1 to 7 you can basically see them building it up until it's basically got all the things we associate with open world RPGs like Fallout and Elder Scrolls. And with many if not most of those mechanics, Ultima was the first one to do them.

Zikten posted...

Wizardry is apparently still alive in Japan. It's had a bunch of Japan only adaptations over the years.

I would love a collection on switch. I have played a good bit of the SNes/SFC remakes

FL81 posted...

At least more people remember it than Wizardry >_>

If you want to talk about a series nobody remembers now it's Might and Magic. Just when you think it can come back it screws up somehow.

action52 posted...

Ultima 7 holds up the best IMO. The graphics are primitive but it's a surprisingly big and detailed open world. If you can get it working it's a lot of fun still.

As you go back, it gets more and more primitive. I absolutely love Ultima 4 and recommend it if you have the patience but it is VERY obtuse and the UI can be a huge pain. The beginning is also extremely frustrating at first.

Ultima 5 and 6 gradually improve on the open world.

Really this series built the open world RPG as we know it. If you go from 1 to 7 you can basically see them building it up until it's basically got all the things we associate with open world RPGs like Fallout and Elder Scrolls. And with many if not most of those mechanics, Ultima was the first one to do them.

Then you have Ultima Underworld, which was a pioneer for 1st person rpg games and laid the ground work for System Shock, Thief and Deus Ex

Ultima if it came back it would be like Elder Scrolls. Thats the reason. ES fills the hole left by The Ultima. EA feels there's no need someone else has taken over that niche

Ivany2008 posted...

I dunno, how many of you remember Monster Bash? or The Incredible Machine? how about Super Solvers?

Who doesn't remember super solvers? I remember playing Midnight rescue in school. They also had the gizmos and gadgets one where you made a car to race the villain.

Ha ha

action52 posted...

Ultima 7 holds up the best IMO. The graphics are primitive but it's a surprisingly big and detailed open world. If you can get it working it's a lot of fun still.

As you go back, it gets more and more primitive. I absolutely love Ultima 4 and recommend it if you have the patience but it is VERY obtuse and the UI can be a huge pain. The beginning is also extremely frustrating at first.

Ultima 5 and 6 gradually improve on the open world.

Really this series built the open world RPG as we know it. If you go from 1 to 7 you can basically see them building it up until it's basically got all the things we associate with open world RPGs like Fallout and Elder Scrolls. And with many if not most of those mechanics, Ultima was the first one to do them.

What system is 7 on and 4. I'll look into those 2

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

I'm not entirely sure.

Your knowledge of the land shall be great.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

What system is 7 on and 4. I'll look into those 2

Non pc? 4 is NES, 7 is SNES. Now it's best play all the console ones in order. 3 is part of the first trilogy. 4 and 5(nes for both). The events in 5 happen right after 4. 6 and 7 are also best played back to back. 6 and 7 are snes.

1, 2, 8, 9, 10 you can find on PC

vycebrand2 posted...

Non pc? 4 is NES, 7 is SNES. Now it's best play all the console ones in order. 3 is part of the first trilogy. 4 and 5(nes for both). The events in 5 happen right after 4. 6 and 7 are also best played back to back. 6 and 7 are nes.

1, 2, 8, 9, 10 you can find on PC

They long games? Like let's compare it length wise to final fantasy 1 shorter or longer?

All I'm gonna say is I got this thing I bought off the internet. Just needed to know what system to look for it under

vycebrand2 posted...

Non pc? 4 is NES, 7 is SNES. Now it's best play all the console ones in order. 3 is part of the first trilogy. 4 and 5(nes for both). The events in 5 happen right after 4. 6 and 7 are also best played back to back. 6 and 7 are snes.

1, 2, 8, 9, 10 you can find on PC

Master System got a port of 4 as well.

Everyone should be forced to play Ultima IV - The Quest of the Avatar to compleation. It is a foundational game that could honestly improve society. Maybe give people tax credits for playing through or something.

https://youtu.be/BPAbXOoK_hc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_IV:_Quest_of_the_Avatar

FL81 posted...

At least more people remember it than Wizardry >_>

Creeping Coins Breathe! No effect.
Trivia: Wizardry was written in Pascal, which made it relatively easy to port to other platforms.

vycebrand2 posted...

Non pc? 4 is NES, 7 is SNES. Now it's best play all the console ones in order. 3 is part of the first trilogy. 4 and 5(nes for both). The events in 5 happen right after 4. 6 and 7 are also best played back to back. 6 and 7 are snes.

1, 2, 8, 9, 10 you can find on PC

I do recommend playing them all on PC if you can. Maybe 3 on NES but other than that the PC version is a lot better.

The "true" version of 1-5 is the Apple II. That's how old they are lol.

