Poll of the Day > Manga/anime what draws people to it over American content?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ive always wondered that

Maybe the hypersexualized characters?

They are comics, a popular story telling medium, that provides stories that are not the usual dc/marvel superhero mess. They usually have stories with a beginning, middle, and end instead of going on for 80 years and getting retconned repeatedly to keep it going. They are relatively cheap and accessible and don't require a specialty store to buy them.

I quit getting marvel comics monthly floppies years ago but I still read them via the marvel unlimited app I read more than I ever did back then for just $9.99 per month

Shoutout to today's sponsor, the Marvel Unlimited app.

slacker03150 posted...

They are comics, a popular story telling medium, that provides stories that are not the usual dc/marvel superhero mess. They usually have stories with a beginning, middle, and end instead of going on for 80 years and getting retconned repeatedly to keep it going. They are relatively cheap and accessible and don't require a specialty store to buy them.

Theres more to American comics than just marvel/dc if what they do bothers you then you can read some indie comics from image Also price wise are we comparing the manga volumes to single issues? because that would be silly

NightMareBunny posted...

Theres more to American comics than just marvel/dc if what they do bothers you then you can read some indie comics from image Also price wise are we comparing the manga volumes to single issues? because that would be silly

Oh I do. That doesn't stop me from being annoyed at the monopoly they have. Superhero comics are the majority of the market rather than just a genre in the medium. Luckily Diamond isn't as strong as they used to be.

Price wise, I'm more comparing it to other reading options than other comics specifically. But 5-15 for a manga volume compared to 2-5 per issue or 15-35 per collected volume, yes manga is cheaper. They use cheaper paper and dont bother with color. Its hard for an american comic to win a price war against them. But also paperback books. What the hell happened there? They used to be cheap and now everything is like $20 minimum. Magazines are expensive now as well.

Anime just appeals to me more, although I like plenty of american cartoons too.
Never really been a big comic reader, so I don't read a lot of manga or american comic books. Between the two, I prefer manga because the big name comics are super heroes, and I'm not really a big fan of comics as a medium for those.
Most of my comic reading has been in the news paper comics when I was a kid, and some web comics I've been following for a long time.

Superhero isnt a genre like horror or comedy because ghost rider is a radically different book from amazing spider-man. The same can be said at dc. Comparing Constantine to Batman

NightMareBunny posted...

Superhero isnt a genre like horror or comedy because ghost rider is a radically different book from amazing spider-man. The same can be said at dc. Comparing Constantine to Batman

And a comedy can be about a stone aged caveman meeting death or a billionaire trying to create a city on Mars. A horror could be about a werewolf terrorizing a midevil town or a rapist kidnapping women and keeping them in his basement.

point is a superhero book can be many different things its not a genre but something to place genres upon

NightMareBunny posted...

point is a superhero book can be many different things its not a genre but something to place genres upon

Its still a genre. All genres have sub-genres that incorporate elements from other genres.

Superheroes are more of a theme than a genre. The same can be said of magical girls. Or politics and fat ugly bastards.

Hmm... If I had to take a gander at what draws people into anime and manga more than western comics these days, it's a combination of factors.

You have a consistency of illustration or animation quality, unlike some (even good) arcs in western comics. Eastern story telling also tends to be more character-focused, so there is a better chance of caring about the characters long enough to get into a story; emphasis on "better chance."

As someone had stated already, the manga stories--even longer ones that may or may not drag on too long for the sake of dragging on, like One Piece is doing or InuYasha had done--tend to hold to a defined continuity with little or no need for reboots every few years, so you can pick up a lengthy series at different points in time and know there is a good chance you are following the same characters and world. There are exceptions, of course, such as there being however many iterations of Tenchi (I'll always prefer either Muyo or Universe).

It's multiple things coming to a wealth of experience. Even as the manga and anime industry push for heavily milled content, or allows for insanely degenerate filth, worthwhile series have existed and continue to come out. Recent iterations of Gundam do not ruin nor improve the iterations of the past.

last reboot dc did was 2011 and to my knowledge marvel isnt really known for reboots instead they work with a sliding timescale so to say the big two do reboots often wouldnt be the truth Also American comics have books that operate like manga they just dont have marketing money from Disney/WBD to make you aware of them

I'd argue those sliding timescales are more akin to soft reboots, unlike DC's hard reboots. And it's not just the soft or hard reboots, either. There's the myriad of retcons that could make Theseus cry.

its part of the package. Independent comics dont have that but again they arent financed by mister money bags so people online will keep acting like they dont exist I think its fair not to scold marvel/dc for not being more like manga when its been a toy box for decades. This guy gets a crack at spider-man and once the series concludes they put all the toys back in the box so the next writer can play with them You dont get that with indies or manga because its a different system

NightMareBunny posted...

its part of the package. Independent comics dont have that but again they arent financed by mister money bags so people online will keep acting like they dont exist I think its fair not to scold marvel/dc for not being more like manga when its been a toy box for decades. This guy gets a crack at spider-man and once the series concludes they put all the toys back in the box so the next writer can play with them You dont get that with indies or manga because its a different system

Inaccurate. =)

Western, independent comics don't have the money for marketing, but also don't have to worry as much about executive meddling . . . unless it's that same independent writer meddling with their own material. I used to love Questionable Content and Gunnerkrigg Court before they started dragging on longer than necessary, implementing random ideas and soft or hard-retconning those same ideas out along the way. Marvel and DC choose which projects receive advertisement or fanfare, but their model has been collapsing under its own weight since the turn of the millennium (I'm sure PO will come in with a 5-page essay saying longer than that).