There is also a pre-Ultima game called Akalabeth which is freeware. It's not particularly good. In fact it's extremely basic. But it's interesting as a sort of look at how RPGs first began. This game is actually from before Apple II, believe it or not. The combat and vector maze dungeons are copying other games that already existed, but I believe this is the first game to have a sort of "overworld" that you can walk around in and enter dungeons and other points of interest. And anyway it's free so you might as well download it and give it a try. If nothing else it will give you a look at what the first RPGs were like.

Ultima 1 and 2 are PC only.

Ultima 3 has NES and PC versions. I've beaten both. The NES version looks better and has music, so it's better in that regard. It's also more intuitive if you're used to NES RPGs and not old console ones. But the PC version is smoother, quicker, and more streamlined if you're used to keyboard hot keys, which you should get used to if you want to play Ultima 1-5. So this game will help you get accustomed to the way you play the other games. Overall I'd recommend the NES version but the PC version has its merits.

Ultima 4, the Sega and NES versions have better graphics and sound but the dialogue is dumbed down a lot. And one of the most charming things about this game is its dialogue, where you meet all these people who are talking about the virtues and what they mean. You lose a lot of this in the console versions. Also on PC there are programs you can use to improve the graphics, add music and better sound, and greatly improve the UI so it's a much better experience overall.

Ultima 5, the NES version is basically unplayable. It looks and plays like garbage. That game was just too much for the system to handle. I tried it out once and it was an absolutely miserable experience, avoid at all costs.

Ultima 6, the SNES version seemed okay but at this point PCs had VGA graphics and sound cards so it's no longer much of an upgrade in that respect. The PC version has a much smoother hybrid keyboard / mouse interface and I think the world loses a lot of its complexity.

Ultima 7, the SNES version is playable but it's garbage compared to the PC version. Stay away from that one too.

There also is an Ultima 7 part 2 which is a whole new adventure and game world using the same engine. It's really good too but only on PC I think.

Ultima 8 and 9 are also on PC.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

They long games? Like let's compare it length wise to final fantasy 1 shorter or longer?

Ultima 1 is shorter. Ultima 2 may be longer but not in a good way. Ultima 3 is short if you know what you're doing, but probably a similar length for most people their first time through.

Ultima 4 is longer than Final Fantasy 1. 5 is a lot longer. Ultima 6 is even longer, and has a really big world that you can interact with.

Ultima 7 is similar to FF4 if you just do the main quest... maybe shorter because you never need to grind anything. But the game world is massive and filled with things to explore. You could easily spend 50 hours on it, or even 100 if you're really thorough.

action52 posted...

I do recommend playing them all on PC if you can. Maybe 3 on NES but other than that the PC version is a lot better.

The "true" version of 1-5 is the Apple II. That's how old they are lol.

There is also a pre-Ultima game called Akalabeth which is freeware. It's not particularly good. In fact it's extremely basic. But it's interesting as a sort of look at how RPGs first began. This game is actually from before Apple II, believe it or not. The combat and vector maze dungeons are copying other games that already existed, but I believe this is the first game to have a sort of "overworld" that you can walk around in and enter dungeons and other points of interest. And anyway it's free so you might as well download it and give it a try. If nothing else it will give you a look at what the first RPGs were like.

Ultima 1 and 2 are PC only.

Ultima 3 has NES and PC versions. I've beaten both. The NES version looks better and has music, so it's better in that regard. It's also more intuitive if you're used to NES RPGs and not old console ones. But the PC version is smoother, quicker, and more streamlined if you're used to keyboard hot keys, which you should get used to if you want to play Ultima 1-5. So this game will help you get accustomed to the way you play the other games. Overall I'd recommend the NES version but the PC version has its merits.

Ultima 4, the Sega and NES versions have better graphics and sound but the dialogue is dumbed down a lot. And one of the most charming things about this game is its dialogue, where you meet all these people who are talking about the virtues and what they mean. You lose a lot of this in the console versions. Also on PC there are programs you can use to improve the graphics, add music and better sound, and greatly improve the UI so it's a much better experience overall.

Ultima 5, the NES version is basically unplayable. It looks and plays like garbage. That game was just too much for the system to handle. I tried it out once and it was an absolutely miserable experience, avoid at all costs.

Ultima 6, the SNES version seemed okay but at this point PCs had VGA graphics and sound cards so it's no longer much of an upgrade in that respect. The PC version has a much smoother hybrid keyboard / mouse interface and I think the world loses a lot of its complexity.

Ultima 7, the SNES version is playable but it's garbage compared to the PC version. Stay away from that one too.

There also is an Ultima 7 part 2 which is a whole new adventure and game world using the same engine. It's really good too but only on PC I think.

Ultima 8 and 9 are also on PC.

Worlds of Ultima: The Savage Empire is also well worth playing. Uses the Ultima VI engine, and has some fairly nifty parts to it

action52 posted...

I do recommend playing them all on PC if you can. Maybe 3 on NES but other than that the PC version is a lot better.

The "true" version of 1-5 is the Apple II. That's how old they are lol.

There is also a pre-Ultima game called Akalabeth which is freeware. It's not particularly good. In fact it's extremely basic. But it's interesting as a sort of look at how RPGs first began. This game is actually from before Apple II, believe it or not. The combat and vector maze dungeons are copying other games that already existed, but I believe this is the first game to have a sort of "overworld" that you can walk around in and enter dungeons and other points of interest. And anyway it's free so you might as well download it and give it a try. If nothing else it will give you a look at what the first RPGs were like.

Ultima 1 and 2 are PC only.

Ultima 3 has NES and PC versions. I've beaten both. The NES version looks better and has music, so it's better in that regard. It's also more intuitive if you're used to NES RPGs and not old console ones. But the PC version is smoother, quicker, and more streamlined if you're used to keyboard hot keys, which you should get used to if you want to play Ultima 1-5. So this game will help you get accustomed to the way you play the other games. Overall I'd recommend the NES version but the PC version has its merits.

Ultima 4, the Sega and NES versions have better graphics and sound but the dialogue is dumbed down a lot. And one of the most charming things about this game is its dialogue, where you meet all these people who are talking about the virtues and what they mean. You lose a lot of this in the console versions. Also on PC there are programs you can use to improve the graphics, add music and better sound, and greatly improve the UI so it's a much better experience overall.

Ultima 5, the NES version is basically unplayable. It looks and plays like garbage. That game was just too much for the system to handle. I tried it out once and it was an absolutely miserable experience, avoid at all costs.

Ultima 6, the SNES version seemed okay but at this point PCs had VGA graphics and sound cards so it's no longer much of an upgrade in that respect. The PC version has a much smoother hybrid keyboard / mouse interface and I think the world loses a lot of its complexity.

Ultima 7, the SNES version is playable but it's garbage compared to the PC version. Stay away from that one too.

There also is an Ultima 7 part 2 which is a whole new adventure and game world using the same engine. It's really good too but only on PC I think.

Ultima 8 and 9 are also on PC.

Thanks maybe my device will have the pc versions. No keyboard though stuck with the ps2 knock off controller it came with

Rotterdammerung posted...

Worlds of Ultima: The Savage Empire is also well worth playing. Uses the Ultima VI engine, and has some fairly nifty parts to it

I focused on the main series rather than side projects like that and Ultima Underworld, but they are all very good and worth playing. Especially Ultima Underworld 2. That game is absolutely fantastic.

every now and then i'll get one of the tunes from whatever ultima game i played for the snes stuck in my head

Sufferedphoenix posted...

Thanks maybe my device will have the pc versions. No keyboard though stuck with the ps2 knock off controller it came with

Keyboard is highly recommended for Ultima up to 5. Maybe required--it might not be possible to play the PC versions without a keyboard.

6 is best with both mouse and keyboard, okay with just keyboard, and not good with mouse only.

Mouse is highly recommended for 7 and 8.

Controllers might work okay with Ultima 6-8 but mouse basically adds a lot of QoL that makes the games much better.

9 is the only one where it doesn't matter whether you use a controller or keyboard + mouse.

PurpleOutsider posted...

Your knowledge of the land shall be great.

The Codex of Ultimate Wisdom?

Hm. Just wondered if Ultima weapon and I think k there is a sword in final fantasy called Ultima I'm going to assume that's a reference

If I had to take a stab in the dark I'd say it's because these things were all being done by tabletop rpgs beforehand. Things like Ultima were just transferring the concept of levelling, roleplaying, party based combat, etc from those. It didn't revolutionize thlse things in any way it just brought them to a new medium.

That's just a guess though and I could be way off base.

ArchNemo posted...

That's just a guess though and I could be way off base.

Yes you are. Maybe I'll make a long post that gets into it.

So apparently Richard Garriott (The creator of Ultima) managed to to hold on to the rights of the Lord British character even after he sold the series to EA. That doesn't seem like that big of a problem if a new Ultima game is made (I know Lord British is a huge part of the games, but they can be done with him).

That said, it makes me wonder if Garriott also owns any other aspects of the series which would make a new Ultima game unlikely unless Garriott and EA are able to hash out an agreement. (Of course, the most likely reason for Ultima being a dead series is EA being inept at managing their IPs).

Turbam posted...

Lots of series are like that
Everyone sites Resident Evil 1 as the granddaddy of the survival horror franchise. Very few bring up Alone in the Dark, and even less bring up Sweet Home

people bring up Sweet Home because it was literally proto Resident Evil. like the same guys who made that game were involved in RE weren't they?