As for your toy box argument, some writers don't even get to finish playing or putting toys away before other writer come in. Messes are made, writers are let go or have to share, and sometimes the toys are falling apart or smeared with dubious-at-best substances before they're put in better hands. No, I don't think your toy box comparison is accurate.

Just because some writers get screwed doesnt mean it isnt a toy box its literally a treasure trove of characters Editorial passes around and also love or hate them if they dont do well they take the comic book industry down with them because smaller publishers dont have the market share they do. They lack the funds/resources to go beyond being the little guy

NightMareBunny posted...

Ive always wondered that

Yep, you wondered it in August when you last made this topic.

^I knew I saw this topic by nmb before

Ill give you animation though because it doesnt really seem like good cartoons get much of a chance in the streaming age

I will say that as much as people ignore them, the French know how to do comics right (Bande dessine). But yea, American content has just fallen out of favor for me. But the difference is I was never a fan of Manga outside of very few exceptions.

Dikitain posted...

I will say that as much as people ignore them, the French know how to do comics right (Bande dessine). But yea, American content has just fallen out of favor for me. But the difference is I was never a fan of Manga outside of very few exceptions.

I wish there was a way to get easy access to BDs. I don't speak or read French or Dutch and they do not have the translator community manga has. I've bought a few and made do with Google lens, but it's just not the same.

Dikitain posted...

I will say that as much as people ignore them, the French know how to do comics right (Bande dessine). But yea, American content has just fallen out of favor for me. But the difference is I was never a fan of Manga outside of very few exceptions.

This reminds me how I have a steampunk comic I want to make when I have the time, and more confidence again with my illustrations. It's set in Lyon, France, around 1890. I'm unsure how it might compare to French comics, however. It revolves around a Polish woman self-trained to be an assassin who is, at first, hellbent on vengeance against several nobles including a family, but as she carries on her mission and lives the life of a modest actress, she ends up falling for a man in said noble family. Lots of political intrigue ensues whilst she realizes not everything was as she initially thought, leading to uneasy alliances and deadly conflict.

Maybe once some of my other writing projects are done, including my Touhou fanfic that's going to take about a decade to finish, I'll put some work into this steampunk France story. The beginning, ending, and parts of the middle were planned long ago.

They're much more blunt with their themes so it's easier to digest.

Viz media promotes digital services far better than marvel/dc and thats something I feel has to change because comic book shops arent everywhere

JOExHIGASHI posted...

They're much more blunt with their themes so it's easier to digest.

Eh i wouldnt say that

The thing with marvel/dc is theres no definitive spot to start reading Ive realized unlike manga so anyone asking where to begin will get various different answers thats just how it is. Some people started reading spidey this way others read him that way.

NightMareBunny posted...

The thing with marvel/dc is theres no definitive spot to start reading Ive realized unlike manga so anyone asking where to begin will get various different answers thats just how it is. Some people started reading spidey this way others read him that way.

Eh... I will disagree in DC's case, pre-Infinite Crisis. There have been periods in the 60s through early 90s when--especially with Batman--there were definitive starting points for iterations of characters, based on what era it was. At least one of those Batman eras even had a definitive ending where people are celebrating the end of a major thing that had happened, and Batman walks off into the shadows.

Likewise, there are major storylines in DC and Marvel alike with definitive starting points, some of them a middle, and some of those an ending. Many of these storylines used to be where the respective franchises shone most.

But yes, you are otherwise correct that anime, manga, and manhua tend to be based on those defined starting points from which you can pick up. The Touhou fanfic I've been writing even establishes multiple beginnings based on whether you want the full story (the dialogue-less prologue with Doremy) or to follow specific characters and their major arcs; each major arc carrying a shared title for the chapter. The eastern side of this medium tends to make it easier to know what you're getting into before you get into it, unlike western side where it feels like you need to research what era or iteration you're looking for, or which major story like "No Man's Land."

That excludes indie comics which just operate however they want but marvel/dc are corporate toy boxes where different teams get to handle different characters and eventually another team takes over Lets also note that no matter how much research you do there will always be so much you dont know about Marvel/dc

NightMareBunny posted...

That excludes indie comics which just operate however they want

Aside from my mention of the fanfic I'm writing, was there any need to mention indie comics in relation to your post I was just now referring to, or even my response itself? I find this particular response of yours to be like person A making mention of Dominos and Pizza Hut, and only those pizza chains, versus the market for dessert pies, person B replying about those two pizza companies versus dessert pies, and then person A retorts with "That excludes mom and pop pizzerias!" You're not wrong, but your post I was referring to didn't include the indie comics either, hence the focus.

NightMareBunny posted...

marvel/dc are corporate toy boxes where different teams get to handle different characters and eventually another team takes over

Always for a variety of reasons. We could go ad neuseum or ad fatigatum on each and every case, such as sales, people leaving for a myriad of reasons, et cetera, but I believe this had already been addressed in a prior post however many days (or weeks) ago in brief. Since you wish to go back to the toy box argument, let me reiterate that the toys are not always put away properly, if at all or even cleanly, and others are made to pick up and play with those same tools regardless of the blood or snot all over them, by order of the folks in control of said toy boxes. And going back to my previous response, on the subject of retcons or reboots, the folks in charge will replace those toys when they see fit and then force the next round of writers and artists to work with the new toys (and only those new toys).

NightMareBunny posted...

Lets also note that no matter how much research you do there will always be so much you dont know about Marvel/dc

Let's add to this note that one should never give up on research or understanding just because there is so much of it, or because it conflicts with their views. That said, there are such things to consider such as a scope and scale of a given conversation.

The running gag on this forum is that PO could write a multi-page thesis on anything related to "geek culture," if provoked, and, in the early days of him earning that reputation, people around here went nuts over how far and beyond PO went on writing about how wrong you are. It could be the equivalent of something being off by one pixel in PS2 era graphics, and he would let you have so many paragraphs over the minor difference. Is it ever necessary? Maybe some of the time.

Here? Meeting generalizations with 5-10 minutes' worth of Internet searching is plenty. I don't think we need an exhaustive, detailed report on the history of Marvel and DC, nor the Manga industry or eastern storytelling, to get the gist of where differences truly lie versus where some random person on the Internet thinks they might lie based on goodness-knows-what.

Well in honor of Toriyama, let's add that Goku is never given anything, he has to earn it. He is inspiring because he shows with hard work you can pretty much become a god.

Contrast to superman who is just awesome cause he was born with it. Literally born with privilege.

He's was the opening to most of the west to anime.

Because manga is more about showing than telling.

Because most of western animation is designed for kids/families, and the ones that aren't are nearly all parodical comedies (The Simpsons set the tone for this, and South Park, Family Guy, and the like followed). There are exceptions, of course, but they are rare.

By contrast, in anime you can quite easily find works designed for pretty much any demographic and genre. You are much less pigeonholed into the "kids show or Simpsons clone" box.

darkknight109 posted...

Because most of western animation is designed for kids/families, and the ones that aren't are nearly all parodical comedies (The Simpsons set the tone for this, and South Park, Family Guy, and the like followed). There are exceptions, of course, but they are rare.

By contrast, in anime you can quite easily find works designed for pretty much any demographic and genre. You are much less pigeonholed into the "kids show or Simpsons clone" box.

too many Simpsons clones.

for American animation the problem is a lot of big business guys overlook it and see it as being just for kids how many times do we have a segment at the Oscars where someone makes a joke about cartoons being something kids enjoy while adults must tolerate it

NightMareBunny posted...

for American animation the problem is a lot of big business guys overlook it and see it as being just for kids how many times do we have a segment at the Oscars where someone makes a joke about cartoons being something kids enjoy while adults must tolerate it

It's a chicken or the egg problem. The general public also sees it as just for kids. So businesses treat it as exclusively for kids. Businesses won't change until the public opinion changes but the thought that it is only for kids is continually reinforced by not having animation for adults.

Most adult animation is just crude immature sitcoms which makes it seem like the adult stuff has to be more childish than the kids stuff

That stigma wont change until the big companies start reinforcing it and telling people its true

NightMareBunny posted...

That stigma wont change until the big companies start reinforcing it and telling people its true

That's easier said than done, though, because it's not just a matter of *telling* people there's animation for adults out there, it's a matter of making it and getting people to watch it. It's hard to get projects greenlit at studios (especially these days, where revenue is down significantly from where it was even just 10-20 years ago) if you're pitching an unproven idea for what looks to them like a niche market.

Western animation used to be truly all-ages, but we can largely thank Hanna-Barbera studios for changing it into something aimed for kids (since they learned pretty quickly that kids had the greatest tolerance for cheaply-made garbage that they could churn out quickly); Japan never suffered the development of the "animation age ghetto" and their view of animation as being something for everyone persisted into the modern era. I think that's ultimately why adult-oriented anime has enjoyed significant success there, while non-comedic adult-oriented western cartoons are both rare and generally not successful.

It feels like an awkward transition to go from watching anime to then watching American cartoons and noticing how many Are just wacky sitcoms

I think the biggest problem is people take what marvel/dc do and act like there just how American comics work when that only applies to those two. Image comics is completely creator owned its not an IP house like the big two.

Fox tried another series that isnt just a Simpsons clone and thats Grimsburg